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[News] REPULSE soundcard still alive and kicking.ANN.lu
Posted on 09-Mar-2001 18:14 GMT by Christian Kemp16 comments
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Brent Santin wrote: I've been notified that the Repulse Zorro-II sound-card is still alive and kicking. This has been verified by an update on the REPULSE website. The REPULSE web site update states that the card is still targetted for release in the first quarter of 2001, but there have been some delays recently. I asked one of the designers if a MEDIATOR/PC-Soundblaster combo would be competition for the dedicated Zorro-II REPULSE. He replied that due to DMA restrictions with the Mediator, such a combo would not be a very good idea. Not to mention the REPULSE comes with real RCA and optical jacks, which is required for any serious audio work.
REPULSE soundcard still alive and kicking. : Comment 1 of 16ANN.lu
Posted by Brent Santin on 08-Mar-2001 23:00 GMT
by the way...the REPULSE can be pre-ordered through software hut (www.softhut.com) for buyers in North America (for $299 U.S.). That may seem expensive to people used to cheap PC-Soundblaster cards, but remember, cheap PC-Soundblaster cards are designed for games & home use and are generally considered trash by anyone doing professional audio work. Besides, soundblasters only have mini-1/4" inputs & no optical inputs (standard model. Professional audio cards for the PC generally sell for $300 or more, making the REPULSE price quite reasonable.
REPULSE soundcard still alive and kicking. : Comment 2 of 16ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 08-Mar-2001 23:00 GMT
"real RCA and optical jacks which are required for serious audio work", eh?
So I suppose the SPDIF input and output on my SoundsBlaster are not good enough? Nahhhh.
REPULSE soundcard still alive and kicking. : Comment 3 of 16ANN.lu
Posted by Johnny Mann on 09-Mar-2001 23:00 GMT
"So I suppose the SPDIF input and output on my SoundsBlaster are not good enough? Nahhhh."
Actually, no. It's OK for high-end home use where you're dealing with 16 bit resolution and 44.1-48KHz sampling rates.
For professional audio production we're in the 96KHz/24 bit and above range offered by the range of stuff from Echo, Digital Audio Labs, or even Digigram. Anything less wouldn't properly mix into the standard 44.1K/16 bit resolution CD without some signal degradation or weird artifacts. Remember, the going philosophy for recording and mixing in the digital domain is record and mix at twice the highest final output frequency. For example: For normal human hearing in the 0-22.5KHz frequency, you would record at a 44.1KHz sampling rate.
REPULSE soundcard still alive and kicking. : Comment 4 of 16ANN.lu
Posted by I hate Idiots on 09-Mar-2001 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Anonymous):
You stupid jerk..... Get a clue before you open your stupid mouth!!!!
REPULSE soundcard still alive and kicking. : Comment 5 of 16ANN.lu
Posted by Brent Santin on 09-Mar-2001 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Anonymous):
Yes, having an SPDIF jack is really useful, but as I said in my original post: Standard STOCK Soundblasters (the $35 model) do not come with SPDIF inputs, only the mini 1/8th inch analogue jack. If you want the SPDIF option, you have to buy a more expensive Soundblaster model or buy the optional optical jack plate. The other bad thing about a Soundblaster is the quality of the D/A and A/D converters, which are not considered to be on par with their professional audio counterparts. Of course, this doesn't matter if you are tranferring from a digital source, but many professional musicians, recording people, etc. have to transfer from analogue tape, or other sources, and so the quality of the A/D converters are important.
REPULSE soundcard still alive and kicking. : Comment 6 of 16ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 09-Mar-2001 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (Johnny Mann):
That's funny, because their own web page clearly stated 18-bit recording, not 24 bit.
Sorry mate!
(Yes, they mention a 96kHz 24-bit SPDIF *OUT* but only 18 bits recording).
REPULSE soundcard still alive and kicking. : Comment 7 of 16ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 09-Mar-2001 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (I hate Idiots):
Oh don't be so harsh on yourself. It's not your fault you post woithout researching the basic facts first.
REPULSE soundcard still alive and kicking. : Comment 8 of 16ANN.lu
Posted by Johan Rönnblom on 09-Mar-2001 23:00 GMT
Obviously mediator will be tough competition, but the repulse seems
nice. As far as I know, Mediator for Zorro ports is not available yet
(either)? Since I already have network and graphics cards, a Mediator
combo would probably turn out more expensive for me, and especially if
I want a quality soundcard. Also, I have more trust in a card that is
made especially for Amiga. So for me, the Repulse seems like the
better option. If I was expanding a clean A3k/A4k, I would consider
the Mediator option.
