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[News] First New Boxer Pic...ANN.lu
Posted on 19-Mar-2000 13:08 GMT by Christian Kemp29 comments
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Tony Gore writes: I haven't seen this yet in any other posts. There is a picture of the latest Boxer design complete with 4 PCI slots and Dual USB ports, all in ATX form! Looks nice. I can't seem to find that G3/G4 PowerPC connector it claims to support, but I'm sure it's there somewhere.
First New Boxer Pic... : Comment 1 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by Henrik Mikael Kristensen on 18-Mar-2000 23:00 GMT
Mick sure seems to be working hard on this one. It's just a bit of a downer that PC-hardware development goes faster than Mick can keep up with.
It's understandable: Learn about new technology. Implement it on motherboard. Testing, debugging and more testing. Finally! It works! Oh, now it's been replaced y something newer and better. :-(
An AGP port would be SO nice to get the latest and cheapest graphics cards out there. PCI graphics cards are getting rarer and more expensive.
And now there is PCI-X. How about that one, Mick?
First New Boxer Pic... : Comment 2 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by Björn Hagström on 18-Mar-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Henrik Mikael Kristensen):
No more updates. Let him get the card out. Save updates for a future
version. Those waiting for the BoXeR has waited enough.
First New Boxer Pic... : Comment 3 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by szutoman on 18-Mar-2000 23:00 GMT
Please no more updates to the motherboard!!!!!Lets get something out now while there are still people interested. Great Job to Mick for having the balls to see this project through despite all the bashings he has had to endure from the Amiga community!!!(-: Hopefully by AmiWest 2000 there will be a product to show and sell.
First New Boxer Pic... : Comment 4 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by Manny Jesus on 18-Mar-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (szutoman):
I would have like to see some Zorro and Amiga Video slots in there in addition to the PCI slots. Remeber in order to use PCI cards you need Amiga support from vendors, It would be nice to stick a Picasso or CV64 3D in there and get going. I would also like to stick my Video TOaster and Flyer setup in one of these setups .I almost placed an order for this a year ago I'm glad I didnt. I hope this one see's the light of day.
First New Boxer Pic... : Comment 5 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 18-Mar-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (Manny Jesus):
: I would have like to see some Zorro and Amiga Video slots in there in addition to the PCI slots.
Didn't you read the specifications? There IS an Amiga Video slot on the board. There is also a
connector that makes it possible to add 2 Zorro3 slots as an option. No zorro as standard though.
I am quite happy with that. Since the board is ATX size, there would simply not be enough physical
room to include both 4 PCI slots, some zorroslots, and everything else on the board. And PCI beats
zorro by far!
: Remeber in order to use PCI cards you need Amiga support from vendors,
Well, amiga hardware developers (if there are any left) could allways design their own PCI cards. PCI is SOOO much
better than zorro. Or someone could port some drivers from linux (or even better - make a deal directly with the
manufacturers) to make it possible to use allready existing PCI cards.
The two USB ports are just great. Hope they will remain in the final version of the board.
But the lack of AGP is a major disadvantage. That is the only negative side in this product, as I see it.
First New Boxer Pic... : Comment 6 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by Daniel on 19-Mar-2000 23:00 GMT
The Boxer will be useless if it dosent have a A3000/4000 CPU Slot, how about all the users that have Phase5 PPC Cards and will pre-order AmiJoe PPC Cards, where are we going to put them?, I think the Boxer should have a CPU Slot, for existing amiga users to upgrade.
First New Boxer Pic... : Comment 7 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by Tony T on 19-Mar-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (Anonymous):
From comment 4:
: I would have like to see some Zorro and Amiga Video slots in there in addition to the PCI slots.
From comment 5:
: Didn't you read the specifications? There IS an Amiga Video slot on the board. There is also a
: connector that makes it possible to add 2 Zorro3 slots as an option. No zorro as standard though.
: I am quite happy with that. Since the board is ATX size, there would simply not be enough physical
: room to include both 4 PCI slots, some zorroslots, and everything else on the board. And PCI beats
: zorro by far!
