29-Mar-2024 12:20 GMT.
UNDER CONSTRUCTION
Anonymous, there are 184 items in your selection (but only 134 shown due to limitation) [1 - 50] [51 - 100] [101 - 150] [151 - 184]
[News] WOA2000 newsANN.lu
Posted on 09-Dec-2000 16:57 GMT by Teemu I. Yliselä184 comments
View flat
View list

In an IRC conference (that was cut short by an attack from script kiddies...) today, Fleecy Moss stated that there's already 1.5 million orders placed for the Amiga DE. OS3.9 needs to sell 50000 copies in order to justify the development of a classic OS4. Earlier there was also a chat with an Elbox representative who, amongst other things, announced support for the AmigaDE running on the forthcoming SharkPPC boards. Amiga.org have the log from that.

WOA2000 news : Comment 51 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 10-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 46 (fleecy):
fleecy, you really have to clear some things up;
You said "Sue MorphOS team (as that is what I seem to understand from your posting)"
NSDI say "OS3.9 is illegal as there is a pirate version of AmiTCP/Genesis included", "As per press release".
I Say "I can't purchase OS3.9, because that would be pirating? (hence stolen AmiTCP/Genesis)"
Do we "Post on H&P antipiracy web page that H&P are pirates?"
Do we "Post on H&P antipiracy web page that MorphOS steal code?"
Do we "Post on H&P antipiracy web page that Elbox steal code, use P96 just so they can get there voodoo driver out?"
Or do We "Post everywhere that DCE are nothing but a bunch of non supporting, hardware stealing wankers?"
Which one is right??
WOA2000 news : Comment 52 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by David Scheibler on 10-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
Fleecy please tell me why you have stopped H&P with developing a PPC port
of the AmigaOS? H&P saw the market and began rewriting the OS but Amiga Inc stopped
them. Why?
Just let H&P do the port and don't invest your money. Amiga Inc. can develop AmigaDE
and H&P can develope AmigaOS. Where's the problem?
WOA2000 news : Comment 53 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by Stephen Illingworth on 10-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 47 (Martin Baute):
> Which is about all they can do, given the fact that they are a
> company of three? four? full-time people...
Well we have to ask, why bother then?
While there was some original work done for 3.5, features such as
ARexx ports for Workbench and animated icons just aren't
important, they are but frivilous additions. Other people have
stated what they expect from an OS upgrade, and I pretty much
agree with them.
I would love to buy 3.9, but I can live without the features
added since 3.1, they just aren't important to me. And I'm afraid
the idea of buying 3.9 simply so that the promised 4.0 will be
developed is not being entertained by this user. There are PPC
operating systems that are based on AmigaOS in development now,
so the idea of waiting a year or so for a H&P effort is hardly an
effective tool for leveraging money from me.
WOA2000 news : Comment 54 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by fleecy on 10-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 51 (Anonymous):
>fleecy, you really have to clear some things up;
I will try
>You said "Sue MorphOS team (as that is what I seem to understand from your >posting)"
I had a great meeting with the MorphOS team and saw a good demonstration.
However, we will not allow the community to be split, and the MorphOS team agrees. What is needed is for the Amiga to move forwards, but it will only
move forwards IF it is viable. We have a commitment to the developers, who
need to know that if they spend their money developing product, it will actually be worth it in the end, and the users who will buy it need to know that there will be content in the end. This won't happen with ten thousand or twenty thousand users.
I'm sure it's very unpopular with users to hear that we want to see 50k sales.
It's also very unpopular with our investors, and those who put money
into Titan, and Epic and Hyperion, and H&P, and all their employees, who need
to feed and clothe themselves that they sold 200 copies of something that they need 5000 sales just to break even.
If we get the 50k sales, we will put all our resources into not just moving the Amiga to PPC, but to seeing the community expand and grow, bringing more developers and more product.
The last few years has effectively been just life support, heroic action by
the developers and users to keep it alive, but in the end, just keeping it alive. It deserves more than that.
As for the OS3.9 NDSi issue, H&P have assured me that NDSi have no claim
and that the is no issue. Please buy OS3.9. The future of the AmigaOS is where
it should be at this moment, in the hands of the Amiga community. 1000 or 2000
very noisy people is not enough.
WOA2000 news : Comment 55 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 10-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 54 (fleecy):
sorry for my comments about NSDI/Genesis, it was just a topic here and wanted to have things cleared up.
In regards to OS3.9 I will purchase it, thanks for clearing things up, I did purchase OS3.5+OS3.1 ROMS from H&P when it first came out (all the way from Australia) and even purchased Net Connect 3 (which comes with genesis + vaporware software). And when I purchased my Ariadne II Ethernet that came with Genesis as well.
I can assure you that I will purchase OS3.9, as a PPC owner, I would like to see OS4.0....
thanks
and I hope everyone else out there purchases OS3.9, as OS4.0 depends on it... and look at all the new PPC companies such as Elbox & Eyetech, I am sure they will support it too.
and I hope there is no split between MorphOS and WarpOS and they can work together...
WOA2000 news : Comment 56 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by phil on 10-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 54 (fleecy):
Fleecy,
Thx for the answeer, but you know infact that everybody only want
only two things, PPC os and new roms. You can't ask money on only
change the color of a car. What you sell for Os 3.9 is an Update to 3.5
(i've buy it). I don't want to pay for an update or a bugfixes. I surely
buy a PPC OS (and much more than 50-60 DEM). So... you want to sell
something good, just meet what people expect.
Phil.
