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[Rant] Future of Pegasos, A1 and OS4ANN.lu
Posted on 06-Jun-2003 11:32 GMT by takemehomegrandma114 comments
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Some days ago there were a thread on amiga.org that discussed the future; who of the alternatives in the Amiga OS market would be the dominant winner? I have thought about that and come to a conclusion of which you can read below. This text also involves the Amiga brand, the future of A1 and OS4, as well as OS4 on Pegasos.

Let’s begin with takemehomegrandmas encyclopedia of computer platform creation. :-)

A computer platform is a complex puzzle consisting of many pieces:

To get going you first need the most basic pieces: an operating system (MorphOS) and hardware (Pegasos). These pieces are the very core foundation. Then you need the application/games piece (Aminet, Commercial Amiga/MOS software, and the Super Bundle), but in order to get that piece you have to have the developers piece (Phoenix, Sceners, The Community, etc), but in order to get that piece you must begin to lay down the first pieces of the puzzle (Betatester1/2, Early versions of MorphOS, SDK) and drawing all kinds of creative people towards the platform by making the whole thing visible through the "visability piece" (Visiting trade shows, Public Reviews (OS News, etc), Press and TV, Spreading the word on the community forums). The previously mentioned "developers piece" is essential, and the end result will benefit if this piece is as big as possible (Bring as many other OS'es as possible to the platform and enjoy the cross-fertilization).

Laying this part (the initial construction) of the puzzle is a bit of "which came first, the chicken or the egg". All the pieces are necessary but each piece rely on the other ones allready being there. Therefore you have look at this part of your "puzzling" as a circle of events. But it's not enough to just identify the pieces. To lay the puzzle you need to get organized (PriceWaterhouseCoopers sets up a corporate structure), a great deal of money (Genesi), management (Genesi, Professional external management consultants (can't remember their name)), active support from happy community members (us enthusiastic MOS followers ;-) ), and someone holding it all together and on the right course (BBRV).

After "circling the events" for a while, you will have a solid base for your platform. This is not the end goal. This is the beginning. Let's call this base the "input market" which is a melting pot of community (developers, enthusiasts, alternative computer users, etc), technology, creativity, fun, and business opportunities for everyone interested in making a buck. The end goal, where the big money is and where everyones creative efforts will be channeled to, will be the "output market", and this is the second (and most interesting) part of the puzzle.

What is the "output market" then? Is it the Wintel workstation market? Is it the 1985 computer market that we all remember with joy as the "Amiga era"? I'm afraid that the latter is gone forever (or rather: it became the todays alternative computer market, one of the components of our "input market"). And I think it won't be the wintel kind of market either. That market is overcrowded and is actually shrinking. The MHz race is over. The companies there are in chrisis because they are stuck in the old way of thinking. The IT world is changing now, into something that many calls the "convergence market". My guess is that the future end-user "computing" products is yet to be formed. They might come in several shapes. Many peoples reasoning of "the future of the Amiga/Pegasos" is based on the assumption that there will forever be the same structure of Platforms and "Computers" as we know them today. But what if the future computing products needs to be more context driven, with focus on the customers needs rather than on the actual tower box itself? The computer market has up to now been product oriented. This is about to change, and I think that is obvious.

I think it's amusing to read comments like "Genesi have no future since they only sold 600 units", "how can you expect any developer to be excited over a 600 people userbase", "How can you sell your hardware so cheap", "How can you *give* away the OS" and stuff like that. Hilarious! But these kind of comments is made from the assumption that the "input market" is the final goal. And to many of us people "living" in this input market, it *might be* the end goal and the only important thing. And there is nothing wrong with that. Have fun! :-) But one has to remember that to keep the fire under this melting cup alive (that is: to keep bringing in interesting developers' technology as the PegasosTwo among other, future, devices) one has to succeed on the "output market". STB's, the Psylent, the mobile Eclipsis and various incarnations of these (and other) devices will be a key. That's where the future is secured, not by selling 600 units of Pegasos (or even three times that many, if you know what I mean ;-) ).

