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[Forum] We should all stand tougether!ANN.lu
Posted on 16-Jul-2004 11:56 GMT by Michal (Edited on 2004-07-17 14:23:44 GMT by Teemu I. Yliselä)76 comments
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Amiga is now so divided that groups is threaten its reputation. More and more people which I try to sell MorphOS or AmigaOS4 to, says that the war/etc discussions between this groups kills the platform. Amiga needs a good reputation and it wont have that before we all agree on that going on with both under one name. Which is AMIGA as PC is in the other side of computing. Amiga is a strong word. People remember it,.. but with Amiga showing off that we have AmigaOne, Pegasos etc++ That the community is running PPC motherboard components. That this community is about beein our self. To show that we are different. This is good! And we need to turn the negative words against each other over to positive words. We as the Amiga community controlled lots of it, when everything seemed lost. And now were splitted for nothing? Who's to blame? No one! Its about time, its about the time we all have waited. That users, etc companies have found out how good AmigaOS code is. That it is revolutionary in many ways, but it dosen't help when this community trhows snowballs on each sides when actually both sides is fighting for the same thing. To be the next generation Amiga.

But as Classic Amiga was and is the real Amiga. This new PPC motherboards is not Amiga at all. But they are choices. They have become new choices for everyone. And now we need to rebuild it all. We need to focus on getting Amiga reputation back. And that Amiga as from now on stands for what we all was and are. A userbase that is different and that we really care about each others.

Let us be the Spirit Of Amiga. Let us give Amiga a new life, a community that cares and that wants support from other big companies etc. Medias have allways been overwhelming positive over us. We cannot destroy it now. We need to focus on beeing an alternative platform to Linux, BeOS, Windows, MacOS etc.

Spirit Of Amiga logo

Now lets start to be what Amiga is allways been. The personal computer for home and entertainment areas!

Regards, Michal, www.amigaworld.org

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Comment 66Sammy Nordström19-Jul-2004 03:41 GMT
We should all stand tougether! : Comment 67 of 76ANN.lu
Posted by Janne on 19-Jul-2004 05:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 66 (Sammy Nordström):
OK. I think you make your point, once again, quite nicely. I just disagree. :)

I have divided my reply into three sections that I think respond to the major points of your post.


>What we don't need is a multitude of companies pulling us in different directions (using every means
>possible, even mudslinging and legal action), much less an open source movement.

There are two sides to this issue in my opinion: a) It is already done, so how to best live with it. b) You can not just take things out of context.

I'll deal with b) first. I'll make the bold claim that without MorphOS there might not be AmigaOS 4. I'm not saying this is necessarily so, but I am saying that MorphOS has kept the momentum going on a market that was stagnated for a long time. It emerged as a viable alternative only when no other alternative was out there. It is not like it came after some great new future was already forming. We don't know what kind of an AmigaOS 4 we might have today if no MorphOS ever existed. Would there be the competition, the same kind of driving force behind it?

These things were claimed impossible or too impractical for years. After MorphOS proved them possible, we have seen a steady stream of PPC native applications enter the market and both AmigaOS and AROS development have gained a lot of momentum. Would that momentum have been there if no MorphOS existed? Maybe. But then again, maybe not. If anything, I think MorphOS kept some of the Amiga enthusiasts around a bit longer - and some of those who stayed on because MorphOS gave them something to do are nowadays developing for AmigaOS 4 as well.

So, things never exist or live in a vacuum. The unfortunate sides you see in the current situation are not the whole story. We will never know what might have happened, but the unified future might not be any more brighter for all we know. I do admit, freely, that I wish more cooperation existed and I, as much as the next guy, long for the days when Commodore ruled and we had a clear path to follow...

Which brings be to a). There, really, is nothing we can do about the division. It is real, it is here, and it shall exist for the foreseeable future. I believe we, as a community, will do better by cooperating than trying to alienate each other. You think otherwise. Fine. That is where we disagree, though.


