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[News] AmigaZone's Fleecy IRC transcripts no longer openANN.lu
Posted on 30-Mar-2000 07:36 GMT by Christian Kemp89 comments
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bh posted to comp.sys.amiga.misc how he noticed that AmigaZone's Fleecy IRC transcripts will no longer be open to the public. A note on Amigazone's homepage says: Note!: Due to an agreement with Amiga Inc., future transcripts of chats with Fleecy will be posted ONLY in AmigaZone's own file library, accessible by members only. If you wish to participate in the live chats with Fleecy or read the transcripts, join AmigaZone as a paying member.
AmigaZone's Fleecy IRC transcripts no longer open : Comment 1 of 89ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Yoris on 29-Mar-2000 22:00 GMT
Well ... a bit frustrating but why not...
AmigaZone's Fleecy IRC transcripts no longer open : Comment 2 of 89ANN.lu
Posted by Michael Jantzen on 29-Mar-2000 22:00 GMT
Harv (and Amiga Inc.) can sometimes be real annoying :(. I wonder what the agreement is all about (if there is one). I can imagine Amiga Inc. calling up and saying "hey we had an agreement that you'd only make those transcripts availble to paying customers" - yeah right.
Michael Jantzen ^_^
AmigaZone's Fleecy IRC transcripts no longer open : Comment 3 of 89ANN.lu
Posted by Desmon^ on 29-Mar-2000 22:00 GMT
What makes AmigaZone so good that they get the transcripts and one has to PAY to read 'em?
AmigaZone's Fleecy IRC transcripts no longer open : Comment 4 of 89ANN.lu
Posted by cYB0rG on 29-Mar-2000 22:00 GMT
Paying to chat !!! (or read chats) --- LOL
You are now logged on. Enjoy ...
AmigaZone's Fleecy IRC transcripts no longer open : Comment 5 of 89ANN.lu
Posted by Spudley on 29-Mar-2000 22:00 GMT
If there's any big news coming out of those chats, you can be sure it won't stay secret for very long.
All we'll be missing out on are the opportunity to read all those interesting snippets such as "watzywuly has joined the chat" and such gems.
AmigaZone's Fleecy IRC transcripts no longer open : Comment 6 of 89ANN.lu
Posted by Firebird^ on 29-Mar-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (Desmon^):
Bah to the evil AmigaZone!!! They are evil and they smell of milk!!!
Who's running that place anyway, Cooksey? ;)
AmigaZone's Fleecy IRC transcripts no longer open : Comment 7 of 89ANN.lu
Posted by Martin Baute on 29-Mar-2000 22:00 GMT
Usually I am not of the profanity kind, but...
Who the FUCK do they think they ARE?
Security cannot be the reason if those chats still take
place.
Hey, AmigaZone, have you ever thought of the majority of users
who wouldn´t have ANY benefit from joining AmigaZone except those
chats? I have an ISP, I already bought almost every piece of
Amiga software there is, and I don´t have the time to read their
portal because I am pretty busy at amiga-news.de.
I wonder why Fleecy agreed with such a "deal". What he has to
say is of MAJOR interest for ALL Amiga users! "You have to pay
to recieve news" - what kind of policy is that?
AmigaZone's Fleecy IRC transcripts no longer open : Comment 8 of 89ANN.lu
Posted by John Block on 29-Mar-2000 22:00 GMT
If Harv has been monitoring visits to the transcript page, it is probably a
respectable number. There is some amiga advertising activity and Harv is
choosing to miss out.
AmigaZone's Fleecy IRC transcripts no longer open : Comment 9 of 89ANN.lu
Posted by Its not of your business on 29-Mar-2000 22:00 GMT
My god!!!!!
I have nothing against Harv. After all, he is doing his
business. But...
It is fair that chatting is only available for members.
I can stand the log being publicly available one or two
weeks after the chat.
But...
This is the straw that breaks the camel's back. Amiga Inc.
should be more open to the users, we, what we have stuck
with the Amiga in dark times.
I can only hope Amiga to reconsider this decision, or at
least explains this bad move. And if he give some exclusive
news in the chat, I hope he will do the same in an open
forum asap.
It is obvious that I am not going to subscribe to Amiga
Zone NEVER and Fleecy can put the chat logs in their
###-holes.
AmigaZone's Fleecy IRC transcripts no longer open : Comment 10 of 89ANN.lu
Posted by Nian on 29-Mar-2000 22:00 GMT
You have to be Kidding,
These bastards think that they can force people to pay
them just to read news and info about Amiga.
Well they know where they can shov it.
