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[Motd] Hard disk won't spin upANN.lu
Posted on 03-Jul-2000 07:46 GMT by Christian Kemp32 comments
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I think I killed my desktop's hard disk. The computer is typically running all the time, but on Saturday I switched it off for the first time in months. When I switched it back on an hour later, the hard disk, an 8 GB Samsung unit, wouldn't spin up again. The BIOS doesn't recognise it anymore, and I can't hear a single sound from it if I switch on, or reset, the machine. Does anyone have any useful suggestions as to what I could possibly do, apart from just rushing out and getting a more reliable IBM drive and starting from scratch? Update 13-Jul-2000: It seems to be working again. I like problems that just resolve themselves when ignored for a week.
Hard disk won't spin up : Comment 1 of 32ANN.lu
Posted by Luser on 02-Jul-2000 22:00 GMT
Yeah, start doing backups mate.
Hard disk won't spin up : Comment 2 of 32ANN.lu
Posted by amigakid on 02-Jul-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to the drive problem. First do the normal and check all you
connections i.e. ribbon cables. They may have slipped loose. Next check
the power supply to it. If all checks out try hooking another drive. If the other
one spins up reconnect the previous and try it again. If the other one doesn't spin
up than it's a hardware prob (could be as simple as a bad connector). If the other
one does spin up and the old one doesn't after rehooking it up than your drive has
had it. If you can get the old one to spin up but can't execute it than use a
disk salve program on it. Most importanly get a zip drive or another way to
backup your hard drive too (I know it's an added expenditure but it really is worth it).
Hard disk won't spin up : Comment 3 of 32ANN.lu
Posted by Jari Pakarinen on 02-Jul-2000 22:00 GMT
Hi,
Hit it with something or bang the computer to your table a bit. :) The harddrive might be stuck and won't be able to start itself.
This has worked for me a couple of times, but be careful not
to break your computer... :)
Jari
Hard disk won't spin up : Comment 4 of 32ANN.lu
Posted by Matthew Wakeling on 02-Jul-2000 22:00 GMT
If all else fails, then there are drive recovery centres, where you send them your hard drive, and they try to get as much of the data off it as possible. Was the data stored in a standard filesystem format?
Hard disk won't spin up : Comment 5 of 32ANN.lu
Posted by Wilhelm Nöker on 02-Jul-2000 22:00 GMT
The problem of hard drives not spinning up again was once discussed on comp.risks. There is a name for it ("stiction") and an explanation of how it happens:
http://catless.ncl.ac.uk/Risks/19.33.html#subj4.1
Hitting the disk hard to un-stick the heads actually seems to be the best you can do. Though apparently something else works, too (but I wouldn't want to try that myself ;-):
http://catless.ncl.ac.uk/Risks/19.34.html#subj18.1
Hard disk won't spin up : Comment 6 of 32ANN.lu
Posted by redrumloa on 02-Jul-2000 22:00 GMT
Sorry to hear this Christian! Was the data backed up? As long as the data is backed up, just get the drive replaced through RMA with Samsung. This shouldn't be a problem, you say it's 8gig..Can't be THAT old. Usually companies will RMA HDs up to 3 years! You don't have to have a receipt either. If you DO have a receipt and it's been less than a year, go directly to the company you bought it from. Reputable companies will usually replace it themselves. If it's over 1 year go right to Samsung.
Regards,
Jim
Hard disk won't spin up : Comment 7 of 32ANN.lu
Posted by Chris Allen on 02-Jul-2000 22:00 GMT
It is most likely to be a PSU problem. They have a tendacy to "Loose Wattage" if they are left due to things like coil degradation. The easiest test is to remove your accelerator and try the HD again, if it still doesn't spin up the heads may not have parked correctly. In such a case a bang on the side should do it. Never do it on top as you might run the heads across the platters.
Chris.
Hard disk won't spin up : Comment 8 of 32ANN.lu
Posted by Jonas Petersson on 02-Jul-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (Chris Allen):
... and while you've got the harddisk in you hand, try smelling around the motor.
One of the extra HDs in my A3000 died a few months ago and it smelled seriously of burned out motor so I never bothered to try to get it working again...
It had already refused to start a few times before but then I managed to unstick it by a few revolve-shakes.
Still, it had been continously on since early '91 so I guess it has done a good job anyway.
Hard disk won't spin up : Comment 9 of 32ANN.lu
Posted by Colin Wilson on 02-Jul-2000 22:00 GMT
I don`t think anyone has said this yet - GOOD LUCK !
