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[Motd] Oh well. :(ANN.lu
Posted on 17-May-2000 20:24 GMT by Christian Kemp25 comments
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Guess what, another of my former sponsors is refusing to pay... I just finished a reply to answer their ridiculous claims, but frankly, I'm sick and tired of all of this. I didn't put thousands of hours into this project to be cheated on every possible occasion.
Oh well. :( : Comment 6 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by Chris Spicer on 16-May-2000 22:00 GMT
There are too many dodgy companies operating in the Amiga market these days.
Given that Amiga Inc have pledged to help out developers and distributors,
perhaps you should drop them a line and let them know what kind of people
they're dealing with.
Oh well. :( : Comment 7 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by Hagge on 16-May-2000 22:00 GMT
We need e-mail addys so we can complain =)
Oh well. :( : Comment 8 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by Colin Wilson on 16-May-2000 22:00 GMT
Well, I mailed them, and got a response - whether Christian would like to make that email public I don`t know...
I have submitted it anyway :-)
Oh well. :( : Comment 2 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by Steve Dowe on 16-May-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (redrumloa):
I agree. Must it be that all things "Amiga" are unfair? There must be
justice, and breaking an advertising agreement deservers no respect at
all.
ANN is the premier news centre. Keep it up mate. ;)
Oh well. :( : Comment 3 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by XDelusion on 16-May-2000 22:00 GMT
I goto Ann.lu every freaking day, and find all this news disturbing, I would say definatly
expose these companies so I can make sure not to support them in the future, since
they obviosly don't give a crap about you, and for that matter the Amiga community!
Oh well. :( : Comment 4 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by roger b on 16-May-2000 22:00 GMT
Why don't you just ask for 50% before the beginning of the period, so
you at least have some security - they know how popular ANN is and
will also respect you more if you think more businesslike. It's a pity
there are so many good programmers etc on the Amiga scene with so
little business training that they let themselves be fooled. You must
remember that this is a market, not a community (Aminet's a community
but that's a completely different thing), so be cynical and demand!
Oh well. :( : Comment 5 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by John H Harvey on 16-May-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (roger b):
Christian,
I agree that a 50% up front would be fair. After all, any honest business should find that exceptable.Let us ALL know who the offending parties are. You have a great site. Don't get discouraged.
Oh well. :( : Comment 1 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by redrumloa on 16-May-2000 22:00 GMT
Who is it now? Let us know who it is. Bad companies need to be exposed for what they are, bastards. Speak up! Hang in there Christan. We(I) don't want anything to happen to this website.
Regards,
Jim
Oh well. :( : Comment 23 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by Rick Hodger on 17-May-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (Mark Wilson):
In reply to comment 10:
Mark, you aren't alone. Pagan Games was contracted to Sadeness at one
point, and thankfully they disappeared before we published anything.
But I know of another coder who lost a *lot* of money to them, and the
last we heard from Sadeness' owner (Richard Brown) was that he was
living off the other coder's royalties. Unfortunatly these people
exist, and lot of them seem to have the only intent of screwing other
people out of money.
The only thing people can really do, is to make sure they have a
signed, and legally binding contract. Yes, it will cost money to get
things like that checked out, but it does save problems. If someone
refuses to pay you have a legal right to take them to court, and proof
that they made an agreement with you.
Oh well. :( : Comment 19 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 17-May-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (Martin Baute):
Take a look at
http://www.paymentor.com
These guys look after payment problems for you. It gets a very favorable review in the Financial Times.
Oh well. :( : Comment 20 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by Dave Collupy on 17-May-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 9 (Mario Saitti):
Mario,
I'm curious about your "alternate" method to suing. Please email me.
Peace,
Oh well. :( : Comment 21 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by clash bowley on 17-May-2000 22:00 GMT
I tried posting this before, but it ended up in another thread! Here goes again:
Hey! What happened to Amorel's post and all the replys? Did you censor them, or did they get lost? Believe me, I hold that it's within your rights to do whatever you see fit to do,
Christian. this is *your* site. I'm not complaining, just curious.
clash
Flying Mice LLC
Oh well. :( : Comment 22 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by Christian Kemp on 17-May-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 21 (clash bowley):
Amorel's comment, as well as replies to it are in the item titled "Update".
I rarely censor, if at all. There's a bit of confusion with the multiple
threads across which this sad story of unreliable advertisers is spawning;
but apart from that I can see no reason for comments disappearing. Except
an (albeit unlikely) occurance of a newly discovered bug in the comments
script.
Oh well. :( : Comment 18 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by Martin Baute on 17-May-2000 22:00 GMT
Keep going, Christian. Don´t let these suckers drag you down.
And think about advance payment... I got myself tricked twice,
starting work without having a signed contract in hands. Did
cost me some thousand bucks in the end, and made me a lot more
carefully with promises... :-/
Cheer up, you´re doing a terrific job!
Oh well. :( : Comment 16 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 17-May-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (Nick.):
I agree - some of you dealers really are greedy bas**rds :-/
Oh well. :( : Comment 17 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by Jaeson Koszarsky on 17-May-2000 22:00 GMT
Welcome to the world of advertising. This doesn't just happen here.
