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[News] WOA2000 newsANN.lu
Posted on 09-Dec-2000 16:57 GMT by Teemu I. Yliselä184 comments
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In an IRC conference (that was cut short by an attack from script kiddies...) today, Fleecy Moss stated that there's already 1.5 million orders placed for the Amiga DE. OS3.9 needs to sell 50000 copies in order to justify the development of a classic OS4. Earlier there was also a chat with an Elbox representative who, amongst other things, announced support for the AmigaDE running on the forthcoming SharkPPC boards. Amiga.org have the log from that.

WOA2000 news : Comment 151 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by phil on 13-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 146 (fleecy):
So no OS4, cose i don't buy something that is not usefull for me....
AND it is not lame excuse... I DONT WANT YOUR 3.9, I WANT OS 4.
You won't produce, i won't buy it, and you must prove that DE is better
than linux (cose if i must change hardware, choice is free....)
I disagree your choice to 'count' the REAL amiga supporter (nb, i
have 9 amiga, so ....)
phil
WOA2000 news : Comment 152 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by MorphOS Supporter on 14-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
Hi
Someone is already working on a WarpUPEmu for MorphOS..Currently
it is running WarpUP demos and basic stuff like WarpSNES and DarcNES
for WarpUP...Warp3D and other game stuff isn't tested yet...
Under emulation WarpUP software is running faster...
I think with this information, you will see a more complete picture about MorphOS....
WOA2000 news : Comment 153 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by Mark Olsen on 14-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 150 (the man in the shadows):
> kind of makes you wonder whether or not Ralph and Co planned it that
> way doesn't it. Having only one PowerUP and five WarpOS native applications,
No, not really. PowerUp uses the same system. And I think it would be in their interest to see WarpUp applications running in MorphOS.
WOA2000 news : Comment 154 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by Martin Baute on 14-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 151 (phil):
: So no OS4, cose i don't buy something that is not usefull for me....
: AND it is not lame excuse... I DONT WANT YOUR 3.9, I WANT OS 4.
: You won't produce, i won't buy it, and you must prove that DE is better
: than linux (cose if i must change hardware, choice is free....)
I simply don´t BELIEVE the sheer IGNORANCE of posts like this.
A PPC native AmigaOS 4.0 would have to emulate a 68k to run pre-4.0 software,
just like AmigaDE would have to, because those apps are 68k binary that won´t
run on a PPC. So where the hell is the difference between OS 4.0 and AmigaDE
for you? To make use of OS 4.0, any app would have to be rewritten, or at least
heavily modified, just like they had to when PowerUP appeared. Who, do you
think, is going to do those rewrites? Maxon is gone. Digita is gone. Softwood
is gone. H&P are a company of less than half a dozen programmers. What does your
fanatism induced trip of optimism make you believe OS 4.0 will change?
Fleecy, if you are still listening: Go ahead and focus on the AmigaDE.
Give it a PII and CII to run on the "Classic" Amiga line if you have the time
and resources to spare, and a good "Classic" emulator. (I understood that you
already have this one done.) FORGET about the OS 4.0. Those who cry and bitch
and shout and whine because they won´t get their AmigaOS 4.0 very likely don´t
understand enough of computer arithmetics to understand the simple formula:
Not (Abs ("OS 3.9" - "OS 4.0") < Abs ("OS 3.9" - "AmigaDE"))
Or put differently, the "Classic" line WILL DIE. It is dying right now, and
nothing in the world, no OS 4.0, no Mediator, no MorphOS, nothing can stop
this. It was great in it´s time, but it´s time to LEAVE IT BEHIND, and find
something new that has the potential of making dreams come true. For some this
is AmigaDE. For others this is QNX, BeOS, Linux, Whistler or whatever. But I
sure as Death itself can GUARANTEE you it WON´T be OS 4.0 nor MorphOS. No
company not already affiliated with the Amiga will consider writing any software
for OS 4.0, ever. To make it an attractive choice, an OS going somewhere other
OS´s haven´t been already years ago, they would have to make it something
completely new, with nothing more but a "Classic" emulator layer - and where´s
the difference to AmigaDE, then???