Sorry for my poor english :))
WOA2000 news : Comment 57 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by Syzygy on 10-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 46 (fleecy):
>1. Members of the MorphOS team have seen the Amiga source code. That is all
>that is required to allow for a full source review, done by technical laywers,
>costing quite a few million dollars and taking months, perhaps running into
>years.
At the end of the day, MorphOS is the only way AmigaOS will ever run on PPC.
>2. 50,000 is the nbr of users required to provide the minimum valid market.
What? I won't buy 3.9 because its a pile of shareware from aminet!
Just because I don't buy 3.9 doesn't mean I'm not going to buy 4.0.
>For those who have spent thousands of dollars buying the latest
>equipment and games, TRULY supporting the Amiga, then I am sorry.
Hey, thats me.. and yet, I don't want 3.9...
>We and the developers and the dealers have invested our lives in this
>community. It's time for the community to invest in it, not those who
>truly do support it, like the guys who bought 5 copies at Cologne because
>they want OS4, but the whiners still on OS3.1 who complain that nothing
>supports their AGA 68k20.
Ah, I love the "the community isn't supporting the Amiga" lines you guys seem to have so many of, they always start appearing when we dont agree with AI.
>If they come, we will build it - not the other way around.
Dont freakin' build it then, let the MorphOS guys do it.
Peace,
Syzygy.
WOA2000 news : Comment 58 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by Chris on 10-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 49 (Anonymous):
>Eyetech/Escenda - predator
> DCE - CS/B PPC
> Elbox - Shark PPC
> BPlan - PPC MB
> Metabox - Amijoe
Which has, according to a posting I read a couple of days ago, been cancelled.
> I dont see a slow down?, do you?, all will support classic OS too when there is a sufficient enough 68k emulation such as
> MorphOS
Oh FOR &&"$^"&$*£""$ SAKE WILL YOU WAKE UP?!?! You are talking about a handful
of kludged or rush designed systems, built in single run quantities that are as
small as can possibly be done on a production line. They retail for rediculous prices
with virtually no software, a community that is dwingling faster than a compulsive
gambler's finances in a Vegas casino and little or no possibility of updates or
customer support.
In the last 2 months over 10 people on just one Amiga list I subscribe to, all
of whom once swore they would never buy a Windows box, have been FORCED to buy
one to do things that they should have been able to take for granted
and because they simply could not afford to keep upgrading their systems. And
these aren't whiners with A500s and OS2.x, they are people who bought 3.5,
they've all got highly expanded A3000, A4000 or A1200Ts. They have been forced
to buy Win boxes simply because it was utterly uneconomical for them to consider
buying any of the "new" hardware coming out, because half the sites they needed
to visit on the internet just don't work with Amigas, because they can't find
any of the applications they need on the Amiga anymore, because they have
become tired of the constant in-fighting and squabbling.
IF THAT ISN'T A "$%&$%^! SLOWDOWN, WHAT IS?!
4.0 is not going to see the light of day, if there are 50,000 Amiga users left
in the world I'll eat my own foot. At best each of those boards will use a
different PPC kernel, none of which work with each other. More likely there
will be yet more fireworks. And still people will drift through life implicitly
believing that the Amiga can carry on regardless.
Well it can't. Aside from Amiga Inc's DE, you can say fare-thee-well to
any increase in the Amiga market; anything that can be done now will just
slow the decline, and even that is unlikely. So there's three or four PPC
solutions, so what? It wouldn't matter if there was 20 when there's
practically no-one to buy them and virtually nothing to run on them.
WOA2000 news : Comment 59 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by fleecy on 10-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 55 (Anonymous):
>sorry for my comments about NSDI/Genesis, it was just a topic here and wanted >to have things cleared up.
Don't apologise 8-) If it's a question you have, I'm sure it's a question
others have. I raised it with Juergen and that was his answer.
>In regards to OS3.9 I will purchase it, thanks for clearing things up, I did >purchase OS3.5+OS3.1 ROMS from H&P when it first came out (all the way from >Australia) and even purchased Net Connect 3 (which comes with genesis + >vaporware software). And when I purchased my Ariadne II Ethernet that came >with Genesis as well.
And you are precisely the sort of user we want to provide OS4 to - I want OS4,
for gods sake. People are making up rubbish about how I don't want it - that's a joke. Yes, for quite a few people, buying OS3.9 will really be a vote in the
classic, more than anything else. There were users in Cologne buying 3 or 4 of them because they want OS4 - it doesn't help us see that many users, but if that's the commitment they are prepared to make, then so are we.
Simply, we are the first Amiga company to ever commit to a PPC AmigaOS. It was said in public. It is on websites and IRC logs. It will be in magazines. It has
been said and Amiga will stick by its word. What is amazing us is that we are the bad guys for this.
Not a solution done by a few people in their spare time, or two or three groups
competing to outdo each other but a real solution with the full backing and
authority of Amiga. No more politics. No more spats or tiffs. One company. One
solution. A professional solution that will encourage professional developers to join those who have bravely stayed on.
>I can assure you that I will purchase OS3.9, as a PPC owner, I would like to >see OS4.0....
And you are a true Amiga supporter. I hope we can awaken the silent majority
and give them the computer they want.
>thanks
>
>and I hope everyone else out there purchases OS3.9, as OS4.0 depends on it... >and look at all the new PPC companies such as Elbox & Eyetech, I am sure they >will support it too.
>
>and I hope there is no split between MorphOS and WarpOS and they can work >together...
Everyone we talked to, and that is everyone who is anyone is fully committed
to this, to working under Amiga, but they are also committed to the 50K number.
If we do it, we do it properly, and to do it properly, we have to have the users
there, or we may as well just give up.