I don`t think i`d go for a ZIP drive - I think I would be tempted to stick to a CD writer - they store more, the media is cheaper, and they`re more portable, be it to another Amiga / PC / whatever.
It`s annoying as hell to lose a HD - i`ve lost two over the last 8 years, but you would be amazed much less stress you have when you`re holding CD backup in your hands !
Granted, you may never have a right up to date backup, but they sure as hell help :-)
Hard disk won't spin up : Comment 10 of 32ANN.lu
Posted by Michael Jantzen on 02-Jul-2000 22:00 GMT
I used to have a BBS that was on 24-7 and it had two Seagate ST-225s (thats 40 megs guys...) anyhoo one time the power went off and these hard drives wouldn't spin back up, so we put them into the freezer to maybe reduce tension on the motor and the stepper motor (newer harddrives use mag clamps...) that controlled the heads, and viola they spun back up and they ran until we shut the BBS down about 4 years ago.
However another time my friend had hard drive spinning up problems, but it turned out that the pass through cable for the cpu/fan was causing some wierd power fluctuations. We replaced the cpu/fan and it fixed everything (he actually went out and bought a new hard drive during that period though...).
Hard disk won't spin up : Comment 11 of 32ANN.lu
Posted by Amirules on 02-Jul-2000 22:00 GMT
OK
what has happend is that the heads have gotten stuck on their "landing pad"
this happens when u leave computers on for long periods of time and then swich them off
when u leave it running a layer of crap builds up on the heads when the drive is shut down the heads go to their landing pad (which is a rough area to get dirt off) and stop there, if the disk had been on for a long time there will be a lot of crap on the heads and they will stick to the pad, i have had this on a few servers
you could try banding the disk with the heel of youre hand after taking it out of the computer, other than that i dont know
Hard disk won't spin up : Comment 12 of 32ANN.lu
Posted by Lucas Tyhger on 03-Jul-2000 22:00 GMT
Yeah, I have a pretty good idea. Throw your Wintel box out the window. You don't need it. This is an Amiga site, remember?
Hard disk won't spin up : Comment 13 of 32ANN.lu
Posted by redrumloa on 03-Jul-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (Lucas Tyhger):
Hush thy mouth! The poster (Christian) is the person who brings us this very "Amiga" site! He can use a freakin Univac as far as I'm concerned as long as he keeps providing this great service!
I do hope you were joking. And don't tell me you have never used a PC in your life.
Hard disk won't spin up : Comment 14 of 32ANN.lu
Posted by Chris on 03-Jul-2000 22:00 GMT
I personally would get a different drive. I have never like the
quality of any Samsung product. I had one VCR was replaced under
warrenty 3 times, an 8 Meg SIMM that would sometimes not work, and a
friend had a TV thats volume would go up and down for no reason.
Hard disk won't spin up : Comment 15 of 32ANN.lu
Posted by ShadesOfGrey on 03-Jul-2000 22:00 GMT
I've had a similar problem recently with a Seagate 9GB drive. After a shut down the drive decides not to spin up and sometimes the drive will start making a soft clicking noise. I believe this is the result of the heads trying to get unstuck. You might want to see if your Samsung does the same.
You might try shaking the drive gently before 'banging' it. This has worked for me on ocassion. I've also found turning the drive upside-down will also start it spinning up again.
Hard disk won't spin up : Comment 16 of 32ANN.lu
Posted by bbuilder on 03-Jul-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Luser):
My 1.28 western digital caviar sometimes gets stuck (or something).
I've placed it in removable HD casing and when the HD gets stuck,
I remove it from the computers case and rotate it horizontaly, using
two hands & brute force.
Try to avoid vertical hits because that most likely causes the
read/write heads to hit on the HD's surface.
-bbuilder
Hard disk won't spin up : Comment 17 of 32ANN.lu
Posted by Sam Dunham on 03-Jul-2000 22:00 GMT
Sounds like it's toast, man. There are data recovery facilities out there if there's anything on it you HAVE to have, but they're MIGHTY pricey.
Hard disk won't spin up : Comment 18 of 32ANN.lu
Posted by QuadPro on 03-Jul-2000 22:00 GMT
First - check all connections, cables, etc. Try the HD in another computer.
Second - if it still doesn't spin up, buy a new HD. Insert new HD in computer. Take old HD, drop it a few centimeters on a hard surface. Insert old HD in computer. If lucky, old HD will spin up. If so, *COPY ALL DATA* from the old HD to the new HD. After that, destroy old HD. (it's unreliable, and you *don't* want unreliable harddisks)
Third - if everything fails, restore your backup.
