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[Forum] Security warning: Elbox' usb.device contains RDB trashing codeANN.lu
Posted on 10-Nov-2002 22:36 GMT by Qwe (Edited on 2002-11-12 20:14:12 GMT by Christian Kemp)87 comments
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Elbox' usb.device contains code that can wipe a user's harddisk RDB rendering the system non bootable and losing the partitions. It is triggered when someone tries to make the device work with standard NEC PCI USB cards. Parts of this item were removed because of objections by Elbox received per email this evening. As an owner of a Mediator, I always wondered why I would have to buy a Spider USB card from Elbox since the Mediator's main point was to be able to use standard PCI hardware..
Since the card doesn't look any different than a standard NEC 720100 card, I checked what is the difference and it looks like Elbox just sells NEC cards with a different PCI subvendor ID. So, I decided to try to modify the usb.device to have it work with my NEC card. First of all I was surpsised to find that their driver is encrypted. Why did they bother to do that? I was shocked to find out the reason. If anyone tries to modify their driver to work with a standard NEC USB card, it will trash the SYS:'s RDB!!

Not believing me? The following is a disassembly of their RDB trashing code from usb.device version 1.7 (9-10-2002) available in the Spider CD: Code removed.

then go "Offline" and "Online" again -> poof, your RDB will be overwritten (don't forget to make a backup of your RDB before and saving that to a floppy, or use a useless HD for the test).

So basically (putting aside their questionable way of forcing the user to buy their very slightly modified hardware again instead of standard PCI stuff), usb.device has a VERY DANGEROUS RDB trashing code which could also be triggered if the device is damaged for example.

Security warning: Elbox' usb.device contains RDB trashing code : Comment 1 of 87ANN.lu
Posted by I'll Knacker it on 10-Nov-2002 21:43 GMT
Oo Thats nice !!
Security warning: Elbox' usb.device contains RDB trashing code : Comment 2 of 87ANN.lu
Posted by [JC] on 10-Nov-2002 22:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (I'll Knacker it):
This is illegal in many countries including the UK to my knowlege, as it counts as viral activity. Elbox could be thereby be liable to severe legal prosecution including compensation for loss of data.
Security warning: Elbox' usb.device contains RDB trashing code : Comment 3 of 87ANN.lu
Posted by cOrpse on 10-Nov-2002 22:02 GMT
Same sort of thing as the UAE virus then ... Elbox has an excuse tho : Its to stop cheap arses downloading they're driving from one of those* BBS' and using a cheap card.
* The elite ANSI colour filled kind ;)
Security warning: Elbox' usb.device contains RDB trashing code : Comment 4 of 87ANN.lu
Posted by TheArrogantSarny on 10-Nov-2002 22:18 GMT
Quite clearly breaking the law... at least in the UK.
See: Computer Misuse Act 1990 (http://www.legislation.hmso.gov.uk/acts/acts1990/Ukpga_19900018_en_1.htm)
Of particular interest: 3. Unauthorized modification of computer material
Security warning: Elbox' usb.device contains RDB trashing code : Comment 5 of 87ANN.lu
Posted by JoannaK on 10-Nov-2002 22:38 GMT
Firstly: I assume this original Post is Real.. I don't have Amiga here so I can't check this by disassembling driver myself. If it's fake, then ignore the rest of this message.
---
This situation makes me wonder how soon Elbox is going to ask that code to be removed from this forum... They did ask people to remove images of their USB card from websites cause it was too obviously 100%-identical to widely available (and much cheaper) PC-usb2 card.
Of course official reason was that picture had their copyright and thus it was illegal to use it on web site without their permission... Ahem, I think that code is theirs too so they do have valid reason for asking it to to be removed. Unless they make a smart move and deny all responsibility to this RDB-trasher and claim that it has been some kind of Virii attached to their distribution without their knowledge. At that way they could avoid being sued for damages.