I hope the users are there. I have my bought copy of OS3.9 in front of me,
and I can get a box of them for free if I wanted. I am a user as much as
I am a member of Amiga.
WOA2000 news : Comment 60 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by Roj on 10-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
Fleecy is openly stating that the intention behind releasing OS3.9 is to feel out the market for the "C=" (I hate the "classic" label) Amiga.
The first thing that concerns me is that releasing OS3.9 for this purpose undermines the legitimacy of the product from the users' standpoint. It seems to be intended as a market-feeler more than anything else.
The second thing that concerns me is, how do I know that OS 4.0 will be anything other than the same slap-it-together, shareware here, shareware there collection that would be more worthy of having a 3.5 label than 3.5 actually was? IMHO, OS3.5 wasn't what I would call a .4 version jump upgrade. A glorified patch would be more accurate. Comment out setPATCH from the OS3.5 startup. Without it, OS3.5 feels like an unpatched OS3.5, but notice how it also feels like an unpatched OS3.1.
WOA2000 news : Comment 61 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by Kay Are Ulvestad on 10-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
Just some comments on other people's comments:
Syzygy: I really don't agree with much of what you say, with the exception of the
"Peace" at the end :-) Surely, OS3.9 is much more than an Aminet collection. And even
if it was one, it would be a bloody good one, which I would consider buying at the price
of an OS upgrade. But it is much more. Just go read the combined feature lists for
OS3.5 and 39, and see for yourself.
Stephen Illingsworth: Ok, you have some good points. The bottom line for me though, is
that I was pleased with OS3.5. I enjoyed the features it added, I enjoyed it including
some of the real essentials which one earlier had to pay for separately (24 bit printing, smooth
support for 4GB+ drives, proper CDFS). I also enjoyed the way I could get rid of a lot
of patches, and how some were made "official". (I believe someone else on another thread
pointed out that it would be easier for developers to make their software stable if
everybody had the same patches). But the feature I enjoyed the most, I admit, was the
new installer :-) Go figure...
Ok all I'm trying to say is: Whatever you might have wanted OS3.9/3.5 to include which
it didn't, just consider it for what it is and what it offers. I think it would
probably be a very neat addition to your system, and it wouldn't ruin you
financially...
Fleecy: Thank you for making some firm statements and promises. If I get the impression
that you are closing in on the 50k figure, I'll consider buying an extra copy... *That*
would be a vote to get OS4.0. The first copy which I already have on order, I'm getting
simply because I want it.
Ok, all dedicated users out there: Buy OS3.9 and make that guy eat his foot!
Kay
WOA2000 news : Comment 62 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by Björn Hagström on 10-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
There are already pirated versions of 3.9 floating around. Amiga users
are yet again biting their own foot and will end up complaining about
the lack of support from Amiga. Geez.
WOA2000 news : Comment 63 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by Mousky on 10-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (David Scheibler):
>Amiga Inc. really must have no idea of the Amiga market if they expect
>50 000 copies of OS 3.9 to be sold. So I'm wondering why
>they made such a statement that OS 4.0 is possible?
To sell more copies of OS 3.9 silly. They used the good old "buy this upgrade if you want to see future support and releases" argument used by the likes of Softwood and other.
> And for 1.5 million AmigaDEs already sold. Metabox also "sold"
> millions of settop boxes and are now even not able to keep on their
> sponsorship of a German sports club according to a newspaper.
Amiga has "orders" for 1.5 million AmigaDEs. That is much different from actually selling anything ;)
> And wasn't it Amiga, Inc. that said: "We don't make any announcements
> about our products until they are finished."?
I suppose hype sells.
WOA2000 news : Comment 64 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by Mousky on 10-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 48 (fleecy):
Fleecy Moss said:
> We are ready to start AmigaOS4 PPC tomorrow if we get confirmed orders of 50,000 OS3.9 sales.
> OS4 would be done quickly, to move the classic OS, or as much of it as is required to support
> commercial products and projects of the last year or two, over to the PPC platform.
So why bother with OS3.9 at all? Based on the feedback in the various Amiga mailing lists and newsgroups many Amiga users pre-ordered OS3.9 without actually knowing what was in it or what it improved. If, as you say, OS4 PPC is ready to go into development and can be done quickly, then perhaps Amiga should have skipped 3.9 altogether and taken pre-orders for OS4?
The problem I have with what I call the "trigger number" of 50,000 is that there may be a percentage of users who do not ugprade to 3.9 but WOULD upgrade to an OS4 PPC? Did Amiga Inc take this into consideration? Or does one have to "show" their support by purchasing a product?
WOA2000 news : Comment 65 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by A3K on 10-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
Time is money (or so they say.)
One of the dominant complaints I hear about OS3.9 is that it is a bunch of patches and freeware/shareware from Aminet.
I wonder how many people have actually spent the time configuring some of those @#$@ programs? They are nice, and make the OS more FUNctional, but dloading them and installing them can be a pain in the rear.
Most people don't archive those either. You back up your important data, and in the event of a HD crash, you dload and reinstall all that crap again.
Time is money.
Integrating the *extras* into an OS release imho is very worthy of a new OS release, especially with the low low price of $39.95. I plan on purchasing it as soon as my PPC card arrives. I have 3.5 and 3.1 and about a half dozen other OS releases.
Almost every single piece (maybe all) of the RH6.2 package at Wal-Mart (and other fine retailers) is free, but they sell a bazillion copies because no one wants to dload and configure.
