[Forum] "party on:-)" (R.S.) | ANN.lu |
Posted on 02-Oct-2001 19:56 GMT by Martin Heine | 233 comments View flat View list |
(Before someone again complains that I'm sharing my opinion "everywhere": I just decided to paste here what I wrote in comp.sys.amiga.misc because of Christian's call for articles.)
The article contains quick and dirty translations of comments made yesterday and today by Mr. Haage and Ralph Schmidt at amiga-news.de, since I thought non-german-speakers might be interested in this, too.
Newsgroup-article #1:
To try to compensate at least a little bit the advantages of those
Amigans who speak German (and therefore often get easier to rumours,
facts, etc., because of the importance of german companies and
individuals for the Amiga-market), I thought it might be useful to
translate a few statements made at amiga-news.de today.
While Eyetech and H&P accuse each other for the A1/AOS4-delays (one
says the hardware is missing, one says the OS4 is missing), Mr. Haage made (among others) the following comments (no warranty for the translation!):
[Mr. Haage (H) comments some rumours (R)]
H: "The interest in OS4.0 we have NEVER lost. But we've never been and are not convinced of the profitability of the project if the concepts won't be changed."
R: "They (H&P) are just the executing organ, all decisions are made by Amiga Inc."
H: "Correct. [...]"
R: "Amiga Inc. displays regarding Communication with their partners
"certain" deficits."
H: "Deficits is nicely said. But it's correct!"
R: "Failing to come / insufficient payments from Amiga Inc."
H: "Before payments could be made, contracts have to be made. That
far, however, we aren't yet. Regarding which I clearly want to
emphasize that WE do not delay."
[...]
H: "To be able to be partners to an agreement, one needs contracts -
and that is not Amiga Inc.'s strong point."
[Another comment from Mr. Haage]
R: "Is the date told by Alan Redhouse [Eyetech] for the completion of OS4.0 ("november, but probably not the 1st") possible in your
opinion?"
H: "Only if it would be right now possible to work towards that date. But the conditions for this don't exist. Maybe a wonder happens, but I don't expect it."
No wonder that those like me, who've been suspicious regarding AI in
favour of MorphOS/Pegasos for some time already, unfortunately feel
confirmed more and more. Also no wonder that Ralph Schmidt is enjoying this soap opera from AI, H&P and Eyetech, his first comment has been the one quoted as the subject: "party on:-)".
So, after translating Mr. Haage's point of view, I'll also think I
should quote from one of Ralph's comments, too. He (RS) answers to a
comment by Mr. Haage (JH):
JH: "In an exclusive x86 AmigaOS version we aren't interested."
RS: "No? :-) Do you think we don't get what you proposed internally
already in August? :-)"
[...]
RS: "As you've been also told already by a person from Amiga Inc. some monthes ago... you have no future as Amiga OS vendor."
My personal guess is that the main problem seems to be Amiga Inc.,
i.e. especially their lack of money. So after them already given up on their plans regarding DE being their future OS many monthes ago, it seems their plan to survive as a content vendor for PDAs seems to be not that successful, too (Alan Redhouse, too, does confirm in his statement that AI still has the already known financial problems). If companies like H&P do speak that way about AI already in the public as Mr. Haage did today at amiga-news.de (I just translated a little bit of it), I exprect the worst regarding AI's future.
Therefore it really seems the Amiga-market's future might be just
those two ones Ralph outlined: an emulation-based x86 one by H&P and
the PPC one covered by MorphOS.
-----8<--------
Newsgroup-article #2:
Some "second helping" - the "party" goes on:
(Again no warranty for the 'quick and dirty' translation.)
Michael Garlich (Titan Computer) in reply to Mr. Haage:
"You should restrain yourself on your statements against Mr. Schmidt!
Only you are to blame for the current situation - if you had actually shown your much propagated readiness for cooperation last year in september, it would not have been come that far. Despite all adverse things Mr. Schmidt contrary to you had been willing to cooperate under leadership of Amiga Inc. !!!"
And another reply by Ralph to Mr. Haage:
"[...] You operate on other levels which the normal user doesn't
notice. (dealers, influence on Amiga Inc., threats with licences,
internal mailing lists, influence on a certain person and a certain
company)"
-----8<--------
Newsgroup-article #3:
I think balance requires me to continue the translation at least one
more time, i.e. especially regarding the repeated offer below by Mr.
Haage to try to come to a cooperation. Of course everyone draws his
own conclusions, H&P-fans may say "didn't I tell you, just Ralph is
the bad guy" (although there's on the other hand the, today repeated, version by for example Mr. Garlich who said that Mr. Haage would have prevented exactly this last year), while the other side may say he's just lying or trying another trick. My personal conclusion is that Mr. Haage may just get cold feet because of the apparently very bad financial situation at AI and its consequences for another Amiga-PPC-future besides MorphOS.
Well, here again some quick and dirty translations from the very same thread of comments at amiga-news.de as before; again, no warranty.
1. Mr. Haage:
He suggests to accept an invitation made partly humorously by
amiga-news.de's Petra Struck to Mr. Haage and Ralph to meet at her
home for a dinner and try to come to an agreement.
(But Ralph did already say in a comment before he'd never again
cooperate with Mr. Haage, because of the well-known history and because H&P would just have nothing to offer that would be of interest for the bplan/Morphos-crew. (Although I think Ralph underestimates the value of "the name", but on the other hand I don't know how much, if any, influence H&P has regarding this.))
2. Ralph:
(It has been said before that by saying H&P (and Hyperion) would have nothing to offer the MorphOS-team could be interested in, they would cut out "StormC4, Arteffect, Genesis, Olsen's TCP/IP Stack, OS 3.9 licences" and Hyperion's products.)
