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[Rant] Site & domain namesANN.lu
Posted on 08-Feb-2000 10:56 GMT by Christian Kemp16 comments
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Just a small rant from me about the domain and site names some people are chosing for their amiga-related homepages. I just noticed that amiganation.com is calling itself AmigaNation News. Now it may just be a bizarre coincidence, but I feel like its creator could have been a bit more creative when registering that domain name and naming his website.

First of all, there has been a site called AmigaNation for years now. And even if that site is in German and has a Swiss domain, that doesn't mean that somebody should rush out and register exactly the same name in a different domain.

Secondly, it sure feels strange that AmigaNation News sounds awfully similar to Amiga Network News, and naturally shares the same initials (which are in bigger type, so it looks even more obvious). Just a coincidence? You decide.

But this wasn't the first time something like this happened. Amiga Central registered a domain even though Paul Morabito's "Amiga Central" had been online for months, if not years before, and had been quite popular. Now I seem to remember that this was a misunderstanding, but still...

If somebody (don't remember who it was) can threaten to sue Colin Thompson for using the very generic name "Daily Fishwrap" for his former Amiga news site, I wonder how people can even think about using exactly the same name for a site that fits exactly the same niche in a very narrow market...

Anyway, enough ranting and/or complaining from me. What do you think? Do you agree with me, or do you think I am way off here?

Site & domain names : Comment 1 of 16ANN.lu
Posted by Mario Saitti on 07-Feb-2000 23:00 GMT
Hi Chris, I noticed this too. When Amiga Central appeared I thought is was Paul's site until I went there. Not sure what happened there but I thought it was very underhand.
On the other hand remember, there aren't that many names you can actually use, although I must admit capitalising the ANN is pretty low. Write them to wipe it out. It may be a misunderstanding and will at least let you know why it is done.
Mario
Site & domain names : Comment 2 of 16ANN.lu
Posted by Bob C. on 07-Feb-2000 23:00 GMT
Like your site have been very impressed by the work you have done. Thanks!
With the Amiga Looking Stronger and more viable with each passing moment more people will try and jump on "the band wagon" I agree with your concerns!
Bob C.
Site & domain names : Comment 3 of 16ANN.lu
Posted by John Block on 07-Feb-2000 23:00 GMT
It is infuriating especially when the small guy can do nothing. The same with pretty much any type of site. To protect yourself you have to register varients, just in case that risky venture actually enjoys some success and someone decides to try and cash in.
At least it is not as bad as amazon.fr, amazin.com and etoy.com!How would it be if someone did an ann.com?
Site & domain names : Comment 4 of 16ANN.lu
Posted by Christian Kemp on 07-Feb-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (John Block):
> How would it be if someone did an ann.com?
As a matter of fact, the com/org/net domains were already taken for ANN. But
none of these three had anything to do with the Amiga, or at all with
computers, for that matter.
But it starts to get really fishy when in a small market, where it is possible
to know every major site, suddenly one site arrives that has the same name,
the same layout, or the same concept than a site that was already established
for a very long time.
Now I'm all for competition, but whenever people are making their products
stronger by using an existing site's design, name, image, or recognition, I
tend to get just a bit angry and disillusioned.
Site & domain names : Comment 5 of 16ANN.lu
Posted by Adam Szymczak on 07-Feb-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Mario Saitti):
Nor is comforting when an Amiga based site promotes a non-Amiga web browser ad nausem. From the Amiga Nation News site:


"This site is best viewed at 800x600 resolution or higher
with a frames-enabled browser, such as Netscape
Navigator 3.0 or higher. Should you want Netscape,
click on the button below to download it for free."


