| [News] Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 | ANN.lu |
| Posted on 18-Jul-2004 12:20 GMT by Jens Schönfeld | 469 comments
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During the first months of this year, we were totally surprised by the overwhelming demand for Catweasel MK3. All stock has been sold, and even our retail partners do not have anything left in stock. The demand was so high that one controller even went for more than 150,- EUR on eBay!
Unfortunately, it turned out that a new production run of the existing MK3-design cannot be done for reasonable prices, so a re-design became necessary. The new controller is now in the first stage before mass production, so we're confident to be able to show the first controllers at the Amiwest show on july 24th and 25th in Sacramento, Califoria.
Many improvements have been made compared to the Catweasel MK3 that can be summarized under the headline "bigger, better, faster".
The changes in detail
The most obvious change is the size of the card: With only 2.5 inch (63.5mm) height, it complies with the low-profile PCI standard that not only fits into any normal computer case, but also in flat models that are so famous among so-called "case-modders". The Flipper-interface will not be continued. Those who need a Catweasel for their classic Amiga can use the Catweasel Z-II S-Class, which is still availble.
Improvements on the floppy controller
Kylwalda built in
While the old Catweasel models always had their own floppy drives that were installed in addition to the existing controller and drives, the MK4 has the option of using the existing diskdrives. After the machine has started, th drives can be used just like before, and after the drivers have been loaded, the Catweasel can take control of these drives when necessary. This is especially useful for smaller cases with fewer drive bays.
We already addressed this problem earlier with an additional product called 'Kylwalda'.
Suppot for auto-eject drives
These drives without eject-button are well-known from Macintosh computers, and they're now fully supported by the Catweasel. You can also mix floppy types, one with an eject-button, and another from the Macintosh world on the same cable.
Hard-sectored disks supported
This kind of 5.25 and 8 inch disks were already readable with the previous Catweasel models, but writing was only possible with a high software effort, and it required a realtime operating system. This effort is not necessary any more with the new controller, because new options allow complete support of these disk types in hardware.
dual-ported memory
Contrary to it's predecessors, the new Catweasel MK4 can pass the data that it is currently reading from a disk to the computer while the read access is running. This allows realtime emulation, and errorfree function of copy-protected software on emulators.
more flexible read- and write operations
In addition to working on whole tracks, which made all previous Catweasel models so flexible, tracks can now also be accesed in part very precisely. Should this become necessary for compatibility or speed reasons, the Catweasel MK4 is perfectly prepared.
extensive timer-functions
Although most operating systems already offer timer-functions in software, you cannot always rely on them. The most recent example are the timing-problems that occur with Hyperthreading-processors and Windows operating systems. Since all timers are running independantly in the hardware of the Catweasel MK4, nothing can go wrong in this regard.
all events can trigger an interrupt (IRQ)
Together with the hardware-timer functions, this is the best solution for multitasking operating systems. The driver software does not have to check regularly if the controller needs attention, which reduces the processor load.
Improvements on the keyboard interface
In addition to Amiga-keyboards, PS/2 devices can now also be connected. Not only keyboards, but also PS/2 mice are supported. The keyboard controller can now trigger IRQs, and for those customers who want to continue using their favourite combination of PS/2 mouse and keyboard on USB-only computers, the Catweasel MK4 has two connectors of this kind.
Improvements on the joystick ports
Amiga mice supported in hardware
Amiga mice only have minimal electronics that always pass the movements of the device to the computer in realtime. Classic Amiga computers have hardware-support for interpretation of these signals in the chipset, and this support has now been added to the Catweasel. Theoretically, using Amiga mice was already possible with the Catweasel MK3, but this required a software effort that was not justifiable. With the new hardware, the software effort is reduced to a minimum.
every signal can be programmed as output
The digital joystick ports of the 8-bit computers of the 80s were mostly usable in two directions, they were not only inputs, but also programmable as data outputs. We're following this tradition, and also present this possibility for the Catweasel MK4.
compatible with CD32 pads
The game controllers of the Amiga CD32 can now also be used on the Catweasel. A special capability of the classic Amigas (and therefore also of the CD32) made these pads exclusive for this computer, if connected to other computers, not all buttons of the pad could be used. Technically speaking: Even the potentiometer-pins of the digital joystick ports can be programmed as outputs on the Catweasel MK4.
Improvements on the SID audio part
DC-DC converter eliminates noise
On the Catweasel MK3, it was possible that noises from 3D-graphics cards or high-speed harddrives were coupled into the 12V-power supply of the SID audio part. This cannot happen any more on the Catweasel MK4, because a DC-DC converter is an insuperable obstacle for such noises.
cycle-exact control
In addition to the known programming that's compatible with the Catweasel MK3, the MK4 has a sophisticated script-language for SID control. This lets the programmer define the exact time for data that's being written into the SID chips. To make sample playback sound exactly like on a real C64, the data rate to the SID chip must be kept at a constant rate. This is accomplished with Fifo memory that's big enough to maintain the datarate even under high processor load conditions.