" 1) We have with the PPC-MorphOS-GCC our own development system,
[...].
2) I wouldn't know what's that unique with ArtEffect. [...]
3) Genesis is a GUI surface and the TCP/IP stack belongs to Tomi
Ollila, which we do also have as a PPC version.
4) Olsen's TCP/IP stack is controlled by Olsen and nobody else.
And we do have a *very* good relationship with Olaf.
5) Amiga users do already own 3.1, 3.5 or 3.9 and it's left up to
them of they continue to use it until a completely new WB
exists.
6) MorphOS as AmigaOS 4.x was massively opposed by Hyperion since
november 2000 and in summer it was said that they'd never would
be porting Warp3d to MorphOS, when Amiga Inc. suggested them
this. This decision is left up to them for what they want to
develop something... The consequence is just that they don't
play any role in our plans. Therefore we plan an own 3D
solution. Warp3d is only that long important as new games
support it.
[...]
9) As I said already... H&P are free to offer their applications
for MorphOS also. *We* won't hinder anyone from developing
applications for MorphOS. SDKs from us always will be free.
10) With Papyrus we'll have a real office-package with
word-processor."
3. Mr. Haage:
Replying to the comment by Mr. Garlich (see earlier in this thread),
Mr. Haage says he wouldn't know about what Mr. Garlich would be
speaking.
4. Ralph:
(He was asked if Nova Design or Paul Nolan would have announced
support for MorphOS already.)
"We have also spoken with Kermit Woodal several times. Since he's also closely related with Merlancia, there are certainly possibilities. :-)
Paul Nolan does have a key and a development system since last year... [...]"
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"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 138 of 233 | ANN.lu |
Posted by the man in the shadows on 05-Oct-2001 21:25 GMT | In reply to Comment 122 (David Scheibler): I was wrong about you David, you don't know how to quote. Withholding specific information until later in a fruitless attempt to stay on top of the conversation is rather droll and uninspiring. Nevertheless it matters not.
> 1. Yes, Haage said that they have no contracts with Amiga Inc.
And how does this differ from the OS3.9 release? From what I remember, there's no difference at all. So your point is? Though I would like to see an official announcement on it before I would consider it a threat to the existance of OS4.
> 2. How are beta testers testing some OS4 software?
> The answer was given by H&P's AmigaOS XL FAQ:
> (http://amigaxl.haage-partner.de/faqs-main-e.html)
> 30. What about AmigaOS 4.0
> So they are just testing the 68k parts of OS4 (for example Olsen even doesn't
> have a PPC card and he develops FFS2 and Roadstar TCP for OS4).
That's very possible, but why not use the existing PPC boards to test for any problems on WarpOS. Granted it's a different kernel and all but I'm sure with a few changes to the source a recalibration can be made for the PPC native programs to work with existing CSPPCs and BPPCs. It's all a matter of tweaking the final product before the initial release. This method reminds me of some of the PSX software releases. Even if Olaf doesn't have a PPC board, that doesn't mean he can't develop PPC software, it would just need to be compiled and tested remotely.
> 3. Juergen Haage said how he would like to change the concept (this hasn't been
> translated yet, I just summarize): He said that it is very unlikely that there are
> many users who will buy an AmigaOne mainboard if it costs around 1000DM (~500EUR).
> But there would be more customers that want to buy OS4 for around 100DM (~50EUR),
> like OS3.5/3.9. His idea is not to release OS4 for PPC only machines but also for 68k
> machines.
Allow me to reitterate a specific point I stated earlier -
: H&P are potentially worried that not enough A1 systems will be sold, so, they are
: treading on the line out in the open in hopes of relieving their own tensions.
...
: This is a project where they have obviously put down their lively hood on the very nip
: and tuck of the preverbial wire.
So, didn't I already state the same information without your summarization? H&P rely on a product to exist before anything can really happen, same with Eyetech. The whole thing is a vicious merry-go-round circle constantly trying to bite itself on the tail (pearl of wisdom anyone?). Think of it like building a new house, when you hoist the wall up, you need to have support on the other end or have one hell of a good balancing act ready to go.
> 4. The last sentence of Haage's answer reads more like he really doesn't think that
> Amiga Inc. can manage a project like OS4. If you read the German text it's definitively
> more than: "I can't comment this ATM".
Let me quote Martin Heine -
: The article contains quick and dirty translations of comments made yesterday and today
: by Mr. Haage
Also something interesting to note, the English article posted at Amiga-news.de isn't even the words of Jurgen but the translation of Sven Kirmse. Like I stated earlier, I only know enough German to be a health hazaard so any translations done by someone other than the person who stated it must be taken with a huge grain of salt and then some. Try this, take the English translation and run it through babel into German. Take the German translation and run it back through into English. The best translation is for the person who wrote the information to say it himself in the translated language so people won't read more into it than needed. "Sometimes a cigar, is just a cigar"
> BTW: Where did Bill McEwen confirm that the AmigaOne board is running? The last
> official statement was that they try to integrate the CPU module.
Amiwest audio, it's on the Aminet. Listen to the point where he "lost the bet" and you'll hear it plain as day. If I remember correctly it's about 20 or so minutes in but it's there. Surprised you missed it, or did you bother to listen to it since MorphOS wasn't involved?
> If you don't believe just wait until November, but don't be surprised if all
> your hopes will get destroy.
Sorry David, I don't think the MorphOS development is going to completely cease functioning or take a flying leap off a bridge any time soon, I already know that much. But who ever said I couldn't dream. As for the AmigaOne being on time, that's a good one, I needed a good laugh today. |
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