For the time being Christian I would not be too worried about Amiga Nation News. It appear to be nothing more than a place for James Russell to repost articles he has written for other sites. That does not sound like news to me ;)

Site & domain names : Comment 6 of 16ANN.lu
Posted by Steinar on 07-Feb-2000 23:00 GMT
I felt very bad of this, and visited the AmigaNation site
and told him he has lack of imagination when choosing
a site name with initials ANN.
There is only one ANN and it's your's Christian.
No doubt about that.
Regards
Steinar (Rocambole)
Site & domain names : Comment 7 of 16ANN.lu
Posted by the man in the shadows on 07-Feb-2000 23:00 GMT
I think that it is just me... but isn't mockery the highest form of flattery?
ANN will always be ANN... James' site that he has is always a great reference from amiga.org. Besides, isn't James part of that team now anyway?
Site & domain names : Comment 8 of 16ANN.lu
Posted by Colin Thompson on 07-Feb-2000 23:00 GMT
Christian,
Actually I am thinking of starting up a new Amiga News site. I'm gonna call it Amiga Network Fishwrap News.
Then I can get sued by both MIT _and_ you.
Colin
Site & domain names : Comment 9 of 16ANN.lu
Posted by Elliott Olson on 07-Feb-2000 23:00 GMT
Though not as bad, this reminds me of the confusion between the White House's www.whitehouse.gov and the porn site www.whitehouse.com which I saw mentioned on the news a few times.
Site & domain names : Comment 10 of 16ANN.lu
Posted by Jay on 07-Feb-2000 23:00 GMT
Don't worry, Christian... :) I read your site nearly daily. Another site won't win me over just 'cause it has the same acronym.
It's unfortunate that site has the same initials. But, that's all it is... there are many things A.N.N. can stand for. Here are some I know: Amiga Network News, Amiga Nation News . . . Alternative News Network, Advanced News Network, Artificial Neural Networks... hundreds more, I'm sure.
Site & domain names : Comment 11 of 16ANN.lu
Posted by John Block on 07-Feb-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 9 (Elliott Olson):
Obvious satirical comment in reply unnecessary!
Site & domain names : Comment 12 of 16ANN.lu
Posted by Plain English on 08-Feb-2000 23:00 GMT
What does this matter?
I thought this site was for news related to Amiga.
Site & domain names : Comment 13 of 16ANN.lu
Posted by anonymous coward ;-) on 08-Feb-2000 23:00 GMT
One article I felt had real journalistic quality...
-----------------------------------------------------------------
TRANSMETA'S CRUSOE ROCKS
1-30-2000: After the long, long wait, the revolutionary new Crusoe
processor is out. Yes it makes Pentium look like yesterday's
garbage, and I wouldn't have it any other way. With what the
Crusoe TM5400 can do with notebook computers, I tend to think
the higher end TM5400 processors (700 MHz and above) would
kick ass in desktop systems, too. Hell, for $650 or so you could
have two!
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Oh dear. One of the bad things about the Internet is any untalented fool
can post clear articles based on analysis and familiarity with the subject
matter. I dont think there is much competition here...
Site & domain names : Comment 14 of 16ANN.lu
Posted by James Russell on 08-Feb-2000 23:00 GMT
First of all, my site doesn't use an acronym. I have never, EVER referred to my site as ANN, and actually on my own bookmarks I refer to it as AN, because if you look AmigaNation is one word.
Second of all, at the time I registered the domain I had never seen Amiganation OR heard of your site. The fact is that I don't care much about Classic, it's a dead market and Phase5 is proof of that, and thus Amiga.com and Amiga.org are all I really bother with, stopping by occasionally Czech as well, since they seem pretty good at posting the latest stuff. I actually was getting to like this site, too, until I started getting hostility from it for no real reason. The first time I visited your site was actually about a month ago. Actually, when I found the german page, I e-mailed the Webmaster to apologize and asked if we might affiliate. He blew me off. Ce le vie.
Third, I consider my site more of a news magazine, as I don't update it often and largely I write my own stuff, including the articles on the patents, etc., whereas sites like this and AO (where I'm editor-in-chief) merely post briefs, with sites like Czech Amiga actually just coming by and swiping the brief verbatim. I don't do that. I don't post any news from here, or from AO, unless it's very Amiga-future centric and unless I write the brief up myself. If you want to be hostile about something rather ignorant like that -- sorry, AmigaNation News has very little in common with Amiga Network News. You, like AO and Chezh, post briefs of the latest Amiga news. I write my own articles, and post my own briefs when I think they are relevant. I actually do more work for AO now than I do for my own site. I never intended to compete with AO or sites like it, merely to make a kind of zine with my own opinions. I don't know database stuff and don't care to, and don't care enough about Classic news to want to compile it.