At one side I can understand their wish on getting $$$ for making such software for Amiga. But trashing others Hard disks (only RDB but still) is going to leave bad taste among purchasers of this system. It's kinda bad to realize someone puts that kind of Bomb into driver code on purpose even though it may be 100% proof of misfiring. Unfortunately most code has bugs...
Security warning: Elbox' usb.device contains RDB trashing code : Comment 6 of 87ANN.lu
Posted by cOrpse on 10-Nov-2002 22:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (TheArrogantSarny):
Dunno , If Elbox put " Attempts to use non offical hardware may result in dataloss " in their EULA they may get away with it...
I've got a great story about some people breaking the law then complaning to the police when we rectified the problem ;)
Security warning: Elbox' usb.device contains RDB trashing code : Comment 7 of 87ANN.lu
Posted by TheArrogantSarny on 10-Nov-2002 22:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (cOrpse):
I think they could only make something like that stick if they could prove they didn't wilfully damage the data. However, the act of adding the code does indeed indicate an intention to wilfully damage data.
Security warning: Elbox' usb.device contains RDB trashing code : Comment 8 of 87ANN.lu
Posted by JoannaK on 10-Nov-2002 22:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (cOrpse):
More I thin of this more I hope it's fake posting.. But..
IMHO (IANAL) user-aproved Eula can't give product selling company any right break criminal laws of some country as those laws are made and enforced by govermental authorities. But I have not followed Eula-releated lawsuits, so I can't tell how much they actually do matter if things goes to court.
Security warning: Elbox' usb.device contains RDB trashing code : Comment 9 of 87ANN.lu
Posted by TheArrogantSarny on 10-Nov-2002 22:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (TheArrogantSarny):
Of course, I'm not to up on assembly. But I sure hope those comments where added by the poster... otherwise it's an obvious fake. Since when did any assembler include the comments in the code? ;-)
Security warning: Elbox' usb.device contains RDB trashing code : Comment 10 of 87ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone on 11-Nov-2002 00:24 GMT
That's simply disgusting. It simply blows my mind how far someone will crawl through the slime to make a buck.
Security warning: Elbox' usb.device contains RDB trashing code : Comment 11 of 87ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio on 11-Nov-2002 00:37 GMT
Qwe, are you hacking the Poseidon stack too? Or Elbox usb.device only?
Security warning: Elbox' usb.device contains RDB trashing code : Comment 12 of 87ANN.lu
Posted by MC on 11-Nov-2002 01:10 GMT
> If anyone tries to modify their driver to work with a standard NEC USB card, it will trash the SYS:'s RDB!!
Modifying of the Elbox usb driver is illegal!
See the disclaimer enclosed with the Elbox usb.device:
usb.device
This software is protected by copyright laws. No part of this software or may be copied, disseminated or processed in any way without the prior written consent of Elbox Computer. Violations of these conditions will lead to legal prosecution.
All rights reserved.
Copyright 2002 Elbox Computer
Security warning: Elbox' usb.device contains RDB trashing code : Comment 13 of 87ANN.lu
Posted by Some Farker on 11-Nov-2002 01:12 GMT
Wow! That's *so cool*. So now they're trying to break your goddamn hardware for trying to use someone else's card.
And people think Microsoft is the only disreputable computer company. Aww! Isn't that *cute*? Elbox is trying to punish you for buying *inexpensive* Amiga hardware!
Choke on it, you bastards.
Security warning: Elbox' usb.device contains RDB trashing code : Comment 14 of 87ANN.lu
Posted by rez on 11-Nov-2002 01:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (MC):
To protect from an offense, you can't commit a crime.
Here, in France, you can't do your justice by yourself : You are not authorized to break ownership in anyway as your are not the Justice (think police) itself.
Breaking software or hardware from others, remote or not, for good or bad reasons is illegal. Period.
Hope it's a fake. Or Elbox can, and will, be prosecuted here.