Sheesh, people, WAKE UP. 21st Century is approaching!
WOA2000 news : Comment 155 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 14-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 154 (Martin Baute):
>I simply don´t BELIEVE the sheer IGNORANCE of posts like this.
I write it previously, why not go for the DE without os4 (just read my
precedant post), what is mine concern is: Think that the old Cyberstormppc
will not be supported by DE. So no choice, if we want osPPC, we must have
something, os 4 or morphos. Where i'm not agree is how they want prooving
the maret exist. I bought os 3.5, that's all promise done with,
new roms, update, ... have not been taken (it is not so important), but
don't restart with the same way in 3.9. For my point, i feel this is
the last OS (3.9).
>Fleecy, if you are still listening: Go ahead and focus on the AmigaDE.
cyberstormppc ?
>Give it a PII and CII to run on the "Classic" Amiga line if you have the time
>and resources to spare, and a good "Classic" emulator. (I understood that you
>already have this one done.) FORGET about the OS 4.0. Those who cry and bitch
>and shout and whine because they won´t get their AmigaOS 4.0 very likely don´t
>understand enough of computer arithmetics to understand the simple formula:
>Not (Abs ("OS 3.9" - "OS 4.0") < Abs ("OS 3.9" - "AmigaDE"))
It is your point of view (i like the hardware of amiga, not peecee),
and it is only arithmetics, Amiga people was never aritmetics .... :))
>Or put differently, the "Classic" line WILL DIE. It is dying right now, and
>nothing in the world, no OS 4.0, no Mediator, no MorphOS, nothing can stop
>this.
It is dead ....
> It was great in it´s time, but it´s time to LEAVE IT BEHIND, and find
>something new that has the potential of making dreams come true. For some this
>is AmigaDE. For others this is QNX, BeOS, Linux, Whistler or whatever. But I
>sure as Death itself can GUARANTEE you it WON´T be OS 4.0 nor MorphOS. No
>company not already affiliated with the Amiga will consider writing any >software
>for OS 4.0, ever. To make it an attractive choice, an OS going somewhere other
>OS´s haven´t been already years ago, they would have to make it something
>completely new, with nothing more but a "Classic" emulator layer - and where´s
>the difference to AmigaDE, then???
Agree with you, but simply people love the old things (you now collector...),
If De is good i will buy it. As you say we have a lot of good system (linux,
QNX (too few prg), ...). But i have an old amiga... with amigaOs... and i
miserely that people who own old amiga technology made something with it.
what? an Open source, an OSppc, let license to .. morphos .... Option is
open.
Sheesh, people, WAKE UP. 21st Century is approaching!
Wake up what?, Classic amiga is definitevely a 20 century technology.
I like how was it build, how it working, ... It is kind of faith, nothing
with the Real world. it is like ATARi ST (falcon, ...) an old computer.
But a good one.
phil the fanatic (i have 4 peecee too and mac).
WOA2000 news : Comment 156 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by Martin Baute on 14-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 155 (Anonymous):
Hi Phil,
> Think that the old Cyberstormppc will not be supported by DE. So no
> choice, if we want osPPC, we must have something, os 4 or morphos.
Let me cite you from further down your own post: "you now collector".
You may not like it, but that´s how computer business goes.
> It is your point of view (i like the hardware of amiga, not peecee)
Yes, there is some greatness in the Amiga HW design. But if I look at
today´s expanded-to-death A1200´s, this greatness has already been
pushed to it´s limits. Everything beyond that (POP-Boards, Boxer,
AmigaOne 1200 etc.) I yet have to see in action.
> But i have an old amiga... with amigaOs... and i
> miserely that people who own old amiga technology made something with it.
> what? an Open source, an OSppc, let license to .. morphos .... Option is
> open.
Citing from Amiga Inc. press releases: "(For AmigaDE,) we will take from the
old OS what is worth taking." This wouldn´t be different with Amiga OS 4.0.