Hard disk won't spin up : Comment 19 of 32ANN.lu
Posted by Shane Ward on 03-Jul-2000 22:00 GMT
I've got a drive with the same problem.
What I do to get it going is to give it a quick sharp jerk, this
ussually is enough to get it to spin up. You'll find your drive may
have worn brushes, so when it stoped there wasn't a good enough
contact to start it spining up again. So giving the drive a quick
twist will cause the platters to spin a bit, creating a better
contact. And off she'll go :) (With some LUCK!!)
Cheers
Wardy
Hard disk won't spin up : Comment 20 of 32ANN.lu
Posted by Shane Ward on 03-Jul-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (Shane Ward):
Oh yeah!
It's a good idea to do this with the drive plugged in and powered up.
Forgot :)
Wardy
Hard disk won't spin up : Comment 21 of 32ANN.lu
Posted by Nathaniel Downes on 03-Jul-2000 22:00 GMT
I'd guess first that the power is not being fed to the drive. Take it out and try to power it up external to the system,
Hard disk won't spin up : Comment 22 of 32ANN.lu
Posted by Russ Yost on 03-Jul-2000 22:00 GMT
Our Motorola sponsored club used to run a Bulletin Board. We got "stuck" drives from Motorola free and used them for the BB on 24/7 service. The BB Op could start them by removing a cover and pushing against the edge of the platter with a rubber tipped probe. That sounds rather iffy, so here's a suggestion. Determine the direction of the axis of rotation of the platters. EG, if the drive board runs fore-aft and is in a vertical plane, the platter axis would be left-right. With power on and the HD trying to start, suddenly rotate the computer case "about" the axis of rotation. For the left-right case, suddenly lift the front edge of the computer a few inches, then slowly let it return to rest. Alternatitively, do the same at the back botton edge of the computer case. The platter's inertia will tend to keep it from rotating, while the drive case is rotated, adding (or subtracting) some torsion to that being produced by the drive motor. This may be enough to overcome the stiction.
Someone suggested cooling the drive. Another idea would be to pre-heat it. The residue is sometimes the lubricant, which tends to soften as it heats up. Letting the computer continue to try to start might burn out the motor or power supply, owing to the excessive current drawn by a stalled dc motor. You could remove the hd and card and heat the assembly in an oven. I guess a temp of 180 deg F. would be safe. After preheating for, say, 30 minutes, remove and install in computer and try to start it before it cools too much.
This stiction problem does not necessarily mean the drive is defective or unreliable. It will be ok if kept running, until it reaches its "rated" life.
Our Club BB had no reliability problems with the "stuck" drives we got from Motorola's maintenance department. (These were not Motorola products, let me add.)
Hard disk won't spin up : Comment 23 of 32ANN.lu
Posted by Keith Brown on 03-Jul-2000 22:00 GMT
I have a drive I use(d) for running unix on my ami.
It may suffer the same ills as your drive.
I am able to get it to spin up using the following meyhod....
With the drive unbolted from you system, but still connected
electricaally (scsi and power), simultaniously switch the
system power on while rotating the drive back and forth
in the plane of the platters rotation. This seems to give the
motor a boost at getting the platters spinning. If you do get
the drive to spin up, immediately get that data transfered
off the drive. After sucsessful backup, immediately take the
drive out to the shooting range and shoot it with a large
caliber firearm.
Good luck, and have fun!
Hard disk won't spin up : Comment 24 of 32ANN.lu
Posted by Scott on 04-Jul-2000 22:00 GMT
I have had some luck by removeing the drive and with it in my hand plug it back in to the system.
then attempt to boot the system while changing the drives atitude or even tapping it a bit.
Can hurt to try. Also check power supply voltage. That had me down on at least one occasion.
Hard disk won't spin up : Comment 25 of 32ANN.lu
Posted by Frank Papaeliou on 07-Jul-2000 22:00 GMT
Your drive may have stickson, where the heads stick to the platters and act as
a brake this is caused by running the HD for a long time causing the heads and the platters to be so
smooth there is no air gap between them.
Another cause is a bad logic board on the drive, if you can find another drive of he same model
switch logic boards. If your drive is on warranty this will void your warranty.
On your hard drive do the following,
1. Remove the drive.
2. With the cables attached and the drive in your hand spin it horazontaly at
the same time turn the power on the idea is to get the platters spinning.
3. If the drive spins up and the computer sees it backup your software.
Hope this helps.
