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[News] ACE 2000 show reportANN.lu
Posted on 29-Oct-2000 12:14 GMT by Christian Kemp22 comments
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Craig Delahoy posted a comprehensive ACE 2000 show report. Well worth checking out, since it's not only well written, but also includes photos with descriptions of who's on them. :)
ACE 2000 show report : Comment 1 of 22ANN.lu
Posted by Troels Ersking on 28-Oct-2000 22:00 GMT
Well it's nice to see thst there's allready a Photogenics version available for AmigaDE (aswelll as Win/linux:-)
Nice reading with some good pictures.....Anyone knows how well Photogenics performs running hosted on winblows/linux???
ACE 2000 show report : Comment 2 of 22ANN.lu
Posted by Radfoo on 28-Oct-2000 22:00 GMT
I'd like to see some screeshots of Photogenics.
ACE 2000 show report : Comment 3 of 22ANN.lu
Posted by Craig Delahoy on 29-Oct-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Troels Ersking):
Thanks for your kind comments about my Show Report.
Bill didn't dwell too long on Photogenics, but it ran on Windows via the AmigaDE without any perceptible loss in performance. The image you see was loaded in seconds, and the yelloow blobs are where Bill was doing some simple airbrush painting over the top of the image. It was all fast and real-time - nodelay whatsoever. I would compare it to my running the same process in Photoshop on my PIII Windows machines at work.
This was an impressive demonstration - not the least because it only took Paul 3 weeks to port the program to AmigaDE, and suddenly he had a version for Windows, Linux, OS/2, etc, etc!
ACE 2000 show report : Comment 4 of 22ANN.lu
Posted by Kresimir Rogic on 29-Oct-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Troels Ersking):
From what I saw, it was quite quick. I have Video of it in action on my MiniDV, so I'll upload some of the footage as soon as a friend of mine secures quite a few Mb's of webspace for me :)
The Mpeg anim was quite funny too :) you'll have to watch the video to see why the mpeg was funny ;)
ACE 2000 show report : Comment 5 of 22ANN.lu
Posted by greenboy on 29-Oct-2000 23:00 GMT
Christian, the blurb you wrote here for your item that this is a "comprehensive" ACE2K report Craig Delahoy has written simply is NOT true. Though a couple platforms were fleetingly mentioned, the report quickly became a PR blurb for Amiga Inc - which surely is less than a comprehensive show report should be.
Why am I commenting? After all, this IS an Amiga forum. But because lots of Amigans are also developing with the Realtime Platform from QNX, which had a strong presence at the show, I feel I must. I also believe it is germane because of QNX's part in these latter days of the story we have lived. Yet not even a *mention* of this company or platform which has many in the Amiga community involved.
I similarly found fault with a report published on a non-Amiga mainstream site by one of the show's promoters, who made it sound like an AMIGA show - which it was not. At least it wasn't to all the people involved with other efforts who humped gear, paid for travel and lodging, prepared demos, and paid for exhibit space. In fact, I've been disappointed that *publicly* only a reporter at Amiga.de has written a report that even acknowledges other Alternative Computing efforts. They (he) did a great job of summarizing a large variety of efforts. I was pleased to see that Teemu had linked it:
It is ironic that a platform such as RTP that has Amigans interested and active - Phoenix members, Amigan people from "down under" and everywhere else - is so readily dismissed. My feelings about a dearth of remarks about REBOL's participation at ACE are similar. As an aside, reports on ANN and elsewhere about Seal-O-Rama were also blind to Phoenix and QNX. The efforts of Ideas2Reality to demonstrate RTP before its preview release with the permission of QNX UK were simply not mentioned though Ami/RTP cross-developers Bernard Giltrap and associates went to great trouble to be there representing Phoenix, and to have something significant to show. Again, an irony: the only report to give ANY coverage of these guys was that of Amiga Inc supporter
Gary Storm, found on the Seal website itself:
So. There isn't a problem with Craig Delahoy's report per se, but it certainly is not *comprehensive* as was billed. It does not represent the breadth of the show, or even the breadth of efforts people from the Amiga community are involved with. I can only think you consider it comprehensive because there was a fair amount of detail, though only of that which surrounds Amiga Inc.
Thanks for the forum though, and thanks for listening.
