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[Rant] AmiJoe / Met@BoxANN.lu
Posted on 19-May-2000 07:17 GMT by Christian Kemp56 comments
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Cybes writes: In an attempt to gain further information regarding the release date of the AmiJoe I have been in contact with a variety of places. Read more below. Blittersoft UK informed me that the units were ready and waiting on Haage & Partner (presumably for a license for the PPC 68k emulator+warpup). Bill Mc Ewen mentioned in a speech a short while back that they were working though with Met@box to lower the cost of the Amijoes to be around the 250$us or so mark by using as many standardized parts as possible. This still left the question of when it would come out so i then contacted met@box themselves, in which their international rep ("Susan") replied: "Please keep an eye on the website. I have no further info at present". Does anyone know anything more on this matter regarding its release?
AmiJoe / Met@Box : Comment 13 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by Mike on 18-May-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
-Wake up! The Amijoe hardware is simply NOT finished!
I assume you are refering to the A1200 hardware? What information are you basing that on. The poster you were responding to appears to have it straight from the horses mouth, so unless you can back yourself up with some verifiable sources, you're going to appear to not know what you're talking about.
I've never seen nor heard any verifiable reports of the H&P 68k emulator (that's the one you want them to use, right?) being 1) Complete 2) Faster than current 060's. From the rumors I've heard, it may reach @040 speeds, but it doesn't have the capability to store translated M68k instructions in memory, so it isn't going to get a whole lot faster unless you step up the processor power a HUGE amount, or you start caching instructions.
I would greatly welcome any verifiable information from H&P about these issues, but I doubt they are forthcoming. Common sense dictates that the only reason H&P isn't publishing info about a project they've supposedly devoted significant time to is that 1) The 68k emulation is incomplete and/or 2) it is so slow that they don't dare publish anything about it (in which case, they SHOULD go back and add in instruction caching, if they haven't already).
-And if Metabox is doing their own 68K emulation, I wonder where they suddenly --got the coders from.
There's plenty of them out there :)
-In any case, forget about running any Hyperion games then because most likely --they will introduce yet another PPC kernel.
Why do you say that? Unless you have some info about what they're doing that you'd like to share with us, I don't see any evidence to suggest it will be incompatible with WarpOS or anything else.
AmiJoe / Met@Box : Comment 15 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by XDelusion on 18-May-2000 22:00 GMT
Well my Amiga 1200 should be here in about 4 days, and having an 020 is really
going to suck ass, and I am sure as hell not going to purchase an old 68xxx CPU,
what is the point? My PeeSea is faster! If I do not see an AmiJoe soon, the 1200
is going back up for sale, and I am going to say,"so long" to the classic Amiga
hardware and purchase a freaking G4, at least that don't have IRQ's or BIOS, and
from what we are hearing, the new Tao/Amiga OS thing will run fine on it, not to
mention Linux, and QNX. No if we could just get people to stop comparing speed by
MHz, and start doing comparasons with something that really shows the commen consumers
the difference between Pintel, and Motorola... :O9
Other than that, I guess I alway have UAE, though I hate the shit out of it, damn
thing does not care if I have a 333Mhz AMD or a 55AMD, still seems to run like a
freaking 020, blah.... :O(
AmiJoe / Met@Box : Comment 14 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 18-May-2000 22:00 GMT
Hey guys! Don't be so negative! HW and SW development usually needs more time that it would need in an ideal world. Anybody ever developed something know this.
Although, 'Nov' is sounds badly...
AmiJoe / Met@Box : Comment 12 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 18-May-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (Ryan E. A. Czerwinski):
Wake up! The Amijoe hardware is simply NOT finished!
And if Metabox is doing their own 68K emulation, I wonder where they suddenly got the coders from.
In any case, forget about running any Hyperion games then because most likely they will introduce yet another PPC kernel.
AmiJoe / Met@Box : Comment 11 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by Ryan E. A. Czerwinski on 18-May-2000 22:00 GMT
I have been in contact with Met@box about this. The M68k emulator is not completed. They want it to be as stable and as fast as possible before releasing it. It will be another couple of months before the 1200 version is out, adding one ore two months for the A3000/4000 version. The A2000 version will follow shortly. All will most likely be available by the time Nov rolls around. The A2000 version will be a nice touch too.