Security warning: Elbox' usb.device contains RDB trashing code : Comment 15 of 87ANN.lu
Posted by Andy on 11-Nov-2002 02:51 GMT
1. Qwe *stole* the copyrighted Elbox usb driver.
2. Qwe *cracked* it.
3. *Qwe' driver* trashed the RDB of his disk.
The subject of this tread should be changed to:
Security warning: usb.device cracked by Qwe contains RDB trashing code
Security warning: Elbox' usb.device contains RDB trashing code : Comment 16 of 87ANN.lu
Posted by T_Bone on 11-Nov-2002 03:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (Andy):
> Security warning: usb.device cracked by Qwe contains RDB trashing code
that remains to be seen, let's see if the original driver conains that code.
How utterly vile.
Security warning: Elbox' usb.device contains RDB trashing code : Comment 17 of 87ANN.lu
Posted by redrumloa on 11-Nov-2002 03:49 GMT
Whoa nelly!! What if the Spider card fails one day? Will it appear as an invalid card and thrash the RGD? Hmm i think I'd have to go with a Thycalyne or Highway out of paranoia.
Can someone else verify this?
Security warning: Elbox' usb.device contains RDB trashing code : Comment 18 of 87ANN.lu
Posted by redrumloa on 11-Nov-2002 03:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (T_Bone):
>How utterly vile.
I agree. Personally if/when I have a mediator, I wouldnt bother trying to use another USB card, the Spider isnt exactly excessively overpriced. But this has got to take the cake. Putting code in to block a standard PCI board would be one thing, but thrashing of one HD?
Security warning: Elbox' usb.device contains RDB trashing code : Comment 19 of 87ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 11-Nov-2002 05:09 GMT
If true , this sucks. It would be much better if it just refused to function.
Security warning: Elbox' usb.device contains RDB trashing code : Comment 20 of 87ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 11-Nov-2002 05:29 GMT
The USB device driver is labled/decribed as specifically for the Spider USB card, right? or is it labled/described as a generic usb driver?
Security warning: Elbox' usb.device contains RDB trashing code : Comment 21 of 87ANN.lu
Posted by John Q Public on 11-Nov-2002 05:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (redrumloa):
When Elbox shafted the P96 team, there was a bit of an outcry, but they hid behind an obscure Euro law and got away with it.
When photos of the SharkPPC were published on the web (from a show; Cologne, I believe), some brave soul posted how ironic it is that aside from a few less capacitors, it looks identical to the Sonnett G3/G4 accelerator for the Mac. But that was let go and never officically addressed.
Now this juicy tidbit from a self-proclaimed Mediator owner, whom we all imagine is considered a licensed user of their software by virtue of the fact he owns one.
Tell me, are any of you (besides the cattle) REALLY that surprised? As time passes it's becoming more and more clear that Elbox are merely innovative at reselling existing tech, and the only reason the Mediator series of cards are considered "innovative" is because someone hasn't found the original cards they're cloning yet.
Here... let me get a mop before that sarcasm eats a hole in the floor...
Give it a few weeks. History has already foretold how this situation will turn out: An excuse, some heated discussion on forums, and it'll all be swept under the carpet and forgotten. Well, not COMPLETELY forgotten, Elbox. Some of us ARE watching you and not forgetting.
... and a little note to the useless few who'll no doubt bash the anonymous nature of this post - do us all a favor and play in traffic. The individual posting this is acting unofficially as representative for the unspoken majority of clear thinking Amigans, who frequent various forums, share the same observations, yet are too disgusted by the current state of Amiga forums to put on the HazMat suit and slosh through the radioactive waste. So why am I here? Because enough is enough, Elbox. If this post is accurate then Elbox can (WILL) be held liable for any data loss, and in some countries, for even coding what Qwe's alleging they encrypted in their driver to begin with.
Come now, Elbox. Let's hear it. The Public is waiting...
Security warning: Elbox' usb.device contains RDB trashing code : Comment 22 of 87ANN.lu
Posted by DaveW on 11-Nov-2002 06:58 GMT
If this story is verified then bleat about how evil it is.
