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[News] QNX RealTime Platform PreviewANN.lu
Posted on 28-Aug-2000 20:12 GMT by Christian Kemp18 comments
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In a news item on the QNX RealTime Platform Preview, Slashdot also mentioned Phoenix. Not surprising, given that Mike Bouma, a still very much active Amiga user, submitted it. Mike Bouma writes "Since the QNX RtP will be free for personal use this late-september, this BeNews preview will see how QNX RtP compares to BeOS and to free Linux systems. QSSL is a member of the Phoenix Platform Consortium which goal is to produce an Amiga-like successor OS. QNXStart.com will be a starting point for the QNX RtP community and is first in a series of Phoenix partner websites."
QNX RealTime Platform Preview : Comment 1 of 18ANN.lu
Posted by John Payne on 28-Aug-2000 22:00 GMT
There's an expanation of what QNX means by a "realtime platform" at
http://get.qnx.com/whatis.html
Leave it to a company that specializes in embeded realtime OSes to
make such a subtle point...
QNX RealTime Platform Preview : Comment 2 of 18ANN.lu
Posted by Johan Forsberg on 28-Aug-2000 22:00 GMT
This news has to do *what* with Amiga?
I'm sorry if I'm raining on QNX's parade (and their afilliates), but I think that this whole QNX gamble/pipe dream only serves to divide the already noexistant-except-to-a-very-trained-eye Amiga market into even more camps.
QNX has little to loose in this situiation. If there's a new Amiga analog based upon QNX, and it does succed more or less, then QNX will have the world to gain (0.01% chance). If Phoenix falls on their faces, however, QNX will be very swift to divest themselves of any association with them.
In any case, it's bad for the Amiga community. In the first case, the Amiga market will yet again be subdidived, transforming a minuscle market into a microscopic one. In the second case, all the effort of many people I do respect will have been wasted for several years.
OTOH, (and it's a very strong hand, for me) - Phoenix seems to me to be more likely to create a *real* next generation Amiga, ie. a machine that embodies as many of the virtues of the classic Amiga as possible, while extending it's capabilites as far as possible. Amiga.com seems to be much more directed towards throwing away everthing in the Amiga that does not fit into their business schemes (ie. set top boxes, handhelds...)
I hope to Dog that I'm wrong in the above assesment.
If you think that I have had a strange change of opinions in this post, from lashing QNX to almost supporting them, remeber the probablility cited above...
I suppport QNX 100% * 0.01% (probability of success).
QNX RealTime Platform Preview : Comment 3 of 18ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 28-Aug-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Johan Forsberg):
I have yet to see anything from QNX that inspires me.
Moreover, they are so intricately tied to the x86 architecture that QNX is tantamount to going x86.
Do we want that?
(oh yeah, before you dispute the x86 claim, these are Dan Dodge's own words).
QNX RealTime Platform Preview : Comment 4 of 18ANN.lu
Posted by Martin Tilsted on 28-Aug-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (Anonymous):
It it a futile hope that SOMEDAY someone wil understand that the QNX RTP is NOT
based on Qnx but on Neutrino which in fact today does run(You can call and order it if you have the money) on x86 mips and ppc.
QNX RealTime Platform Preview : Comment 5 of 18ANN.lu
Posted by greenboy on 29-Aug-2000 22:00 GMT
It's funny how many forms of cowardice there are these days hiding behind anonymity, or even falsifying somebody else's name. Always spreading joyful FUD, the little pixies, as they attempt to whittle away with their little little knives at what they consider their enemies ;  }
Johan, on the other hand speaks frankly yet does not hide. Worthy of respectful address. So hey, Johan, it may seem that the market is divided down by the presence of QNX and Phoenix. But we - Phoenix - were in fact around before Gatemiga had ever considered selling off The Name. We saw that Gatemiga totally ignored Amigan developers and had no care for their survival or betterment, and we knew that was wrong.