I agree with you. That sure looks like an Amiga video slot way over on the left. It's certainly
_not_ an ISA slot. As far as Zorro 3, _I_ only need _one_ to hold the Flyer card that is going
to go into _my_ Boxer system :)
First New Boxer Pic... : Comment 8 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by Lee on 19-Mar-2000 23:00 GMT
Indeed the absence of an accelerator slot for existing PPC cards,
and the soon ot come AmiJoe's is a TRAGIC mistake. Also, I CANNOT
use my Sunrize AD516's in PCI slots either. :/ Ok..so the option
is there. Hopefully it will actually work, as I can live with that
but no accelerator slot kills this thing for me at this point in
time.
First New Boxer Pic... : Comment 9 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Benedetti on 19-Mar-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Daniel):
Why ? You can take only the 040/060 CPU from your CPU-Card and put it on the
BoXeR.
First New Boxer Pic... : Comment 10 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by Plain English on 19-Mar-2000 23:00 GMT
I know this is knit picking, but wouldn't it be better to have a pure PPC machine with all the latest slots 'n stuff.
Many users in here have commented on the lack of PPC support and AGP support, is this really the best option?
How about a new operating system on PPC or x86 or Alpha, running a new OS (Linux or something, my personal choice) EMULATING the classic Amiga. Now good people own the source and Amiga Inc. surely a properly developed emulator could be every bit as good as the original and even better, which would also bridge the gap between the old and the new (and it is old), allowing for development into the NEXT generation not the previous.
I know this sounds a lot like the Apple way of things, but it worked for them, eventually...
First New Boxer Pic... : Comment 11 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by cYB0rG on 19-Mar-2000 23:00 GMT
68k family is old now, why keeping it on the motherboard ?!
First New Boxer Pic... : Comment 12 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by Phill Wooller on 19-Mar-2000 23:00 GMT
If you can't find the power pc upgrade socket try counting the number of dimm sockets (remember the specification says it will take two dimm's).
First New Boxer Pic... : Comment 13 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by Darron Cox on 19-Mar-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (Phill Wooller):
Yes it was a good one wasnt it but as we can all appreciate Mick has really gone to town on the new Revision. If you need to compare the old Prototypes to the new one take a peek at the BoXer Supoprt Site.
Theres quite a few new features on this revision but i will have a new mapped out diagram of the board with conmplete labelling asap on the site.
BoXer Site: http://CoxD.tripod.com
Mailing List to come soon
Sorry for the blurb!
First New Boxer Pic... : Comment 14 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 19-Mar-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Daniel):
A A3000/4000 cpu slot would be a serious bottleneck. And cards like amijoe isn't just a processorcard. It also adds motherboard-like features, such as PCI and USB. Thats great for A4000 users, but completely unnecessary for a boxeruser since these functions allready exists on the boxer mainboard. It will only add cost. The boxer only needs the PPC processor, and it WILL have its own PPC connector, which will make a PPC solution much more affordable and without bottlenecks.
First New Boxer Pic... : Comment 15 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 19-Mar-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (Plain English):
As the specifications say, you WILL be able to configure the boxer to run PPC only, IF the 68k processor is properly emulated. And you will be able to configure it to be 68k only, or 68k + PPC. You chose configuration according to your needs and wants. I like that!
First New Boxer Pic... : Comment 16 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 19-Mar-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (Anonymous):
Actually it will work on the premises of the PPC card being installed and the Haage and Partner 68k emaul will work within the Flashrom. Ahhh the beauty of a 2meg Flash.
Of course AROS PPC would make a nice solution till we/if we ever see a PPC Native AMiga OS. Then again by the time all this gets done the BoXer will hopefully be running TAO OS.
First New Boxer Pic... : Comment 17 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by Laurent on 19-Mar-2000 23:00 GMT
If you are looking for the boards expansion capabilities, look at
those pins in the middle of the board. There are 2 sets at least 4
pins wide. They don't look like setting jumpers to me. Anyone seen
that setup before? Remember it is a prototype.