Open Source is a no-option, because it would void Amiga Inc.´s rights on the
patents, perhaps even the trademark. OS 4.0 PPC would be just as much work as
the AmigaDE itself, and I doubt Amiga Inc. can afford to get sidetracked,
financially and competition-wise. A licence to MorphOS would very likely lead
to a poor product, which Amiga Inc. cannot afford either. (Come on, Fleecy
clearly stated that Haage & Parter does not have the resources to do it, how
could the MorphOS team have them?) Besides, what if the MorphOS team simply
posts the OS sources to some website? You can "trust" (or sue...) a corporation,
but what about a loosely knit developer team?
>> Sheesh, people, WAKE UP. 21st Century is approaching!
> Wake up what?, Classic amiga is definitevely a 20 century technology.
There is truth to your statement: Classic Amiga is a technology of the past.
Some people yet have to accept it.
> I like how was it build, how it working, ...
Ah, yes, I know, I feel the same way!
> It is kind of faith, nothing
> with the Real world.
Yes, but if we want our children to share the very same feeling, we have to
*face* The Real World, and make AmigaDE come true.
Perhaps this is the right perspective: AmigaDE has the potential for still being
there when our children get their first computer. (As a note, I am 28, no
childrens yet.) MorphOS, OS 4.0 / PPC etc. don´t have this potential, IMHO.
> phil the fanatic (i have 4 peecee too and mac).
Sorry, my A1200 PPC/BVision went dead last year. Parts are working happily in
our club´s Amigas, but I went for a x86 laptop. Mobile SDK, hm goodie... ;-)
WOA2000 news : Comment 157 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by szutowicz on 14-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
After the duanting task of reading a 140 + poast's and such, I have a new insight to a new question. What advantages would we have with Amiga Os 4.0 running under PPC that Amiga users would not already find implemented in the New Amiga DE hardware and software. Is not the New Amiga DE PPC, does it not run on shit loads of processors? I am starting to think the whole argument is stupid and pointless and that porting the classic Amiga OS to ppc is not going to give you or anyone an advantage over Amiga DE unless you do not have any plans of supporting the New DE OS, and if this is the case, then I can slightly understand why some people want PPC, but frankly, you may be in the minority.
I feel that many Amiga users are really starting to realize DE is the way. The new PPC & PCI expansions are NOT being developed for PPC OS 4.O, they are being built with running the Amiga DE OS in mind to provide a upgrade Hardware solution for Amiga users that do Not want to let go of the 1200 and others.
Just some additional thoughts....
WOA2000 news : Comment 158 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by Ralph Schmidt on 14-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 156 (Martin Baute):
>OS 4.0 PPC would be just as much work as
>the AmigaDE itself, and I doubt Amiga Inc. can afford to get sidetracked,
>financially and competition-wise.
>A licence to MorphOS would very likely lead
>to a poor product, which Amiga Inc. cannot afford either. (Come on, Fleecy
>clearly stated that Haage & Parter does not have the resources to do it, how
>could the MorphOS team have them?) Besides, what if the MorphOS team simply
>posts the OS sources to some website? You can "trust" (or sue...) a corporation,
>but what about a loosely knit developer team?
Let`s isolate the essence of what you say.
o You know nothing about MorphOS but it will most likely be a poor
product.
o You know nothing about our resources but at the same time know
that they are below H&P or Amiga Inc`s resources.
Should i remind you where the amiga market would have been without
the first 68060 cards, PPC cards and Truecolour RTG be today ?
All that technology was initially developed by *us* and kept
the amiga alive for a significant period after CBM died.
o You don`t know us at all but that gives you the right to make
assumptions that we would simply post sources around.
Somehow i`m wondering why a lot old time and key commercial
developers gave us access to sources then...
o You talk "colored" about some loosely knit development team
while not knowing how our structure works and ignoring that
3.5/3.9 were mostly external developer`s work and that Amiga Inc
itself uses/used a lot external contractors.
A lot in the amiga scene was developed with external group
input.
Even CBM development was influenced by respected developers
or even done externally.
WOA2000 news : Comment 159 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by the man in the shadows on 14-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 158 (Ralph Schmidt):
> Should i remind you where the amiga market would have been without
> the first 68060 cards, PPC cards and Truecolour RTG be today ?