AmigaZone's Fleecy IRC transcripts no longer open : Comment 11 of 89ANN.lu
Posted by Plain English on 29-Mar-2000 22:00 GMT
Wow, they know how to draw a crowd.
It's like getting a leaflet through your door selling double-glazing only to find out that if you open the letter you have to pay the postman for the privilege.
WHAT A DEAL! !-o
Bring em on, I've got to go now and cut off my hair for the privilege of wearing a wig.
AmigaZone's Fleecy IRC transcripts no longer open : Comment 12 of 89ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 29-Mar-2000 22:00 GMT
how f"cked up is this???? harv really i never thought you would do anything
like this it is a propriety like microsoft move to make things exclusive to
people who r in that boys club and f"ck everyone else off. shouldnt what
amiga inc _our_ parent company as _we_ are why they exist today let us
know whats going on??? why shrowd it in a vail of secrecy??? this is a load
of bullsh"t and i think its an outrage. i just hope they come to their senses
soon or i will personally help get people who are members of amigazone to
redistribute logs of the chat anonymously via irc so _us_ the userbase
get to find out about what our company is doing. i am so dissapointed and
annoyed at this trickery and deception.u
AmigaZone's Fleecy IRC transcripts no longer open : Comment 13 of 89ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 29-Mar-2000 22:00 GMT
What news? Anyone here still believes that AInc will deliver something? Nah...
AmigaZone's Fleecy IRC transcripts no longer open : Comment 14 of 89ANN.lu
Posted by Bob Washburne on 29-Mar-2000 22:00 GMT
Let me see if I have this right...
-) The Amiga Zone is a commercial, paid subscription on-line service which
offers its members, amongst other things, a private chat room.
-) The Amiga Zone went out and got Fleesey Moss to agree to join their chat room
for a few minutes on the last Wednesdak (note Y-to-K spelling!) of each month.
-) For the last two months one of the AZ members volunteered to transcribe the
discussion. This was then made available to all members.
-) AZ, via the incarnation of Harv, then decided to allow these fruits of the
paid AZ members to be made public. Nice gesture.
-) And now AZ is saying, "OK, this was/is supposed to be a member's thing. If
you would like to join in, then join."
My questions are...
1) What's the big deal? It's a commercial service and the whole point is to
provide special benefits to the paying members.
2) What's the big deal? I've read the two released transcripts and there were
no great revelations. Neither was there a surfeit of insitefull questions.
Several times the moderator was asking, "Come on, doesn't anybody have any
questions?"
3) Just what do you think is going to be revealed here which won't come out the
next day in a press announcement? All of the major questions have been answered:
=) Amiga, inc. are going to leapfrog the technology rather than just patch up
the Amiga Classic. Apple did this when they introduced the Mac rather than the
next Apple ]I[z. Noone complained. Commodore did this when they introduced the
Amiga rather than the C=256. Noone shed a tear.
=) A transition path will be suported to protect the hardware and software of
the current machines.
=) We know what the engine will be (Tao).
=) There will be significant developer support.
=) There will be user community support.
=) Amiga, Inc. have enough VC to keep them afloat for three years. Our spending
habbits will determine whether they stay in business longer.
The rest, as they say, are just details.
AmigaZone's Fleecy IRC transcripts no longer open : Comment 15 of 89ANN.lu
Posted by Pierre Narcisse on 29-Mar-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (Bob Washburne):
I absouletly agree those transcripts really said nothing new!!! In fact the moderator is always begging ppl to ask the tough questions like what cpu or hardware will you support or who are the other major parntens and what major software house will be in our conner. I don't really think this should effect us at all the transcripts provided no real source of major info. When Amiga Inc. delivers of if they don't we will all no about it.
AmigaZone's Fleecy IRC transcripts no longer open : Comment 16 of 89ANN.lu
Posted by Mike on 29-Mar-2000 22:00 GMT
This thread HAS to have the largest number of idiot cry-baby lunatics I've ever seen outside of USENET! I mean, you are complaining because Amigazone is not GIVING AWAY FOR FREE THE BENEFITS OF ITS PAID SERVICE!!! Do you also complain because you have to buy newspapers, magazines, and milk at the grocery store?!?
The real crap is that you'd be the same morons who'd be the first to complain if you did belong to a paid service and they started giving away all the perks for free. "Why should I bother paying", you'd say.
Ugg, get over it, and quit being such skin flints. Either you pay for a service, or you don't get it, the same with everything else in life.
Mike
AmigaZone's Fleecy IRC transcripts no longer open : Comment 17 of 89ANN.lu
Posted by Ed on 29-Mar-2000 22:00 GMT
Come on people! This is getting rediculous.