<-- greenboy ---<<<    a phoenixguy
ACE 2000 show report : Comment 6 of 22ANN.lu
Posted by Christian Kemp on 29-Oct-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (greenboy):
I stand by my opinion. :) While I try to cover QNX as well as any other "alternatives" to Amiga Inc's way, this page is not "QNX Network News". As such, the report was a comprehensive summary as far as the generic orientation is concerned.
Now, I understand that you, and other people, want to get QNX mentioned, but I think in some cases you are clearly expecting too much from the Amiga press. Or rather, some QNX supporters are accusing everybody else of doing an anti-QNX witchhunt, which is clearly not the case.
Sure, there are a lot of Amiga people involved in QNX/Phoenix/wherever. But there are also a lot of ex-Amiga people in the Wintel industry now. Does that mean that an Amiga page must cover Windows in a show report?
Of course, QNX may have technical advantages over other platforms, and also over Amiga's new system (whatever it may finally turn out to be). But then again, people also said that about Betamax or the "Commodore Amiga". So requesting more QNX coverage because QNX is a better solution than Amiga's is also not really appropriate on an Amiga page.
I shouldn't get into this kind of discussion, but I noticed a growing trend of discussions like this one on Moo Bunny, and I don't really want that same phenomen to start here on ANN, too.
ACE 2000 show report : Comment 7 of 22ANN.lu
Posted by SnuggleBunny on 29-Oct-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Christian Kemp):
Standing by the description of this report as being "comprehensive" is plain silly, not something we come to expect from you Christian.
Unless someone changed the meaning of the word "comprehensive" since the printing of my dictionary, covering every single exhibitor EXCEPT QNX is rather blatantly incomplete reporting.
Even OSX got a mention, though not a complimentary one admittedly, but that was the valid opinion of the author.
Simply ignoring a platform considerably more relevant to us than OSX and claiming the report to be comprehensive is not valid, it is not an opinion, it is a plain and simple error or lie.
I know it will deflate your ego a little to admit your error but examples of ignorance such as this can only damage your excellent reputation.
ACE 2000 show report : Comment 8 of 22ANN.lu
Posted by greenboy on 29-Oct-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Christian Kemp):
I'm not going to waste a lot of time debating this, just saying my piece. But given the connections between QNX and our community, and the current number of developers interested in both (some who are increasingly troubled by seeing what it means to them, and thinking of developing only for QNX because of the treatment they have recieved from supposedly their peers) there is if nothing else some public interest in QNX around our Amiga neighborhood. It is or should be newsworthy. At least as newsworthy as the fleeting mentions of Linux and MacOS.
And when one of the show's promoters in a mainstream-delivered (ie not Amiga-community) site writes a report of the sho up as if it was an AMIGA show - well, that just doesn't seem too fair to anybody else who paid to participate in the show, QNX-based or not.
Another thing to consider: as so many people seem to view this as some competitive turf war (though the principals do not, really, at this point), you would think these battle-minded people would WANT to know what the competition is up to. Especially with a technically savvy, and sure-to-be-around-for-a-long-time company like QNX. Amigans have in the past prided themselves on their technical acumen, but now it seems as if isolationism and ignorance is valued.
I know developers are not served well by closing themselves off to news, ideas and implementations, and I doubt the potential users of potential platforms are either. Of course, we COULD just all read the endless rehashes and duplications and speculations on the same press releases over and over to fill our time (and your pages;) . . .
<-- greenboy ---<<<
ACE 2000 show report : Comment 9 of 22ANN.lu
Posted by Lancelot Du Lac on 29-Oct-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (greenboy):
Please, give it a rest. So QNX wasn't mentioned in the report, boo-hoo, get over it and stop acting like it was Christian's fault and whining to him about it. Go whine to the author of the article that he should have given QNX at least as much attention as Linux and Mac OS X. The report was by no means comprehensive of the Mac or Linux happenings either but you don't see any of them crying foul at the "Comprehensive" blurb.
Fact is, Christian is right, it was a comprehensive report. It was comprehensive to the subject of this web site, you know, AMIGA Network News not, Amiga/QNX/MAC/Linux Network News, but AMIGA Network News. If I were on the QNX.Start web site, and saw a link to a "Comprehensive report" concerning some trade show, I would expect the report to a comprehensive report about the QNX happenings and have very little concerning the other systems there. (Why would a QNX developer want to wade through pages of information concerning other systems if all he wants to know is what's going on with QNX?)