And since the OS and the developers' hardware are such key pieces of the puzzle, and the future dollars from the output market is *so totally dependent* on them, don't you think it makes sense to make it as easy as possible for the community in the "input market" to get ahold of them? To make the obstacles to join the evolution as small as possible, so to say? If you look at the OS, it's just one of many components that makes any of the products on the output market, and it only makes sense in combination with the others. Therefore you could make it totally free for the input market. Heck, upload the OS to Kazaa, DC++, and the corporate website to make it *really* easy for people to download it. The wider spread the OS is on developer desktops in the input market, the better for the future convergence products on the output market. Any dongles in this context is utter madness. So is any $8000 motherboards. That only makes sense if you look at the input market as the final goal (and what’s the future in that way of thinking?).

There are (rather: were) one similarity between Amiga Inc (2 years ago) and Genesi. They both see (AInc: saw) business opportunities in the computer convergence market. But the similarities stops there.

Amiga Inc started out in the peak of the dot-com era. They wrote a busines plan with a lot of hype (you only have to look back in time a little on the net to see what I mean. Everything they said was spoken in "dot-com"-ish) and got a Venture Capitalist to fund a company. They licensed some IP from tao (their view of entering this market), and then they invested a lot of time and all that money in ... well, nothing!! Towards the end they decided to try another approach and handed over the AmigaOS to Hyperion and the exclusive right to Amiga branded hardware to Eyetech. That is, they split the key puzzle pieces and gave them away in two separate directions, each by itself. That's all Amiga Inc really achieved in those years. What remains is two separate pieces of a potential puzzle.

Genesi has begun to lay the first part of the puzzle described above. They have released products on the input market and done a lot of other things, but IMO they have not reached the "start line" yet. It will take some more of that "circleing" to get there, but it's no doubt they will get there, because they have allready secured all the pieces under the same umbrella, and they have everything it takes to finish it. They have left the locker room, entered the track, and is beginning to warm up serously before the race. But that doesn't stop them from allready prepearing the route for the second part of the puzzle, the part when the race actually begins.

This part of the puzzle is still kind of vague for us in the community, but some information has been released some day ago. It's about the output market. There has to be some products like hardware (STB's, mobile devices like Eclipsis, etc), OS (MorphOS), Applications and games (Phoenix, Atari), and whatever input Nolan Bushnell and his www.uwink.com brings. There also has to be distribution channels (Atari, Plexuscom, Genesi resellers, etc), a strong brand (Atari), and capital (Atari, Genesi). This part of the puzzle is essential for securing the future development of "our" platform. And IMO it looks kind of promising :-).

Some people also seems to think that OS4 and the A1 are competitors to MorphOS and the Pegasos. I think not! Remember, the race is on the *output market*. If Amiga Inc had played their card differently a couple of years back, then perhaps there would have been a "red puzzle" slowly materializing for this market by now. But that is not the case. Two lonely, isolated pieces of an abandoned puzzle is materializing.

The A1 piece is such an uninteresting piece of hardware that it won't even succeed on the *input* market. OK, some fanatics will buy it because it is said to be the only way to run OS4 at decent speed. That's it!

OS4, will only be sold to some CSPPC owners and the fanatics that buy the A1. That's it! But OS4 has far better chances to succeed on the alternative computer market (our "input market") than the A1, *IF* Hyperion manage to get the OS running on some interesting hardware.

Some people thinks that Genesi should pay money and accept the conditions to get an "Amiga" license. That won't happen, there is no reason for them to do that. The brand has been dead for 10 years or so, except in our little part of the alternative computer market. And now there is this new Atari plan, where the brand only seems to be minor part. Sure the Amiga brand could mean something to get more momentum on the *input* market; more developers attracted to the platform. But they allready have momentum, and the interest for the platform is increasing anyway, much thanks to all the OS'es that's being ported.