Maybe what AI is doing should have been done a long time ago, but it wasn't. I am behind them now that they are working toward a real future, for both "classic" and DE. If I read what Fleecy had to say correctly, we could see both, and possibly a convergence of the two.
WOA2000 news : Comment 66 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by mousky on 10-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 54 (fleecy):
Fleecy wrote:
> Please buy OS3.9. The future of the AmigaOS is where
> it should be at this moment, in the hands of the Amiga community.
> 1000 or 2000 very noisy people is not enough.
I noticed that once again, Amiga Inc is asking people to "register" their OS 3.9 upgrade online. I have no idea of what use this is, as I registered my OS3.5 upgrade, and well, have not received any notice via email about the OS3.9 upgrade, about the OS3.5 file area, about the Amiga SDK, or anything else. Exactly what is the purpose of "registering" the 3.9 upgrade? What is the point of collecting information if you do nothing with it?
WOA2000 news : Comment 67 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by Georg Steger on 10-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 59 (fleecy):
: Simply, we are the first Amiga company to ever commit to a PPC AmigaOS. It was said in public. It is on websites and IRC
Haage & Partner themselves (Jochen Becher/Martin Steigerwald) said in a recent
IRC chat, that they had permission by Gateway to make a PPC AmigaOS.
Then, so they said, you (actual Amiga Inc.) stopped them.
About ~ "need big enough market". You would have 10,000 times bigger chances/
market if you open sourced AmigaOS. AROS is extremely system independent and once
porting the few hardware specific stuff - for a gfx card you basically just
need to implement writepixel and readpixel to get a first working version -
you can run it on every machine you like. 32 bit/64 bit. big endian/little
endian. stack growing upwards/downwards. 68k, ppc, alpha, x86. Whatever
you like.
And: AROS does everything for free. No need to invest a single dollar.
No risk. Everyone could make distributions and sell them at a very
low price -> more people buying it -> and still the distributors could
make lots of money.
And: AROS does at the same time (try to) bring in many enhancements,
for example layers extension (layers off screen, child layers, irregular
shaped layers), (limited) memory protection, etc.
BTW: What happens with AmigaOS Classic if the 50,000 number is not reached?
Nothing? Open Source?
Hmm ... since AmigaOS Source still belongs to Gateway (right?) maybe just
ask them ...
WOA2000 news : Comment 68 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 10-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 67 (Georg Steger):
Obviously AmigaOS will die. It doesn't fit into the grand plans of Fleecy & co. What annoys me is that he claims to be an Amiga user, and claims to love it, but if this is true then why is he planning to kill it off?
WOA2000 news : Comment 69 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by Jim Szutowicsz on 10-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
Firstly, I would like to take my hat off to Fleecy for being very professional when responding to the, you know, the ones that Bitch and complain about everything that Amiga Inc. is doing and trying to do, but yet, its not enough, and I hate your business plan and am buying a Win doze Machine because I cannot find useful software for My Amiga. I however will not be so nice(-:
I will say this to those who are complaining, PUT UP OR SHUT UP. Look in the mirror and look at yourselves closely and ask yourselves “What have I done lately to contribute to the forward momentum of the classic Amiga Hardware and Software Markets”? For those of you who are bitching, that’s about all you have done; moreover, you are contributing to your own self-fulling prophecy of doom for the Amiga. Congratulations on your optimistic and undying support for the Amiga and its philosophies. You all should break an arm and pat yourselves on the back!!
Economics 101: Consumers will vote with there dollars. If you choose not to vote, then good day mate and go buy your Windose Machine and have a good life.
I have purchased 3 Windose machines for work that I cannot do on my Amiga. I use them for school and many other things, but My Amiga is still the king, for me at least, for Video Editing. I will also be purchasing the Repulse soundboard for my configuration so I can use the best Freaking Audio Software on the Amiga, and that would be, ProStationAudio from Audiolabs. Then who gives a rat’s ass about cheap sound cards for the pc and such, I have ProStationAudio now and Intel users don’t.
You complainers just really amaze me!!!
WOA2000 news : Comment 70 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by the man in the shadows on 10-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 67 (Georg Steger):
> Hmm ... since AmigaOS Source still belongs to Gateway (right?) maybe just
> ask them ...
Gateway does not have any ties to the intellectual property of the classic Amiga, AmigaOS, Amiga Trademark, or Amiga hardware. That was announced quite some time ago by Brad Shaw, senior executive of PR for Gateway. On the other hand, any of the _newer_ portions of the intellectual properties that Gateway developed at "over the moon productions" with Jeff Schindler are still very much a part of Gateway with a low cost licensing available for Amiga Inc (stated as Amino in the original documents).
slate cleaned... let's try that again.
Fleecy & Bill:
After the AmigaDE is finally released, I would like to request the open source of the classic AmigaOS under the terms and agreement of sourceforge. By doing so, it will allow the classic AmigaOS to florish in one specific direction as decided by the moderating parties. Thank you for your ears, I hope to work with the two of you again at a later time. Till then.
WOA2000 news : Comment 71 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by Franklin Cheney on 10-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 47 (Martin Baute):
I think Ralph Schmidt will in one fell swoop make Apple Inc.
the largest Amiga clone maker in history...his various comments
don't deny that as part of his overall business plan...my guess
is in time for Christmas 2001. SUSE on IMAC...why not mORPHOS!
WOA2000 news : Comment 72 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by Emmanuel Lesueur on 10-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 46 (fleecy):
> 1. Members of the MorphOS team have seen the Amiga source code. That
> is all that is required to allow for a full source review, done by
> technical laywers, costing quite a few million dollars and taking
> months, perhaps running into years.