Everyone knows that the all important answers to questions like:
What's Fleecy's favorite toothpaste?
or
How often does Fleecy wear a sweater?
Are under the strictest non-disclosure agreement. (with his wife)
AmigaZone's Fleecy IRC transcripts no longer open : Comment 18 of 89ANN.lu
Posted by Harv on 29-Mar-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Michael Jantzen):
The story is this - Fleecy told me, after the 2nd chat, and when I phoned him to confirm the third one was on schedule for last night (due to the closeness of the St. Louis show, I wasn't sure he'd be available or not) that Bill had asked him to stop doing them.
I asked why. He said because the transcripts (two posted publically at http://www.amigazone.com) were causing a furor. He suggested I contact Bill and find out if we could reach a compromise.
The next day I had a phone conversation with Bill. He told me that after Fleecy had mentioned, in the second chat, that a certain prominent Amiga developer had been hired, that he, Bill, had gotten over 200 phone calls and emails asking to talk to the guy, saying things like "He owes me money.. he has my hardware" and so on.
I asked Bill what it would take to keep the Fleecy chats going for AmigaZone members. He said that not posting public transcripts, but posting them only for AmigaZone members, in our own library, would take care of it. That's the agreement we reached, and that's what has been done. The first two transcripts are still on the home page, but no more will be posted there.. all future transcripts will be posted in the AmigaZone's own library, with no re-distribution permitted. It's as simple as that.
We all want the flow of information to be free and plentiful. Go to the Amiga Show in St. Louis and ask Bob Scharp to let you into the floor and all the seminars for free and see how long he laughs.
These resources cost money to run. AmigaZone costs money to run. There's an investment in hardware, maintenance, personnel, network facilities, hard drives have to be replaced (the system is up 24/7 and has been for years).. that's why membership costs money. If there's no AmigaZone, then Harv goes out to wash cars or flip burgers, it's as simple as that.
So sorry some of you feel that I'm pulling some kind of a stunt. It's no stunt. It was done at the explicit request of Amiga's President.. I wanted to keep the Fleecy chats going for our membership, and this is the only way it could be done. If you don't like this explanation, I'm sorry. You only get the truth from me, and that's the truth.
As I've said for years - AmigaZone costs $12.95/month. The Fleecy chats, the
huge file library with tons of stuff that's not on Aminet and never will be,
the message bases, the nightly live chats, the prize contests, all of this stuff is what members get for their lousy forty cents a day.
When you find a bookstore that gives away books for free to anyone who walks in.. when you find a movie theatre that'll let you in for free every day of the week.. when you find a record store who will let you walk out with as mny CDs as you want for free, please let me know.
Harv Laser
Founder and Sysop of The AmigaZone.
AmigaZone's Fleecy IRC transcripts no longer open : Comment 19 of 89ANN.lu
Posted by Harv on 29-Mar-2000 22:00 GMT
Well I posted after reading comment #2. Now having read all of them, I think there's a couple that understand what's going on.. the rest are just infantile rantings from people who expect every shred of information they get anywhere to be 100% free all of the time. Well to you folks I say, good friggin luck.
You want ink for your printer, you buy it. You want a newspaper dumped on your doorstep every morning, you pay for it. You want gas in your tank, you pay for it.
I wrote hundreds of articles for over a dozen commercial (glossy / print / newsstand) magazines for many years. I've been archiving and uploading all of those articles and sticking them in AmigaZone's library as another benefit to my membership.
I mean.. get real.. I have to give paying members _something_ they can't just get for free, or there'd be no membership, there'd be no AmigaZone, and it'd just be another pleasant memory on the trash heap of Amiga history. Where do you think all the Amiga magazines went? Whey did they all go out of business?
People think it's kewl to copy software instead of buy it. Software makers' sales drop to nothing. They have no income. They can't afford to advertise. They can't even afford to travel to a show and buy a table and pay for a hotel room. Magazines lose ad revenue, which is where the bulk of their income comes from. The printing company says "your issues are ready, we'll deliver them to you soon as we have your $75,000 check for the printing costs." Goodbye magazine.
This has happened over and over and over again.. but some of you simply don't get it. A commercial venture has to offer something to its paid subscribers that they simply can't get somewhere else. For an online venture like AmigaZone, into which I have poured my heart and soul and guts for over 15 years to keep it going, through the good times and the bad times, well people who are willing to pay to be a member of it get stuff that people who refuse to pay for anything don't get.