> All that technology was initially developed by *us* and kept
> the amiga alive for a significant period after CBM died.
Color me confused. You were involved in the developement of the EGS software? Well, either that or the FireCracker and the Merlin board I would guess. It's been a while.
WOA2000 news : Comment 160 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 14-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 159 (the man in the shadows):
I said truecolour RTG...EGS was truecolor but had no truecolour system
for amiga applications. Only for EGS applications. It got later some
8bit amiga rtg as far as i remember.
P.S. We had the same comment here already in the summer.
I don`t know if it was by you.
WOA2000 news : Comment 161 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by Andrzej J. Debicki on 14-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 156 (Martin Baute):
>> Wake up what?, Classic amiga is definitevely a 20 century technology.
> There is truth to your statement: Classic Amiga is a technology
> of the past. Some people yet have to accept it.
So what? Peecee is 20 century technology as well :-) So what for make
AmigaDE for wintel boxes and other stuff from the past?
WOA2000 news : Comment 162 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by Yuca on 14-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 161 (Andrzej J. Debicki):
>>> Wake up what?, Classic amiga is definitevely a 20 century technology.
>> There is truth to your statement: Classic Amiga is a technology
>> of the past. Some people yet have to accept it.
>So what? Peecee is 20 century technology as well :-) So what for make
>AmigaDE for wintel boxes and other stuff from the past?
UPs. Still havent got a clue about the HW-independence of AmiDE, eh? Damn, Amiga Inc. should write an info letter about Ami to each and every Amiga user out there and force them to read AND understand it. 68k will not be supported by Ami due to Motorola, and honestly, even a 100 MHz 060 wouldnt be fast enough to do so, I presume (x86 from PII on and not from 4/386 on!! Just not enough power...)
WOA2000 news : Comment 163 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by Andrzej J. Debicki on 16-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 162 (Yuca):
>> So what? Peecee is 20 century technology as well :-) So what for make
>> AmigaDE for wintel boxes and other stuff from the past?
> UPs. Still havent got a clue about the HW-independence of AmiDE, eh?
I know what AmigaDE is. What I only said is that arguments that Amiga is
20 century tech is talking bullshitts. Of course this is true, but look,
which computer technology is from 21 cent now? :-) Maybe new boards
from Eyetech (and other manufacturers) will bring a fresh feeling but
still they are based on 20 century technology.
Guys, please think before you write something.
PS. I wonder why mr Smith (was it he? - don't remember - if not - sorry)
don't posts his stupid mails about this topic size :-).
WOA2000 news : Comment 164 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by phil on 16-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 163 (Andrzej J. Debicki):
My point of view here, is only to show that amiga architecture is old (i know
, pecee tooo:))).
Off topic: How much time DCE take for repair cyberstormppc (mine is dead
yesterday)....
phil
WOA2000 news : Comment 165 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by Kay Are Ulvestad on 16-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 163 (Andrzej J. Debicki):
> PS. I wonder why mr Smith (was it he? - don't remember - if not - sorry)
> don't posts his stupid mails about this topic size :-).
-
Heh :-) Didn't you just do that job? He hasn't said anything about the awful mindset his opponents have either... But that's nice, that some people stop repeating themselves. Now, if I could just make myself do the same, we could make these threads a lot more interesting...:-)
-
Peace
-
Kay
WOA2000 news : Comment 166 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by Martin Baute on 17-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 158 (Ralph Schmidt):
> Let`s isolate the essence of what you say.
> o You know nothing about MorphOS but it will most likely be a poor
> product.
Let me phrase it "not professional enough to be of help". (I know
about MorphOS what there is to know. No, I haven´t coded in / for it
yet, but that´s the result of what I know about MorphOS.)
> o You know nothing about our resources but at the same time know
> that they are below H&P or Amiga Inc`s resources.
I _know_ for certain your resources _are_ below Amiga Inc.´s. I don´t
know for sure about H&P, but they are a corporate body, while you are
not, or am I mistaken?
