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[News] Mediator updateANN.lu
Posted on 26-Aug-2000 13:03 GMT by Teemu I. Yliselä49 comments
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Vision Factory Development are reporting that they've made a Virge-based PCI graphics card successfully work through the Mediator busboard with their CyberGraphX 3 driver (CGX4 driver is in the works). Also a driver for 3Dfx Voodoo3 is being worked on.

Mediator update : Comment 1 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 25-Aug-2000 22:00 GMT
Yet again Big Box users get screwed. Kinda like MeTaBox who plainly stated
on their pages that the AmiJoe would be first released for the A1200 first,
then followed by cards for the A2000, A3000(t's), and A4000(t's). All this
was on their page at one time, and I even have an email from them stating
the same thing. Now they lie and say they never said that they would make
the AmiJoe for anything but the A1200's. Blatant lies!!! It was on their
AmiJoe page at one time, and I have an email from them a proof.
I have 7 Amigas and they are ALL big box Amigas.
Mediator update : Comment 2 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Björn Hagström on 25-Aug-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Anonymous):
Whine whine whine
Mediator update : Comment 3 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by SimplePPC on 25-Aug-2000 22:00 GMT
Indeed, no Mediator for A4000 yet.... But there is the DEC built CSPPC->PCI bridge,
which probably be a bit better ? Stuff WILL happen
Mediator update : Comment 4 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Robert Simmonds on 25-Aug-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Anonymous):
#Yet again Big Box users get screwed. Kinda like MeTaBox who plainly stated
#on their pages that the AmiJoe would be first released for the A1200 first,
Its a simple case of economics. If you are creating stuff for the amiga, you cannot pour money into R&D for the rarest machines. I am suprised the can afford to run production for the A1200 alone.
Basically, I would think the A3000/4000 version may run if they make sufficient return on the 12000 version, but dont hold your breath.
Mediator update : Comment 5 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 26-Aug-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (SimplePPC):
AIK, it's only in planning phase. :(
Mediator update : Comment 6 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 26-Aug-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Björn Hagström):
Bite me ya dweeb!
Mediator update : Comment 7 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 26-Aug-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (Robert Simmonds):
I know at least 60 people that have Amigas here, and most have more than
one. Not one of them own an A1200, so I don't think big box Amigas are
as rare as you seem to think.
Mediator update : Comment 8 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Björn Hagström on 26-Aug-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (Anonymous):
So, you think that they are making 1200 only versions just
to screw those with big box amigas ?
right.
Get real people.
/Björn
Mediator update : Comment 9 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Kay Are Ulvestad on 26-Aug-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Anonymous):
It can't be easy developing hardware for the Amiga, seeing as if you
make something for one group of users, you risk being flamed by
others. Elbox are making a PCI interface for the A1200, and are
considering one for big box Amigas. That's great. Let's just hope, for
the sake of big box users, that they find it profitable to make the
big box version. If they make it, it will be because of that, and
nothing else. Don't think you have a right to get a certain product
for your computer, or that blaming hardware developers for screwing
you will encourage development.
Mediator update : Comment 10 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 26-Aug-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 9 (Kay Are Ulvestad):
He spoke about AmiJoe, and only tell the truth.
Mediator update : Comment 11 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Rafo on 26-Aug-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Björn Hagström):
...and completely off-topic.
Mediator update : Comment 12 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Ganja on 26-Aug-2000 22:00 GMT
Vision Factory.. Hmm.. That name reminds me of something! ;)
Mediator update : Comment 13 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 26-Aug-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (Björn Hagström):
Oh yeah right! Of course that's what I think.
Frankly I think they are screwing themselves. Hopefully, they A1200
version sells enough to warrant them making one for big box Amigas.
It's couldn't be that hard to make a PCI backplane for ZIII. It seems
to me it would be a hell of alot harder to make this for an A1200.
I'd wager that there are as many big box Amigas in use as there are
A1200's, and that these big box Amigas overall are much more powerful
machines.
Mediator update : Comment 14 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Ralph on 26-Aug-2000 22:00 GMT
Owners of BigBox Amigas are more likely to invest in new/expensive hardware, otherwise
they probably would have gone A1200. So although the A1200 may have been sold in higher
numbers, the amount of possible buyers for a PCI board is not that different IMHO as
the percentage of buyers on the BigBox side is probably significantly higher than on the
A1200 side. So if a mediator is considered economically successful for the A1200 it is
probably also for the A3/4000...