Again, I invite all of you to visit St. Louis this weekend, ask for Bob Scharp, the head of the show, and say "Lemme in for free" and then come back here and tell the world what an asshole he was because he wanted you to pay to get into the show. Ask the show hotel for a free room and see how fast the desk clerk calls security to throw you out the door after he finishes laughing.
It really grinds my gears to work on something for years and then hear people pissing and moaning because they can't have all of its content for free. Thanks for making my morning such a pleasant one :/
Harv
AmigaZone's Fleecy IRC transcripts no longer open : Comment 20 of 89ANN.lu
Posted by redrumloa on 29-Mar-2000 22:00 GMT
Oh come on now people GET REAL! Get a freakin life! Reality check! AmigaZone is not a place for secretive press releases!!!! The chatroom meetings with Fleecy is no different than attending a banquet and having to pay the "per plate" charge to get in! If you want to rub elbos with an executive from a company, pay up! Why do you think you can get a transcript for free? Harv is going to edit and post a transcript out of the goodness in his heart? Time is money and he is running a buisness. If you don't go to a private banquet you don't expect a free transcript to show up! Lastly Amiga Inc is not stupid, if they have major ground breaking news they will have a press release.
BTW-I am NOT a member of AmigaZone. I have considered joining, and the bonus of being able to rub elbos with an Amiga Inc executive is a incentive. If *YOU* want some kind of FREE service SET IT UP YOURSELF, GET FLEECY TO JOIN AND MAKE THE TRANSCRIPT AVALABLE FOR FREE TOO. Too much work to do for free eh?!? Than don't knock Harv for charging for his service.
sigh.. To all those I've offended, TOUGH. I'm annoyed at all the bashing Harv is getting for no damn reason.
Jim
AmigaZone's Fleecy IRC transcripts no longer open : Comment 21 of 89ANN.lu
Posted by not cooksey on 29-Mar-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (Harv):
1) It is a shame a few twerps ruin it for everyone else. I believe that the downfall of Gateway Amiga was because Jim Collas gave away too much under the pressure of the noisy few.
2) The second irc should have had "do not call or this will be cancelled" warnings.
3) The irc chats did have useful titbits in them - eg: run anything in the digital universe
4) The audience is international, many Americans think the US is the world.
5) I think you are more rock and roll and would flip cars and wash burgers.
6) The giveaway society you mention is already happening on the net - free downloadable books, music and film just starting. More creative means of funding like ads or sponsorship are used.
AmigaZone's Fleecy IRC transcripts no longer open : Comment 22 of 89ANN.lu
Posted by Spudley on 29-Mar-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 21 (not cooksey):
re (5) - wash burgers... hehehhehegiggle. :-)
re (4) - international audience: This is an interesting point. Being in the (y)UK, I won't pay for things in dollars unless I absolutely have to. So I'm going to miss out on forthcoming chats. That's life, I guess.
And now seriously....
The point here is not that Harv wanted or didn't want to offer it free; it's that he was asked not to.
And the reason for that is not because Fleecy gave away any trade secrets; it's because of the details - he mentioned a name in passing, and it caused chaos.
The devil is always in the details.
Finally, your point about advertising is a good one. But ask Christian Kemp (ANN) how much you can make from advertising, and I think you'll find that it's not really as much as you'd think. You need a seriously high-volume web site for advertising to work. Anyway, when the discussions were open, they got posted to every other site on the web, emailled to everyone, and so on - people didn't necessarily go to AmigaZone to see it. Now they have to, maybe advertising would work, even if the audience is smaller.
To me though, the biggest shame of this whole thing is that people are posting here without thinking through the issues. I'll bet that in most cases, they didn't even go to the AmigaZone web site to find out the reasons why - they just post their $50 worth. They also completely ignore the pleas at the top of the posting form: "Please do not use any abusive language or swear words". Come on guys. :-(
AmigaZone's Fleecy IRC transcripts no longer open : Comment 23 of 89ANN.lu
Posted by Colin Wilson on 29-Mar-2000 22:00 GMT
I consider this stance offensive if they wish to restrict publicly accessible IRC channels to a paid members only service.
All I hope is that someone with sense also makes their own logs of the chats and makes them freely accessible to all.
Yours disgruntled,
An offended Amiga owner / user / potential purchaser
AmigaZone's Fleecy IRC transcripts no longer open : Comment 24 of 89ANN.lu
Posted by John Waller on 29-Mar-2000 22:00 GMT
I hear that one of the hardware features of the "New Amiga" is a Prozac dispenser.
