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[Files] First Amiga OS 3.9 UpdatesANN.lu
Posted on 10-Feb-2001 13:22 GMT by Christian Kemp22 comments
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AmiRaouL writes: "First Amiga OS 3.9 Updates! Locales have been replaced for more languages and new Genesis Reaction GUI!"
Category: /
License: /		Download: Locale 3.9
Download Genesis Prefs
First Amiga OS 3.9 Updates : Comment 1 of 22ANN.lu
Posted by m0ns00n on 09-Feb-2001 23:00 GMT
Well, they did choose Reaction for a new standard, so I guess we'll have to cope with it ;o)
Downloading.
First Amiga OS 3.9 Updates : Comment 2 of 22ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 09-Feb-2001 23:00 GMT
There is nothing wrong with reaction, and of course that H&P geezer said they have already got a version of reaction for the AmigaDE, so porting will be easy.
First Amiga OS 3.9 Updates : Comment 3 of 22ANN.lu
Posted by m0ns00n on 09-Feb-2001 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Anonymous):
* Reaction is primitive -> MUI totally exceeds it
* Reaction doesn't look good, and has close to 0% configurability, opposed to many other guis
* Reaction Prefs likes to crash on my system, which all other H&P software do too
Perhaps we should replace GTK with Motif?
First Amiga OS 3.9 Updates : Comment 4 of 22ANN.lu
Posted by m0ns00n on 09-Feb-2001 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (m0ns00n):
Oh, hell, if Haage&Partner are in on AmigaDE, we are really doomed.
First Amiga OS 3.9 Updates : Comment 5 of 22ANN.lu
Posted by Ian Shurmer on 09-Feb-2001 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (m0ns00n):
Have you not considered that it could be your system that is the problem?
I haven't had any problems - all H&P software works fine on my miggy
Regards,
Ian
First Amiga OS 3.9 Updates : Comment 6 of 22ANN.lu
Posted by Amifan on 09-Feb-2001 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (m0ns00n):
Stop trying to run the H&P software on your a500 with OS 1.2 :)
Reaction not stable??? Ehem as far as I know Ibrowse is running with MUI,don't try to resize you're window while getting a heavy-pictured-and-tooled-up-with-javascript-page.....do I need to tell you more?
First Amiga OS 3.9 Updates : Comment 7 of 22ANN.lu
Posted by David Scheibler on 09-Feb-2001 23:00 GMT
Holger Kruse did some statistics with Miami's Reaction and MUI
GUI classes which say that reaction is often slower than MUI.
First Amiga OS 3.9 Updates : Comment 8 of 22ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 09-Feb-2001 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (David Scheibler):
He could do all the tests he wants, but we dont need a fast GUI, we want stability. MUI classes just have too much problems, esp stack, and do not free all used memory, and of course there are too many that do the same job.
First Amiga OS 3.9 Updates : Comment 9 of 22ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 09-Feb-2001 23:00 GMT
Speaking of H&P software... does anyone know where on the net I can read a fair & indepth review of StormGCC?
First Amiga OS 3.9 Updates : Comment 10 of 22ANN.lu
Posted by StAn on 10-Feb-2001 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 9 (Anonymous):
All that I know about StormC4 is that the documentation is only in German and that it makes some (enforcer etc.) hits (but I don't remember when).
First Amiga OS 3.9 Updates : Comment 11 of 22ANN.lu
Posted by X on 10-Feb-2001 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (m0ns00n):
Stop using all freaky hacks, and you'll soon
realise that there's nothing wrong with Reaction
programs. For example: I have a clean installation
of AmigaOS 3.9. I can run the Reaction programs over
and over again, and they still don't crash. :)
First Amiga OS 3.9 Updates : Comment 12 of 22ANN.lu
Posted by the man in the shadows on 10-Feb-2001 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (m0ns00n):
Reaction is rock solid here. More often than not I have MUI programs crashing than Reaction. The _only_ gui hack program that I have running at any given time is Birdie. The only time that I've seen reaction itself crash is when a configuration of Visual Prefs has some whacked out numbers on the horizontal and vertical border sizes. Personally, I'm suprized that gadtools and others don't choke on that one.