That's why you have Amiga dedicated magazines, Windows dedicated magazines, Linux dedicated magazines, MAC dedicated magazines, need I go on? I don't see much more than a blurb or two once every blue moon in a MAC magazine about AMIGA, do I complain? No. Perhaps one of the QNX supporters out there that was at the ACE2K show needs to write a comprehensive report at the QNX happenings and post it to the QNX.Start web site, then QNX will get a bit more press.
This constant QNX/Amiga One Bickering back and forth is simply disgusting, although accurately predicted the moment Gateway axed the partnership with QNX. (Remember all those cries of "NOOO THIS WILL SPLIT THE AMIGA COMMUNITY!", all this bickering makes me think it may actually have.)
So please, stop whining to the person who said “comprehensive" on his AMIGA dedicated web site instead of “comprehensive Amiga”. If you don't like the fact that the article didn't mention QNX, then maybe you should write the author of the article so he knows, instead of complaining to someone who can't change the article.
One last thing, and I hate to bring this up but I feel I must. I really don’t think it helps your cause any by posting links to this argument over on Moo-Bunny, Greenboy. It makes you look very childish. You act like your defending the rights of interested Amigan’s to read information about QNX, but all you are doing is making more and more Amigan’s sick of QNX. By bickering about what Amigan’s want on an Amiga dedicated web site, you are almost insulting all Amigan’s out there. Each individual Amigan knows what they want, and it isn’t necessarily what you think. By constantly bitching that Amiga dedicated web sites need to carry more QNX news because so many Amigan’s want to learn more about QNX is almost implying that all Amigan’s are to stupid to follow a link to a QNX dedicated web site and then bookmark it. And your posts over at Moo-Bunny saying “Look at me, I’m striking a blow against ignorant Amigan’s and informing them about QNX! Check it out here on A.N.N.” is enough to turn one’s stomach.
It truly disgusts me when someone thinks they must “fight against ignorance” and force information down the throats of people who just might not want to hear it. It’s one thing to give everyone a heads up on a great QNX web site that gives them the information they want to know about QNX, it’s another to force those capable of surfing to the QNX news site, but might not want to, to read the news items anyway. If that’s not bad enough, you than insult anybody who does not share your interests, by saying, “Amigans have in the past prided themselves on their technical acumen, but now it seems as if isolationism and ignorance is valued”. I’m sorry, but I did not realize that my lack of interest in MAC OS makes me ignorant. Let’s go over your interests Greenboy so I can call you ignorant the moment I find something I’m interested in, but you are not.
Last but not least, I want to make the point that this is not a bash against QNX in any way. I think QNX is a great company from what I’ve seen and I even have QNX RTP as one of the three OS’s on my box at home that I am actively learning. What I am strongly opposed to is the implied statement that Amigan’s are somehow incapable of following links and setting bookmarks to the point that they have to read every bit of news that QNX releases on an AMIGA web site is down right insulting. It’s even more insulting when you think of the simple fact that it wasn’t Christian who failed to mention QNX, it was the author of the article. Add even more insult for the fact that some people are expecting the author of an AMIGA dedicated web site to clarify that an article for a computer show that Amiga Inc. was in attendance of, was only comprehensive Amiga information and not comprehensive for everyone else.
Just as I can assume a report to be about QNX on a QNX dedicated web site, I should also be able to assume that a report is about Amiga on an Amiga web site, unless otherwise stated.
ACE 2000 show report : Comment 10 of 22ANN.lu
Posted by Christian Kemp on 29-Oct-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 9 (Lancelot Du Lac):
Rather than repeating what I already said, and/or starting yet another flame war in the "good old" MUI/ClassAct, H&P/P5, QNX/Amiga, DCE/Elbox, ..., tradition, I'll just say that I pretty much wholeheartedly agree with this comment, and that I probably couldn't have worded it better.
This is my last statement on this matter before this article moves off the main page and is promptly forgotten by anyone, anyway.
ACE 2000 show report : Comment 11 of 22ANN.lu
Posted by Mark Loyd on 29-Oct-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (Christian Kemp):
Hi Christian,
I don't know about anyone else, but considering
this site is called AMIGA Network News, if people
want to complain about the lack of QNX, Linux,
Windows or MacOS X coverage here, tell them to
go pound salt. If I want to know about that stuff
there are sites dedicated to it. I come here because
I want to know what's going on with AMIGA. I'd much
rather hear the details of the Photogenics demo than
see bandwidth wasted on this.