AmigaZone's Fleecy IRC transcripts no longer open : Comment 25 of 89ANN.lu
Posted by redrumloa on 29-Mar-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (Colin Wilson):
It is *NOT* a public IRC channel it *IS* a private "CHAT-ROOM" in the same sense that AOL has private chat rooms. If you want into an AOL chat area you:
A:Pay for AOL's ISP (and own a PC btw) or
B:Use another ISP and *PAY* for BYOS (Bring Your Own Service - ISP)to get into AOL's member chat rooms and other areas.
AmigaZone offers the same thing as B above. They do not section off an area on IRC and block access with shot-guns:)
Jim
AmigaZone's Fleecy IRC transcripts no longer open : Comment 26 of 89ANN.lu
Posted by Jonny Johansson on 29-Mar-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (Harv):
Harv wrote:
-Where do you think all the Amiga magazines went? Whey did they all
-go out of business?
A-hah! It's YOU! They couldn't stand up against your competition - you evil you!
;))
AmigaZone's Fleecy IRC transcripts no longer open : Comment 27 of 89ANN.lu
Posted by Bob Washburne on 29-Mar-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (Harv):
Thanks, Harv, for clearifying the issue.
But there are two questions burning on everyone's mind and many of us are on a
student's buget which can't afford many "luxuries" such as a private chat room
with Fleesey.
So we are asking, nay-begging you to please let the answers to the following
questions leak out and into this thread.
We understand that you may have to keep anonimity. So just use any name and
email address to respond. No matter what the name says, we'll know it's you,
Harv.
Question 1: Fleesey: Boxers or Briefs? And don't avoid the question!
Question 2: Harv: Is it true what Responce 6 said about you? Are you truely
evil and smell of milk?
I am sure that you will respond shortly, using someone's name, and that I will
be able to rest peacefully again.
Thank you. Sincerely.
AmigaZone's Fleecy IRC transcripts no longer open : Comment 28 of 89ANN.lu
Posted by Lon on 29-Mar-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (Harv):
:As I've said for years - AmigaZone costs $12.95/month. The Fleecy chats, the
:huge file library with tons of stuff that's not on Aminet and never will be,
:the message bases, the nightly live chats, the prize contests, all of this :stuff is what members get for their lousy forty cents a day.
I have no problem with AmigaZone running a business and attempting to make a profit. More power to you, Harv. My question, though is what exactly does the AmigaZone offer that can not be found elsewhere for "free"? What exactly is in your file library that will never be on Aminet? How are your message bases better than comp.sys.amiga.*? I can chat on IRC anytime I want(never have, but I assume there are Amiga chats). Contests? This is why I don't subscribe to AOL- yes they have lots of 'exclusive' content, I guess, and maybe its neatly organized, but I can find similar stuff out on the Internet for free. Now these chats with Fleecy, now that is something unique and has value. That is the kind of thing that might convince me to subscribe to AmigaZone. Why give it away for free?
AmigaZone's Fleecy IRC transcripts no longer open : Comment 29 of 89ANN.lu
Posted by Samuel S. Johnson on 29-Mar-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 28 (Lon):
One of the reasons to join AmigaZone, imho, is that it is populated by those who care enough to pay for access.
Thus, the quality of discussion is much higher than on IRC, where there is no such threshold.
AmigaZone's Fleecy IRC transcripts no longer open : Comment 30 of 89ANN.lu
Posted by papasmurf.org on 29-Mar-2000 22:00 GMT
This seems perfectly logical to me - he is not running a charity, and he needs to insure some money actually comes in, no?
AmigaZone's Fleecy IRC transcripts no longer open : Comment 31 of 89ANN.lu
Posted by acGREGORY on 29-Mar-2000 22:00 GMT
IT'S OK TO HAVE TO PAY FOR INFORMATION....NOW THAT THE NET IS FREE, WE
PAY FOR IT BY VIEWING BANNERS, ADDS, ETC...
IT'S OK FOR ME THAT AMIGAZONE IS ASKING PEOPLE TO PAY FOR CHAT INFO.
USUALLY THE INFO WILL GET OUT ANYWAY ONCE SOMEONE WHO HAS PAID, TELLS
SOMEONE ELSE WHAT WENT ON....
LET'S NOT BE TOO RIDICULOUS BY ASKING EVERYONE TO WORK FOR FREE....
AmigaZone's Fleecy IRC transcripts no longer open : Comment 32 of 89ANN.lu
Posted by Harv on 29-Mar-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (Colin Wilson):
Colin Wilson said:
Quote
I consider this stance offensive if they wish to restrict publicly accessible IRC channels to a paid members only service.