If Reaction is not rock solid on your end... there's something wrong with your setup. Besides, I'd rather have a solid foundation with Reaction than a hacked up piece together conglomeration like that of MUI. If more than one piece of software on your system crashes, then you might want to think about checking your hardware for potential problems. If it is software from one specific group (say for instance H&P) then you might check to see how the software is being run with the help of SnoopDOS or similar programs. I'm just glad that I don't have to bother upgrading my Reaction classes about once a week thanks to the developement of such companies like Vapor and other custom libraries. Not saying that MUI is bad, it can be bad if it's not setup properly.
First Amiga OS 3.9 Updates : Comment 13 of 22ANN.lu
Posted by torsten on 10-Feb-2001 23:00 GMT
It took me about one day to learn AWNPipe und to write my own Reaction-GUI with ARexx.
Can anyone say this about MUI??
First it was PowerUp against WarpOS, now its MUI against ReAction?
Don't we have enough problems that must be solved?
First Amiga OS 3.9 Updates : Comment 14 of 22ANN.lu
Posted by Amifan on 10-Feb-2001 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (torsten):
The problem with most Amiga users nowadays is that they are not used to have a choice between different software doing the same (apart from countless taskbar clones) :)
First Amiga OS 3.9 Updates : Comment 15 of 22ANN.lu
Posted by David Gerber on 11-Feb-2001 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (the man in the shadows):
The only libraries that need upgrades are vapor_toolkit.library and the
Textinput classes. You're not forced to try beta versions either.
Reaction uses BOOPSI and all its design flaws. If you want to know more,
search for the ObtainGIRPort() patch on Aminet and understand the main problem
with BOOPSI.
First Amiga OS 3.9 Updates : Comment 16 of 22ANN.lu
Posted by the man in the shadows on 11-Feb-2001 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (David Gerber):
I appriciate your efforts David but not being a programmer or beta tester I didn't understand one bit of the ObtainGIRPort() and problems with the boopsi coding. I would be considered more of the enduser rather than a beta tester or code developer. The only questions that I have though, what is so important about the VaporToolKit stuff that's not available anywhere else? Do I really have no option to turn off the "check for updates" from vapor? Why can't I use some of the Vapor programs without the need to install the cmanager.library? Is there really a need for a central mimetypes offering? Why can't the vapor products use MUI classes that are already out there or work with the author of those classes to improve upon them? I guess I really don't understand the entire drive behind what Vapor is doing.
First Amiga OS 3.9 Updates : Comment 17 of 22ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 11-Feb-2001 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (David Gerber):
Isnt mui classes basically boopsi classes
First Amiga OS 3.9 Updates : Comment 18 of 22ANN.lu
Posted by David Gerber on 12-Feb-2001 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (the man in the shadows):
>I appriciate your efforts David but not being a programmer or beta tester I >didn't understand one bit of the ObtainGIRPort() and problems with the boopsi >coding. I would be considered more of the enduser rather than a beta tester or >code developer.
This means that network driven applications can cause deadlocks if the user is selecting BOOPSI objects. The ObtainGIRPort() patch was distributed with... Grapevine.
>The only questions that I have though, what is so important about the >VaporToolKit stuff that's not available anywhere else?
vapor_toolkit.library is a shared library which contains code we use along the VaporWare applications. Instead of putting the common functions separately in every one of them, we put them in a shared library. That way less memory is used.
>Do I really have no option to turn off the "check for updates" from vapor?
Just delete vapor_update.library. This library is completely optional.
>Why can't I use some of the Vapor programs without the need to install the >cmanager.library?
Because it is needed for Bookmarks support.
>Is there really a need for a central mimetypes offering?
Yes. But some users requested per apps settings as well so that might come in a later version of MIMEPrefs.
>Why can't the vapor products use MUI classes that are already out there or >work with the author of those classes to improve upon them?
For Textinput ? Well, there's no other classe that does everything we need so... there's Textinput (which is documented and can be used by other apps btw, not only VaporWare).
>I guess I really don't understand the entire drive behind what Vapor is doing.
Maybe you're too used to people doing only announcements.
