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[News] Picasso vs. Elbox?ANN.lu
Posted on 15-Jan-2001 20:15 GMT by Christian Kemp17 comments
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The Official CyberGraphX Homepage currently features several articles on disagreements between Tobias Abt and Elbox. To sum it up, there will be official Voodoo3 drivers from the Picasso96 team, who are expressing doubts in the TV/Overlay stuff presented by Elbox at WOA. There are also several responses from Elbox, including statements on the TV tuner and 100MBit ethernet cards.
Picasso vs. Elbox? : Comment 1 of 17ANN.lu
Posted by the man in the shadows on 14-Jan-2001 23:00 GMT
Considering that Elbox was not even using an overlay technique to do the "PIP" effect I would think that Elbox are doing pretty good. The only thing that I wish Frank would stop doing is posting mailing list information to his web site. I mean, it's like he's _trying_ make both the P96 team and Elbox look bad. Then the question might be, "what does the CGX developer team who also supports the G-Rexx have to lose". If information is going to be posted about this, it should be posted somewhere besides the CGX site first.
Proud supporter of P96.
Picasso vs. Elbox? : Comment 2 of 17ANN.lu
Posted by victor # on 14-Jan-2001 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (the man in the shadows):
Absolutly! Agreed. (They don't even seen to be unfriendly to each other.) Not to mention it was Frank who caused Elbox to go on its own, rejecting already all others, including the P96-team. (At least as we all heard it.)
Picasso vs. Elbox? : Comment 3 of 17ANN.lu
Posted by Dave on 14-Jan-2001 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (the man in the shadows):
AFAIK, it's not Frank (or not solely him) that updates the sections of the site which contain the news or the mediator pages. And a lot of it was serious questions that needed to be asked. Of course, any pettyness (and I don't remember that much on the list) can be done without.
Picasso vs. Elbox? : Comment 4 of 17ANN.lu
Posted by Darrin on 15-Jan-2001 23:00 GMT
It's sad to see that people who try and pass themselves off as Amiga hardware "experts" are still trying to slam the Mediator when they obviously (unless Elbox are lying and I doubt that VERY much) haven't got the foggiest how it works, what it can really do or how well the drivers have been written. There is a concerted assault underway which targets certain Amiga software and hardware manufactures who dare to deliver products. Who are the people behind the smear campaign? Well it's our good old vapourware manufactures of rival products who, rather than wait until their finished products are ready and can be physically compaired, would rather publish unfounded garbage on non-existant shortcomings in a feeble attempt to sabotage Elbox/H&P sales.
Picasso vs. Elbox? : Comment 5 of 17ANN.lu
Posted by Cluke on 15-Jan-2001 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (victor #):
Hmm, here was me thinking that allowing the Mediator pages on VGR was a nice show of openmindedness and was in the spirit of fairness. Shows you can put a negative spin on anything if you so desire!
Picasso vs. Elbox? : Comment 6 of 17ANN.lu
Posted by Cluke on 15-Jan-2001 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (victor #):
Hmm, here was me thinking that allowing the Mediator pages on VGR was a nice show of openmindedness and was in the spirit of fairness. Shows you can put a negative spin on anything if you so desire!
Picasso vs. Elbox? : Comment 7 of 17ANN.lu
Posted by Darrin on 15-Jan-2001 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Cluke):
You're right - it is. It also helps Elbox defend themselves against the unfounded attacks from their rivals.
Picasso vs. Elbox? : Comment 8 of 17ANN.lu
Posted by theJUDGE on 15-Jan-2001 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (the man in the shadows):
The Cybergraphx site is not run by Frank Mariak, it's run by a third-party as
a general amiga RTG site, although the third-party has close contacts with the
cybergraphx team.
Picasso vs. Elbox? : Comment 9 of 17ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 15-Jan-2001 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (theJUDGE):
First of all I absolutely agree that the fact that the vgr website
hosts the mediator webpage indicates openmindeness as well as the fact
that there are alway both Elbox and DCE adds in the site.
Secondly vgr means Vision Factory Development Graphics Repository.
And thirdly the same guy is the webmaster of the MorphOS site.
Robert (RobR) is a really nice guy.
The only thing that Frank did bad was the licencing issue. From then
and on Elbox got isolated and that's a VERY bad move for everyone.
They should take in mind that Eyetech PAYED(they said) DCE and they
licenced the CGX voodoo drivers for their upcoming boards. Why didn't
Elbox do that too? And not only they didn't but after that they didn't
pay the P96 guys too.
I think that TRUE cooperation will the best thing for the Amiga
market.
Picasso vs. Elbox? : Comment 10 of 17ANN.lu
Posted by the man in the shadows on 15-Jan-2001 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (theJUDGE):
> The Cybergraphx site is not run by Frank Mariak, it's run by a third-party as
> a general amiga RTG site, although the third-party has close contacts with
> the cybergraphx team.
You know, if you want to cut down a tree, you don't snip the leaves off. My post was aimed directly at Frank for him to do something about it. Knowing how things work at most web sites, that's the only way to get things done. For being a part of something which has the ability to do something about their own tarnished name, then it would be Frank to ask to remove or discontinue the slanderous statements about both P96 and Elbox. I personally couldn't care less if Frank hasn't touched that web site in years, he's still a point of contact.
Picasso vs. Elbox? : Comment 11 of 17ANN.lu
Posted by Mike on 15-Jan-2001 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (the man in the shadows):
I'm not a big fan of the CGX team (especially after having bought CGX 4 when they posted news that they would support the Mediator :)... but this is just a bit silly. The maintainers of this site has done nothing but repost public messages between P96, Elbox, and CGX. If they want to make themselves look silly by slandering each other, we should thank RobR for keeping a record of it, lest history be re-written.