> Should i remind you where the amiga market would have been without
> the first 68060 cards, PPC cards and Truecolour RTG be today ?
What does it help today?
> All that technology was initially developed by *us* and kept
> the amiga alive for a significant period after CBM died.
Ho, you were involved in it´s development at phase 5.
Past glory doesn´t mean s*** today.
> o You don`t know us at all but that gives you the right to make
> assumptions that we would simply post sources around.
Nope, I said that there would be a possibility, which Amiga Inc.
had to take into account.
Besides, all of us here know just as little about Amiga Inc., but
we keep making assumptions.
> o You talk "colored" about some loosely knit development team
> while not knowing how our structure works and ignoring that
> 3.5/3.9 were mostly external developer`s work and that Amiga Inc
> itself uses/used a lot external contractors.
Come on, Ralph. Either you are professional (in the meaning of the
word), or you are a loosely knit development team. Show me your team
member´s contracts.
> Even CBM development was influenced by respected developers
> or even done externally.
Yes, under contract. Do you have an Amiga Inc. contract? No.
Ralph, I know we have opposing views on many things. I know you think
AmigaDE isn´t worth the hype. I think the same of MorphOS. Time will tell.
But your achievements at phase 5 don´t assure MorphOS will be anywhere near
success.
WOA2000 news : Comment 167 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by Amifan on 17-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 166 (Martin Baute):
He's all refering to hardware. I thought he was the software man. And even writing software is something to let the pro's do. Take a look at PowerUP.
Cybergraphics....Wow...it's developed for many years now and still not perfect....Let's cross our fingers for MorphOS.
PPC OS is ofcourse what I want.
But it should be an OS which supports or is open to support ALL hardware. Not just the ones Ralph like (Phase5 and G-rex).
If AmigaOS4 fails. Then the classic market will move on to AmigaDE (really believe me). So MorphOS is left alone in the dark.
What about cooperation??
Geesh, i read the comment on Amigart, about that "accidentially shaking hands with Mr. Haage"
This remains me of the grammar school......
Porting MUI and YAM isn't enough to attract developers you know (or probably not :) )
WOA2000 news : Comment 168 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 17-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 162 (Yuca):
> 68k will not be supported by Ami due to Motorola, and honestly, even a
> 100 MHz 060 wouldnt be fast enough to do so, I presume (x86 from PII on and
> not from 4/386 on!! Just not enough power...)
So the "way forward" is to produce an inefficient OS which *requires* the latest hardware to run at an acceptable speed, forcing people to leave the old stuff behind? Hmm.. Sounds like another OS we know...
What about a ground-breaking new concept - you try to make the software run fast enough even on slow computers, then it runs *very* fast on fast ones.
Nahh.. It'd never catch on...
WOA2000 news : Comment 169 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by Al K on 17-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 162 (Yuca):
> UPs. Still havent got a clue about the HW-independence of AmiDE, eh? Damn, Amiga Inc. should write an info letter
> about Ami to each and every Amiga user out there and force them to read AND understand it. 68k will not be supported
> by Ami due to Motorola, and honestly, even a 100 MHz 060 wouldnt be fast enough to do so, I presume (x86 from PII
> on and not from 4/386 on!! Just not enough power...)
The SDK runs smoothly on top of Linux even on the P133 I write this at, so I
have hardly any doubt it would on my MC68060. And if you take into account that
Elate is used in cell phones (TimePort 1088, isn't it?). So I guess there would
be enough power only simply there is no future too.
Well, if 100,000,000 680x0 Amigas would have been sold (and 'bout 100,000 additional
ST's .. ;-), maybe we had seen the next generation Moto proc's (and powered out wIntel..
yeah).
IF.., but that is another story.
The processor power was _not_ what set up Motorola's (and Amiga's) trouble..
WOA2000 news : Comment 170 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by Michael on 19-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 89 (phil):
"Stop the old OS...let's live MorphOS."
That's what I wonder about. Morph exists and runs. Why talk and sip
about 4.0 then? Who needs 4.0 because of what, if we can have MorphOS
and new hardware, providing Amiga Inc. supports it?