Right. And what happens when you do that and can't produce any evidence
of a copyright infringement ? Simple: you have wasted millions of dollars
for nothing. Plus Ralph can sue back for a compensation.
Just thinking about what MorphOS is, should convince anyone that there is
no need for any line of the AmigaOS source code to do it. What would it
have been used for? Obviously not for Quark, nor for the 68k emulator. To
patch parts of the system with native replacements? Just look at what is
replaced: exec (everyone knows it is written in 68k asm, and thus is
unusable. It is _simple_ and its API is self-explanatory. Most of it has
already been patched in many ways (executive, ...)), utility (trivial,
meant to be patched in the first place), math libs (same thing), graphics
(cybergraphics), ram-handler (its bugs demonstrate that's it has be
rewritten). Other ppc modules are replacements for third party drivers.
You don't have a case.
WOA2000 news : Comment 73 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by Chris on 10-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 65 (A3K):
Back up onto a CD - problem solved.
WOA2000 news : Comment 74 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by Franklin Cheney on 10-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 58 (Chris):
Nothing and no-one....? Pagestream, ImageFX, Imagine, AmigaWriter, Yam, All
the Vapor net apps, DrawStudio, TurboPrint, TurboCalc, SBase4, Wildfire, newsRog, more games than time to play, not counting trolling Aminet...plus
TEN MILLION GREEDY EIGHTH GRADERS WHO DON'T WANT WINDOZE and who WILL buy
SOME kind of computer...bring on bPLAN, mediator, g-rex, mORPHOS, and
all that Bill and Fleecy have, and QNX, and let the giants fallllll!!!!
....merry Christmas to all with heads out of sand, and above sea level...
WOA2000 news : Comment 75 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by Syzygy on 10-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 62 (Björn Hagström):
Heh, maybe those folks who bought several copies at WOA aren't as great as Fleecy thinks....
Peace,
Syzygy
WOA2000 news : Comment 76 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by Syzygy on 10-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 69 (Jim Szutowicsz):
>What have I done lately to contribute to the forward momentum of the classic Amiga Hardware and Software Markets?
Dude, I run an Amiga User Group, I spent over £1000 on this machine in the las 16 months, I own 7 Amigas.
I didn't buy 3.5 and won't be buying 3.9 because it is just a replacement for everything I have already.
Peace,
Syzygy.
WOA2000 news : Comment 77 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by Chris on 10-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 69 (Jim Szutowicsz):
What have I done? Look on every single AmigaActive CD to see what I
have done - I wrote the ADD. But that's nothing: I wrote StartPanel, for
which I got 5 paid registrations. I know a lot more people are using it,
but good old DC decided it would be fun to make a cracked key... I've written
10 or 11 different pieces of software, a lot are on aminet or they are being
used by other Amiga developers. My CD player code is used in several games
from another group. I'm also the developer of E2260 and one of the co-designers
and developers of M&M. I may not be one of the more important people who
posts to this board, but I can guarantee I've done a more for the platform
than a fair number of people here.
I think I have every ____ing right to complain if I think that what has been
done by H&P - Amiga aren't the issue here, H&P are behind 3.5 and 3.9 - is
utterly inadequate. I still support the Amiga, I spend most of my free time
developing for it, but I am also well aware that there is nothing in either
3.5 or 3.9 that can seriously be considered an upgrade to any Amiga user
who has spent more than a few hours working on their system, especially one
with Scalos or DOpus. The reasons behind my doubts about 50,000 users are
obvious if you talk to any Amiga hardware or software supplier, and even
if there were more than that number, the level of piracy means that even if
every honest Amiga user bought a copy we probably couldn't get half way
there. And that's not doom saying, whineing or moaning, that's cold, hard
experience and listening to the people who actually try to make a living off
the remains of the Amiga.
WOA2000 news : Comment 78 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by Kay Are Ulvestad on 10-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 77 (Chris):
Aha! You are the Chris who is/was working on E2260! Haven't heard much about that game lately...how's it going? I was really looking forward to it...M&M as well...
-
Kay
WOA2000 news : Comment 79 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by Mart on 10-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
Dear Fleecy,
Can you tell me/us if its technically possible to port the 'classic' OS to VP code, instead of PPC ?
Then you would have PPC OS aswel as x86 and others..........
Thanks, and I have bought 3.9 (wel, ordered it) and will get a AmigaOne solution for sure...
Mart
WOA2000 news : Comment 80 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by Keith Blakemore-Noble on 10-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 46 (fleecy):
Fleecy, with respect, that is utter bullshit.
Look, you guys at AInc *KNOW* we want a PPC AmigaOS - hell, if we didn't want it then why the hell are you spending so much time answering posts from people asking why you are not letting H&P develop a PPC AmigaOS>
Let me ask YOU something, Fleecy. Given a lot of us want a PPC AmigaOS, then why the fsck shoudl we waste (in our eyes) money on OS3.9 which is OS3.1 plus bug fixes plus Amiunet shareware, when we already have all of that and it is not what we want?
ESPECIALLY as you have already pulled the "buy this if you want a PPC OS to be developed" line when you release OS3.5?
Sorry, Fleecy, but it is increasingly obvious you lot do NOT want to sell us a PPC OS, and you will resort ot any lies and marketing bull to persuade us it is OUR fault simply because we do not buy irrelevant stuff we've already told you we do not need.
WOA2000 news : Comment 81 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by D1 on 10-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
Guys, wake up...Amiga OS3.9 is really cheap, a cheap investment will surely secure the future for OS4.0, isn't that worth it?