Cheers,
Ryan E. A. Czerwinski
Merlancia@merlancia.com
AmiJoe / Met@Box : Comment 10 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by Eric on 18-May-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (Matt Wakeling):
Well, not for "normal application stuff," because that's all written
for 68K Amigas, and the 060 on a CyberstormPPC isn't magically faster
because there happens to be a PPC chip next to it. (I guess the
memory access is 64-bit and therefore supposedly the fastest, but in
terms of user experience it's not noticeably faster than the
Blizzard060 I used to have.) But there's a fair bit of PPC software.
Personally it was worth it to me just for CandyFactoryPPC alone, but
also I've played a lot of Quake, Doom, Hexen etc. If you're
interested in emulation then there's loads of PPC stuff that works
pretty well. Aside from the commercial (mostly graphics-oriented)
software, there's quite a bit on Aminet--mpeg players, mp3 stuff, etc.
But if the AmiJoe is ever done, there's a chance even 68K Amiga
programs would run faster if the G3 can do 68K emulation fast enough.
--Eric
AmiJoe / Met@Box : Comment 8 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by Matt Wakeling on 18-May-2000 22:00 GMT
I would be interested to hear from people who could tell me if there's a significant difference between the performance of a CyberStorm 060, and a Cyberstorm PPC, for normal application stuff.
Is there actually that much software that takes advantage of the PPC?
AmiJoe / Met@Box : Comment 9 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by www.emrl.com on 18-May-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (Matt Wakeling):
ProStationAudio uses Power Pc. www.audiolabs.it Also they have recently reduced the price of REMIX. Anyone interested in Audio software for the Amiga really should go check it out!!!!(-:
AmiJoe / Met@Box : Comment 4 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by Henrik Mikael Kristensen on 18-May-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (Jaeson Koszarsky):
I REALLY hope that we don't get another dispute about which PPC OS to use... It would kill the card immediately.
AmiJoe / Met@Box : Comment 5 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by Dimitris Panokostas on 18-May-2000 22:00 GMT
I want to buy a PPC card for my A4000, and right now, there aren't any!
The Cyberstorm PPC is not available (yet), the AmiJoe will be (hopefully),
but not for a few good months from now... Damn! :(((
AmiJoe / Met@Box : Comment 6 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by George Kaliviotis on 18-May-2000 22:00 GMT
in the situation the amiga has come to there is only one thing amigans must do.
Buy Anything you find now 'cause you will NEVER know if there will be another, or if the existing will continue. :-((
AmiJoe / Met@Box : Comment 7 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by Nick on 18-May-2000 22:00 GMT
On a slightly off note: those of you waiting for a PPC card for your Amiga; be it AmiJoe, Blizzard PPC or CyberStorm PPC - do not give up waiting and give up on the Amiga - once you finally get one of these cards you'll soon see a complete change in the way your Amiga works. It is as if it's a new machine!!
And if you're worried about the old PowerUp Vs. WarpUp problem - I work around it by using both.... :)
PPC Amigas are simply.... Mmmmmmm!! :))
All we need now is a PPC office suite......
AmiJoe / Met@Box : Comment 1 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by Han van Gelderen on 18-May-2000 22:00 GMT
What I've heard is that the problem is about the 68k emulator.
The release date was suspended for about 3 months, so that should be
July or August.
AmiJoe / Met@Box : Comment 2 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 18-May-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Han van Gelderen):
To the best of our knowledge, there is NO problem with the 68K emulator, the thing is simply not finished.
Ben Hermans
Managing Partner "Hyperion"
AmiJoe / Met@Box : Comment 3 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by Jaeson Koszarsky on 18-May-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
Doesn't that qualify as a problem?
AmiJoe / Met@Box : Comment 18 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by MagicSN on 19-May-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (Cybes):
Hi!
Concerning comment 17: AFAIK this plan (doing
an own PPC Kernel + 68k Emulation) was just
at the beginning and has been dropped long
ago (But I do not have new information currently). They
thought about this last November. They saw I
think in the meanwhile that another PPC Kernel
won't bring enough software (especially if it
only would run on the new cards, and not on the
old cards).
About the H&P Emulation: It was demonstrated on
different shows and Amiga meetings by H&P. I
also have (not the latest version, though) a
version on my harddrive, and it runs fine.
