| [News] Eyetech talks about Terrasoft | ANN.lu |
| Posted on 12-Mar-2003 05:59 GMT by Christian Kemp (Edited on 2003-03-12 08:46:13 GMT by Christian Kemp) | 146 comments
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An anonymous reader links to this message by Alan Redhouse talking about Terrasoft, a possible 1.3Ghz CPU module, and XE delivery dates.
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| Eyetech talks about Terrasoft : Comment 73 of 146 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by DaveP on 12-Mar-2003 14:00 GMT | OK risking boss wrath here....
Firstly Ben Hermans does not say that this is recent behaviour. I have been
spoofed many times in the past and had terrible trouble trying to get people
to believe I didn't make such asnine statements like "Pegasos is just a Mac".
Secondly I don't agree that it is a slur on ANN because it is quite frankly
evidenced by the content of the posting of late. Lets look at the accusations
one by one:
#1 Troels post had the point "Its not about the site, its about SOME of the users". Ben
followed up agreeing with that analysis. No where in Bens comment #44 do I see
him making a DIRECT criticism of the site.
#2 Ben said:"Much like Alan has done now, I have in the past expressed concerns about the quality of discussion here and elsewhere. "
He probably has expressed those concerns, but here we see no detail of what those concerns
were apart from "quality of discussion". This could be taken two ways but unfortunately
or Ben the most probably interpretation is the general one - that the quality of
debate in general is shocking. Is this evidenced? Yes and no. Yes in that the quality
posts are drowned in the noise from the trolls, no in that there are few trolls making
lot of noise and often the debate here has a HECK of a lot of quality.
#3 " These endless flamewars, impersonations, silly recriminations, personal insults etc. are very off putting to many users. "
OK, exaggeration "endless", they tend to have a finite life span in my experience. Bad
point is "silly recriminations". They do happen but decribing anything as silly is subjective.
Personal insults? Phew do we get them on ANN!
He does make one fair point that isn't the same as other places that don't allow
it ( like usenet where you can work it out from the header - e.g. SteveG ), the impersonations
one. This has made ANN quite difficult to read, in fact MooBunny also had a spate of
impersonations for a while and that has similar "debate quality" problems but in the main
because it is less popular than ANN it does not come under the same fire. So yes
some of the criticism would also apply to MooBunny but then look up a paragraph
and he sayes "here and elsewhere". Covered, just. Two paragraphs down "This is
nothing to do with ANN".
So I find Bens remarks reasonably fair given the qualifiers he puts in there. ANNs
biggest problem is the background noise from the impersonaters and the swear-kids.
OK so now onto your post.
Phew!
"I have been on the internet since the beginning and I submit that
this is typical discussions. The discussion on comp.sys.amiga.misc
were every bit as animated as on ANN.LU. This is a normal discussion board,
it is not in any way full of 'flamers'. "
Well to be fair I have been a lurker of csam for a LONG time and it is just
as full of flamers as here, and impersonators so I think that you are right
this is typical "internet" fare. However there is no reason why not to strive
for better and as said before on Usenet you can at least identify a spoofer
simply and even better - add them to your killfile ;-)
" This is all codewords for intolerance. I submit Mr. Hermans is very upset
when an opinion doesn't go his way, and I have never heard him once
criticize one of his fans. Its not about 'flaming' its about obtaining
'agreement'. "
Well I hope it isn't codewords for intolerance. I see no reason why we cant
have the debate without the personal references, the impersonations and the
trolling. Like for example debates are in real life when people are faced by
each other. WRT Ben, I have never heard him criticize one of his fans *on here*
although I ask the question - does he have "fans"?
I can't answer the last bit because I am missing a part of your reasoning that
takes us from not being about flaming but about obtaining agreement. Can you supply
more of your train of thought?
"Everyone can form their own opinion....does Mr. Hermans get upset to hear
anti-hyperion talk, even when its civil, or does he get upset about
emotional language even when its in favor of hyperion. "
I would say that everyone can form their own opinions and should, the problem
is a lot of people don't. In chatrooms and on other sites you can see myths
picked up from deliberate distortions on other chat rooms/sites repeated as
verbatim fact.
Second part, I would say that Ben, like every other human being ( e.g. Christian
over ANN ) would get upset over anti-hyperion talk. Everyone in those circumstances
has bias which is why when I read peoples posts I always have a "well they would
react like this" mental checklist. I have read commments ( sickly positive ) that
frankly make we want to puke in the nearest styrofoam cup but what can you say? Its
like whipping a puppy dog that is humping your leg - you both come away feeling
dirtied from the experience.
Finally thanks for the compliment MarkTime. I do try to think things through
before I post and I don't always succeed. I also try not to be biased one
way or another but obviously fail frequently ( see Christophes comments on the
subject ).
If everyone can discuss things civilly, and say Ben Hermans throws a tantrum
then his views will be exposed much more effectively than yours or mine speculation
about his "human" reactions.
TTFN
Dave. ( in trouble ) |
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