End of Quote
I will explain this one more time and I will even shout. AMIGAZONE IS NOT AN IRC CHANNEL. IT IS NOT A PUBLICALLY ACCESSIBLE IRC CHANNEL. It is an online service connected to the net for which one pays a monthly membership fee, and its live chats take place in its own proprietary live chatting area - no Java, no Javascript, no plug-ins, no other non-Amiga crap required. Anyone anywhere in the world can join, be a member, telnet in and chat on literally ANY kind of computer right down to little hand-helds. It is NOT an IRC CHANNEL.
All clear yet?
Harv
AmigaZone's Fleecy IRC transcripts no longer open : Comment 33 of 89ANN.lu
Posted by Harv on 29-Mar-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (Colin Wilson):
Colin Wilson said:
Quote
I consider this stance offensive if they wish to restrict publicly accessible IRC channels to a paid members only service.
End of Quote
I will explain this one more time and I will even shout. AMIGAZONE IS NOT AN IRC CHANNEL. IT IS NOT A PUBLICALLY ACCESSIBLE IRC CHANNEL. It is an online service connected to the net for which one pays a monthly membership fee, and its live chats take place in its own proprietary live chatting area - no Java, no Javascript, no plug-ins, no other non-Amiga crap required. Anyone anywhere in the world can join, be a member, telnet in and chat on literally ANY kind of computer right down to little hand-helds. It is NOT an IRC CHANNEL.
All clear yet?
Harv
AmigaZone's Fleecy IRC transcripts no longer open : Comment 34 of 89ANN.lu
Posted by Colin Wilson on 29-Mar-2000 22:00 GMT
I still think it`s a poor show Harv...
So maybe I misunderstood the original "concept" you had, but I still think it sucks...
Oh, and my original post must have been at a very busy time for posts - when I started to type, I was about to be the 12th message...
I don`t think you`ll get many UK users paying for a US ISP they can`t use (care to prove me wrong ?)
AmigaZone's Fleecy IRC transcripts no longer open : Comment 35 of 89ANN.lu
Posted by Mike on 29-Mar-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 34 (Colin Wilson):
*I still think it`s a poor show Harv...
I still think you don't know what the hell you're talking about Colin :)
*So maybe I misunderstood the original "concept" you had, but I still think it *sucks...
Then you're contradicting your earlier post. And you still don't understand the concept that this is a private network in the first place.
*Oh, and my original post must have been at a very busy time for posts - when I *started to type, I was about to be the 12th message...
So what if your opinion hasn't changed?
*I don`t think you`ll get many UK users paying for a US ISP they can`t use (care to prove me wrong ?)
You are truely thick. Go to the Amigazone main page (ANN links to it). There they explain, as was explained above, that Amigazone IS NOT AN ISP. However, there are MANY WAYS TO ACCESS IT all around the world. Hell, you can even get a 2 week free trial.
That way, dopes like you can use it for two weeks, download every file you could ever want, drop it, and then smugly say something like "I've used them for everything they're worth to me and didn't have to give a penny in return. I'm so smart, screw them".
AmigaZone's Fleecy IRC transcripts no longer open : Comment 36 of 89ANN.lu
Posted by Marek Pampuch on 29-Mar-2000 22:00 GMT
It`s OK to pay for information. Yes - I agree (and with banners on AZ site too).
So I have a proposal for Chris:
Let register Harv Laser as a member of ANN (for 12,95 USD per month:))))
but ... only Harv
AmigaZone's Fleecy IRC transcripts no longer open : Comment 37 of 89ANN.lu
Posted by Harv on 29-Mar-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 34 (Colin Wilson):
Colin Wilson had more to say.. this time it was:
Quote
I don`t think you`ll get many UK users paying for a US ISP they can`t use (care to prove me wrong ?)
End of Quote
Okay, now that I've explained it's not IRC, I suppose I have to explain again that it is not an ISP. It is a value-added service. Y'know.. like Playboy's Cyber Club? If you want the content in there, you pay a fixed fee per month until you decide you don't want the content in there anymore.
AmigaZone can be reached through any ISP in the world, from anywhere. I have customers in Korea, Japan, the U.K., Germany, Puerto Rico, Mexico, South Korea, and other places.
You have a local ISP account. You dial in and connect. Once your net connection is established you either run a telnet client and telnet to amigazone.com or you run a browser and browse to http://amigazone.com for the Member's web interface. Both serve the same content. You can reach it from anywhere in the world with any kind of computer.
You can sit in the middle of the jungle in Brazil and wirelessly connect to a dialup UNIX shell account and telnet to amigazone.com on a Palm Pilot if you want to. (That's the most extreme example I could think of off the top of my head).
You don't have to be a USA resident to use it.