If you go back through the archive, you can find plenty of negative stuff about CGX and by the CGX guys towards Elbox too. Were this web site the CGX propaganda machine you seem to think it is, why whould they still have things accessible like the joint press release from CGX and Elbox announcing had agreed to do the Mediator video card drivers? You know, the agreement that the CGX guys later said never existed? :)
My point is that if this were truly some lame propaganda site, they would have gotten rid of such damning evidence a long time ago. You should all be thanking RobR for his efforts in providing important news and information (on a wealth of things besides CGX) to the Amiga world.
</rant over>
Picasso vs. Elbox? : Comment 12 of 17ANN.lu
Posted by theJUDGE on 15-Jan-2001 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (the man in the shadows):
Well, Mariak can't stop posting the mailing list information to the site, if he's not
running the website, the webmaster of vgr is the one doing the posting, directing your comments to
the proper person would probably have better results.
Picasso vs. Elbox? : Comment 13 of 17ANN.lu
Posted by Victor on 17-Jan-2001 23:00 GMT
>The only thing that Frank did bad was the licencing issue. From then
>and on Elbox got isolated and that's a VERY bad move for everyone.
>They should take in mind that Eyetech PAYED(they said) DCE and they
>licenced the CGX voodoo drivers for their upcoming boards. Why didn't
>Elbox do that too?
It seems that Frank knew perfectly well what he was doing. As you read
on the vgr website, you may learn some interesting things: it turned out
that Frank had an agreement with Elbox for writing Voodoo3 drivers for
Mediator. Following this agreement, Frank received hardware worth some
thousand DM from Elbox. Frank Mariak wrote a Voodoo3 drivers for Mediator.
At this time, Frank sold exclusive rights to Voodoo drivers to the DCE.
In my opinion, the whole exclusive rights thing was aimed at making Voodoo
drivers for Mediator NOT available, to facilitate selling old graphic cards
made by DCE. Ha, Elbox made a surprise and wrote its own Voodoo3 drivers.
>And not only they didn't but after that they didn't
>pay the P96 guys too.
This was Elbox who wrote the Voodoo3 drivers for P96 and not P96 guys,
so what Elbox would have to pay them for? If P96 guys write, as they
say, their own Voodoo3 driver for Mediator, will Elbox demand P96 guys
to pay Elbox?
Picasso vs. Elbox? : Comment 14 of 17ANN.lu
Posted by Tore on 18-Jan-2001 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (Victor):
I aggree.Elbox have don nothing else than good and both vgr and p96 has worked against elbox.I am really mad at them both and hope elbox wins this match.
Is thanks to elbox we have a full working pci-board and they deserve all honnors for the pci progress on the amiga market.
Without elbox there would never been pciboards in the amigamarket.
Mediator is the first and best pciboards for the amiga.
I myself going to buy mediator A-4000 REAL SOON.....Yust have to wait on my new a-4000 first.
In my eyes elbox will always be the good guys
Regards Tore
Picasso vs. Elbox? : Comment 15 of 17ANN.lu
Posted by Paul Watkins on 20-Jan-2001 23:00 GMT
Is anyone else getting fed up with all this Elbox-bashing ??? By all accounts,
the mediator is a superb piece of hardware, and the support so far could be
considered second to none. The product works well, and Elbox have proved again
and again that they are prepared to back it all the way. I'd advise everyone to
BUY THE MEDIATOR NOW, as it is the best possible solution.
I can't beleive people are complaining about a "lack of drivers" !!! Other
promised PCI hardware hasn't even arrived yet !!!! Elbox is first off the
block with the hardware, and have already assembled an impressive array of
useable drivers, and none of the other companies have even released their
hardware yet !
Lastly, about the P96 thing. After some thought, I revised my opinion on this.
So the P96 team should make money just because someone produces new hardware ?
And not pay a cent for licensing or anything ? Suddenly their "shareware"
product which they no longer develop is worth something to them again BECAUSE
of the new hardware on the market. And it's still up to the end user of P96
to register the product. It's shareware status has not changed. No doubt there
will be a lot of NEW users of P96, who did not have graphics cards before.
Elbox is doing the P96 team a huge favour. All the P96 team had to do was
encourage people to register the product. But they have lost so much
credibility by their negative comments, that I doubt anyone will care much
about registering the product now. Especially since it's no longer in
development.
HAHAHAHA P96 - YOU LOSE
P.S. I don't work for Elbox or anything. But I'd like to :)
Picasso vs. Elbox? : Comment 16 of 17ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 22-Jan-2001 23:00 GMT
Elbox surely produced great hardware, and hopefully they have success and give the amiga market a push in the right direction. But no matter what you think of the p96 authors, it is a sad fact that Elbox stole intellectual property, and they don't even realize that it is a criminal action if you look at their press releases. Every lawyer would immediately tell them that their actions were/are highly illegal. There is no difference to software piracy.
I feel sort of pity for the p96 authors. They created an amazing piece of software, had every right to request money in exchange of their intellectual property, got ripped off by a company who obviously thought they were requesting too much money. And now they are being flamed in various mailing lists.
Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against Elbox, but I think they should consult a lawyer, speak with the p96 authors and really try to come to an agreement.
Nobody who buys the excellent mediator card should be forced to finance pirated software (cause that is what their driver would be considered if it came to a verdict at a court, no matter if the court is in the USA or Germany (or any other EU state)
Picasso vs. Elbox? : Comment 17 of 17ANN.lu
Posted by Alcemyst on 22-Jan-2001 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (Anonymous):
for all we know u could be one of the P96 Authors
so pls dont post anonymous
it can tarnish your comments.
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