...Really, QNX is going to go somewhere fine and far with or without the presence of Phoenix. But we are doing what we can to fulfill our mission and are very pleased with the superior company and the fast, responsive, and flexible architecture. We hope that we can contrinute to its betterment for desktop and infotainment purposes because frankly it has a bright future ahead. We want to be a part of that.
It doesn't hurt that QNX has been amenable to people also developing for Amiga Inc, which certainly must be difficult to do and still never leave the realm of gentlemanly behavior. Try as hard as I have, I have wrestled with the dilemma with brief instances of human frailty. So. What QNX has done increases a developer's choices, and ultimately the user's options.
All in all, the past 11 months in association with QSSL working on Phoenix and QNX's RealTime Platform has been enjoyable and enlightening. This has been an incredible opportunity so far, like being around when Lorraine was coming up in many respects. And I applaud them as fine people as well as inspiring business and technology leaders.
-- greenboy ---
QNX RealTime Platform Preview : Comment 6 of 18ANN.lu
Posted by Mike on 29-Aug-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Johan Forsberg):
*
This news has to do *what* with Amiga?
*
Well, it doesn't run on MY Amiga, I'll grant you that. Of course, the new stuff from Amiga doesn't run on my Amiga either, so that doesn't have much to do with Amiga either :)
That isn't intended as flamebait, it's just meant to draw a parallel. A similar parallel would be that, much of what makes 'the Amiga' special is not just the Amiga hardware and OS, owned by Amiga Inc., but also the Amiga developers who've kept putting out new software, hardware, and information about your Amigas for the past 15 or so years. And important contingent of this group is present in Phoenix. I would humbly submit that one without the other would have relegated your Amiga to the shelf a LONG, LONG time ago.
Anyway, the fact is, many of the developers are going to develop for QNX as well as Elate. In fact, given Amiga's hosted-on-other OS's strategy, it would seem there's lots of room for cooperation. This is the last I heard on the issue from Amiga Inc- that of course QNX and Phoenix's other developers are, of course, encouraged to work with Amiga and Amiga's new products, and that Phoenix is a good source of support for developers in the Amiga community. Have you heard something different from this? Perhaps there should be a stronger effort on the part of Amiga Inc to reaffirm that this is their position? Surely they aren't keen on Amiga users dumping all over their partners :) (although they seem to have a hard enough time getting Amiga users not to dump all over them :)
*
I'm sorry if I'm raining on QNX's parade (and their afilliates), but I think that
this whole QNX gamble/pipe dream only serves to divide the already
noexistant-except-to-a-very-trained-eye Amiga market into even more
camps.
*
Divide who? QNX- really their afilliates, Phoenix, represent a large number of Amiga developers who are ready/working on support for both the 'new' Amiga and the 'classic'. In any case, you're right about the overly small number of people involved though. The lesson I would learn from that number, however, is that if Amiga or QNX is betting the farm on whether it has the support of current Amiga users, it's already lost!
*
QNX has little to loose in this situiation. If there's a new Amiga analog
based upon QNX, and it does succed more or less, then QNX will have the
world to gain (0.01% chance). If Phoenix falls on their faces, however, QNX
will be very swift to divest themselves of any association with them.
*
With respect, I'm not sure you're noting the relationship between developers and the platform very well. Phoenix includes platform developers like QNX and Amiga, but mainly a bunch of developers in the traditional sense. Mostly, Phoenix is a support for them. Thus, what you are saying seems to me to amount to "If all of the traditional developers with their hardware and software products fall flat on their face, it won't hurt QNX a bit." Intuitively, this isn't true. It's much more likely QNX will fall flat on its face than a whole array of developers developing many different projects for several different platforms. In fact, in the short run at least, I submit the opposite will be true. Phoenix's developers can always go work on Amiga if QNX RTP turns out to suck, and they can work on QNX if Elate turns out to suck. If both are good, they'll develop for both. It's conceivable that the synergy between both (if they are both good and cooperative) could expand the market for both. In short, I see it as a win-win for Phoenix developers.