First Amiga OS 3.9 Updates : Comment 19 of 22ANN.lu
Posted by David Gerber on 12-Feb-2001 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (Anonymous):
>Isnt mui classes basically boopsi classes
No. MUI is the solution to BOOPSI's design flaws.
First Amiga OS 3.9 Updates : Comment 20 of 22ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 12-Feb-2001 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (David Gerber):
I remember R.Mainz talking about putting MIME prefs into the datatypes spec, why not support this.
First Amiga OS 3.9 Updates : Comment 21 of 22ANN.lu
Posted by the man in the shadows on 13-Feb-2001 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (David Gerber):
> This means that network driven applications can cause deadlocks if the user
> is selecting BOOPSI objects. The ObtainGIRPort() patch was distributed
> with... Grapevine.
Yup. That's exactly what the patch thing was talking about. I still have no clue what it means though. Guess I need to be some sort of a programmer in order to understand it. Any idea how Yvon got around it?
> vapor_toolkit.library is a shared library which contains code we use along
> the VaporWare applications. Instead of putting the common functions
> separately in every one of them, we put them in a shared library. That way
> less memory is used.
This is bad. To me this is close to the same attitude that some windows developers use. For instance have a look at Corel and any of their programs that they offer. Let's just say that you like Corel Reminder. Corel Reminder scans through all of the DLL files associated with the Corel suite. Now let's say that some of the functions of Corel Reminder are also available in Borlands QuickNotes. The problem is that I have to have a completely different library for Borlands products only because of the fact the library information from Corel are not documented or available for public use. Now I can understand some components of it, but why not openly document most of the library functions so that others can use the same library? If a user only uses one product from vapor, that's a large waste of resources.
> Just delete vapor_update.library. This library is completely optional.
Done. YAY! Can this be documented in the installer as to what it's for? A good example would be: "vapor_update - reminds you of new releases from the vapor crew when the program is launched".
> > cmanager.library?
> Because it is needed for Bookmarks support.
Well, okay, that one I can understand... if I used bookmarks. I'll put it bluntly and state that I only use V³ on extremely rare occaisions (once a week is really pushing the limits, maybe every other would be more accurate) and thus do not like to maintain more than one collection of bookmarks. The only time that I open V³ up is when I'm calling it open with a valid URL from inside of AWeb. Since I maintain all of my bookmarks in AWeb, why is there a need to have cmanager available for V³ just to run? Why not check for existance of lib and if ~open(), don't allow bookmarking. A program refusing to run entirely from the lack of a simple function is pretty cheesy imho.
> > central mimetypes?
> Yes. But some users requested per apps settings as well so that might come
> in a later version of MIMEPrefs.
That would be a welcome feature indeed. The only thing that I know that uses central mimetypes is the windows environment.
> > Why can't vapor work with the author of those classes to improve upon
> > them?
> For Textinput ? Well, there's no other classe that does everything we need
> so... there's Textinput (which is documented and can be used by other apps
> btw, not only VaporWare).
I can't quite tell if you answered the question... or completely avoided it.
> > I guess I really don't understand the entire drive behind what Vapor is doing.
> Maybe you're too used to people doing only announcements.
Heh, you'd be suprised. Only request that I can ask of the vapor team: a thorough and completely overhauled arexx port for all of the vapor programs available along with STDIO handling. A good example, I can send arexx commands to amtelnet... but I can't get a response. What about having an arexx command sent to v³ reporting the link and proceeding to send that over to cmanager to verify if it exists and if it doesn't add it to the group while pulling information off of the page to update the lists. Another idea would be to send a message to cmanager compiling all of the available web sites that contain news information or classified in a specific catagory while then sending v³ over to the sites one by one recursively going into each of the different links about 2 pages deep and compiling the new information in text only format. Then again, that's just the tip of the iceberg of what I would request. If this is done, please don't implement a completely different scripting language, that's what arexx is for, and it's system wide.
First Amiga OS 3.9 Updates : Comment 22 of 22ANN.lu
Posted by James Jacobs on 14-Feb-2001 23:00 GMT
MUI is filthy crap, a waste of hard disk space, unstable; anyone who believes otherwise is a lamer.
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