Mediator update : Comment 15 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by XDelusion on 26-Aug-2000 22:00 GMT
Well the 1200 is the only model that is still available from Amiga...
Anyhow I am interested in checking this out on my 1200, that is of course if it too ever exists.
Mediator update : Comment 16 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by denny on 26-Aug-2000 22:00 GMT
Stop winging!
if you want pci cards that bad buy a secondhand a1200 and tower kit.
a3k + a4k owners can buy a zIII gfx card much more easy than an a1200 so that will affect demand too!
Mediator update : Comment 17 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by A1200 Owner (Can you Tell) :) on 26-Aug-2000 22:00 GMT
For a long time, there wasnt even a gfx card for A1200 owners, we waited without the whining. So this is the first time that the low end Amiga gets something very powerfull first for a change, I'm sure u big box guys will get yours, You just got to have patience like us little A1200 people (or upgrade your a1200 to a big box like i have). Did we whine when you got 604e and we didnt :)...Roll on AmiJoe :p
Mediator update : Comment 18 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Nian on 27-Aug-2000 22:00 GMT
The problem with their line of thinking is that times have changed, people have baught second hand Big Box Amigas because they are superior. So in truth although many more people baught A1200's initially, the gap is closing as the market gets smaller. I wouldn't dismiss the idea that its 1:1 in big box to a1200 users now. Anyway it must be bloody difficult designing a PCI buss for an A1200, how much R&D would they need for the A4k? Pft.
Mediator update : Comment 19 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Kojak on 27-Aug-2000 22:00 GMT
Another option is of course the BoXer, but I doubt that it will ever going to see the light of day, we have been screwed too many times to think postive now...lol :)
Mediator update : Comment 20 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by SimplePPC on 27-Aug-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (Kojak):
Were is Elbox is located ? In poland...Now what is the most used Amiga
system in Poland ? An A1200, we in USA and Euro and Westernlike
countries can indeed get an A4000 2nd hand from former
artists/Video/Scala users but i doubt that to be the case in Poland.
And for the 100th time...Elbox is OFCOURSE dedicated to try and get an
A4000 PCI busboard out, but they have LIMITED resources like every
Amiga company and have to concentrate on their OWN country 1st, which
is probably 90% A1200. I hope i made some sense here :))
Regards,
Mediator update : Comment 21 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 27-Aug-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (Nian):
Right on brother!!!
Mediator update : Comment 22 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 27-Aug-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 21 (Anonymous):
I agree that big box Amigas are used by at least half of the Amiga Community.
Mediator update : Comment 23 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Yoris on 27-Aug-2000 22:00 GMT
Big Boxes users please be calm and patient !
A bridge CVPPC-PCI is being developed by DCE/Escena so A3000/A4000 will have a PCI connection too !
No one needs to be frustrated !
Mediator update : Comment 24 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Henrik Mikael Kristensen on 27-Aug-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (Ben Yoris):
Any info on that bridge-thingy anywhere?
Mediator update : Comment 25 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Marcel on 27-Aug-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (Ben Yoris):
>>A bridge CVPPC-PCI is being developed by DCE/Escena so A3000/A4000 will have a PCI connection too !
No one needs to be frustrated !
-------------
Yeah, that's an option for me. Lay down $1000 for a PPC card, and then fork out another $300 for a bridge so that I can make the internals of my A3000 look like a Christmas tree and heat up like my old dodge. I'd rather replace the ZorroIII daughterboard with a PCI daughterboard, keeping the insides of my A3000 organized and cooler.
Mediator update : Comment 26 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Artur Pietruk on 27-Aug-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (SimplePPC):
> Were is Elbox is located ? In poland...Now what is the most used Amiga
> system in Poland ? An A1200, we in USA and Euro and Westernlike
> countries can indeed get an A4000 2nd hand from former
> artists/Video/Scala users but i doubt that to be the case in Poland.
That's not the reason. You can buy second hand A4000(T) in Poland, too.
--- Artur Pietruk
Mediator update : Comment 27 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Yoris on 27-Aug-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 24 (Henrik Mikael Kristensen):
Not for the moment.
You'll have to believe my words.
Mediator update : Comment 28 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Coz on 27-Aug-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (Anonymous):
I can't speak for Europe but I know CBM were building the A4000 in the US by -hand-. I don't think it was being built anywhere else. AFAIK the 1200 was being run off in sizable quantities at the factory in Singapore. You don't get large numbers building 'em by hand.
No, I don't own an A1200. I have an A4000, bless it's little heart. 8^)
Coz
Mediator update : Comment 29 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Remco Komduur on 27-Aug-2000 22:00 GMT
What's this all about then. Complain, complain and complain.