It runs at around 040 speed for most applications,
but remember I only have a 150 MHz 604e. Well,
maybe 40 MHz 040 speed for a lot of apps... some
even reach 060 level, but these are only very
few ones (StormC Compiling, basically). H&P
estimate that on a G3 (especially when it has
a 2nd level cache and decent RAM bus speed)
it reaches 060 speed. The Emulation should not
be too hard to port to a new hardware. It was
earlier mentioned "around 3 weeks". And this
would also mean all current PPC Apps should run
(WarpUP Apps run native on the Emulation, and
I guess ppc.lib Apps could run on the Emulation,
though I never tested if this really works).
Of 68k and WarpUP programs all I tested worked
though. The Emulation also includes FPU and
(partial) MMU Emulation. It already has a ROM
(though this currently resides on harddrive),
so it is well prepared for a FlashROM-based
G3-Card. At the time i was involved in the
negociation between the firms (about the price
of the Emulator) M@tabox was thinking of an
own PPC Kernel (but they never got something
running AFAIK, and I doubt they did later).
I think the delay is mainly as M@tabox is
"playing Poker" about reducing the price as
much as possible. But I think it is really
time to lie the cards on the table now. Else
they might loose more than they can win.
Steffen Haeuser
AmiJoe / Met@Box : Comment 16 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by XDelusion on 19-May-2000 22:00 GMT
Um, 500 AMD that is! :O)
AmiJoe / Met@Box : Comment 17 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by Cybes on 19-May-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (Mike):
-I've never seen nor heard any verifiable reports of the H&P 68k emulator (that's the one you want them to use, right?) being 1) Complete 2) Faster than current 060's. From the rumors I've heard, it may reach @040 speeds, but it doesn't have the capability to store translated M68k instructions in memory, so it isn't going to get a whole lot faster unless you step up the processor power a HUGE amount, or you start caching instructions.
From what i recall the 040 speeds were that of the H&P 68k emulator under a 604e ppc. And i recall somewhere, forget where, but one of the companies who were offering to make ppc boards claiming the g3/300 getting speeds of 150% speed of an 060 based on some existing benchmarks from a macintosh 68k emulator.
H&P have posted some remarks regarding the speeds of their emulation but i forget what exactly they were now.
Regarding the two 68k emulators, from a posting i have here they are going to use both emulators. H&P and their own. But one will be resident in a flashrom one will be disk launched emulator i think.
Actually i just found a posting from met@box via ANN i kept from 24th of february or so regarding the emulators.
----
regarding 68k-emulation: met@box has two emulations in development, optimized for the pipes of the G3/G4. The first one is in a Flash-ROM and will reach about the niveau of a 030 - 040. An update for this emulation will only be necessary in case of any bugs. The second emulation will be loaded from harddisk at booting and brings the full speed. For this one there'll be regular updates for improvement. Current calculations show, that a PPC needs about 3.5 cycles (? - german: "Takt") for the emulation of one 8/16-bit-68k-command; 32-bit-commands are emulated in ca. 1.5 cycles, so that, regarding Thomas Rudloff, already their entrance-model will be better than an overclocked 68060. Important would be the possibility to switch between 68k- and PPC-code, so that a partial port of AmigaOS and applications would be possible. The second generation of emulation is already planned and will be much faster.
Martin Heine posted that news to c.s.a.misc back then.
AmiJoe / Met@Box : Comment 29 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by James on 20-May-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 21 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
-Sure, Dave Haynie is coding a 68K emulator.
-Dave is a hardware designer and he is NOT coding a 68K emulator.
-You may want to consider that the managing partner of Hyperion has better access to information than 99.9% of the users out there.
-Best regards,
-Ben Hermans
-Managing Partner "Hyperion
No disrespect intended, but If thats so regarding Hyperion knowing all they do then why did you seem to know nothing about a 68k emulator which met@box themselves talked about?
Also why did you seem to know little about the progress which others who dont work with hyperion have found out directly from met@box themselves?
AmiJoe / Met@Box : Comment 24 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 20-May-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (George Kaliviotis):
Well Metabox have done a whole lotta sh*t to us indeed: they been
talking too much with absolutely no results since months! The website
is obsolete, it seems they even haven't got enough time left for
adding a simple "Sorry for the delays, please be patient some more weeks!"
or similar to it! E-mails do not get answered (not only mine!).
The only question is WHY? Do they simply suck??? Is Metabox full of
jerks (hi dave :) ??