Digiboost for new SID versions
As opposed to the 'classic SID' 6581, the newer SID-chips 8580 and 6582 cannot playback samples any more. This option, which is also called 'the fourth voice', is replaced by two sigma-delta converters on the Catweasel MK4, so the fourth channel is also audible with the newer SID versions. Since the filter properties and the sound of mixed waveforms of all SID versions have their supporters, this should make the decision for the right chip a little easier.
Filter capacitors selectable
Commodore has defined three different capacitor values for the filters of the SIDs during the years that this chip has been produced. The result was that the same chip sounded differently if used in different computers. To bring the sound as close as possible to what you are used to, the filter capacitors can be chosen with a few jumpers.
precise clocking
The Catweasel MK3 used the commodore-chip 8701 to recreate the exact same clock. Since our stock of this chip is empty with the Catweasel MK3 being sold out, we have cloned it on the main logic chip of the Catweasel MK4: The exact base frequency is generated with crystals that have been made especially for us. By division and multiplication according to the specifications of the C64 schematics from 1982, we managed to replace the 8701, which is not made any more. Even the slight difference between PAL and NTSC computers is software-selectable!
two SIDs for stereo sound
You'll have twice the SID pleaseure after installing a second SID chip. Every SID has it's own selection of filter capacitors, and SIDs of all versions can be mixed.
Technology improvements
compatible with 3.3V and 5V PCI slots
Even though PC boards with 3.3V PCI slots are not yet widely available, the Catweasel is prepared for it. The roadmap of the PCI special interst group plans to abandon 5V PCI slots within forseeable time, and the Catweasel is perfectly suited for that date. Local generation of the 3.3V power also ensures proper function on early PCI motherboards that do not comply with the ATX standard.
two DMA interfaces
In addition to processor-based data transfer, the Catweasel MK4 can excahnge data with the main system through two low-speed DMA channels: The first goes throught he PCI slot, and it has a capacity of about 8K per second and direction. The second uses the direct connection to the onboard-floppy controller, and the speed is up to 100K per second.
low power consumption
The Catweasel MK4 makes use of the latest FPGA technology with 2.5V core voltage. This reduces the power consumption of the new controller to a fraction of what the Catweasel MK3 used. This also reduces heat generation a lot.
re-configurable logic
The FPGA on the Catweasel MK4 is completely re-configurable by the drivers. This means that a hardware update can be done through the internet! Should we find a disk format that cannot be handled with the current hardware, the core of the Catweasel can be 're-wired' to address the problem. The controller doesn't even have to be taken out of the computer for ths update!
drivers for many operating systems
The Catweasel MK4 is delivered with drivers for Windows 98(se)/ME/XP/2000, Amiga OS4, and for Mac OS X at a later date. MorphOS drivers are available for a surcharge.
The Catweasel MK4 will be available starting october 2004.
The target retail price is 99,- EUR.
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| Announcement: Technical data of the new Catweasel MK4 : Comment 435 of 469 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Stefan Burström on 22-Jul-2004 06:57 GMT | In reply to Comment 431 (Johan Rönnblom):
>Well I have, there was a list of resellers posted here on ANN some
>months ago of resellers who have bought boards directly from bPlan.
Right. Come one! That's as much marketing effort as Amiga Inc has
been doing for the past 2 years. (Ie. next to nothing)
Now, I'm not really sure what your theory really looks like here. You
believe that bPlan gets a secret funding for these boards, per unit
sold, even though they are not sold through Genesi? Frankly this seems
highly conspiratorial to me. It's one thing if you think Genesi buys
the boards at an overprice from bPlan, takes a loss and sells them for
a lower price. That would be kind of nutty, but possible. But then it
would be insane for bPlan to sell the boards at a lower price directly
>to dealers. Unless Genesi were still somehow secretly involved in
>those sales, too. Which makes no sense at all frankly.
Well, below you are also supporting the idea that Genesi may be
fundinf bPlan. Well, if they don't need to fund bPlan, why care at
all? After all, funding a company usually pays off in the ende
where as paying an overprice usually doesnt'. Guess which way I was
thinking this would work???
> As long as he [Bill McEwen] keeps his mouth shut regarding IBrowse,
> I don't have anything to complain about.
>So you're saying that you don't care what McEwen does, and that you
>have no problem being associated with him, as long as it's not
>directed towards you personally? Even if it's blatantly illegal? Or
>what are you trying to say here? Doesn't seem like you've read what
>you're replying to, here.