It lies within *Hyperions* interest to get their OS running on interesting hardware, and this is nothing that Genesi should be paying *them* for (or rather: the Amiga Inc corpse)! If they can't get their OS to run on interesting hardware, then nobody will use their OS (other than some hundred fanatics). The CSPPC is *NOT* interesting. It's old and slow now. RIP. The A1 is *NOT* interesting, it's hilarious price tag is only one of it's problems when compared to the PegasosTwo. RIP. Hyperion is trapped and their OS effort is riscing to suffocate in it's incubator. But they *could still* try to make their effort pay off on the alternative computer market ("our" input market) via the more sensible PegasosTwo platform. I'm sure they are more than welcome to do that. Lot's of OS'es are/will be running on that platform. The platform is allready gaining attention from international press (even TV) and it will attract all kind of "alternative geeks" (;-)). The resulting cross-fertilization will benefit everyone involved, and everyone is invited. :-)

And I'm sure that Hyperion would really have done this if it would have been possible. But here is the problem. Remember that Eyetech has exclusive right to Amiga branded hardware (but only the HW), so if Hyperion would bring the amiga brand to the Pegasos hardware there would be a trademark infringement/contract violation. This trademark split is what stopping OS4 on Pegasos, not Hyperion and certainly not Genesi (OS4 on Pegasos would only boost the creativity on the Pegasos platform, *and* OS4). The A1 could have benefitted from running MorphOS some six months ago too. It would have been a lot easier for Eyetech to sell that board with an Amiga related OS instead of Linux. But that would have been impossible for the same reason (Hyperion holds the right to the Amiga brand for the OS).

The A1 and OS4 are floating alone on a big ocean. Amiga Inc was planning to lay a puzzle using these two pieces (among lots of others), but didn't want them to start puzzling too much on their own (*must* be a threesome). So AInc tied their hands behind their backs through the conditions of the deal and tied them firmly to their own body. The three depend on each other. Problem is, Amiga Inc is not floating anymore. And they are still tied together. It would be nice if Hyperion would find a way to get around this. I am not particulary interested in the OS4 myself (many of the "reds" think that all Pegasos owners are dying to get OS4; perhaps some, but not all!), but I would try it out among all the other OS'es on this platform if it became available!

When amiga.org had their interview with Ben Hermans, I submitted some questions to find out Bens view of the future, how they would succeed, how anyone thinking about investing time and money into products for their OS would be rewarded. I wanted to know something about their strategies. To me, the future (in the "output market") is more interesting and fundamental than wether the OS will have a CDDA filesystem upon it's initial release (and that kind of questions). Unfortunately, my questions were not forwarded to Ben (perhaps another time?). I asked the same questions to BBRV, and it will be interesting to see their answeres (if the questions gets forwarded, BTW, what happened to that interview?).

OK, debate! :-)

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Future of Pegasos, A1 and OS4 : Comment 108 of 114ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 09-Jun-2003 14:10 GMT
>A computer platform is a complex puzzle consisting of many pieces:

I prefer to look at it as producers vs consumers, programers vs hardware engineers, executives vs workers, etc.

>To get going you first need the most basic pieces: an operating system
>(MorphOS) and hardware (Pegasos). These pieces are the very core foundation.

Well, just like AmigaOS4 and the AmigaOne.

>Then you need the application/games piece (Aminet, Commercial Amiga/MOS
>software, and the Super Bundle),

Well, when it comes to applications, I do believe MorphOS is the one loosing out. Both AmigaOS4 and MorphOS can run classic Amiga applications, but only AmigaOS4 can run applications made for using the new modern features of AmigaOS4. Sure, MorphOS has modern features too, but those modern features are not AmigaOS compatible and I doubt most Amiga software developers is willing to sacrifice the AmigaOS compatibility.