Hard disk won't spin up : Comment 26 of 32ANN.lu
Posted by Jeremy on 07-Jul-2000 22:00 GMT
check the drive connections the temp change probably just made it come loose.
Hard disk won't spin up : Comment 27 of 32ANN.lu
Posted by Richard Brooklyn on 08-Jul-2000 22:00 GMT
This may not be of any help to you, but try and remove all other
drives on the IDE bus. I have had a simular problem with my Western
Digital 8.4gb drive; it doesn't seem to get along with my CD-ROM.
Also, sometimes the Eject buttons on my CD-ROM gets stuck (the button
being the microswitch underneath the plastic) and the entire computer
refuses to boot. I know it sounds odd, but give it a go on the
off chance, prehaps a better option than banging the things and hoping
for the best!
Richard Brooklyn
Hard disk won't spin up : Comment 28 of 32ANN.lu
Posted by Dr. D. on 09-Jul-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (Lucas Tyhger):
... and i pretty much DO agree with you good fellow : this is an Amiga site, no place for Wintel Bice `worries' ...
yet, since dear Chris's `PC-worries' are after all Amiga-related anyway, the only thing i might suggest (and I just emphasize on the fact that it's never been tried, so it's NOT guaranteed at all) is to :
1st. make sure your HD's 100% sure dead - motor and/or motherboard-wise
of course, and then,
2nd. find HD(s) of the same exact technical specs. (preferably 2nd hand yet
mint condition ones which are quite cheaper in price and can be almost
easily traced on computer shows and sales events or even shops advertising
on computer magazines sound like a good bet.)
3rd. replace the `new' HD's motherboard with the `old' one.
4th. i pray it'll work ! (in which case, you'll bless me for it !!)
5th. we (all) pray that dear AmiQueen's `Back for the Future' business will be
up and running soon. And ...
Hard disk won't spin up : Comment 29 of 32ANN.lu
Posted by Dr. D. on 09-Jul-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (ShadesOfGrey):
if you say that your HD drive works better when placed upside down, i.e. (i hope i'm getting you there right) with the motherboard facing upwards (and not under the HD unit's body), is because the `heat build-up' in this position is minimized, and the device works `cooler' ...
a friend of mine killed his 1.2(or 1.7)GB 3.5" Quantum Fireball unit because,
a. he refused to spend a bit more money on getting himself a proper PSU, and
just went on using an old A500's PSU to power up his A1200, + the referred
to HD unit, + a Blizzard 030 50Mhz+16MB RAM daughterboard, + a CD drive
attached (the original Amiga floppy drive not to be excluded of course) !!
b. and worse, the HD unit, he just had to place outside the A1200, with its
motherboard `always' facing (in fact sticking to) the desktop !!!
he did for a short period of time take my advice, and placed `feet' under the HD unit to provoke some (very little) ventilation, but after a while -due to mysterious reasons unbenkonwn to me as yet- threw away the feet, and treated the poor drive in the old fashion ... And the drive burnt out ... And you just had to see what a beautiful, perfectly running, and reliable system setup he had devised himself in a matter of about 2 years, utilizing OS3.5, MUI, Hi-res MWb, and so on ... And he had no backup of not even a `bit' of all the data ...
another friend of mine -configuring his A1200 inside a big (AZ-like) tower- has installed CPU fans to his HD's motherboards, and the sides of the tower, are always open to allow for reaching the inside to plug and test various add-ons to the system, as well as full ventialation of the entire thing ... (he is an evangelist Amiga service provider working in a small PC (and Amiga) shop in Iran.)
And of course we all do all this comment-ing business concerning the `notorious' Amiga on an MS\Wintel box PC veesee deesee boobz ...
But who was it who said we are sane creatures ??! His name wasn't Bill Gates, was it !??
Hard disk won't spin up : Comment 30 of 32ANN.lu
Posted by Amon_Re on 09-Jul-2000 22:00 GMT
It's dead Jim, let it rest.
BTW, what are you using a PC for? *Grin*
Hard disk won't spin up : Comment 31 of 32ANN.lu
Posted by Andrew McDonald on 12-Jul-2000 22:00 GMT
Sometimes the power connectors become unreliable.
Have you tried a different power connector, this is usually the cause of intermittent problems where the hd suddenly appears to die.
Worth a try anyway.
Hard disk won't spin up : Comment 32 of 32ANN.lu
Posted by Matthew on 15-Jul-2000 22:00 GMT
Glad to hear that it has resolved itself.
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