*
In any case, it's bad for the Amiga community. In the first case, the Amiga
market will yet again be subdidived, transforming a minuscle market into a
microscopic one. In the second case, all the effort of many people I do
respect will have been wasted for several years.
*
OK, I guess we just disagree :) I've tried to point out why developers shouldn't be divided over who/what to support. They have the most to gain by working together to expand the market as much as possible. As far as Amiga users, like I said, I don't think there are enough to matter even if they do become divided. The only talk I hear of division and conspiracies, and all of that comes from Amiga USERS anyway. I suggest most of them need to chill out, since at this point there's nothing to 'divide up' over. Even if Amiga and QNX were publicly stated non cooperative blood enemies, which they aren't, neither have given any users anything to use yet :)
*
OTOH, (and it's a very strong hand, for me) - Phoenix seems to me to be
more likely to create a *real* next generation Amiga, ie. a machine that
embodies as many of the virtues of the classic Amiga as possible, while
extending it's capabilites as far as possible. Amiga.com seems to be much
more directed towards throwing away everthing in the Amiga that does not
fit into their business schemes (ie. set top boxes, handhelds...)
*
So why make it a zero sum game? I agree with your general assessment, although I might (based upon your tone) see more merit in the cross-platform potential of Amiga. As you point out here though, Amiga and QNX aren't exactly completely competing products. It will be (but it must actually be done!) possible for these guys to work together to help each reach their goal, and Phoenix will be a vehicle for that IF it actually comes to pass.
QNX RealTime Platform Preview : Comment 7 of 18ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 29-Aug-2000 22:00 GMT
I personally welcome the choice of another OS.
However, I have serious doubts as to whether QNX will be able to overcome it's image of a proprietary Unix/Linux flavor.
I also have serious doubts that an embedded systems company can deliver a full blown OS. These embedded systems people are really something else, totally obsessed with memory foot-prints and CPU cycles.
And yes, that applies to TAO as well. Good thing it's Amiga doing the higher layers of the OS.
QNX is likely to become another Beos: cool but not really going anywhere.
Personally, I'll say: roll it on! But don't expect us to support it unless there is actually a market.
QNX RealTime Platform Preview : Comment 8 of 18ANN.lu
Posted by greenboy on 29-Aug-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
<BizarroWorld Redux>
I personally welcome the choice of another OS. However, I have serious doubts as to whether Tao will be able to overcome it's image of a proprietary POSIX amputee. I also have serious doubts that an embedded systems company can deliver a full blown OS. These embedded systems people are really something else, totally obsessed with memory foot-prints and CPU cycles.
And yes, that applies to QNX as well. Good thing it's Phoenix doing the higher layers of the OS. Tao is likely to become another Amiga: cool but not really going anywhere. Personally, I'll say: roll it on! But don't expect us to support it unless there is actually a market. </BizarroWorld Redux> . . .
. . . Ben, you seem to be imagining your company is the center of an alternative OS universe's stability and glory. Sorry, but you are not. You are one of many, many, many developers. And nobody expects *you* to support QNX. It ultimately would be foolish to think that matters. But it is likely that at some date you will see a good entertainment market there.
You also come up woefully short when it comes to research on QNX's company strength and product profile. That is fine as far as your company is concerned, but like so many others, you seem bent on convincing eveybody else around you that *your* decision is the *only* decision. You fling sharp phrases about like Ninja stars without considering that you can be comfortable without trying to take from others comfort.
The fact of the matter is that right now QNX's RTP has the best profile around for scaling from small embedded devices up to infotainment devices large-scale virtual computers by benefit of some remarkable transparent networking. That it all allows a developer to cover an incredible number of markets on a nonhosted machine running the same high-performance OS is a boon. And that it is possible and likely to get a nice user desktop out of the bargain is something we at Phoenix are happy about.