This is like the H&P vs Phase5 war all over again, should we support WarpUP or PowerUP? WarpUP became "official" by AmigaOS3.5 and PowerUP was soon abandoned. There is a lesson to be learned from this.

>but in order to get that piece you have to
>have the developers piece (Phoenix, Sceners, The Community, etc),

Or, how about getting the best of them and let them be a part of making the OS themselves?

>but in order
>to get that piece you must begin to lay down the first pieces of the puzzle
>(Betatester1/2, Early versions of MorphOS, SDK)

Yes betatesters, buggy prereleases of MorphOS, etc. What puzzles me is; why do they keep calling it betatesters when they've reached MorphOS 1.0 quite along time ago? Also, isn't it quite dubious to charge full price for something that is still classified as beta? Furthermore, they admitt to that their hardware is malfunctioning due to the chipset and that for this reason they will cancel the production and instead release a new "bugfree" version called Pegasos2 this autumn, yet they keep selling the first version at full price.

>and drawing all kinds of
>creative people towards the platform by making the whole thing visible through
>the "visability piece" (Visiting trade shows, Public Reviews (OS News, etc),
>Press and TV, Spreading the word on the community forums).

Well, I recommend settling the brand issue *before* starting a PR campaign like that. Furthermore, I appreciate Amiga Inc.'s new strategy of "let's not say anything until we have something to show".

>The previously
>mentioned "developers piece" is essential, and the end result will benefit if
>this piece is as big as possible (Bring as many other OS'es as possible to the
>platform and enjoy the cross-fertilization).

Well, that's one strategy. Personally I prefer the hardware independant OS approach rather than the OS independant hardware approach, I doubt it would be easier to attract users through impressive hardware specs than OS features.

I can't wait to see AmigaOS5 running on both x86 and PPC. I know it's far away but I think recent events might have convinced you that certain things are going to happen despite the delays.

>Laying this part (the initial construction) of the puzzle is a bit of "which
>came first, the chicken or the egg".

Neither, they came through evolution. There is no mystery here; it's only a matter of making the product, then selling it.

>All the pieces are necessary but each piece rely on the other ones allready
>being there. Therefore you have look at this part of your "puzzling" as a
>circle of events. But it's not enough to just identify the pieces. To lay the
>puzzle you need to get organized (PriceWaterhouseCoopers sets up a corporate
>structure), a great deal of money (Genesi), management (Genesi, Professional
>external management consultants (can't remember their name)), active support
>from happy community members (us enthusiastic MOS followers ;-) ), and someone
>holding it all together and on the right course (BBRV).

Eeeer... So, your "puzzle" is Genesi + consultants + happy community + BBRV?

Let me tell you why I don't like the term "puzzle" when it comes to building a platform; the pieces of a puzzle are unique, irreplaceable and does only fit in one specific spot of the big picture. I prefer using terms such as "ingredients". The recipe for a computer platform goes something like this:

1. Hardware

2. Software

3. Distribution

4. Marketing

1 is very well handled by Eyetech. 2 is very well handled by Hyperion and their contractors. 3 is handled by all three parties (Amiga Inc, Eyetech, Hyperion) through cooperation and coordination, something Genesi could learn from. 4 will be handled by Amiga Inc. using their world famous trademark.

What I see here is as many as possible pitching in where they can, trying to bring back the platform again. I see Amiga Inc. trying to cooperate with every major Amiga company, even offering to give away their IP in case of insolvency. I see Eyetech wearing their butts off for trying to find a suitable hardware designer, then a suitable manufacturer for the design, then a suitable quality insurance routine, and then the best way of distributing it all to the local Amiga dealers. I see Hyperion stepping in when needed the most and taking on the challange to port AmigaOS to PPC, but also bringing in alot of talents of the Amiga community as contract workers to work on the parts of the OS which they know best. The keyword here is; cooperation.