By your theory, the The New York Times and The New York Post should start bickering just because they have similar titles. You don't by any means own the words Amiga or News. If you want to know how I came by my title originally, it was because AmigaWorld I knew was taken and that IDG might go after me at some point if the market came back in any case, and later to my horror when I saw AmigaNation already existed I slapped the News on there to differentiate myself and my site -- after the guy blew me off. In any case, if you don't like my articles, feel free not to visit my site -- or e-mail me with petty stuff like this. I happen to think my site has some cool stuff to offer, I'm sorry if you don't agree. In any case it's merely a hobby, I do most of my work for AO and it'll remain that way.
Site & domain names : Comment 15 of 16ANN.lu
Posted by Christian Kemp on 09-Feb-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (James Russell):
First of all, my site doesn't use an acronym. I have never, EVER referred to my site as ANN, and actually on my own bookmarks I refer to it as AN, because if you look AmigaNation is one word.
This might be the case, but then again why do you use a larger type for the "A" and the two "N"s in your logo? While it may not have been intentional, it sure creates the impression that you want people to pay more attention to those three letters. You might argue that this is just a design matter, which is a valid point, but in the end what matters is not what you intended with your site but what others think when they see it.
Second of all, at the time I registered the domain I had never seen Amiganation OR heard of your site. The fact is that I don't care much about Classic, it's a dead market and Phase5 is proof of that, and thus Amiga.com and Amiga.org are all I really bother with, stopping by occasionally Czech as well, since they seem pretty good at posting the latest stuff. I actually was getting to like this site, too, until I started getting hostility from it for no real reason. The first time I visited your site was actually about a month ago. Actually, when I found the german page, I e-mailed the Webmaster to apologize and asked if we might affiliate. He blew me off. Ce le vie.
You didn't get any hostility from me. I was posting a rant, my personal opinion, that's all. And I would think that you should like a site because you think the layout is good, or the content, or both, but not because of the webmaster's personal opinion, which he may only express once every few months. It's "c'est la vie", by the way.
Third, I consider my site more of a news magazine, as I don't update it often and largely I write my own stuff, including the articles on the patents, etc., whereas sites like this and AO (where I'm editor-in-chief) merely post briefs, with sites like Czech Amiga actually just coming by and swiping the brief verbatim. I don't do that. I don't post any news from here, or from AO, unless it's very Amiga-future centric and unless I write the brief up myself. If you want to be hostile about something rather ignorant like that -- sorry, AmigaNation News has very little in common with Amiga Network News. You, like AO and Chezh, post briefs of the latest Amiga news. I write my own articles, and post my own briefs when I think they are relevant. I actually do more work for AO now than I do for my own site. I never intended to compete with AO or sites like it, merely to make a kind of zine with my own opinions. I don't know database stuff and don't care to, and don't care enough about Classic news to want to compile it.
I don't consider you as a competition and my rant was not at all intended in that way. What I didn't like, and what made me write this rant, was that it seemed to me like you were inspired by not only one, but two sites when you named your site, and all I criticized was a lack of creativity.
By your theory, the The New York Times and The New York Post should start bickering just because they have similar titles. You don't by any means own the words Amiga or News. If you want to know how I came by my title originally, it was because AmigaWorld I knew was taken and that IDG might go after me at some point if the market came back in any case, and later to my horror when I saw AmigaNation already existed I slapped the News on there to differentiate myself and my site -- after the guy blew me off. In any case, if you don't like my articles, feel free not to visit my site -- or e-mail me with petty stuff like this. I happen to think my site has some cool stuff to offer, I'm sorry if you don't agree. In any case it's merely a hobby, I do most of my work for AO and it'll remain that way.
By my theory, if some hardware manufacturer named itself "International Bureau Machines" and sold PC's, or if somebody registered ibm.lu and sold PC's on there, it would be IBM's right to be pissed off. I think this example is much more valid than yours. "New York Times" and "New York Post" would compare to "Amiga Times" and "Amiga Post" - which seems like two intirely different things. But as soon as two names share the same abbreviation, or the same domain name, I believe that things are slightly different...