ACE 2000 show report : Comment 12 of 22ANN.lu
Posted by greenboy on 29-Oct-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (Christian Kemp):
> Christian, mentioning comment 9 :
>I'll just say that I pretty much wholeheartedly agree with this comment, and that I probably couldn't have worded it better.
Then you have a pretty poor grasp of the language and the issues, Christian. Maybe you view this as a minority issue, and thus it is easier to push it aside than really think about what it means. After all, it might not be something that concerns you personally.
But it does concern many developers, many who are also interested in developing for Ami. To them, opportunities to increase their bottom line and their programming skills may be the rationale for developing on two platforms (more if they do MorphOS, AROS, Classic stuff) that have ties with the Amiga. It is possible that this strategy may help them to survive the early period, or at least to bring knowledge across the gap in aither direction so that ultimately all may benefit.
Again, I feel you have taken a pretty cavalier attitude about it all. I do not wish to antagonize you or others (no flame wars for me thanks), but I do believe the message I attempt to impart has a certain worthiness.
<-- greenboy ---<<<
ACE 2000 show report : Comment 13 of 22ANN.lu
Posted by greenboy on 29-Oct-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 9 (Lancelot Du Lac):
Lancelot, nobody has been talking about FORCING anybody to read any news items. I won't waste anybody's time on details - and just again mention that what I have been talking about has a certain relevance to the Amiga marketplace.
You misrepresented quite a bit of what I said. That is nothing to be proud of, though it took a certain wit.
ACE 2000 show report : Comment 14 of 22ANN.lu
Posted by Lancelot Du Lac on 30-Oct-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (greenboy):
If you are not trying to force anyone to read about QNX then why are you complaining about an article written by an Amiga User who has created an Amiga dedicated website and writes about the Amiga happenings at the Ace2k report left out QNX in the report. If it were me, I would be complaining about the fact the QNXStart.com has not one single QNXreport written about the Ace2k show and not the fact that Amiga web sites fail to mention QNX. It appears QNX is doing it's own disservice.
You need to read and understand what I was saying before responding, Greenboy. I don't have any problem with you posting links about QNX and trying to inform the Amiga community about QNX. I simply have a major problem with complaints that AMIGA websites aren't giving QNX enough news space. Especially since Amiga web sites are giving QNX a hell of alot more news space than I can see QNXStart.com giving AmigaDE.
ACE 2000 show report : Comment 15 of 22ANN.lu
Posted by gary_c on 30-Oct-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (Lancelot Du Lac):
I guess this site would more accurately be called AmigaInc Network News, judging by the criteria for legitimate news stories. Never mind the real scope of current activities of people in "the Amiga community," who are involved in projects that carry on the spirit of the original Amiga computer (arguably with as much more legitimacy that Amiga Inc's STB/IA strategy). If it's related to Corporate Amiga -- whether it's a cell phone or a cable box or an application layer on Windows or Linux -- then it's AMIGA NEWS. If it's a project of original Amiga employees and/or long-time Amiga developers and users to capture and extend the original Amiga spirit -- but it's based on a kernel/OS other than Amiga's, um, I mean Tao Group's Elate [:)], then it's not AMIGA NEWS. What a crock.
Unfortunately it seems some people posting here are so locked into name brands that they can't see the deeper reality. And reminders of reality only upset them. Again, please consider renaming the site; the current name implies that this isn't an Amiga Inc PR vehicle, which could mislead some visitors who are actually looking for all news relevant to the greater Amiga computing community.
-- gary_c
ACE 2000 show report : Comment 16 of 22ANN.lu
Posted by gary_c on 30-Oct-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (Lancelot Du Lac):
It seems to me QNXstart has its hands full just getting up to speed. The site's only been up a month or so, I guess, about the same length of time that QNX RTP has been available. On the other hand there are many Amiga-related sites, established for quite a while, so including a broad scope of topics isn't so much of a stretch. I'm sure that as more "Amiga-extended-family" web sites come along, it'll be easier to include the full range of news. The TeamAmiga Central site, which is in the planning stage, for example, expects to cover what Skal Loret coined "Amiga Squared" which means *all* the activities of Amiga-community people that carry on in some form the old Amiga computer legacy. This would include Ami/Elate, QNX RTP, MorphOS, AROS, and whatever else fits. This "it's Amiga computing/it's not Amiga computing" arguing is just bullshit, especially when AmigaInc itself is outsourcing so much of its future system. I don't deny the benefits of that strategy, but it obviously remaps the topography for people claiming the moral high ground. Better to judge the results of all these efforts, when they're closer to completion. See then what fits and what doesn't.