>After "circling the events" for a while, you will have a solid base for your
>platform. This is not the end goal. This is the beginning. Let's call this
>base the "input market" which is a melting pot of community (developers, >enthusiasts, alternative computer users, etc), technology, creativity, fun,
>and business opportunities for everyone interested in making a buck.

600 users is not a "solid base". Amiga Inc. has 1000 users willing to put 50$ up front, I suspect atleast twice as many will be purchasing AmigaOS4. However, that's just a "guestimate".

You know, the bad part of marketing yourself as a clone is that people will give you that "brand x clone" stamp. I dare you to give me an example of when a clone has surpassed the original. Now, even if you find an example, it's firmly printed into the majority of people's heads that a clone is never as good as the real thing. Especially the Amiga has a certain cult status and getting yourself an Amiga clone is only if you desperately want something "Amiga alike" and because the real thing isn't available right now. Showing off an exotic and unknown Amiga clone to your friends simply isn't as cool as with a real Amiga.

Don't underestimate the power of "The Name"(TM).

>The end goal, where the big money is and where everyones creative efforts will
>be channeled to, will be the "output market", and this is the second (and most
>interesting) part of the puzzle.

Wait a minute, I recognize this from somewhere...

>What is the "output market" then? Is it the Wintel workstation market? Is it
>the 1985 computer market that we all remember with joy as the "Amiga era"? I'm
>afraid that the latter is gone forever (or rather: it became the todays
>alternative computer market, one of the components of our "input market"). And
>I think it won't be the wintel kind of market either. That market is
>overcrowded and is actually shrinking. The MHz race is over. The companies
>there are in chrisis because they are stuck in the old way of thinking. The IT
>world is changing now, into something that many calls the "convergence
>market". My guess is that the future end-user "computing" products is yet to
>be formed. They might come in several shapes. Many peoples reasoning of "the
>future of the Amiga/Pegasos" is based on the assumption that there will
>forever be the same structure of Platforms and "Computers" as we know them
>today. But what if the future computing products needs to be more context
>driven, with focus on the customers needs rather than on the actual tower box
>itself? The computer market has up to now been product oriented. This is about
>to change, and I think that is obvious.

I doubt that the x86 market is in chrisis, but as for the rest; that's what Amiga Inc has been saying all along!!! Hence the AmigaDE strategy, you know.

>I think it's amusing to read comments like "Genesi have no future since they
>only sold 600 units", "how can you expect any developer to be excited over a
>600 people userbase", "How can you sell your hardware so cheap", "How can you
>*give* away the OS" and stuff like that. Hilarious!

No, it's not hilarious. It's perfectly natural questions from a userbase that has seen many Amiga companies come and go. The fact that some of these guys are former Phase5 and VisCorp employees makes these kind of questions even more natural.

>But these kind of comments
>is made from the assumption that the "input market" is the final goal. And to
>many of us people "living" in this input market, it *might be* the end goal
>and the only important thing. And there is nothing wrong with that. Have
>fun! :-)

For the consumers, yes the product they are purchasing is their final goal. They don't care about the company's "final goal", why would they?

>But one has to remember that to keep the fire under this melting cup alive
>(that is: to keep bringing in interesting developers' technology as the
>PegasosTwo among other, future, devices) one has to succeed on the "output
>market". STB's, the Psylent, the mobile Eclipsis and various incarnations of
>these (and other) devices will be a key. That's where the future is secured,
>not by selling 600 units of Pegasos (or even three times that many, if you
>know what I mean ;-) ).

Well, the problem I see is restricting yourself to only one hardware manufacturer. With the future of AmigaOS + AmigaDE, I will be able to keep up with modern hardware standards, no matter what they will be or whom is making it. MorphOS users is restricted to Genesi as their hardware providers.

>And since the OS and the developers' hardware are such key pieces of the
>puzzle, and the future dollars from the output market is *so totally
>dependent* on them, don't you think it makes sense to make it as easy as
>possible for the community in the "input market" to get ahold of them? To make
>the obstacles to join the evolution as small as possible, so to say?