Sigh! You are incredible! You have twisted and turned every word around
that I have written without _any_ intention whatsoever to understand
what I mean. You are just doing this for the sake of proving me wrong
even if it comes at the price of proving a missunderstanding wrong.
What I meant was that I personally don't care ie am not going to spend
2 seconds on whatever McEwen does. It is simply not worth it! Whatever
good or bad he has done for Amiga and Amiga Inc. is his business and
I have no intention whatseover to get into a discussion defending him
or accusing him because that is a loose loose situation. Others can do
that if that pleases them. HOWEVER, if he drags me into such a
discussion with IBrowsee, THEN I will most likely have comments.
Until then, he is perfectly able to take responsibility of his own
actions (don't get me wrong on this one too). And I don't need to
explain to you whether or not I like them to make myself credible? Agreed?
>had less funding, they had problems keeping their position, and bPlan
>decided to find other customers too. Again - not supportive of your
>"symbiosis" theory.
From bPlan's point of view, why wouldn't they want to find as many customers
as possible from the very start?
Shall I spell it out for you? When the whole Thendic-France thing appeared,
all of a sudden the supply of Pegasos boards dropped. It may have been a
coincidence or not. But hey, that's what I am basing my 'theory on'
Besides, you support it yourself below too :-)
> Since you don't know how bPlan is financed, you cannot prove
> anything with that argument. What if bPlan is finaced with VC money
> coming from Genesi?
>I'm sure they are, or have been. At least that's the impression I got.
Lol! And then you don't understand 'symbiosis'. Well, lets see we have
(possibly) company funding another. We have the other company producing
products which the first company is marketing and selling (to ShopIp)
That's what I meant by symbiosis, it wasn't any more complicated than
that.
>theory that there would be something fishy going on - you prove it.
Well, you proved it for me. (or at least made it likely)
>Anyway, just because AmigaInc were financed by one Pentti Kouri, who
>interestingly became a big player by fooling Finnish banks and
>ultimately the Finnish taxpayers of several hundred million FIM,
>doesn't mean they are somehow in symbiosis with dr Kouri. In fact, it
Never heard dr Kouri selling Amiga Incs products or seen him writing here
on ann that AmigaDE is way better than Symbian or anything else incredibly
stupid. However, I have seen certain Genesi representatives here. See the
difference?
> You do know what BOM stands for, right?
>Presumably you mean the MBOM rather than the EBOM. But let's just call
>it cost of materials, as I've done thus far, as I really see no reason
>to exclude those readers who aren't comfortable with these terms.
>Though I can't help the feeling that you're not really trying to
>communicate, but that your aim is rather to cause confusion.
I have been speaking of the cost of the components and BOM in several
posts, so I figured you'd learned the word by now. It was just a check
to see if you had. Sorry if you took it as an offence. And btw, yes
to be more specific, it is the BOM that I am refering to, ie just the parts.
>I'm deliberately refusing to let you get away with the fact that out
>of the *two* parameters you've told us as basis for your estimate of
>the Pegasos PCB cost, both were significantly wrong. I'm sure you can
>write several pages about how PCBs are made. It might even be
>interesting. But it's not very relevant here and it's pretty obvious
>that you insist on talking about this just to change subject.
If you had been more carefull with your reading you would have notcied
that one of the estimates was spot on if you include the margins I gave.
>Now, I may not know such a lot about PCB design or manufacturing, but
>I do know that the size and the number of layers does matter quite a
>lot. I've never questioned that you know more about PCB design than
>me, this has never been at issue. The only thing I've questioned is
>your guess of the Pegasos PCB cost, which was obviously flawed.
Hehe, yeah and you so coveniently forgot to point out that I didn't
mention the 2 other needed PCB's to build a Pegasos.
> Well at the same time you didn't understand that a PCB has 2
> outermost layers, one on each side, and used that as an argument
> against me.
>I did *what*? Quote me, please. I'd much prefer if you read what I
>write before you answer. I've claimed that it's cheaper to do PCB
>design in Europe than in Taiwan? I've claimed that PCBs do not have 2
>outer layers? Really? Quote me or stop these silly claims.
Now you really owe me an appology, because here is the qoute:
(I hade to put 2 messages back together since you so conviniently left out
the important parts)
>>>> 6 or 8 layers I'd guess.
>>> Six, I think it has been stated, at least not more.
>>Ok, say 6 then.
>>>> Microvias between layer 1-2 and 7-8 to be able to route the BGA's.
>>>There's no layer 7-8..
>>Duh! You don't understand how funny you are! If you have microvias between
>No. There is no layer 7-8, period.