I work in postproduction producing commercials for tv. We have our
share of clients the owe money too. I'm sure the same it true with
newspaper. I recommend that you get some amount up front and have
a solid contract made. Keep copies of all correspondence. Keep track
of the number of hits to that link. Screening your clients may be
helpful too. Talk to other people that they've advertised with. This
might help avoid deadbeats.
Unless the money owed is big, pursuit it court is often more trouble
than it's worth. I think that's one reason why clients think they can
get away with it. Maybe the most important thing is reputation. why
should I support a business that pulls this crap, unless they've got a
legitimate reason. Maybe they don't have the money but they should still
be communicative about the problem and work towards some kind of resolution.
Good Luck,
Jaeson K.
Oh well. :( : Comment 9 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by Mario Saitti on 17-May-2000 22:00 GMT
Hi Chris.
Damn I am sorry to have seen this happen to you again.
What has been forgotten imo is that you have a solid contract. A contract is made acording to the mode the offer and acceptance is in unless regulated by law such as is the case with the sale of real estate.
If the offer and acceptance were made by email and you can prove the authenticity of the relevant correspondance you have a legally binding, solid as stone contract which will be upheld in any court in the Western world. You do not need a signature unless it was a term of the contract.
Your sponsor has a reasonable period of time to meet their responsibility, (given by the court) upon which failure to meet said responsibility is a clear breach of contract.
If you wish to be particularly nasty, do not sue them. There is something similar but far more damaging:) Mail me and I'll explain. It's times like this that I am glad I read law before going into IT.
Mario.
Oh well. :( : Comment 10 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by Mark Wilson on 17-May-2000 22:00 GMT
I know how Christian feels, I was ripped off by Sadeness software who "Sponsored" the AmiBench Dealer Directory.
I never got any payment, All that I asked for was 4 copies of each cd they produced. When I tried to get it from them, they denied that they had ever had an agreement with me.
Ever since then I`ve been really fussy about allowing Commercial sponsorship on AmiBench.
It really shows the Amiga Retail Community in a bad light, even more so in the light of Christians comments.
Mark Wilson - Team Member of AmiBench
Web: http://www.amibench.org
Oh well. :( : Comment 11 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by Sam Dunham on 17-May-2000 22:00 GMT
Sue 'em. I hate that it'd come to that, but it looks as though it has.
I'd help ya out if I could (I certainly need the advertising), but I don't think that an ad on ANN would help my consulting firm in Charleston, SC.
Oh well. :( : Comment 12 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by Fab on 17-May-2000 22:00 GMT
First principle in Internet Business: get paid first, discuss after!
Oh well. :( : Comment 13 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by Felix Marcell on 17-May-2000 22:00 GMT
Solution:
1) Get Rebol (http://www.rebol.com)
2) Enter this command at the Rebol prompt:
loop 500 [send jerks@wherever.com "Pay Ann.lu NOW!"]
Bad guy receives 500 (or however many desired) messages.
(I claim no liability with this. Follow solution at own risk :) )
FelixM
Oh well. :( : Comment 14 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by Ryan Blackerby on 17-May-2000 22:00 GMT
Very sorry to hear another sponser is refusing payment of services rendered.
How much was the owed amount?
Oh well. :( : Comment 15 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by Nick. on 17-May-2000 22:00 GMT
I just simply cannot believe this. The market is banging its head against a brick wall alredy and certain pricks aren't paying up what is duly deserved. You have an agreement, you stick by it. Just because that is the Amiga market (what there is of it) doesn't mean that you can be a law unto yourselves. Call yourseleves supporters of the Amiga? Hah - you the twats killing it even more. I'd say these activities are doing more damage than Gateway did in three years...
Sort yoursleves out dealers, and pay up what is due!! Idiots, all of you bent, twisted, criminal dealers. The fact you support Amiga is not relevant because this makes your dodgy operations even worse, scum - PAY UP.... I do NOT want to see another site which i'd SORELY miss just because of you LOT (dodgy dealers) can't be arsed to pay up the fuc*ing money you owe. All because of your OWN personal GREED! This is a injustice to the principals of Capitalism - GREED has TAKEN OVER you illegit dealers, it's not just YOU all the time there is US as well.
Oh how I dispair - this won't make any difference what so ever because you haven't got the GUTS to do what you should have done. This infuriates me!!
Oh well. :( : Comment 24 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by Mark Wilson on 18-May-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (Rick Hodger):
I was gutted, I`d spent ages trying to find a sponsor I actually thought it would help make a difference to sadeness.
I told all the people who worked for AmiBench at the time that I`d got them these free cd`s which would be distributed between them, Any that were left over were to be used in quiz`s and so on. (Like I did with Paul Nolan and Photogenics!)
Sadly Sadeness didnt seem to know / understand / care about any form of marketing. Its no wonder they went bust.
The last I heard was his (Richards) Mother was fighting off debt colectors, a user of my local amiga usergroup told me he saw her on a car boot stall selling cd`s so she could try and keep her house from been taken from her.
Nasty.
Anyway. If anyone wants to sponsor AmiBench, draw some icons + new logo, let me know! :)
Cheers
Mark wilson : Team Member of AmiBench
Oh well. :( : Comment 25 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by Gary Peake on 19-May-2000 22:00 GMT
How is the advertising being billed? Is it by the page view or by the click-thru? If it is by the click-thru (as is standard), does your advertisers have the ability to view the number of click-thrus from their own ad account?
Anonymous, there are 25 items in your selection
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