-- gary_c
ACE 2000 show report : Comment 17 of 22ANN.lu
Posted by Lancelot Du Lac on 30-Oct-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (gary_c):
Contrary to the apparent popular belief, I have never once said KEEP QNX OFF OF THIS SITE. Quite the opposite actually, I'm ALL FOR QNX NEWS. What get's my goat is when an article is clearly a comprehensive Amiga report is posted on a web site that currently is dedicated to the Amiga as the main topic of interest, and someone gets upset because the article, "didn't mention QNX". On top of that, he complains that Christian was wrong in calling the article comprehensive.
I'm sorry, but if I see an article on QNXstart.com about a comprehensive report of some show. I am going to assume the comprehensive part is about QNX and, if it mentions anything else at all, it will be a very small blurb in passing. That is the assumption one makes when surfing a web site with QNX in the title. Just like one should make that assumption when a "comprehensive report" is linked from a website with Amiga in the title.
I'm sorry if I sound like I'm anti-QNX, I am not. I am anti-complaining about nonesense. The author made no effort to fool anyone that his ACE2K report was about anything more than the Amiga side of the ACE2K report. If Greenboy didn't like the fact that QNX wasn't mentioned, perhaps he should email Craig requesting him to write a little bit about QNX instead of complaining that A.N.N. titles are misleading or there's not enough news about QNX. Perhaps Greenboy should start emailing ZDNET and other general computing publications requesting more QNX coverage rather than complaining about the lack of coverage on an Amiga web site. Bickering about it on an Amiga website isn't going to let more than a handful of people know about the OS anyway. I think it's time to let the rest of the world know instead of beating a dead horse here, don't you?
No one here would be complaining about Greenboy posting a link to an article about the QNX point of view of ACE2K (I wouldn't at least), I just think it's wrong for him to expect, someone who's passion is the Amiga, to write about QNX. Which is why I said he should post articles here about QNX instead of complaining about Amiga articles here that don't mention QNX. It's not Amiga's job to do QNX's advertising, nor is it an Amiga reporter's job to report on QNX, if Greenboy wants to see more articles about QNX then he should do something about getting more articles about QNX out there, instead of complaining that someone else is not writing about QNX.
I hope this clears up my point of view. I apologise if I wasn't clear enough before. To reiterate I am NOT OPPOSED TO QNX LINKS ON ANN. I'm only opposed to complaining about the lack of links.
ACE 2000 show report : Comment 18 of 22ANN.lu
Posted by Anton Reinauer on 30-Oct-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 9 (Lancelot Du Lac):
What constitutes the Amiga? If it's just the Amiga Classic then no
AmigaDE news should be allowed here either, if it's just AmigaDE, then
Amiga Classic news is irrelevant too. If it's OSes in the Amiga spirit
then QNX has just as much right to be news worthy as AmigaDE- ie: what
does Elate have that makes it closer to the Classic Amiga OS than QNX?
As someone that has been programming (and using) the Amiga for
around 10 years, I want to program for Amiga Classic, AmigaDE and QNX,
(and hopefully MorphOS) and have a nice happy development environment
for all (this is why I was all for Amiga joining Phoenix). But I feel
some negativity from the Amiga community, which puts me off- I'd rather
just deal with with QNX RTP, as the community are friendly and helpful
- I haven't picked the Amiga SDK manual in a couple of months (and I'm
not the only person that feels this way in Phoenix) :/
If you want to lose many Amiga developers, then carry on with your
ACE 2000 show report : Comment 19 of 22ANN.lu
Posted by Lancelot Du Lac on 30-Oct-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (Anton Reinauer):
CHRIST! I wish people would simply read what was said instead of trying to twist all of the words into meanings that never existed.