Elbox know what they are doing, thrust me. They are not going to dig their own grave and they have probably done research on which one sells better. They have their own test for that.
How many sales have they made on the Elbox/Power/Winner tower and IDE/Power Flyer for A1200 and A4000. If they have sold huge amounts for the A1200 and less for the A4000, then for what system would you develop?
By the way, it's about time A1200 owners get a break.
Mediator update : Comment 30 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Sinan Gurkan on 27-Aug-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (Ben Yoris):
Hi Ben,
Will there be a BVisionPPC-PCI bridge ?
Thanks
Mediator update : Comment 31 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 27-Aug-2000 22:00 GMT
Don't forget that although there are more A1200's, what counts is how many of them have became 'towerised'?
Mediator update : Comment 32 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 27-Aug-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (Ben Yoris):
Probably you mean Cyber*Storm*PPC to PCI bridge... So, a card that plugs onto the PPC board, not onto the GFX (C*V*PPC) board. (AIK, it's electronically the same as the BlizzardPPC's bus.)
Mediator update : Comment 33 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 27-Aug-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (Marcel):
>I'd rather replace the ZorroIII daughterboard with a PCI
>daughterboard, keeping the insides of my A3000 organized
>and cooler.
And also much slower...
Mediator update : Comment 34 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Kay Are Ulvestad on 27-Aug-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (Remco Komduur):
Valid point, although about the towers, the A1200 version had to sell
better, as the A1200 has next to no space for expansions, while the
A4000 comes in a box which has enough space for most users.
Mediator update : Comment 35 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 27-Aug-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (Kojak):
One thing is "positive/negative" thinking, and another is "realistic" thinking. So, I don't think AG want to waste their investments/remaining credibility, and that Joe Torre wants to make himself ashamed.
Mediator update : Comment 36 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 27-Aug-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 35 (Anonymous):
And regarding "pos/neg", if you get "tails" several times successively (in coin-dropping) the chances are remains sill fifty-fifty...
Mediator update : Comment 37 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Ralph on 27-Aug-2000 22:00 GMT
The CSPPC-PCI bridge was indeed mentioned by Thomas Dellert himself in a recent interview.
What i am curios about is if that bridge will be part of a redesign of the CSPPC (like the
DCE boards obviously have been redesigned already with a different SCSI connector so they
don`t fit into A3k anymore - according to the Vesalia Homepage!) or an add-on solution that
also fits on the existing boards built by phase5.
Mediator update : Comment 38 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 27-Aug-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 37 (Ralph):
You can assume it's an add-on board. Would be brainless to leave out users of exising boards...
Mediator update : Comment 39 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Ralph on 28-Aug-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 38 (Anonymous):
An Add-on would have the disadvantage to be handicapped by that crippled PCI-bridge
(btw: are there all necessary pins on the CVPPC slot available?) with its speed penalty
- or was the bridge on the graphic card?
Anyway, AFAIR Mr. Dellert spoke of a new PCI _BRIDGE_ which could be a little hint that
it will end up in another redesign. Maybe it is the only way to realize that project at
all. And it would be rather senseless to settle a 2nd bridge over an existing one, wouldn't it?
Mediator update : Comment 40 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Yoris on 28-Aug-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 30 (Sinan Gurkan):
Hi Sinan,
AFAIK, a BVision<->PCI bridge is not planned as it would not make sense now that there's the Mediator I've been told.
Anyway, sorry for any misunderstanding, it's a bridge for the CyberStorm PPC not for the CyberVision : you plug it on the CVPPC connector and you have some PCI connection at the other edge.
For the Bvision connector it could nevertheless be a good idea because people may not want to buy the Mediator (a bit expensive no ? What do you think ?) to have 4 PCI slots but may want only one for gfx acceleration.
I suppose we need more information from Mr. Dellert.
Mediator update : Comment 41 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Andrew V. Galinski on 28-Aug-2000 22:00 GMT
I`m afraid the whole thread drifts away from
the place it started.
Just to get it sort of back: any idea WHEN will
Mediator finally be available? What caused the delay?
Mediator update : Comment 42 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Peter on 28-Aug-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 40 (Ben Yoris):
Hi Ben,
Mediator PCI 1200 + S3 VIRGE PCIabout $220
CV64 3D (from DCE)about $220
And I will need ZORRO II (ca. $135) for A1200 to be able to use it.
Can anyone give it to me for free?
Anyway, should I sacrifice Mediator's higher speed?