Security warning: Elbox' usb.device contains RDB trashing code : Comment 23 of 87ANN.lu
Posted by Jacek Piszczek on 11-Nov-2002 07:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (Andy):
>1. Qwe *stole* the copyrighted Elbox usb driver.
>2. Qwe *cracked* it.
>3. *Qwe' driver* trashed the RDB of his disk.
Don't be silly, this looks exactly like Elbox's way of making drivers. I once
tried to hack ata3.driver (for personal use only) to skip the "defective PPC"
test and I also found out that the code is encrypted :( Good that it didn't
contain RDB trashing code... ;)
Security warning: Elbox' usb.device contains RDB trashing code : Comment 24 of 87ANN.lu
Posted by fhein on 11-Nov-2002 08:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (redrumloa):
Well, it's written that the code will trash your RDB if you try to HACK THE DRIVER to work with another card, not if you merely try booting with one in the machine. Haven't got the hardware/software myself to try it out, but that's what he wrote ;)
Security warning: Elbox' usb.device contains RDB trashing code : Comment 25 of 87ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 11-Nov-2002 08:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 24 (fhein):
Its kind of a grey zone. In the non-hacked version the offending code would never be jumped to. And is simply containing such code breaking the law? Lots of system tools could thrash, delete or format hard drives if "misused".
Security warning: Elbox' usb.device contains RDB trashing code : Comment 26 of 87ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Alemagna on 11-Nov-2002 08:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (Anonymous):
In many European countries, what the Elbox USB driver is doing is simply illegal, by the same principle, that renders illegal the adoption of elrectrified fences to protect some places by people who don't have to enter them, or the same principle that doesn't let you shoot, no even in non vital places, a thief who entered your home.
Security warning: Elbox' usb.device contains RDB trashing code : Comment 27 of 87ANN.lu
Posted by Rafo on 11-Nov-2002 09:16 GMT
correct me if I'm wrong but... What happens if you have an antivirus program ?
Isn't protecting RDB" part of its job ?
Security warning: Elbox' usb.device contains RDB trashing code : Comment 28 of 87ANN.lu
Posted by Peter Gordon on 11-Nov-2002 09:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 27 (Rafo):
I don't think any Amiga virus programs forbid the writing of the RDB block (and even if they tried to, it wouldn't be to hard for some asshole to circumvent)
Security warning: Elbox' usb.device contains RDB trashing code : Comment 29 of 87ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 11-Nov-2002 09:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 26 (Fabio Alemagna):
Not the Elbox driver is doing it, the modified/hacked one is doing it. (Assuming this isnt a hoax in itself.)
Security warning: Elbox' usb.device contains RDB trashing code : Comment 30 of 87ANN.lu
Posted by Peter Gordon on 11-Nov-2002 09:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (Anonymous):
If that code posted up there is in the official usb device from elbox, then that is very irresponsible. Sure, its not designed to be executed during the normal operation of the software with a Spider USB, but that doesn't mean it absolutely 100% cannot happen. What if, when updating the driver, the programmer accidentally changes something that causes the code to be executed when it shouldn't? Its a very dangerous game to be playing.
Of course, nobody has any proof either way if this code is there, but if it is, then that is just so irresponsible and unprofessional.
Security warning: Elbox' usb.device contains RDB trashing code : Comment 31 of 87ANN.lu
Posted by Gabry on 11-Nov-2002 09:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (Anonymous):
Well, that doesn't surprise me that much, I still remember the mess Elbox already did with P96 team for licensing...
I understand that Elbox want to survive in a death market, but forcing to use the cards it resells on a "standard" PCI expansion is not tolerable...
Not to mention the "protection code" in their device... no comment, I wonder why I still spend part of my time working (for free) for this platform.