I never implied that I owned the words "Amiga" or "News", far from that. If you had read my rant more carefully, you would have noticed that the difference between our site names was just a secondary point, and that my main point was rather the way you and amigacentral.com registered domain names that were already in use for other sites; and that in a market as small as the Amiga, it would have been very trivial to check whether any site already used a site title like that.
With all that written, I think it is interesting to point out that you were the one to talk about "hostility" and take a defensive attitude. After all, I had just made an observation. I did not ask you to change anything. I just voiced my own opinion on my own site, but it seems you read more into the few lines than I had intended to say.
So if I offended you in any way, or if you feel I wrongly accused you, please accept my apologies. I never intended it that way.
Site & domain names : Comment 16 of 16ANN.lu
Posted by James Russell on 09-Feb-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (Christian Kemp):
"why do you use a larger type for the "A" and the two "N"s in your logo?”
Because I think Amiganation looks stupid without the capital N.
“You didn't get any hostility from me. I was posting a rant, my personal opinion, that's all.”
Firstly, the term "rant" infers a hostile attitude, or at least attitude, to start. Second, you might have come to me first rather than me having to find out your opinion from one of your postees who e-mailed me with a rather unpleasant post. I do like your site, but again, you should have ranted to me FIRST, so that I could have set you straight and not had to read through a bunch of postings bashing my site, on yours.
“It's "c'est la vie", by the way.”
That’s fine, I was in the middle of a rant. What can I say?
“I don't consider you as a competition and my rant was not at all intended in that way."
Maybe I percieved as such because of the below statement?
“I wonder how people can even think about using exactly the same name for a site that fits exactly the same niche in a very narrow market...”
What I didn't like, and what made me write this rant, was that it seemed to me like you were inspired by not only one, but two sites when you named your site, and all I criticized was a lack of creativity.”
Such was not the case in either fashion. Again, I had never seen either site you refer to at that point. I saw the .com domain was still available and snagged it, because a .com is the biggest of any domain. Only later did I discover the .de or whatever the other is.
AmigaNation is not that hard to come up with on your own, especially when looking for an alternative to AmigaWorld, if you think about it. I think there’s actually about 4 or 5 of them now, not just two. Luckily, as I said, I tacked on the “NEWS” to differentiate.
“But as soon as two names share the same abbreviation, or the same domain name, I believe that things are slightly different...”
When gaining the rights to a .com domain, why should that person be obligated to go through all nearly 200 possible thisthisthis.de, thisthisthis.uk, thisthisthis.ca to make sure someone else doesn’t have it on an obscure country domain? Mostly people are concerned with the big three, .org, .com, .net, and this was the case with me. And again, I don’t use an acronym at all. Actually at one point I did, on my site I would have a little graphic that said AN (red A, black N) at the end of every story. Two words, two letters. AN
“domain names that were already in use for other sites; and that in a market as small as the Amiga, it would have been very trivial to check whether any site already used a site title like that.”
Again, there are nearly 200 different country domains in this world, and I was very inexperienced in Web creation/etc. in any case. This was nearly a year ago now and I have learned a great deal -- including that there are more than just three domains per name.
“With all that written, I think it is interesting to point out that you were the one to talk about "hostility" and take a defensive attitude. After all, I had just made an observation. I did not ask you to change anything. I just voiced my own opinion on my own site, but it seems you read more into the few lines than I had intended to say.”
Again, ranting has hostile connotations to start. And you called me uncreative. Anyhow, it certainly didn’t help reading the above postings bashing my site and the things I say on it, though granted that wasn’t you, I know, and you did SORT OF leave open that it could have been a “bizarre coincidence.”
The fact is that I believe my site is one of the few that actually has large, original articles (such as the illustrated patent articles) that set it apart from others, and do try and have journalistic quality (NOT THAT YOUR SITE DOES’NT). I’m still unclear what was wrong with my Transmeta brief quoted above, but again that wasn’t your post, just a reply to it. Recently I've taken my site further still to try and resurrect a Netscape port to Amiga.
“So if I offended you in any way, or if you feel I wrongly accused you, please accept my apologies. I never intended it that way.”
Apology accepted. Peace, out.
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