Sure, but why the entire Amiga community? Are you saying we are all important key developers?

>If you
>look at the OS, it's just one of many components that makes any of the
>products on the output market, and it only makes sense in combination with the
>others. Therefore you could make it totally free for the input market. Heck,
>upload the OS to Kazaa, DC++, and the corporate website to make it *really*
>easy for people to download it. The wider spread the OS is on developer
>desktops in the input market, the better for the future convergence products
>on the output market.

Please, the OS is not free because they've bundled it with the hardware. In that case, AmigaOS4 will be free too with the exception that you'll have to pay for the CyberPPC (and possibly BlizzPPC) version.

Furthermore, uploading the OS to Kazaa would make it the most useless binaries online since no Kazaa users owns a Pegasos capable of running it.

Regarding the generousity of Genesi, they are generous because they can. End of mystery.

>Any dongles in this context is utter madness. So is any
>$8000 motherboards. That only makes sense if you look at the input market as
>the final goal (and what’s the future in that way of thinking?).

Don't tell me you've bought Seehund's FUD campaign. The deal is simple; THE AMIGAOS4.0 LICENSING SCHEME DOES NOT EFFECT THE HARDWARE COMPATIBILITY OF AMIGAOS4.0. MorphOS does not run on anything besides the Pegasos despite not having this licensing scheme, for example. The mere suggestion of anything else is pure and simple FUD.

>There are (rather: were) one similarity between Amiga Inc (2 years ago) and
>Genesi. They both see (AInc: saw) business opportunities in the computer
>convergence market. But the similarities stops there.

Yes, Genesi has no intentions what so ever with cooperating with the rest of the Amiga market. They are aiming at the Amiga community despite having no relevance to it besides beeing able to run legacy Amiga applications through emulation and reverse engineered AmigaOS API's.

>Amiga Inc started out in the peak of the dot-com era. They wrote a busines
>plan with a lot of hype (you only have to look back in time a little on the
>net to see what I mean.

There were no more "hype" there than there is on the Pegasos-USA website today. Perhaps I should inform you that even Bill Buck & Raquel Velasco were a part of writing these business plans themselves. They were the first ones to get an AmigaDE license, they were partners!

>Everything they said was spoken in "dot-com"-ish) and got a Venture Capitalist
>to fund a company. They licensed some IP from tao (their view of entering this
>market), and then they invested a lot of time and all that money in ... well,
>nothing!!

Alot of time and money went on trying to make things work out with bPlan, mind you. There are a lot more to things than the eye can see, you know.

>Towards the end they decided to try another approach and handed over the
>AmigaOS to Hyperion and the exclusive right to Amiga branded hardware to
>Eyetech. That is, they split the key puzzle pieces and gave them away in two
>separate directions, each by itself. That's all Amiga Inc really achieved in
>those years. What remains is two separate pieces of a potential puzzle.

What remains is three partners in a partnership that is soon starting to come to fruition. That's what's a true business is all about, cooperation. Microsoft didn't get were they are today by doing things on their own, you know.

>Genesi has begun to lay the first part of the puzzle described above. They
>have released products on the input market and done a lot of other things, but
>IMO they have not reached the "start line" yet. It will take some more of
>that "circleing" to get there, but it's no doubt they will get there, because
>they have allready secured all the pieces under the same umbrella, and they
>have everything it takes to finish it. They have left the locker room, entered
>the track, and is beginning to warm up serously before the race. But that
>doesn't stop them from allready prepearing the route for the second part of
>the puzzle, the part when the race actually begins.

I'm afraid they've already reached their peak of their business. As soon as their competition has started to actively sell products, they will face some really tough times. I would like to see Bill Buck face all the FUD he has been spreading around such as the business card, statements like "the AmigaOne is going to die a slow and painful death", all the ArticiaS bull, etc.