Security warning: Elbox' usb.device contains RDB trashing code : Comment 32 of 87ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 11-Nov-2002 10:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 31 (Gabry):
> I understand that Elbox want to survive in a death market, but forcing to use
> the cards it resells on a "standard" PCI expansion is not tolerable...
"Not Tolerable"?! Elbox can sell what they like! If they want to create drivers that only work with their cards, thats their perogative. "Not tolerable", jeez... if you want standard drivers, write your own ones. The Mediator SDK is free you know, you just have to sign one form...
But what really IS intolerable is putting trojan code inside the driver. *IF* the elbox driver *DOES* contain RDB trashing code, then that is just irresponsible and wrong.
Security warning: Elbox' usb.device contains RDB trashing code : Comment 33 of 87ANN.lu
Posted by Mirror on 11-Nov-2002 11:28 GMT
Sound like to me that someone has got bored with posting hoax's, flaming Amiga so this week has decided We'll post a hoax and flame Elbox instead.
Troll off you little Children. Call your selves part of the communinity.
Security warning: Elbox' usb.device contains RDB trashing code : Comment 34 of 87ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 11-Nov-2002 11:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 33 (Mirror):
didn't anyone notice something strange here?
he ran the device in a pegasos? when did Elbox release a mediator for the pegasos?
(did he actually think it would work?) asshole
Security warning: Elbox' usb.device contains RDB trashing code : Comment 35 of 87ANN.lu
Posted by Peter Gordon on 11-Nov-2002 11:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 34 (Anonymous):
Quote: "As an owner of a Mediator"
Uhh.. where does it say Pegasos?
Security warning: Elbox' usb.device contains RDB trashing code : Comment 36 of 87ANN.lu
Posted by Lasse Bodilsen on 11-Nov-2002 11:51 GMT
3 words: It's a Hoax.
2 points:
1. noway will disassembled assembler kode look like this.
2. the added comments in the code, have no bearing in relation to the code.
I'll try and explain this later, but i havent got the time right now.
Later
Security warning: Elbox' usb.device contains RDB trashing code : Comment 37 of 87ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 11-Nov-2002 12:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 34 (Anonymous):
As an owner of a Mediator, I always wondered why I would have to buy a Spider USB card from Elbox since the Mediator's main point was to be able to use standard PCI hardware..
--
This doesn't look like a Pegasos to me... Troll...
And this is NOT a hoax...
Security warning: Elbox' usb.device contains RDB trashing code : Comment 38 of 87ANN.lu
Posted by Peter Gordon on 11-Nov-2002 12:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 36 (Lasse Bodilsen):
> 1. noway will disassembled assembler kode look like this.
Not straight out of the disassembler, no. But when I reverse engineer something, I go through it and give things meaningful names and comments. Its part of the process of understanding it.
> 2. the added comments in the code, have no bearing in relation to the code.
I only had a cursory glance over it, and I don't have any docs here (i'm at work, all my Amiga developer material is at home), but it certainly appears to be code that trashes an RDB.
There is not enough evidence either way to say it is, or isn't a hoax.
Security warning: Elbox' usb.device contains RDB trashing code : Comment 39 of 87ANN.lu
Posted by Chris on 11-Nov-2002 12:03 GMT
> UBYTE *rFindResident("usb.device");
> r[0xd4]0xff;
> then go "Offline" and "Online" again -> poof, your RDB will be overwritten
> (don't forget to make a backup of your RDB before and saving that to a
> floppy, or use a useless HD for the test).
Try it. I dare you. It's an easy way to find out!
Security warning: Elbox' usb.device contains RDB trashing code : Comment 40 of 87ANN.lu
Posted by Jacek Piszczek on 11-Nov-2002 12:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 36 (Lasse Bodilsen):
You're clueless about resourcing then. Please download InGO and play with it for a while.
It's SO EASY to produce code like this out of ANY application.
Security warning: Elbox' usb.device contains RDB trashing code : Comment 41 of 87ANN.lu
Posted by Chris on 11-Nov-2002 12:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (Anonymous):
> Its kind of a grey zone. In the non-hacked version the offending code would never be jumped to.