NEVER did I say in my post THOUGH SHALT NOT POST QNX ON A.N.N. I simply said stop bitching about the fact that QNX wasn't included in a paticular news item simply because you think it should be.
I also said that what mean's one thing to you might not mean the same to another. Meaning, that because Greenboy doesn't think an Amiga web site should mean Amiga Inc. doesn't mean that someone else isn't going to think that it should. That being said, If someone thinks that comprehensive should be understood to mean comprehensive Amiga Inc., because the web site is an Amiga web site, doesn't mean Greenboy should call all Amigan's ignorant because the site creater disagrees with Greenboy's opinion.
Jesus H. Christ, people, learn the english fucking language. Just because I don't think QNX advocates should be bitching about the lack of QNX news, doesn't mean I think their shouldn't be QNX news. I just wish these QNX people would stop bitching about the lack of news and start posting some!
ACE 2000 show report : Comment 20 of 22ANN.lu
Posted by Christian Kemp on 30-Oct-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (SnuggleBunny):
I know I said I wouldn't comment on this any further, but I just felt like I had to.
I wasn't at the show. Therefore I don't know who was there. I only recently started taking an active interest in Amiga matters again, so I certainly don't have any perfect knowledge about it anymore. As such, if I read a report, and it was the first report I read on the show, and it is nicely written and covers everything I could imagine a show report to cover, then I label it as comprehensive.
That was my original statement, and I still stand by that statement. A few people, however, seem to see that as an anti-QNX attitude, which it certainly isn't. If you were to look at ANN's archives, you would probably find more QNX postings than on any other Amiga news site. I also have the QNX RTP CD lying here in front of me. So I hope that people will finally understand that I don't bear any grudge against QNX, that I am not "pro Amiga Inc, contra QNX", but that, from time to time, I am just merely posting a subjective opinion on things (just like in my earlier comment). And with a site the size of ANN, that is bound to create problems since it is too large not to have visitors with largely diversing ideas.
So to sum things up, I don't really understand why a single word that was chosen without any side-thoughts and in good faith can create so much confusion and disagreement.
ACE 2000 show report : Comment 21 of 22ANN.lu
Posted by Vidart on 30-Oct-2000 23:00 GMT
When will those QNX guys stop whining, go to an other place.
Some points:
1. This is an Amiga dedicated site.
You QNX guys must be happy that the toppics about QNX get attention on ANN.
2. What has Phoenix consortium/members done for the AMIGA community?
They are "only" trying to get attention for QNX which is another OS.
3. On QNX.com I don't see anything (show report?) mentioned about the ACE2K show.
4. ...............................20+
ACE 2000 show report : Comment 22 of 22ANN.lu
Posted by Lancelot Du Lac on 30-Oct-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (Christian Kemp):
> So to sum things up, I don't really understand why a single word
> that was chosen without any side-thoughts and in good faith can
> create so much confusion and disagreement.
The scariest part about this whole fiasco is not the fact that your choice of words caused so much uncalled for confusion. What I find scariest is the fact that if the article gave some comprehensive coverage of QNX these people would not have complained about the semantics of the word comprehensive. Despite the fact that the report still would be missing any information on the exhibitors listed below, and therefore, would not truly be comprehensive. The hypocrisy that exists by those who complained amazes and disgusts me.
(List below taken from the ACE2K website of exhibitors that I did not see explicitally mentioned in the above report)
Ebay (On-line Trading & messaging)
next byte (Apple Centre)
Linux Users of Victoria (LUV)
Power Computing (UK)
Orion Solutions
Melbourne OS/2 SIG
BSD Global Security Source
Computer Bank (charity)
Rebol Forces
RiscStation (RISC OS EPOS terminals)
Symmetry Innovations (QNX)
Boing International
Microcomputer Club of Melbourne
Canberra Amiga User Society
Clan analogue
VR 21 (3D gaming)
Ridge Technologies
Draco: video production
Live Wire Development (Linux)
APANA (Australian Public Access Network Association)
MVB Computing
MC1 (SCSI hardware)
Victorian BBC User Group (VicBUG - RISC OS)
Amiga User Group
Eastern Suburbs Eighty Users Group
Melbourne PC User Group Linux & BE (LUBE) SIG's
Amiga User Group of Western Australia
Amiga Genius
Amiga Innovations
NetBSD user group
The QUO (QNX Users Organisation)
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