Sorry, I guess Mediator is worth its price.
BTW. Do you realy believe DCE will develop anything?
Mediator update : Comment 43 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Yoris on 28-Aug-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 42 (Peter):
Hello Peter,
from what I saw on some Web Sites you must count for 140£ for a Mediator.
Then you need a GOOD gfx board. A virge is crap for me : too slow, only 4Mo, no real 3D acceleration. A Voodoo 3 is GOOD : about 100£.
For a total of about 250£ which is not THAT expensive I admit it, but it's not "very cheap" as I heard at the beginning, "so that polish people can afford it".
I do believe Mr. Dellert is developing for the Amiga, for sure :)
Mediator update : Comment 44 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Mike on 28-Aug-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 43 (Ben Yoris):
Hello Peter,
from what I saw on some Web Sites you must count for 140£ for a Mediator.
>
>
What web sites are you looking at? I've seen it for 110+VAT (not sure what taxed you'd pay in Poland :).
>
Then you need a GOOD gfx board. A virge is crap for me : too slow, only 4Mo, no real 3D acceleration. A Voodoo 3 is GOOD : about 100£.
>
At least here in the US, you can get a Voodoo 3 for like $70
For a total of about 250£ which is not THAT expensive I admit it, but it's not "very cheap" as I heard at the beginning, "so that polish people can afford it".
>
Uh, isn't the beauty of the thing that you can now get that Expensive Voodoo 3 if you want it, but the Poles and whoever else can get their $10 Virge card? Even if the Virge is crap, it's as good as/better than a A CV64/3d on a Zorro II, and less expensive. And of course, there's the fact that you now no longer have to pay out the nose for ethernet, sound, etc..
Mediator update : Comment 45 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Yoris on 28-Aug-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 44 (Mike):
Sure you're right.
It wasn't a complaint.
Mediator update : Comment 46 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 28-Aug-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 42 (Peter):
>Anyway, should I sacrifice Mediator's higher speed?
Actually, the Mediator is *much* slower.
Mediator update : Comment 47 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 28-Aug-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 39 (Ralph):
>Anyway, AFAIR Mr. Dellert spoke of a new PCI _BRIDGE_ which
>could be a little hint that it will end up in another redesign.
It seems you cling to this idea. It's possible that they will
*also* redesign later PPC boards. But Mr. Dellert spoke about an
"add-on board" exactly. It's a "bridge" between PCI bus and CSPPC's
GFX bus.
>Maybe it is the only way to realize that project at all.
And maybe not. Maybe Mr. Dellert knows it better. :)
>And it would be rather senseless to settle a 2nd bridge over an
>existing one, wouldn't it?
You can't transform existing boards otherways to PCI, can you? :)
Mediator update : Comment 48 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Ralph on 29-Aug-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 47 (Anonymous):
>>Anyway, AFAIR Mr. Dellert spoke of a new PCI _BRIDGE_ which
>>could be a little hint that it will end up in another redesign.
>
> It seems you cling to this idea. It's possible that they will
> *also* redesign later PPC boards.
Well, as they already _have_ redesigned the boards to not fit
into an A3000D anymore...
> But Mr. Dellert spoke about an "add-on board" exactly.
Oops - didn't get that one.
> It's a "bridge" between PCI bus and CSPPC's GFX bus.
Isn't the CSPPC's GFX bus already a PCI bus?
>>`Maybe it is the only way to realize that project at all.
>
> And maybe not. Maybe Mr. Dellert knows it better. :)
Sure. I just wrote my thoughts without claiming them to be a fact =)
>>And it would be rather senseless to settle a 2nd bridge over an
>>existing one, wouldn't it?
>
> You can't transform existing boards otherways to PCI, can you? :)
As i wrote above: Isn't the CSPPC's GFX bus already a PCI bus? The
Permedia chip is PCI and the CVPPC basically a pci card with a
different formfactor and different connector to fit into Amiga 3/4kD.
The only thing i am not sure of is whether the bridge to PCI is actually
on the CSPPC or the CVPPC. If it would be on the CSPPC you already have
PCI on that bus and therefore it would not make sense to settle another
bridge (PCI-PCI :) on top of it. You would only need a mechanical converter.
That's what i wanted to say :)
Besides: That DCE-PCI project is actually done by the ESCENA team AFAIK.
So some slight doubts about the availability and release date are allowed...
Mediator update : Comment 49 of 49ANN.lu
Posted by Frank on 29-Aug-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 48 (Ralph):
The PCI bridge sits on the CVPPC
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