Chris, unfortunately there are crackers and they dont just exist on amiga they are on other platforms as well. Unfortunately this is the fact of life, it just hasn't happened to you, it has happened to "AMIGA" as well.
I hope we can reach the 50k mark, buy Amiga OS3.9 and secure the future for OS4.0 (then we can talk about idea's to implement in OS4.0)
Everyone should thank fleecy for making an apperance on here and answering questions, who else would do something like that?
Thanks Fleecy!
WOA2000 news : Comment 82 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by D1 on 10-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 80 (Keith Blakemore-Noble):
"Keith Blakemore-Noble" it is people like you that don't support the amiga!
The "AMIGA" has obviously given you some grief rather then some joy?
Is it really that hard for you to make a small investment?, how many of you here waste money on junk food and smokes everyday?, is it that hard to put aside $5 a week and in 2 months you can then purchase OS3.9?... really sit down and think, expand your mind a little.
I admire Fleecy & Bill, Amiga Inc, and all there work, I appreciate everything he is trying to do with "AMIGA", so many have failed, and they are trying there damn hardest to not only support the future of the "AMIGA" but also look after us "CLASSIC" owners. They don't have to do it, but they are...
WOA2000 news : Comment 83 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by Kay Are Ulvestad on 11-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 60 (Roj):
> Comment out setPATCH from the OS3.5 startup. Without it, OS3.5 feels like an
> unpatched OS3.5, but notice how it also feels like an unpatched OS3.1.
-
Hehe, well that is quite correct! I have an explanation for it though. Have you noticed how your machine resets first time when it runs setpatch? Ever wondered why? Well, in the old days, I believe setpatch was used for making some slight fixes to the OS. Today, because the OS upgrades come without new ROM chips, ALL updates to the ROM software has to be made resident in RAM, which requires a reset to initialize properly. So, if you comment out Setpatch, you will be back the 3.1 ROM software...which could explain the similarity you have observed. That and the fact that 3.1 and 3.5 are closely related versions of the same OS...it shouldn't feel that different anyway.
-
Kay
WOA2000 news : Comment 84 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by fleecy on 11-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 65 (A3K):
That is exactly what we are saying.
All our research suggested that AmigaOS was a dead market, but we thought,
hey, why not really find out - the money spent on developing OS3.9 was substantial but nothing like the money we need to spend on OS4, so we decided
that instead of relying on our research, let's see if there really are the users out there, and you can't just do it by saying, please register, it needs more than that.
So yes, both AmigaOS and AmigaDE would move forwards and then meet somewhere down the line.
WOA2000 news : Comment 85 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 11-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 80 (Keith Blakemore-Noble):
Well said Keith!!!! I want Amiga OS 4, not Elate or any other alien operating system that may or may not have the Amiga name on it.
It would be a crime to see such a wonderful operating system dumped like that. It's a million times better than Elate anyday.
WOA2000 news : Comment 86 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by fleecy on 11-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 80 (Keith Blakemore-Noble):
>Fleecy, with respect, that is utter bullshit.
I'm sorry Keith - I wasn't aware you spoke to all the dealers and
developers, or understand the economic case for developing an entire platform,
supporting it, marketing it, hiring the developers, doing all the graphics. You'll have to send me an email showing me your calculations.
>Look, you guys at AInc *KNOW* we want a PPC AmigaOS - hell, if we didn't want >it then why the hell are you spending so much time answering posts from people >asking why you are not letting H&P develop a PPC AmigaOS>
And that's the key sentence isn't it Keith "Look, you guys at AInc *KNOW* we want a PPC AmigaOS" - How many is WE, Keith? You tell me what the number is?
Then back it up! Then show the business case for it, not the "I'll scream and scream and scream until I'm sick" case. Sounds hard, doesn't it? Well business
is hard. Go ask Hyperion, Titan, Epic, H&P.
If the AmigaOS is to move forwards, it will do it properly, with full support,
full development, full marketing, not done by 3 or 4 guys. That is a worst
injustice, to just drag the corpse around, refusing to admit its dead. It can
live again, and spectacularly so. We have PROMISED that - but not for 50 people
who can write lots of nasty emails. We will do it for 50,000 people, because that is market that can form the beginnings of a new life.
>Let me ask YOU something, Fleecy. Given a lot of us want a PPC AmigaOS, then >why the fsck shoudl we waste (in our eyes) money on OS3.9 which is OS3.1 plus >bug fixes plus Amiunet shareware, when we already have all of that and it is >not what we want?
Again this guessing "A lot of us" - you don't know, you can't justify it, except
that "a lot of us" want it. We are prepared to meet our obligation to develop
the next generation AmigaOS, even going so far as to call it that, and get ride of the stupid "classic" name, which Schindler invented so it could be killed off. If the users can't even be bothered to show their support, except for some
ranty emails about how "lots of us" want it, then there is no point.
>ESPECIALLY as you have already pulled the "buy this if you want a PPC OS to be >developed" line when you release OS3.5?
We didn't release OS3.5. We pushed Gateway to do it, I got sacked for pushing it, and the Schindler caved in after the anger at me getting sacked, but it
had nothing to do with a PPC OS - H&P sent a document to Gateway offering to do
it but as far as I know, it went straight in the bin, so get your facts straight.
>Sorry, Fleecy, but it is increasingly obvious you lot do NOT want to sell us a >PPC OS, and you will resort ot any lies and marketing bull to persuade us it >is OUR fault simply because we do not buy irrelevant stuff we've already told >you we do not need.