Why not make MorphOs the official second leg of Amiga Inc., and Elate
the first leg? And afterwards run AmigaDE hosted on Morph?
So why talk about 4.0, the old OS is almost dead, and Morph is superior.
And, yes, I use a legal copy of "3.9", which is more of a real 3.5.
But I'm not interested in a 4.0.
WOA2000 news : Comment 171 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by Borut on 19-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
What about a bar anywhere on the Amiga HP to see how many OS3.9 had just been bought - so I can see how much copys I have to buy to come nearer to the magic number of 50.000.
WOA2000 news : Comment 172 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 19-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 168 (Anonymous):
> What about a ground-breaking new concept - you try to make the software run
> fast enough even on slow computers, then it runs *very* fast on fast ones.
>
> Nahh.. It'd never catch on...
AmigaDE runs on some cell phones that are not even as fast as the 68K running at 7MHz. How about that for lowest common denominator. The fact that Amiga will not port the AmigaDE to the current Amiga is the restriction from TAO. If it was a feasible/marketable platform in todays industry then yes, they would port the AmigaDE to it.
WOA2000 news : Comment 173 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by roman eberle on 19-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
os3.9 is a shareware bundle. (does anybody know about API-improvements?)
forget amiga Inc.
go morphOS.
WOA2000 news : Comment 174 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 19-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 173 (roman eberle):
>os3.9 is a shareware bundle. (does anybody know about
>API-improvements?)
There ARE API improvements, but obviously you just don't know what you are talking about.
About OS3.9 being a bundle of shareware/public domain: first of all that is only part of the story, and secondly have you paid all the shareware authors that are part of the OS3.9 team? Or even better: have you paid the PUBLIC DOMAIN/FREEWARE authors? Of course not there is no need to pay for freeware. Well now is your chance to support them nevertheless. I for one could not live without S. Rupprecht's OS3.5+ add-ons, and now I can show my appreciation AND get improved/better integrated versions.
On the Mac even a simple snapshot program can cost as much as 20$. There are much more complicated apps integrated into OS3.9. If you had to pay only 20$ for each one the price of OS3.9 would be somewhere at 200$. It is a bargain.
>forget amiga Inc.
>go morphOS.
Goto 10.
blabla
WOA2000 news : Comment 175 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by roman on 19-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 174 (Anonymous):
>>os3.9 is a shareware bundle. (does anybody know about
>>API-improvements?)
>There ARE API improvements, but obviously you just don't know what you are >talking about.
mmh, sorry, I was a bit brief in expressing my opinion on this. to be more exact: where's a (GOOD!) documentation of API improvements and a new (GOOD!) developer CD? and where the hell is migration to PPC??? (see comment below on that...)
>About OS3.9 being a bundle of shareware/public domain: first of all that >is ... ... much more complicated apps integrated into OS3.9. If you had to pay >only 20$ for each one the price of OS3.9 would be somewhere at 200$. It is a >bargain.
true, but if I paid all the shareware authors directly the money would go to the right people. If I buy OS3.9 the money will be put into Elate/... on whatever platform, but as it seems definitely NOT Classic-Amiga (hardware drivers? esp. PCI-support? growing ppc-support? java? OS-native-RTG/RTA? etc. pp.)
>Goto 10.
return false
;-)
greets, ro
WOA2000 news : Comment 176 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by Maruk on 19-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 174 (Anonymous):
I don't care what happens.
If I can use my PPC properly it's fine to my.
MorphOs sounds very nice..
Ports can be made very quickly..
(If they only had a proper installer for the beta)
WOA2000 news : Comment 177 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by the man in the shadows on 19-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 173 (roman eberle):
When MorphOS comes out as a viable _commercial_ product, I will consider it as an option that I myself have. Until that time, it is nothing but vapor/beta. Native PPC based YAM, MUI, and Vapor apps are peanuts imho. How is it that one can port buggy/incomplete software to a different processor and expect to not be buggy/incomplete? If the Morph team wants the entire Amiga community to shut up and listen to them, then they will take the initiative to go and talk with the software developers of H&P and work together to come up with one solid PPC kernel. Don't get me wrong, competition is good and promotes development, but with a small community it's like trying to set a forest on fire in the middle of a wide open field.