And Windows never crashes. All software works perfectly all the time.
Wake up and smell your bootblock smoking!
Security warning: Elbox' usb.device contains RDB trashing code : Comment 42 of 87ANN.lu
Posted by Chris on 11-Nov-2002 12:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 40 (Jacek Piszczek):
Did you try it yet? If not, why noy? Don't appear here like a moron when you didn't even simply try to reproduce the problem, it's easy, just try it like he says. Don't come back untill you have (and have restored your RDB)
Security warning: Elbox' usb.device contains RDB trashing code : Comment 43 of 87ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 11-Nov-2002 12:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (Anonymous):
Bullshit. In the AmigaOS environment, any application could start trashing memory at random addresses. If it pokes the resident driver, it would trigger
it....
Security warning: Elbox' usb.device contains RDB trashing code : Comment 44 of 87ANN.lu
Posted by Lasse Bodilsen on 11-Nov-2002 12:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 40 (Jacek Piszczek):
Granted, it's been a long time since i last did any 68k assembler work or any disassembly.
but i still say it's a hoax, even if the code really did trash the RDB, where is the proof that i came out of the usb.device driver from elbox?.
Can Anyone confirm it either way? no?. then stop all the accusations against elbox, untill some one with a little credibility confirms it.
ps. i'll be happy to admit i'm wrong :-), but i see no reason at this point.
LB
Security warning: Elbox' usb.device contains RDB trashing code : Comment 45 of 87ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 11-Nov-2002 12:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 44 (Lasse Bodilsen):
Very easy...
Online,
UBYTE *shitFindResident("usb.device");
shit[0xd3]0xef;
Offline and back online.
This should do...
WITH THE ORIGINAL DEVICE...
I hope that the lost RBDs in many FastATA owners was REALLY an HW bug of the
first revisions and not something like that...
Security warning: Elbox' usb.device contains RDB trashing code : Comment 46 of 87ANN.lu
Posted by Chris on 11-Nov-2002 12:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 45 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
> I hope that the lost RBDs in many FastATA owners was REALLY
> an HW bug of the first revisions and not something like that...
Muahahahahaaa!
Security warning: Elbox' usb.device contains RDB trashing code : Comment 47 of 87ANN.lu
Posted by Jacek Piszczek on 11-Nov-2002 12:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 42 (Chris):
Please send me an Amiga with a Mediator and Spider USB and I will try it.
(I ask for an Amiga because I surely won't mess inside my A1200 to connect such
hw to it).
Security warning: Elbox' usb.device contains RDB trashing code : Comment 48 of 87ANN.lu
Posted by [JC] on 11-Nov-2002 14:18 GMT
I think that what should happen here is that some experienced programmers who are willing to work for free in the Amiga community should write thier own USB stack (it can't be that difficult especially with Linux and the BSD's implementing them in open source), and making sure they work with standart OHCI compliant USB cards which can be got from anywhere for most likely half the price of the Elbox one (which is just a rebadged "PC" one with the PCI Vendor ID changed)
Then, the Amiga community can tell Elbox to fuck off and show that they will not stand for this sort of shit.
Security warning: Elbox' usb.device contains RDB trashing code : Comment 49 of 87ANN.lu
Posted by Lasse Bodilsen on 11-Nov-2002 14:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 45 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
And this proves what?, have you tried it?, i don't have a mediator nor a Spider USB card or the driver.
i'll repeat what i just said, Have or can anyone confirm this?.
at least in my contry (denmark), its "inocent until proven guilty".
LB
Security warning: Elbox' usb.device contains RDB trashing code : Comment 50 of 87ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 11-Nov-2002 14:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 48 ([JC]):
No need to write a new stack as the Spider doesn't come with on in the 1st place ....
(you still have to buy Prometheus). "Just" write a new Prometheus-compatible low-level-driver.
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