On the other hand I don't feel like buying a slow PPC from DCE or whatever
anymore... Hell, a G3 is outdated today!
So please Metabox, my question is "AMIGA?". I want the answer to be "G3/G4"!
And not "M$ PC"!
Martin losing faith :-(
AmiJoe / Met@Box : Comment 32 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by Mark Olsen on 20-May-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 30 (sutro):
-Susan Elzingre - 29 March 2000:
-Hopefully the AmiJoe 1200 will be ready in about three mont
It was in three months from 29/03/2000, not from now.
AmiJoe / Met@Box : Comment 31 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 20-May-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (James):
I was involved in the negotiations between H&P and Metabox. Unless Metabox is lying to us:
1) the hardware is NOT finished
2) there is no software yet.
If they are developing their own 68K emulation, they certainly have not told H & P although this would be a perfect negotiation ploy.
They did say at one point they would release the boards with Linux.
Hopefully they have been made to understand that Linux is not what people need an Amiga accelerator for.
Best regards,
Ben Hermans
Hyperion
AmiJoe / Met@Box : Comment 30 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by sutro on 20-May-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 28 (Elwood):
:Hopefully the AmiJoe 1200 will be ready in about three months from now.
Is this official ? If this is the case then we MIGHT have an AmiJoe1200 ready
by christmas and 4000/2000 versions in about a year and a half :-(
I mean 3 months for an already finished product ?? Come on !!!
Unless metabox`s attitude and marketing change dramatically I won`t hold my breath
for joecards to appear at all ... Well , back to escena again ...
sutro
AmiJoe / Met@Box : Comment 28 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by Elwood on 20-May-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 27 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
Susan Elzingre - 29 March 2000:
Hopefully the AmiJoe 1200 will be ready in about three months from now. The hardware is complete but the
software is not yet finished.
----
At this time Metabox didn't choose an OS yet. I REALLY hope it's now the case...
AmiJoe / Met@Box : Comment 27 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 20-May-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 26 (Andrew Korn):
Andrew, I don't doubt it could be finished in a matter of weeks if enough resources would be allocated. Question is: is Metabox willing to treat this a serious project or are they content with its current status of personal pet-project of two engineers who do work on it in their spare time?
Ben Hermans
AmiJoe / Met@Box : Comment 26 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by Andrew Korn on 20-May-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
Ben, the AmiJoe hardware may not be finished, but it must be pretty close. We've had one in the office for some months now. I guess there's a limit to testing without any way of making it actually do anything, but hardware isn't the big hold-up.
AmiJoe / Met@Box : Comment 25 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by sutro on 20-May-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 24 (Anonymous):
:On the other hand I don't feel like buying a slow PPC from DCE or whatever
anymore... Hell, a G3 is outdated today!
G3 is as obsolete as an PIII or Athlon ...
Permedia2 IS obsolete if you fancy playing these damn silly 3D games (I am not)
but for productivity software it is ok.
Metabox does not seem very interested in producing anything for Amiga. If they were
they would have done it already , at least advertise it. Maybe they don`t believe they can make
money from Amiga. This is where Amiga Inc. should push the things more actively.
sutro
AmiJoe / Met@Box : Comment 22 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by Paul on 20-May-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (PezWiz):
Yep, I am sure there are a lot of coders out there capable of doing
the required work. If I remember one of the ANN new stories (morph os one) from
a while ago correctly didn't Ralph Schmidt say that he had been in contact
with metabox. He claims to have a fairly desecent 68K emulation.
AmiJoe / Met@Box : Comment 23 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by George Kaliviotis on 20-May-2000 22:00 GMT
Come ON!!! why we have to argue for something that don't even excist?
I want to buy the board for my 1200 because my previous ppc board broke down.
I don't want any promise AGAIN. If they want to feed us with lies I will ignore them for good, I'm bored with all of this.
I want facts and PRODUCTS (if not only products).
Does anyone know if dce is accepting p5 ppc cards for repair?
I mail them but no answer so long...
AND REMEMBER buy anuthing exists now do not wait...
SUPPORT the existing developers supporting Amiga not the PROMISHED ones , let them show they support in real.