You have to plant the trees before you can have fuel for the fire.
Until that time: Long walk, short bridge, MorphOS... you get the picture.
WOA2000 news : Comment 178 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by Pris Zato on 19-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
I hope the best, if you like visit my Amiga-page:
http://come.to/priscam
Greetings,
Priscilla
WOA2000 news : Comment 179 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by joe on 19-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 91 (fleecy):
Fleecy,
two things:
I have read in an IRC log with H&P, that they _really_ would like to do OS4.
They already started... They said, AInc stopped them. So, where is the valid point,
of H&P not thinking they could make money with it. They sure would like to.
They have a whole future product line waiting for it.
Same for the manufacturers of PCI/PPC hardware.
The reasons must be others I don't know about...Only AInc. does.
Let me introduce myself a bit:
I use a A4000 in a tower, CyberStromMKI060, 115 MB RAM, SCSI, CDROM, 4xHDD, SONY DAT, MFC-III, CyberVision64.
I use still OS3.1. OS3.5 was a bad joke. The information politics were just so bad. No wonder you did not sell more.
But maybe that was the goal ?????
OS3.9 came: There is close to no information about the serious OS upgrades/bugfixes.
There is only info on blink,winky surface changes and registered shareware included.
I have two reasons to buy OS3.9 (which I will do in January):
To get MooVid and the other registered shareware (XArc). I already have NetConnect3.
To encourage support of OS4 (buahhahah, how I will fail...)
And I don't want OS4 to be PPC only ? Which processor will I use to run it ?
Do you think I have the money to buy:
A new tower, a new ZIII daughterboard (I have such an expansion already) a PCI adabptor and, finally, a PPC plus new RAM, since my PS/2 won't do it.
Oh, yes ! This is a completly new computer ! And where do I get the money to buy my Wintel from (which is needed badly)
You see: PPC only OS4 won't work. The current PPC base is far too small. I know a lot of people not buying PPC because of the price.
I want an AmigaONE (though, I did not follow recent changes (eyetech/bplan))
A machine as described on eyetechs web-page, a combination of an Classic Amiga with the PPC AmigaONE.
The bPlan mobo is exactly what I was searching the last three months, but I doubt if I will use it as Amiga (I hope I can get the mobo stand alone, to fulfill a project I am dreaming of).
Future Amiga for me is: Amiga Classic with PPC AmiDE hardware combined, as described on eyetechs page.
For that I'd like to see PPC OS4.
For anything else I want an OS that runs on both CPU lines.
Usually a company tries to work together with their users if they want to achieve high sales. AmigaInc does not regarding the Classic line. You say: Pay and we will see.....
I want you to say: What do you want to see in OS3.2 (yes, 3.2 should be the next update, the jump to .9 is a bad joke).
You want to have things get an end. This is what you do. The rest is just foo bar.
WOA2000 news : Comment 180 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by Roj on 19-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
What I don't understand is, why does Fleecy et. al. jump on the AmigaDE bandwagon and claim that it's going to be the do-all, end-all, and fully worthy of the Amiga name for current Amiga users, and then turn around and ardently express how much he would love OS 4.0 to appear?
Is the AmigaDE going to be good enough to make any Classic OS upgrade completely pointless or isn't it?
Can someone explain that?
WOA2000 news : Comment 181 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by Darius on 20-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
Hello Mr. Amiga! (Fleecy?)
You say, that you would port the CURRENT AmigaOS to PPC if 50k OS3.9 (=3.5 Boing Bag2) were sold.
Did your Company (Amino/Amiga) program OS3.9? or 3.5?
15.000 sold PPC Boards sold by P5/DCE! -> 15.000 OS3.9 Customers.
Why should I buy 3.9 to hope some (NOT YOU, I THINK!!) other Company gets the exclusive Rights to codemorph YOUR owned Sourcecodes to PPC (at THEIR risk)?
What Hardware am i able to buy that runs it on - any Suggestions??