Then you are blind because nothing would give me greater pleasure than to announce AmigaOS4 - you aren't the one who spent 4 years of his life
trying to wrestle control of Amiga away from non Amigans, you aren't the one,
like Bill and myself who put our lifesavings, our houses, everything into
this company, so if we can do that, and you can't even be bothered to buy
an AmigaOS upgrade, then why should we even listen to you.
WOA2000 news : Comment 87 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by Roj on 11-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 86 (fleecy):
Look, if every product produced were only produced because the manufacturer knew for sure there was a market for it, we'd be able to purchase about three things today: A house, clothes, and food for our horses. You've got to take a risk if you want to make money in this world.
I'm not the least bit interested in OS 3.5 or 3.9. The packages are just too "Fred Fishy" for what I'm after. I *AM* interested in OS4.0. But what A Inc is doing is much like Chevy testing the market for Camaros by trying to push station wagons on everyone and backing it up with "We won't produce any more Camaros unless we sell a boatloat of station wagons!"
Rather than bait the 4.0 interest by unloading 3.x patches on them, why don't you go straight to the source and offer up a preorder/prepay system. Everyone else is, so what's the big deal? If A Inc could announce that 4.0 would be functional with future G3/G4 boards, I believe people would be coming out of the woodwork to preorder/prepay, and you'd be able to tally the results based on the actual product you're shooting for, which ultimately is the only way to go. But I think gauging total sales of OS4.0 on total sales of 3.x is a little unprofessional at best. What do people who purchased 3.5 do with them, toss them in the bin after just over a year of use? Are you going to count 3.5 purchases along with 3.9 purchases to get the final result? That's the only fair way to do it.
WOA2000 news : Comment 88 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by Björn Hagström on 11-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 87 (Roj):
"Rather than bait the 4.0 interest by unloading 3.x patches on them, why don't you go straight to the source and offer up a preorder/prepay system. Everyone else is, so what's the big deal? If A Inc could announce that 4.0 would be functional with future G3/G4 boards, I believe people would be coming out of the woodwork to preorder/prepay, and you'd be able to tally the results based on the actual product you're shooting for, which ultimately is the only way to go. But I think gauging total sales of OS4.0 on total sales of 3.x is a little unprofessional at best. What do people who purchased 3.5 do with them, toss them in the bin after just over a year of use? Are you going to count 3.5 purchases along with 3.9 purchases to get the final result? That's the only fair way to do it."
People wouldn't come out of the woodwork for preordering. They would sit there
and complain about having to pay for what they would call "vaporware". There
will always be people in the amiga community that complains whatever Amiga Inc
chooses to do. You are just one of those guys who are complaining over a
choice that Amiga Inc has made. They can't satisfy everyone in the community
and that includes you.
There comes a time when one can't listen to everyone anymore and just have to
go for a way to do whatever has to be done. Amiga Inc has choosen a way, if
people would just accept this then we could all just move along and actually
get anywhere.
This is the way it will be for Aos3.9/4.0. This is the utter and final reality.
Accept it, and do whatever YOU can to make 4.0 happen.
WOA2000 news : Comment 89 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by phil on 11-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 88 (Björn Hagström):
Agree, but why not simply made what people want?
An Os ppc, Why waste money by made something half.
Like i say préviously, i am ready to pay well for
these OS (with new rom).
Another question , why simply not stop the old OS
and develop DE for the classic PPC base (hope they
keep the feeling :)). We don't have so much user
to divise market in two side. Let's live morphos, by
support and help them to take the place of old OS
and go for DE (maybe i'm a little bit innocent, i
don't have an old story in amiga).
phil
WOA2000 news : Comment 90 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by Björn Hagström on 11-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 89 (phil):
"Agree, but why not simply made what people want?
An Os ppc, Why waste money by made something half.
Like i say préviously, i am ready to pay well for
these OS (with new rom)."
Aos3.9 is what we have. It is what there is to get. There is
no more money to be spend for its developement. The money has
been spent for it. A PPC AOS won't materialise from thin air
just because someone wants it today. 3.9 is what we HAVE, here,
today. This is what the situation is right now.
The sales of 3.9 will finance the developement of 4.0. Nothing
else will. The sales of 3.9 will be the foundation for a PPC AOS.
WOA2000 news : Comment 91 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by fleecy on 11-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 87 (Roj):
We had looked at doing a preorder for OS4, but the Amiga community has had
many nasty experiences of preordering. That is why we decided not to do it
that way but to base it on an actual product.
Christian, can you change your poll to see how many people would accept, and pay for a preorder for OS4 PPC?
It won't change the 50k number, but don't let it ever be said that we don't listen.
Of course we will work with companies to make sure it works on existing and future boards, as well as on the AmigaOne. I am not promising that if some company has taken design liberties that it will, but we would do our best.
Let's see what happens, but the sooner we act, the sooner we can get it done.
WOA2000 news : Comment 92 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by Syzygy on 11-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
Hey Christian, new poll idea...
-
Will you buy OS3.9?
1. Of course!
2. Only to secure OS4 production.
3. No, I will buy OS4 though.
4. OS4 is never coming, give me MorphOS.
-
Peace,
Syzygy.