AmiJoe / Met@Box : Comment 19 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by Neil on 20-May-2000 22:00 GMT
all I want to know of some sort of date when amijoe for A3000 is ready and what is going on
AmiJoe / Met@Box : Comment 20 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by PezWiz on 20-May-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
Coders? You wonder where they got coders from? Well Dave Haynie who designed probably
the two best Amigas ever build, those being the A3000 and the A3000T does work
there! You think Haynie can't code? Bwhahahaha....
Nevertheless, I'm sure there are alot of coders there.
Get a grip man, you're loosing it. :0
AmiJoe / Met@Box : Comment 21 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 20-May-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (PezWiz):
Sure, Dave Haynie is coding a 68K emulator.
Dave is a hardware designer and he is NOT coding a 68K emulator.
You may want to consider that the managing partner of Hyperion has better access to information than 99.9% of the users out there.
Best regards,
Ben Hermans
Managing Partner "Hyperion"
AmiJoe / Met@Box : Comment 37 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by Sinan Gurkan on 21-May-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 26 (Andrew Korn):
Is board that you have working ?...If so, what are u running on it ?
Thanks
AmiJoe / Met@Box : Comment 38 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by Sinan Gurkan on 21-May-2000 22:00 GMT
I think biggest problem here isn't AmiJoe...Problem is the gfx board that will come with AmiJoe
AmiJoe / Met@Box : Comment 39 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by Mark Olsen on 21-May-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 38 (Sinan Gurkan):
AFAIK, it will come with some sort of PCI bus.
AmiJoe / Met@Box : Comment 40 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by Remco Komduur on 21-May-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 38 (Sinan Gurkan):
I can agree to that. If they put a graphic card on this thing with a chip which bears the name Permedia 2 then I wouldn't get my panties in an uproar ????? (Heard Al Bundy say it once).
I think we will just have to wait and see but I do hope that Met@Box doesn't do anything stupid like writing another kernel. The PowerUp WarpOS debate hasn't even finished and unfortunatly another OS called MorphOS is here to make a mess of things once more.
What we don't need is to split the current Amiga market up once more. What should happen is that all developers agree to go in one direction and do that uniformly. If we fail to do that, we are one step closer to killing the Amiga off for good. And I don't want to see that happen.
At this point I see DCE creating a new great graphics card first before Met@Box is able to bring something new to the market.
But I am very interrested in seeing what the new VooDoo add-on for the Picasso 4 will be doing. But we need to remember that it is 5 times slower than a VooDoo 2.
Remco
AmiJoe / Met@Box : Comment 34 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by damocles on 21-May-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 31 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
No, AmiJoe is not a primary product for Met@Box, their STBs and JoeCards are. Being as such, that means their high priority projects will recieved their full attention. (Goes to figure, since it's not their primary source of income). Met@Box is hiring more Engineers so that should relieve Rudloff (once those new engineers are in place) to finish what little has to be done to the Amijoe cards.
Since Met@Box has had a bunch of coders for years now (primarily for their main projects), I'm just wondering who's 68K emulator is going to be used now...
damocles
AmiJoe / Met@Box : Comment 35 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by George Kaliviotis on 21-May-2000 22:00 GMT
Lets send a mail to met@box ALL together... We have here Software developers , journalists , and the real interesting for them BASE PEOPLE who wants to bye their product.. Let them show us their PLANS. (If they have one).
The mail must have an EXACT date for the release to convince us for now...
After that they reach the deadline.. so we...
AmiJoe / Met@Box : Comment 36 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by Steffen Haeuser on 21-May-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (James):
--- snip ---
No disrespect intended, but If thats so regarding Hyperion knowing all they do then why
did you seem to know nothing about a 68k emulator which met@box themselves talked
about?
--- snap ---
Hyperion *did* know about this. I was present at the meeting between Hyperion,
M@tabox and H&P in November, when they told about this stuff. It was also clear
though that they did not have anything RUNNING. As to my impression from that
meeting it was that the bosses of M@tabox were thinking
"When we do a G3 Card for the Mac we don't need any external guys doing a 68k
Emulation... so why should we be dependent on external developers for an Amiga
Card ? The OS has to provide compatibility."
At the meeting Hyperion (Ben Hermans) never believed they actually had coded
only a single line of this "own Emulation", but that it was only a negociation
trick ("Hey, if you do not do this Emulation for free, we will do our own
Emulation"). I think this is at least very close to the truth.