>This part of the puzzle is still kind of vague for us in the community, but
>some information has been released some day ago. It's about the output market.
>There has to be some products like hardware (STB's, mobile devices like
>Eclipsis, etc), OS (MorphOS), Applications and games (Phoenix, Atari), and
>whatever input Nolan Bushnell and his www.uwink.com brings. There also has to
>be distribution channels (Atari, Plexuscom, Genesi resellers, etc), a strong
>brand (Atari), and capital (Atari, Genesi). This part of the puzzle is
>essential for securing the future development of "our" platform. And IMO it
>looks kind of promising :-).

Yes, get your own brand. Finally. Good bye and thank you for the fish.

>Some people also seems to think that OS4 and the A1 are competitors to MorphOS
>and the Pegasos. I think not! Remember, the race is on the *output market*. If
>Amiga Inc had played their card differently a couple of years back, then
>perhaps there would have been a "red puzzle" slowly materializing for this
>market by now. But that is not the case. Two lonely, isolated pieces of an
>abandoned puzzle is materializing.

The red market is indeed there, distributed my Microsoft themselves. It's beeing spread to more and more devices as we speak, laying the foundation for our future software market.

>The A1 piece is such an uninteresting piece of hardware that it won't even
>succeed on the *input* market. OK, some fanatics will buy it because it is
>said to be the only way to run OS4 at decent speed. That's it!

The AmigaOne is an upgrade path for classic Amiga users, end of story. There are no features about the Pegasos which would make it more "interesting" than the AmigaOne. The AmigaOne even has one more PCI slot than the Pegasos, for christ sake!

>OS4, will only be sold to some CSPPC owners and the fanatics that buy the A1.
>That's it! But OS4 has far better chances to succeed on the alternative
>computer market (our "input market") than the A1, *IF* Hyperion manage to get
>the OS running on some interesting hardware.

What makes you think the AmigaOne will sell worse than the Pegasos? Facts: The Pegasos has sold in the amount of 600 units, Amiga Inc. has approx. 1,000 prepayments for the AmigaOne + AmigaOS4. Your above reasoning makes no sense what so ever.

>Some people thinks that Genesi should pay money and accept the conditions to
>get an "Amiga" license. That won't happen, there is no reason for them to do
>that. The brand has been dead for 10 years or so, except in our little part of
>the alternative computer market. And now there is this new Atari plan, where
>the brand only seems to be minor part. Sure the Amiga brand could mean
>something to get more momentum on the *input* market; more developers
>attracted to the platform. But they allready have momentum, and the interest
>for the platform is increasing anyway, much thanks to all the OS'es that's
>being ported.

There are atleast a million former Amiga users out there *today*. Don't underestimate the power of the brand. If Genesi tells you that they are not interested in the brand then they are bullshitting you. They want it and they want it bad, for a good reason. While it might not matter for the so-called "input market" (the "input market" is easy to persuade), it's of outmost importance to the "output market".

>It lies within *Hyperions* interest to get their OS running on interesting
>hardware, and this is nothing that Genesi should be paying *them* for (or
>rather: the Amiga Inc corpse)! If they can't get their OS to run on
>interesting hardware, then nobody will use their OS (other than some hundred
>fanatics). The CSPPC is *NOT* interesting. It's old and slow now. RIP. The A1
>is *NOT* interesting, it's hilarious price tag is only one of it's problems
>when compared to the PegasosTwo. RIP.

Ehhhhmm... The CSPPC is of course of outmost interest to those owning one, don't you think? The AmigaOne is a great upgrade path for the classic Amiga hardware owners; it's cheaper than all previous PPC upgrade options that the Amiga community has ever had and outruns them in performance by far.

What's interesting about the Pegasos if you are an AmigaOS fan? If you don't care about AmigaOS nor "the name", isn't a PC with Windows even faster and cheaper?