First New Boxer Pic... : Comment 18 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by Plain English on 20-Mar-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (Anonymous):
Sounds nice, but why is there still 68k support?
First New Boxer Pic... : Comment 19 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 20-Mar-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (Plain English):
The Amiga is 68k based, and lots of people still doesn't want to emulate the 68k on a PPC processor.
First New Boxer Pic... : Comment 20 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by Francisco on 20-Mar-2000 23:00 GMT
UMM!!!And what about a transmeta chip emulating 68K.Transmeta chip are cheap, faster,
and low power consumition.imagine a boxer with transmeta chip socket, there will be
the fastest amiga ever, and today for today de AMIGAOS and most programs are 68k or have
68k versions, so this programs outperform a PPC ones on a 68k 600 mhz emulated on transmeta,
in speed and price.And after all no need for port amigaos for ppc any more
GREAT IDEA, ISN´T IT
First New Boxer Pic... : Comment 21 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by Fabio Benedetti on 20-Mar-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (Laurent):
And what about the two identical connectors placed in the lower part
of the motherboard ?
First New Boxer Pic... : Comment 22 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by Laurent on 20-Mar-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 21 (Fabio Benedetti):
I thought those were the IDE or floppy ports.
First New Boxer Pic... : Comment 23 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by Plain English on 20-Mar-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (Anonymous):
Who gives a crap about using the 68k when a proper emulator would beat it at every turn?
Re-inventing the wheel AGAIN, when the rest have gone into the Space Age.
Is this really the future of Amiga, is this what the Amiga Community want?
Don't think I'm being sinical but I just don't get it.
First New Boxer Pic... : Comment 24 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by Brad Jacobsen on 21-Mar-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (Francisco):
The only problem with your transmetta idea is that transmetta stated that they do not currently support 68k and don't plan to in the near future. :(
First New Boxer Pic... : Comment 25 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by Victor on 22-Mar-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 24 (Brad Jacobsen):
Yes, but there are rumors that there will be some Mac laptop with it, and so it's unlikely that they will port OS-X (or what?) to x86...
First New Boxer Pic... : Comment 26 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by Victor on 22-Mar-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (Anonymous):
Hey! Even if it's faster than the fastest 060? (Look at the amijoe pages, they state the even the first, little optimized version of the emulator will be very fast on the _G3_, and later there should be G4's...)
First New Boxer Pic... : Comment 27 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by Mark S. Hone on 22-Mar-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 21 (Fabio Benedetti):
Matt Sealey (Neko) over on the Moo-bunny apparently got an e-mail from Mick Tinker that clarified some of the expansion issues on the BoXeR mobo. In summary:
- The 3 DIMM sockets are actually 2. The 3rd DIMM socket is intended to be the PPC connector
- The Zorro bus-board will be handled through a 10-pin serial connection (I think it's near the Amiga Video Slot on the board). Yes, that's 10 pins to hookup 2 x Zorro III slots - it's a fast serial connection!
Also, apparently Blittersoft are hedging their bets on whether USB remains in the final version.
First New Boxer Pic... : Comment 28 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by loic on 22-Mar-2000 23:00 GMT
A PPC motherboard with PCI and AGP already exist. It's the POP (PowerPC Open
Platform) project. It's a freeware hardware design give by IBM to promote the
PPC processors. This motherboard is ATX, use 133mhz SDRAM and use linux,
(only G3 for the moment, because IBM didn't want to promote the G4, but becoz
they want to sell a lot of dolphins [nintendo new console] they change their
mind). For the moment, you have only linux on it. For the moment, i didn't find
people who sell the motherboard, but becoz it's a free design, it will appear
soon. You can have UAE on linux.
But the boxer has got AGA compatibility, and an amiga video slot, so i think
it is better that it is 68k, if you want PPC, the hybrid solutions are not
the most efficients.
First New Boxer Pic... : Comment 29 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by jürgen on 22-Mar-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (Anonymous):
Well, isn't that nice? We don't even have 68K emulation available yet - an people don't want it ;)
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