As Hyperion knew that there was *no chance* they could
support a third PPC Kernel, they were of course interested that this does
not get public information (Hyperion was absolutely sure that this talk
about "own Emulation" was only a negociation ploy and that if this trickery
does not lead anywhere they HAVE to license the 68k Emulation sooner or later).
After the "We will do our own Emulation" threat failed, they tried "If the
Emulation does not come for free, we will sell the Boards with Linux". But
this was dropped also, and then negociations restarted luckily. But of course
all that crap caused delays.
The biggest problem appearently always was their "on the Mac we do not need
this" argument. The bosses of M@tabox are essentially Mac-guys...
In the meanwhile the negociations SHOULD be successfully finished (though
I have no information on the current situation). The hardware AFAIK is
not completely finished, though near-working Prototypes AFAIK exist
since the November-show.
Steffen Haeuser
AmiJoe / Met@Box : Comment 33 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by Andrew Korn on 21-May-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 27 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
You hit the nail on the head there - the relative unimportance of Amijoe to Met@box is the key problem.
It's a small product for them and it's really not that important to them that it ever comes out. On the other hand the rest of the market depends on it coming out to a greater or lesser degree. It's not hard to see that there's a significant imbalance in negotiating strength between the parties involved, which doesn't tend to encourage quick agreements.
AmiJoe / Met@Box : Comment 53 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by Ralph Schmidt on 22-May-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 47 (George Kaliviotis):
I can`t speak for Don.
I only know that the product is not dead for him and is
currently only on a lower priority level as he`s 100% loaded
with work on future Metabox development.
The CyberstormPPC is not my card...only the the whole software
base belongs to me.
The HW design is owned by DCE which will probably start the
production again this week.
Sure that DCE board sales would directly be more financial
attractive to me but I don`t really think that both products
are really competing at the moment.
It`s up to every user without a PPC to decide if he wants a
product now or if he wants to wait for a not yet available one.
Frank Mariak and I surely plan to support the Amijoe with a
MorphOS port when it`s coming.
Besides that Don and I know us for about 10 years and we were
the initial Phase5 development team so there`s nothing about
competition between us which you may assume through the DCE
Phase5 products reissues.
AmiJoe / Met@Box : Comment 52 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by Ralph Schmidt on 22-May-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 48 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
So Mr. Herman, as you`re working for some investment company
and are "aware" of MetaBox product stategy why do you make
such ridiculous assumptions some amiga product is
*financial* important for them. It's not...a PPC only
Amiga board is a very support intensive product which will
experience problems no other product in this market
ever experienced before.
And besides that...this is Don's product and he decides.
Not Haage, not you and not me. Case closed.
Furthermore..DCE is not my employer and this has
nothing to do with my dealings with him which are
surely not *your* business.
I only gave you a very wise suggestion about rethinking
who you wanna piss off as *your* remaining Amiga
HW base of about ~10000 Phase5 units depends on my
support.
Besides that...i don`t really understand your problem as
I`m not the one who attacked you on this medium by
snipe personal comments. It was you.
AmiJoe / Met@Box : Comment 51 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by Mark Olsen on 22-May-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 49 (Remco Komduur):
- I still don't understand this problem that is continueing to plague the Amiga market.
It seems like Sam Jordan&gang hates Ralph Schmidt and vice versa.
As Ralph currently has monopoly on the HW, and Sam Jordan has monopoly on SW, we aren't going anywhere.
Also, for some reason, The WOS gang seem to flame Ralph bigtime anytime he says anything.
- Who can blame ClickBoom for still not making games for the PowerPC. It is or own damn fault. Instead of working together and helping each other we have been pissing each other off.
I can. They could start by paying their employees. Then they might have some PPC versions of their games.
- Can anybody please explain me why we still have two kernels and not just one with the best of both worlds? I thought I new but I have lost it.
Do we ? AFAIK, the only real choice is WOS. Unless you use Voyager. I'm not complaining, it is just the only choice. And using Voyager would be silly, as it is utterly unstable.
- And unless the explanation is a good one I still remain with my point: if there IS an industry wherein people aren't able to work together, it seems to be the computer industry.
So true. Harmony is non-existing
AmiJoe / Met@Box : Comment 50 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by George Kaliviotis on 22-May-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 49 (Remco Komduur):
well my friend noone can understand that. The only explain I have is that the amiga community is too small for competitors.... Only a monopoly can be viable.