AmigaZone is hosted by CalWeb Internet Services (http://www.calweb.com), an ISP based in Sacramento Calif. They handle AmigaZone's accounting and biling. They own the hardware on which it runs. I am four hundred miles away from them. But I could just as well be 10000 miles away from them. It simply doesn't matter where you are. It is accessible to anyone, anywhere, with a net connection to their local ISP account.
Members who join have the option of ALSO joining CalWeb and getting a 10 meg UNIX shell account with web hosting they can telnet and ftp into. This is not a requirement. Most of my members don't have that option. Many of them do. This is all explained at http://www.amigazone.com my publicity site.
Click the "Join Now" button with an SSL-enabled browser and look at the signup page. It won't cost you anything to look. You won't be forced to sign up. No addresses are harvested from it, and no spam is sent to those who look at it. It's there. Just look.
Again, in the immoral words of Richard Milhous Nixon, I hope I have made myself perfectly clear. :)
Harv
AmigaZone's Fleecy IRC transcripts no longer open : Comment 38 of 89ANN.lu
Posted by KenH on 29-Mar-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 35 (Mike):
I really think you have cause to be smart and arrogant Harv. You are no doubt a good businessman, so don't ruin it all by being dragged down. Your professional image and business could suffer.
AmigaZone's Fleecy IRC transcripts no longer open : Comment 39 of 89ANN.lu
Posted by Pierre narcisse on 29-Mar-2000 22:00 GMT
Harv thanks for the explination I think that is all we were looking for. Now that we know that you were asked by Amiga inc. President it is understandable. I for one agree that yes you should pay for informationof that type. If you don't want to then know one is forcing you to. NOTHING in life is free except the love of GOD! so to everyone give Harv a break we now know why. if you don't want to subscribe to Amigazone then you should not be allow to see the exclusive chats. If you want access to these chats then Pay. Go tell Microsoft to give you win2000 for free or Aol's steven cats to give you an Amiga owner free aol and see how far you get. So now lets give Harv a break and move on.
AmigaZone's Fleecy IRC transcripts no longer open : Comment 40 of 89ANN.lu
Posted by Michael Jantzen on 29-Mar-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (Harv):
My only complaint was that lame ass excuse "Due to an agreement with Amiga Inc., future transcripts of chats with Fleecy will be posted ONLY in AmigaZone's own file library"
My only question is - did Amiga Inc. really make an agreement with you/amigazone?
Michael Jantzen ^_^
AmigaZone's Fleecy IRC transcripts no longer open : Comment 41 of 89ANN.lu
Posted by Mike on 29-Mar-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 40 (Michael Jantzen):
OK, go back, read the posts in this thread, and try again!!!
(He gives a very detailed description of the 'lame ass excuse' you deride)
AmigaZone's Fleecy IRC transcripts no longer open : Comment 42 of 89ANN.lu
Posted by Dave Rosseter on 30-Mar-2000 22:00 GMT
I can't help to think that most of this thread is wasted breath...
A) even Without a request from Amiga to no longer post the chats publically, they are Still (C)Amigazone. AZ can do whatever they want with them. Case closed.
B) Any "Earth Shattering" news will be made available through standard news sources, and, if there is any news of that much impact, you will hear it via these other channels first anyway because of the 2 week release delay.
The only value I see in the transcripts is to get a feel for Fleecy the person, not Fleecy the business man..
The value others are hoping for seems to be accidentally leaked information that can cause rampant speculation throughout the Amiga community. Frankly, lack of production from the past regime of Amiga owners, coupled with rumor that became castles in the sky, Amiga users helped set themselves up for dissapoitment after dissappointment.Admit it, we all have...
I suspect that rumor control is Amigas #2 priority, right behind getting the company together and the kit out as quickly as possible.
It seems some of you may be pairing this decsion to some sort of Orwellian media control, It really isn't..
Some of you seem to see this as an Amigazone recruitment stunt..give-em a taste and make-em pay for a bite..I doubt it. The Amiga community is currently small, and rather proactive. If Harv were to pull such stunts, it would probably cost him more users than it buys him. Im certain he is aware of that.
(No.. I am not an Amigazone customer..I purchased a historic house and had a baby with my wife within the last year, no cash for extras.. :( nothing against AZ, Harv, Fleecy or anybody else )
The 1st of April is coming soon.. we have waited for years, we can wait a couple more days.