WOA2000 news : Comment 93 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by Yuca on 11-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 86 (fleecy):
Well, if Amiga Inc counts the people who want a PPC-OS by the sale numbers of OS3.9, who counts the people who prefer to see Amiga working on Ami (like me)? Someone above wrote that Amiga just is skipping one OS-generation with Ami, that is what I think too. I dont believe 50k people out there will buy OS3.9. HOw many PPC-cards have been selled for almost-too-old (and almost-fried) 68k motherboards? Come on, start counting numbers. BoXer is still not seen, not as 68k, not as PPC. bPlan? Honestly, better use their HW for Ami. PPC-OS nowadays ia waste of time, mostly for Amiga, as they would have to put money, time, effort in to this OS. I think, all this is better used for Ami. And dont come with H&P. If they code the PPC-OS, it would also need time, money and attention from AI. After Tom Schmidt announcement, a PPC-OS would have been THE alternative. After Aminos/Amigas announcements, Ami is the choice. Why PPC-OS4? Ami even will run (as promised) on upgraded 68k-PPC-Amigas?
Get realistic. And I hope Fleecy and the rest of AI will drop these PPC-OS plans and invest their time, mopney and attention (I know, I am repeating) in Ami.
Fleecy, mail me when Amiga Inc need Alpha-testers for Ami (I think this would help, to test Ami once on off-the-shelf-PCs, and not only on the AmigaONE/DE).
See ya 3Q2001!
WOA2000 news : Comment 94 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by Yuca on 11-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 92 (Syzygy):
>Hey Christian, new poll idea...
>Will you buy OS3.9?
>1. Of course!
>2. Only to secure OS4 production.
>3. No, I will buy OS4 though.
>4. OS4 is never coming, give me MorphOS.
You forgot:
5. Give me Ami! And give it quick to me!
WOA2000 news : Comment 95 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by Martin Baute on 11-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 49 (Anonymous):
>> Whoops, I think you intended to say "slowdown of the dying
>> process", not "growth". Does _anybody_ here _honestly_
>> believe there is _any_ future for the Classic OS/HW line?
>> Who will buy it, aside from people already using Amigas?
>> Where do you see _growth_?
> Eyetech/Escenda - predator
> DCE - CS/B PPC
> Elbox - Shark PPC
> BPlan - PPC MB
> Metabox - Amijoe
You missed the point, completely. Who will _buy_ these products,
if not long-time Amiga users looking for up-to-date hardware? Do
you think _any_ new computer users or converts will buy this?
WOA2000 news : Comment 96 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by Andrzej J. Debicki on 11-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 84 (fleecy):
***
All our research suggested that AmigaOS was a dead market,
but we thought, hey, why not really find out - the money
spent on developing OS3.9 was substantial but nothing like
the money we need to spend on OS4, so we decided that
instead of relying on our research, let's see if there really
are the users out there, and you can't just do it by saying,
please register, it needs more than that.
***
Don't you think Fleecy, that it is a little childisch? If everythinks tells
you that something is not worth putting money in, why to try to spend money
in it? If all research tell that AmigaOS is dead why to try to make another
update? Did OS 3.5 told you that there is a chance? If yes, then which research
told you AOS is dead. If no, why to produce OS 3.9 and kill all amigans dreams
about PPC OS with one number? (I still hope, taht OS 4.0 will appear).
***
So yes, both AmigaOS and AmigaDE would move forwards
and then meet somewhere down the line.
***
May I suggest better way than saying horrible things about AmigaOS to amigans?
If you want to go the way you stated 4 lines before (AmigaOS and AmigaDE finally
gets together) why not to let OS 4 to see the light without any conditions?
I think that much more current amigans will transform to AmigaDE in the future
if you let us have our PPC OS now. Or maybe you are afraid of PPC OS for Amiga?
Maybe it can be way better than AmigaDE (maybe even current AOS is)? In my
opinion there is nothihing that can compete with AmigaOS. I wait for AmigaDE
because I want to see if it can replace my AmigaOS. But day after day I doubt
it more and more. And Amiga Inc. decisions and words won't help to change my
opinion. But, If Amiga is dead as told by research, community is small so why
bother? Kill AmigaOS and be happy with AmigaDE.
WOA2000 news : Comment 97 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 11-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 86 (fleecy):
When you started back in January you had the good faith of almost everyone in the Amiga community, now, because of YOUR actions you will have noticed that a growing number of people are insulted by what you're doing, insulted by your politically correct 'spin' on things and fed up by the way you try and threaten everyone with legal action if you percieve them as a threat.
You have lost the support of the Amiga community. If you don't believe me why don't you try logging on to one of the Amiga IRC channels, reading any of the message boards or mailing lists and you will hear the tone.
WOA2000 news : Comment 98 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by Björn Hagström on 11-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 96 (Andrzej J. Debicki):
"why not to let OS 4 to see the light without any conditions?"
Amiga Inc doesn't have endless heaps of gold to make an OS that will
result in 10000 or so sold units. Aos3.9 is their way to see if there
is a market for such an OS. No market, no OS.
WOA2000 news : Comment 99 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by Andrzej J. Debicki on 11-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 98 (Björn Hagström):
***
Amiga Inc doesn't have endless heaps of gold to make
an OS that will result in 10000 or so sold units.
Aos3.9 is their way to see if there is a market for
such an OS. No market, no OS.
***
I didn't read whole discussion here so maybe it was
cleared somewhere but I thought that it is Haage&Partner
who want to invest money - AInc has nothing to do with
it (except receiving profits ;-) ).
WOA2000 news : Comment 100 of 184ANN.lu
Posted by Björn Hagström on 11-Dec-2000 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 99 (Andrzej J. Debicki):
"I didn't read whole discussion here so maybe it was
cleared somewhere but I thought that it is Haage&Partner
who want to invest money - AInc has nothing to do with
it (except receiving profits ;-) )."
Then I suggest that you read the whole discussion.
Anonymous, there are 184 items in your selection (but only 134 shown due to limitation) [1 - 50] [51 - 100] [101 - 150] [151 - 184]
Back to Top