Also the problem with 2 kernels: as I know and from as I've heard is that worpOS is better and supported by Amiga. But for warpOS u have to by the compiler to program for this kernel, on the other side the developer tools for the powerUp kernel is free of charge.
From one point of view I'm glad to see all this energy and mess, because shows that the platform is still (for how long I don't know) ALIVE.
AmiJoe / Met@Box : Comment 46 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by redrumloa on 22-May-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 45 (E hilton):
I truely wish it would really only be 4 weeks off... I severly doubt this:-( Especially now with H&P saying they have not even seen a board to date. AmiJoe is starting to become just one more vapor miggy project.
:-(
AmiJoe / Met@Box : Comment 47 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by George Kaliviotis on 22-May-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 44 (Ralph Schmidt):
Come ON MR schmidt! We don't want to spam anything we just want to know if this card will be on sale and when. I believe that ONLY ONE e-mail with all people's signature from this comment list is NOT spaming.Anyway some people here (and not only here) want to buy a card for their amiga and they want to know if they have an alternative or just buy YOUR card manufactured now by dce.
Thanks in advance for not misaderstanding me. :-)
Also THANKS for YOUR ppc product it kept my amiga for not being outdated for almost 2 years. (same it broke down) :-(
AmiJoe / Met@Box : Comment 48 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 22-May-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 44 (Ralph Schmidt):
Dear mister Schmidt, ofcourse I know that Metabox AG is listed on the Neuer Markt. I work for an investment company.
I won't dwell on that although I could give you a nice lecture on Neuer Markt valuations.
What most interested me was this:
"then you better *rethink* again who is handling the sw base for the hw you need for your amiga game sales."
What this is (a not particularly) veiled threat? Because if it was, you are not threatening Hyperion as most of our income will come from Mac and Linux sales but in fact the remaining Amiga users who would like to enjoy our games.
You might want to check with your current employer Herr Dellert about this wisdom of making such threats.
Best regards,
Ben Hermans
Managing Partner "Hyperion"
AmiJoe / Met@Box : Comment 49 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by Remco Komduur on 22-May-2000 22:00 GMT
I still don't understand this problem that is continueing to plague the Amiga market.
One thing that I have noticed in my fairly short live so far is that no matter how small the computer industry your working in, people just don't seem to be able to work together. The last few years of the Amiga existence have been a constant proof of that.
Instead of combining the best of both worlds we still have two kernels. I really don't understand this. But I guess it's just me (NOT!!!!!!!!).
Who can blame ClickBoom for still not making games for the PowerPC. It is or own damn fault. Instead of working together and helping each other we have been pissing each other off.
I personally think that Hyperion software are doing a brave thing making games for the kernel WHICH HAS BEEN OFFICIALLY SUPPORTED BY AMIGA.
Can anybody please explain me why we still have two kernels and not just one with the best of both worlds? I thought I new but I have lost it.
And unless the explanation is a good one I still remain with my point: if there IS an industry wherein people aren't able to work together, it seems to be the computer industry.
Remco
AmiJoe / Met@Box : Comment 43 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 22-May-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 42 (Ralph Schmidt):
Spamming? Real income projects?
Typical. I don't think requesting information about a project which was due to be released in December of 1999 constitutes "spamming".
I guess that explaines why Phase 5 never answered any e-mail. I guess it was considered spam to request information.
I also object to the notion that this is not a "real income project". At least 5000 of these cards can be sold and would allow Metabox to offload a bunch of old G3's.
Since they enjoy a monopoly, they could charge whatever they wanted. Unlike the Mac market which is every competitive.
AmiJoe / Met@Box : Comment 44 of 56ANN.lu
Posted by Ralph Schmidt on 22-May-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 43 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
You don't seem to be aware of MetaBox's main business goals which
brought them the millions through the new stock market here in
germany.
The company isn't about mac cards and *far* less about amiga ppc
cards. Mac cards are a nice bonus business from my viewpoint and
the amiga ppc card is *Thomas*'s project which Metabox's
management understands as a contribution to the amiga users by
old time amiga developers which are the base of MetaBox.
Besides that...Mr. Herman. I have no interest to get with *you*
on a personal level as there's nothing between *us*.
If you wanna make Haeusser+Haage's agenda your own and piss me
off then you better *rethink* again who is handling the sw base
for the hw you need for your amiga game sales.
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