AmigaZone's Fleecy IRC transcripts no longer open : Comment 43 of 89ANN.lu
Posted by Michael Jantzen on 30-Mar-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 41 (Mike):
Okay - I've read all of his comments (thats twice now) - and I agree it does clear up a lot of mis-information, it however still doesn't say why Amiga Inc. would have made an agreement with anyone (or am I missing something?) to close off chat sessions. Why would harv have to make an agreement? Why pin it on Amiga Inc? Its HIS network as he's so fond of pointing out.
Personally if I was someone at Amiga Inc. I probably wouldn't agree to a chat session (wether it was on compuserve or a private irc channel or Amigazone.com as they have been with former Commodore/Amiga people) unless other Amiga users were going to be able to read it as well eventually - for PR purposes.
Michael Jantzen ^_^
AmigaZone's Fleecy IRC transcripts no longer open : Comment 44 of 89ANN.lu
Posted by DMAC on 30-Mar-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Firebird^):
Cooksey....................bwahahahahahahahahahahaahah(rofl).Good one
AmigaZone's Fleecy IRC transcripts no longer open : Comment 45 of 89ANN.lu
Posted by Harv on 30-Mar-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 40 (Michael Jantzen):
Michael asked:
Quote
My only complaint was that lame ass excuse "Due to an agreement with Amiga Inc., future transcripts of chats with Fleecy will be posted ONLY in AmigaZone's own file library"
My only question is - did Amiga Inc. really make an agreement with you/amigazone?
End of Quote
One word answer: Yes.
Harv
AmigaZone's Fleecy IRC transcripts no longer open : Comment 46 of 89ANN.lu
Posted by Brad Jacobsen on 30-Mar-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 43 (Michael Jantzen):
It seems the genie has already been released.
Now, can you imagine the PR that Amiga Inc would receive by completely pulling the plug on the Fleecy Chats? Amiga-land is fully populated with chicken littles.
AmigaZone's Fleecy IRC transcripts no longer open : Comment 47 of 89ANN.lu
Posted by John Waller on 30-Mar-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 40 (Michael Jantzen):
Isn't that what he just said????????
AmigaZone's Fleecy IRC transcripts no longer open : Comment 48 of 89ANN.lu
Posted by Gerald Gibbons on 30-Mar-2000 22:00 GMT
Go for it Harv! Will I see any of you in St. Louis? After a 9 hour drive I'll be ready for the banquet! My son and I had a really great time last year! But I really need a new computer this year! I've got to have a tool which works better on the Internet. After the show I'll be ready to subscribe to the AmigaZone.
AmigaZone's Fleecy IRC transcripts no longer open : Comment 49 of 89ANN.lu
Posted by Kevin on 30-Mar-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (Samuel S. Johnson):
Sam has it right. As one of those paying Amigazone members, and as one that
has spent innumerable hours on usenet and IRC (not in Amiga groups--why go
there when you have the Amigazone?), I can say that the level of discourse
(not to mention courtesy) on the AmigaZone is far beyond those others.
The live Fleecy chats have been a real rush. It's not that there are any
secrets being told; Amiga Inc. isn't working that way. But you can get a
first-hand at they way Amiga is thinking and what they are trying to accomplish.
And if you don't like what they are doing, you can say so right there!
I've followed the Amigazone from the early People Link days, to Portal and now
to its home at Calweb. A tremendous (boggles the mind) amount of effort has
gone into a consistently high quality product in content and organization.
Harv can talk better than I about exclusive content on the Zone. I just know
that whatever I need, I can find and if I can't find it, I can just ask Harv
where it is. A month of AmigaZone is less than three Chicken Bacon Swiss
combos at Arby's and it's far less fattening.
AmigaZone's Fleecy IRC transcripts no longer open : Comment 50 of 89ANN.lu
Posted by Lee Bosch on 30-Mar-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Michael Jantzen):
The agreement is real and it was at the request of Bill McE. The March
chat had initially been cancelled and after Harv's pleading, the chat
was allowed to go on with the proviso that it would only be made
available to Amigazone members in transcript form. Fleecy reiterated
that this was a precipitate of those who would "sound bite" the
transcript and make lots of noise out of context. If anyone else can
promise that this kind of information doens't get scattered to the wind
and blown all to hell, I'd bet that Bill would be more accommodating.
I participated in this discussion as I've been an Amigazone member for
many years. There wasn't much there that was given away but many of the
participants got some answers.
If you think your bodily wastes don't stink, feel free to set up a more
public forum and ask Amiga Inc. to come by and answer some questions.
Until then, attend shows and read official press releases *OR* shut your
festering gobs.
If you have a complaint, address it to Bill McEwen. He's the one
calling the shots. If you'll recall, Harv was making the information
widely availble up to this point.
Lee Bosch
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