So quit trying to crap on us and get on with *your* development {which is really quite nice as I am sure you know; I would not presume to detract from your expertise or your reputation). Your *work* is worth more to Amiga Inc than your attempts to kick at a percieved obstacle - an obstacle which is much too big to do anything but bust up your toes.
Time to do what it is you want to do as others follow their chosen paths.
-- greenboy ---
QNX RealTime Platform Preview : Comment 9 of 18ANN.lu
Posted by XDelusion on 29-Aug-2000 22:00 GMT
Well I have the Developer's Beta of QNX, which is basically the Demo you guys are waiting on with a few more bugs :)
Anyhow so far I would have to say that I think I will be in Love, it seems really responsive, and a bit more put together than Be
in many cases, I can see this taking off, but the main theme here is:
In the end I need an OS that I can burn CD's on, and on top of that I need to be able to support not only
BIN, and ISO, but NRG, and Disc Juggler Images as well, since it is impossible to burn a bootable Dreamcast game
from a BIN or ISO image.
I need support for my ATI Rage 128, I can only make my movies on Windows, and that sucks cause Windows is totally not
the OS for the job, you don't know how many times I get 40 minutes into a recording when suddenly Windows stops for a brain fart
and the video digitizatino or audio fails, and I have to re-boot and start again.
I need Emulators, and the ability to easily support my Beloved Microshaft Sidewinder and 3DFX HammerHeard.
I need Real Player, I need awsome support for all exsiting Video formats, and a way to convert asf to MPEG, so as to
take Microsofts Video dominance plan and shove it up there....
I need a browser that supports it all, and don't crash, (never had one of those).
Other than that, I can't think of anything that comes to mind right off the bat.
QNX RealTime Platform Preview : Comment 10 of 18ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 31-Aug-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (greenboy):
Yeah, Mr Full of crap greenboy, and your QSSL vaporware.
Instead of flaming Ben, in this unprofessional and immature way, how about
showing us what your beloved QSSL and Phoenix crap did?
You seem to be suffering from hypocrisy, you posted here stating that you hate
people that hide behind fake names, yet you have to tell us your real
name, greenboy.
Now what exactly have your QSSL or phoenix crap done so far?
Zero, ziltch, nothing, except for hot air, and a web site.
I am not affeliated with Hyperion or Ben, I'm just one very happy customer.
Compare that to what you have produced so far.
And I object you speaking in plural, on behalf of other Amiga users, your type
certainly cannot speak for me, so be careful when you use words like "us", "nobody"
and "we", you sound like a politician, and a sad one too.
It is really disapointing to see how you showed your sheer incopetence while flaming
him, when you claimed that they don't know what QNX is, maybe you should do a bit of research
yourself.
The bottom line is, Mr greenboy, is to put the money where your mouth is, and when you
have something out there, then start acting in this arrogant way, but until then I
strongly recommend that you refrain from charging at people while exposing your
sheer incompetence.
QNX RealTime Platform Preview : Comment 11 of 18ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 31-Aug-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (Anonymous):
Both QNX RTP and new AmigaOS are very promising. QNX RTP could be what other operation systems are today, but done right the right and clean way, with the maximum performance possible. AmigaOS is more promising in the long run in my opinion and offers something totally new. QNX RTP would be the optimal host OS for Amiga, FAR BETTER than Linux or Windows. I hope Amigans can learn from eachother to make both a great success. It is about time M$ gets some serious competition, maybe they will finally invest in a got OS in response. About time too.
QNX RealTime Platform Preview : Comment 12 of 18ANN.lu
Posted by zigzag on 31-Aug-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 9 (XDelusion):
Hi all, I just wanted to answer to this comment, infact the current beta has a really good port of realplayer G2 to QNX RTP. The drivers you want will all come, as well as the cd burning software etc.
UAE for example already exists as an emulator, so that is all on the way. Have patience or code your own drivers! :)
--zigzag
QNX RealTime Platform Preview : Comment 13 of 18ANN.lu
Posted by zigzag on 31-Aug-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (Anonymous):
Okay, very bright there, your response is nothing but flame, you are beind ignorant,
obviously phoenix and greenboy know way more than you know about QNX, RTP and QSSL.