>Forgive me for beeing such a pessimist, but there is simply too much emotions involved in this
>community, not just among us users. No logo nor forum post will ever be able to change that.

On this, we mostly agree. With the exception that I believe, at least in the possibility, that new people flowing in to the extended Amiga community may be able to change that - not change the old bitter people like you and me, but the atmosphere. People who haven't been here around the wars of the past few years have no reason to have such strong emotions attached and, logic follows, are more likely to look things more practically and reasonably. Perhaps this won't happen, but I believe in the possibility, and thus, think that even us old goats should do what we can to enable this future.

>"The name" issue is a good example of the fanaticism in this community. Almost everybody, including
>myself, say that they are not followers of "the name" and don't have some form of emotional
>attachment to it. However, I once suggested that only users of "the name" computers would be

They don't? :) Well, I would have to disagree with that. However, I would also have to agree that there are many people following a different path who still would like to associate themselves with the old name for sentimental reasons. I'll give you that, and I don't agree with that any more than I agree with the spirit-raising in the original posting. I really, really, don't give a rats behind about all that.

For me, this is a practical issue.

Are you familiar with the words nylon or röntgen? Both are generic terms nowadays, but both used to be trademarks. Discussing about trademark laws and company policies aside, I am of the opinion that the meaning of words is defined by their use rather than trademark owner's policy (and, a bit about laws, trademark laws agree with me to an extent). I'm not in any way advocating or condoning commercial misuse of trademarks, but I am saying that everyday talk can and sometimes does expand the meaning of words beyond their brand scope. When I invoke the word UNIX in any discussion with regular computer folk, the word, for most people, covers Linux, NetBSD, Solaris... Some even think MacOS X, even though only one of the mentioned operating systems is really UNIX(R).

MorphOS is clearly not AmigaOS and any person saying so (and I know there are such people) is a zealot and should shut up (sorry for the broad brush). However, I do feel that MorphOS belongs to the "Amiga" family of operating systems, together with AmigaOS and AROS. They have much of the same API, they are very compatible, they are all based on the same original AmigaOS design etc. Saying that MorphOS has nothing to do with Amiga is no more, no less than trademark talk. Just like the word UNIX, to me and to many people, the meaning of the word Amiga has expanded. Partly via official trademark owners words (we now consider things like AmigaDE somewhat related), partly due to world events that reshaped our market just like the UNIX market was reshaped years ago.

You often like to use your Ford car analogy. I do think it is a misplaced analogy, because cars are cars and operating systems are operating systems. I think UNIX is a far better analogy. But for the fun of it, I'll play along. You say only Ford can build Ford cars. Sure. But what if I build spare parts for a Ford car? Are they not Ford parts? Sure, they are not Ford(R) parts. But they are still spare parts for a Ford car. People discuss them as Ford parts, even when they are not Ford(R) parts. What if that spare part would happen to be the computer of the car with compatible logic and all? What if I were to continue replacing parts in the Ford with my clone parts until nothing original remained... What is my car now? Where would you draw the line - when does the car cease to be a Ford?

Luckily in most civilized countries trademarks are there to protect commercial interests against commercial misuse, not to impose limitations on what regular folk can or can not say in the street. People still shape the language as they see fit, like it should be.
#71 Nate Downes #72 Sammy Nordström
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List of all comments to this article (continued)
Comment 68hooligan/dcsRegistered user19-Jul-2004 05:56 GMT
Comment 69Janne19-Jul-2004 07:45 GMT
Comment 70Hagge19-Jul-2004 12:09 GMT
Comment 71Nate DownesRegistered user20-Jul-2004 13:24 GMT
Comment 72Sammy Nordström21-Jul-2004 10:31 GMT
Comment 73Nate DownesRegistered user21-Jul-2004 13:37 GMT
Comment 74Sammy Nordström21-Jul-2004 15:22 GMT
Comment 75Nate DownesRegistered user22-Jul-2004 14:01 GMT
Comment 76Sammy Nordström23-Jul-2004 09:46 GMT
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