Bill Gates programmed DOS for an IBM-Machine and People bought this Peace of IBM-Hardware with the Coded SW for it.
Other Companies cloned this HW and bought DOS with it.
He programmed Windoze95 and People upgraded their HW to take Advantage of this SW!
He didnt ask them if they would buy it!
He didnt say "if you buy more DOS i code Windoze!"
He worked together with HW-Companies and supported them by adding their Drivers in his new SW: his Risk, he was the BusinessMan - not his Users!
He had to invest, he had the Risk - People didnt have to bagg for newer,better SW.
Do you need the Sales of 3.9 to invest it into your AmigaDE?
BTW, who needs a VP-DE?
x86 has Windoze2k,
Motorola isnt able to produce PPC over 500MHZ and new APPLE-OS will run on x86!
Other Processors (RISC) use UNIX/Linux!
who needs CROSS-Plattform OS -> CURRENT Amiga Users? On bPlan-PPC-Boards?
They should better use OS4.0 PPC - but you cant develop it!!!
WOA2000 news : Comment 182 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by roman on 20-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
is there somebody listening at amiga inc.?
do you read the statements expressed here?
WOA2000 news : Comment 183 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by Bertrand PRESLES on 20-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
Hello everybody!
Amiga users: Please stop now! It's enough!!!! The question is not to know
if MorphOS is better than AmigaOS 3.9. Or if it would be the future or not.
In fact, as far as i understood (and correct me Fleecy if something is wrong, Amiga.Inc propose to develop the AmigaOS 4.0 WITH the guys of MorphOS, H&P, ...etc.
The goal is to reunify the community, and i can tell you that it's needed.
As Fleecy said, developers are lined up! (developers == MorphOS + H&P + Amiga + etc... guys!).
I think it's the best way because it will offer all the ressources of the Amiga developers community!!! So that mean the debate about which have enough ressources is stupid as it will not be only the MorphOS team or only the Amiga teal or only the H&P team which will develop the AmigaOS 4.0, it'll be ALL of them in conjonction!
The only problem actually in order to begin the project is the support of the users!!
Yes i understand that it could be stupid for some persons that Amiga have chosen to test the users support with the number of OS3.9 sells, but
in fact, it's the only way, because preorders NEVER worked well in theAmiga community when it was used by companies (ex: iFusion! If the preorders had respected their engagements, iFusion should ALREADY be here!!!).
And a market study tell that there not a enough market. So Fleecy give us a second chance to prove that we are ready for the OS 4.0 PPC!
And finally, for people who are worried about the PPC hardware support of the AmigaOS 4.0PPC, Fleecy said that it'll run on current PPC hardware, AmigaOne's hardware AND PowerMac hardware.
I think it's enough to see a bright future of the "classic" AmigaOS.
So make it born!!
BUY THE AMIGAOS 3.9!!!
DON'T BE STUPID!
AND DON'T SAY THAT MORPHOS IS BETTER!! The MorphOS team will participate in the AmigaOS 4.0 develoement, so what you liked in MorphOS will be on it too!
(i think it's principly the speed, because the stability is not better than AmigaOS for now as the tasks running under the AmigaOS layer of MorphOS are not protected
as they are running on AmigaOS which is not ready to work with a Memory Protection (at least the current version, but surely not the 4.0 if you help it to born)
The end word: Union is FORCE!!!
Let's unify the Amiga community!
Let's buy AmigaOS 3.9 to make AmigaOS 4.0PPC born as the result of the community unification!
That's all folks! :-)
WOA2000 news : Comment 184 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by Royce Hunt on 22-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (bbuilder):
Apparently, the Amiga community is mostly composed of socialists and communists.
I suggest the Amiga community pick up the book "The Wealthy Barber," or poerhaps "The Cashflow
Quadrant," and get a good lesson in capitalist economics. Amiga Inc., would be
out of business quickly if it listened to everything the Amiga community asked for.
To me, AmigaOS 4.0, though it may be a great product, does not make good financial
sense. Amiga Inc. needs to tap new markets with its AmigaDE. If MorphOS can make a buck
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