I guessed between 6-8 layers and you say I overestimate??? The lower limit
was spot on. Then I was refering to the outerlayers and instead of writing
"layer 7-8 or layer 5-6 depending on the amount of layers" I wrote layer
7-8 in hope that people would understand that I was refering to the outermost
layer. You gave me no credit whatsoever for assuming that 6 was correct,
instead you are talking about "You made a guess, but you were wrong".
Well, mr Rönnblom, neither of the guesses 6-8 or that the PCB has an
outermost layer was wrong. You are just twisting my words in hope that
someone will forget what I wrote. Besides as I have said I based the price
on a 6 layer run as I have said before but you seem to forget about that all
the time because that is something you cannot nitpick on!
>I'm quite sure that they only did such changes if it was economical.
Yeah, and to fix the SDRAM interface :-)
>> Note however, that these G3 cpus were bought 2 years ago then, when
>> wern't exactly cheap.
>Well, that's what we're talking about anyway, as you insist on
>discussing the Pegasos 1.
I insist on it because I am not claiming that the Pegasos 2 is subsidised.
Simple eh? This whole subsidised story started with the Pegasos 1 and
back then I supported it and did some homework.
>I assume you mean my "stock of G3s" theory. Well no, this seems hard
>to prove, I agree. But if we don't see any more 600MHz units in the
>future, I think it would lend my theory some support.
Right, but otoh, the prices of those CPU's will probably drop even
further so it may be economical to keep selling those boards with
new cpu's.
> Esp since I based the cost on a 6 layer PCB. But due to your recent
> nitpicking [..]
>Fine, let's assume you did suggest the price for a 100 insq board
>with 6 layers, rather than 8. Is it nitpicking to point out that you
>were wrong about these basic factors? Please. As you're not telling
Since you obviously never saw the 'Ok, say 6 then.' qoute from me I can
only assume that you are nitpicking.
> So by you failing to understand the basics of PCB desin, you figure
> I am wrong?
>understand the "basics of PCB design" or not? Unless you want to claim
>that the "basics of PCB design" somehow dictate that no 6-layered
>63sqin PCB can ever be produced below a cost of $300, it doesn't help
I never said that the PCB alone would cost more than $300. But hey, I am
getting used of you misqouting me.
>Ah. So now you say that you made such calculations, but you lost them.
>Or?
I started building a BOM way back yes. I guess I still have the draft
somewhere on my old A4K. I never got that far as checking prices for
the more advanced chips though.
>For the PCB cost, you claimed "more than $100", but for a PCB size
>which was significantly wrong. Well, you do your own work, I'll scale
>it linearly down to "more than $63" for now. For the CPU, you claimed
63 USD sounds too low for that kind of PCB. But hey, that's just my
sense on the subject with my experience take it or leave it.
>"less than $200". For connecors, you claimed "around $1-5 / piece"
>from a certain vendor. But that didn't really sound like the minimum
>price, rather it sounds like the first price you found. I'm also not
Given someone who designs electronics, don't you think that I look at
the right place right away :)
Digi-key is like Elfa. You find most parts there and they can supply
you quickly, but they may not have the cheapest price. (But may be
the only one selling to you in sub 1000 numbers)
>sure exactly which connectors you were talking about, how many they
>would be. Let's say 10 connectors at $2 each for our minimum estimate.
There are 3-4 PCI connectors, 1 AGP connector, Backplate connectors,
2 sdram connectors, 1 cpu module. The CPU board -> CPU module connector.
The CPU module -> mainboard connector, ide connectors. Well, just
have a look at the pictures on the net and you'll see. Oh, well, then
you might also realize that the mainboard isn't the only PCB that needs
to be payed for when producing the board. There are 2 more boards.
I guess we are getting closer and closer to my 100 sq inch estimate
the more we look at it :-)
>Well. To support your theory, you know need to show that all those
>costs we put into X are larger than or equal to about $218. Before
>you've done this, all your talk about PCBs really doesn't do anything
>to prove your statement.
I started out with the PCB to get a starting point of the discussion.
You obviously didn't want to start there since you obviously are afraid
of the answer. Instead you started nitpicking on things you have no
clue about and corrected a few things. However, you forgot to correct
the obvious fact that there are 3 PCB's involved (not counting the April
one though) when making a Pegasos incl CPU. My guess whas that the PCB's
alone would be around 100USD which is a claim that I still stand by. And
I find it hard to believe that a board like this would have a PCB with
a cost of 1/3th of the total BOM.
I see no point disucssing this further than the PCB with you though
since you obviously don't even want to TRY to understand. But if you
are interested, you can start looking up prices for all the caps
on the boards. (I won't count them for you because you will get to
me for that one too I guess)
rgds,
Stefan |
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