There is no need to be affraid, we are coming wheather you like it or not, period.
Dont write pointless responses that just flame people, learn to read properly and maybe
youll want to do some research tonight (if you know what the meaning of that word is?).
Im sorry, I know my response is just the same as yours, but Im affraid I have no other choice.
--zigzag
QNX RealTime Platform Preview : Comment 14 of 18ANN.lu
Posted by Danaris on 04-Sep-2000 22:00 GMT
It is amazing that THE TWO most promising OS developments namely Amiga/Tao/Phoenix and QSSL/Phoenix, are done with the help and drive of the AMiga community. I hope the two will be just as good as the classic was in 1985. :) At least with the support of the Amiga communty this is where I want to be!
QNX RealTime Platform Preview : Comment 15 of 18ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 07-Sep-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (zigzag):
| Okay, very bright there, your response is nothing but flame, you are beind ignorant,
| obviously phoenix and greenboy know way more than you know about QNX, RTP and QSSL.
| There is no need to be affraid, we are coming wheather you like it or not, period.
| Dont write pointless responses that just flame people, learn to read properly and maybe
| youll want to do some research tonight (if you know what the meaning of that word is?).
| Im sorry, I know my response is just the same as yours, but Im affraid I have no other choice.
Man, I just laugh at stupid people like you zigzag.
You're either blind or stupid, or a combination of both.
Greenboy's response to Ben was a flame, but you but licker ignored that, my reponse
to greenboy was a flame, since he sounded so stupid and arrogant while he couldn't
produce anything to his credibility and to his QSSL vaporware.
Your post is not bright either, stupid, and it is meaningless and worthless.
Unlike you and other idiots, some of us spent moeny on our machines, and if
it wasn't for people like Hypeion and Nova Design and others, we would have
been starving for software by now, while you and your beloved QSSL and greenboy
are busy flaming and wasting time in meaningless mailing lists and meetings, and
posting political drivel and crap,others were working hard and shipping
products, something that Mr greenboy has yet to do.
And I am not afraid, unlike you, you speak out of fear and failure to comprehend
what others write.
Next time read better, before you start licking someone's balls.
You don't know me so refrain from claiming that you or anyone esle knows better than me
until you prove it, and try to get some decency in your words, you might like it.
QNX RealTime Platform Preview : Comment 16 of 18ANN.lu
Posted by dammy on 08-Sep-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (Anonymous):
Posted by Anonymous (216.234.161.71) on 08-Sep-2000
|Man, I just laugh at stupid people like you zigzag.
|You're either blind or stupid, or a combination of both
Wow Mr.216.234.161.71 (spaceproxy.com), for a gutless wonder, you sure talk big and bad...
QNX RealTime Platform Preview : Comment 17 of 18ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 08-Sep-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (dammy):
|Wow Mr.216.234.161.71 (spaceproxy.com), for a gutless wonder, you sure talk big and bad...
Wow, it's Randy Vice the village fool, the mat@box looney flaming me.
What's up little boy, no PIOS One shipping got you wondering on the net like an idiot?
Speaking of gutless, why aren't you posting your real name, hypocrite?
Just learned how to look an up IP addresses, bravo, you learned something atlast.
Now start learning respect, loser.
You are one pathetic loser and will stay a loser.
Go back to advocating vaporware like the PIOS One and leave us alone, loser.
QNX RealTime Platform Preview : Comment 18 of 18ANN.lu
Posted by dammy on 09-Sep-2000 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (Anonymous):
Well Mr. Anonymous (216.234.161.71), you may get your wish. This is the last Amiga centric base that I currently read, and it maybe my last. I've found that the population of Amiga folks who are not Ruebots is decreasing as the months roll on. I've given up AOS/WB for dead and found there are other OSs that fit my needs quiet nicely that do not have gutless wonders hiding in the shadows.
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