> Hyperion is trapped and their OS effort
>is riscing to suffocate in it's incubator. But they *could still* try to make
>their effort pay off on the alternative computer market ("our" input market)
>via the more sensible PegasosTwo platform.

Why? I mean, why put the extra effort for only 600 users? Hyperion are now considering BlizzPPC owners, which are quite a few more than just 600, and question is if it's worth it. When it comes to the Pegasos, they already *know* it's not worth it.

And then again, what is making the Pegasos more "sensible"? I really don't get it.

>I'm sure they are more than welcome
>to do that. Lot's of OS'es are/will be running on that platform. The platform
>is allready gaining attention from international press (even TV) and it will
>attract all kind of "alternative geeks" (;-)). The resulting cross-
>fertilization will benefit everyone involved, and everyone is invited. :-)

The hardware options should be competing for the OS, not the other way around.

>And I'm sure that Hyperion would really have done this if it would have been
>possible. But here is the problem. Remember that Eyetech has exclusive right
>to Amiga branded hardware (but only the HW), so if Hyperion would bring the
>amiga brand to the Pegasos hardware there would be a trademark
>infringement/contract violation. This trademark split is what stopping OS4 on
>Pegasos, not Hyperion and certainly not Genesi (OS4 on Pegasos would only
>boost the creativity on the Pegasos platform, *and* OS4). The A1 could have
>benefitted from running MorphOS some six months ago too. It would have been a
>lot easier for Eyetech to sell that board with an Amiga related OS instead of
>Linux. But that would have been impossible for the same reason (Hyperion holds
>the right to the Amiga brand for the OS).

I got one word for you: FUD. Yes, FUD as in Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt. Please stop spreading such weird theories, who told you this? The ONLY reason for why Hyperion hasn't considered the Pegasos is because Genesi has made it *perfectly* clear that they are NOT interested in cooperating. If they don't want to cooperate, there simply is no reason in this world why they should support their strange and exotic Pegasos platform which few has even heard of.

>The A1 and OS4 are floating alone on a big ocean. Amiga Inc was planning to
>lay a puzzle using these two pieces (among lots of others), but didn't want
>them to start puzzling too much on their own (*must* be a threesome).

Well, perfectly sensible if you are a business that needs income to survive. Once they have become a profitable business, they will of course bring development of the classic product line back "in house". What's the problem with doing so, really?

>So AInc
>tied their hands behind their backs through the conditions of the deal and
>tied them firmly to their own body.

Huh? How? I really don't know what you are on about here but they have NOT restricted their abilities to act by this deal, on the contrary.

>The three depend on each other.

Of course, just like Genesi depend on their "key developers".

>Problem
>is, Amiga Inc is not floating anymore.

Huh?

>And they are still tied together.

Nope. They are not dependant of each other, the AmigaOne earlybirds and the exclusive Hyperion deal prooves this.

>It
>would be nice if Hyperion would find a way to get around this. I am not
>particulary interested in the OS4 myself (many of the "reds" think that all
>Pegasos owners are dying to get OS4; perhaps some, but not all!), but I would
>try it out among all the other OS'es on this platform if it became available!

How are you supposed to "try it out"? Are you saying that you would buy AmigaOS4 just for trying it out? I think Hermans had a point when he said that the only ones complaining about the AmigaOS4 licensing scheme would be the ones pirating it.

You will be able to try AmigaOS4 at your local Amiga dealer soon. If you want it, you'll have to do just like with MacOS or Windows, get the appropriate hardware to go with it (unless you already have it). Where's the problem?

My conclusion of your analysis is that it seems like you have been listening a bit too much on certain FUD meisters and that you are simply summing it all up rather than giving us your own reflections. I suggest giving alternative ways of thinking a bit more thought rather than striving for making an explanation of how all these irrational rumours coming from the MorphOS camp fits together. How about trying to face the counter arguments rather than restating the initial arguments? In short, how about trying to make some progress in all these FUD wars?
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#109 Kay
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