REPULSE soundcard still alive and kicking. : Comment 9 of 16ANN.lu
Posted by David Shipman on 11-Mar-2001 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (Brent Santin):
I have several Soundblaster Live's which sell for around $60 US, they have 2 sets of digital ins and outs, the more expensive SBLive cards (Platinum, or whatever they're calling them now) don't offer anything more than a couple of plugs for the inputs and outputs that are already sitting on the (value) card.
What I find disturbing about the Repulse is there is mention of 18bit, 20, 24... 96khz... however all of these are vague mentions of 'supported', no real informtion as to what resolution things are working at internally in the digital signal path of the card (or of the ADC on the analogue inputs)
REPULSE soundcard still alive and kicking. : Comment 10 of 16ANN.lu
Posted by David Shipman on 11-Mar-2001 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (I hate Idiots):
erm, sorry, do you actually own an SBLive? Are you even vaguely involved in the professional audio field (or the audio field at all?)
The SBLive is not 'the greatest card in the world'... its made cheap to sell cheap, but there is nothing in the world that comes even close to offering the value for money in terms of sheer usefulness that this card offers. If you pay twice as much, sure, I very much hope you will be getting something better for your money, but bashing the cheapest card because its not also the 'best' just doesn't make sense...
REPULSE soundcard still alive and kicking. : Comment 11 of 16ANN.lu
Posted by Matthew DeSantis on 11-Mar-2001 23:00 GMT
You cannot do professional (studio) recording with any soundblaster. Too much noise. I'd assume that you can't do professional (studio) recording with REPULSE, either. Not sure, can't test yet, no card! "CD-quality," khz-specs, and I/O mean nothing if the card's noisy. I'm sure either of these cards can do fine for basic sampling, audio conversion, and the like, but I'd never put one in a studio. Try a Korg, Roland, or MOTU card for PCI.
REPULSE soundcard still alive and kicking. : Comment 12 of 16ANN.lu
Posted by Marco Ridoni on 11-Mar-2001 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (Matthew DeSantis):
Yes, you're right. And BTW. The SB Platinum has something more than a couple of connections added: the whole I/O section is moved onto a separate board (to be presumably installed in a 5-1/4 rack in your PC or out of it) to avoid noise. This is the approch followed (even if to a different extent and obviously with a far different price) by all the professionally designed solutions (DigiDesign, etc.), where you have A/D converters in a separate unit. The SB Platinum is great for its price, but simply cannot be compared to professional hardware. In professional circles you pay for sound quality, not for features (the standard version of ProTools that was around a few years ago had just a few features if compared to other packages but the quality of the final mixing was astonishing)
REPULSE soundcard still alive and kicking. : Comment 13 of 16ANN.lu
Posted by Brent Santin on 11-Mar-2001 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (David Shipman):
I agree, the (entry-level) soundblaster IS very good for the money, and good for home use, and amateur music, but it is not professional studio grade. It's too noisy for professional audio (just type "NOISE" or "INTERFERENCE" and "SOUNDBLASTER" into any usenet search engine and you will see real proof of this). It's a great product and good value as an entry level sound-card. Just as home camcorders are good products for people shooting home videos, while high-end betacam or DV-cam (not miniDV) are good for people doing professional video work. Occassionally there is cross-over, but most of the time you won't find a Soundblaster being used in a pro-studio. Yes, if I had no alternative I probably would resort to using a Soundblaster in a recording, and it might even do an acceptable job, but as long as I have the alternative, I would not. In my experience, Soundblaster cards have been problematic. Perhaps the REPULSE won't in reality turn out to be truly professional, either, but the inclusion of RCA inputs and SPDIF optical inputs is at least encouraging. In answer to your questions about my suitability to comment on this issue: a) I have used the soundblaster. b) I do work in the music industry as a paid musician. c) I have recorded on commercial CD's and assisted in professional studio work.
All that said, I do not claim that my opinion is the final one, it's soley the opinion of one person, myself, based on what I've learned, and I have often been wrong too.....
REPULSE soundcard still alive and kicking. : Comment 14 of 16ANN.lu
Posted by Stuart on 11-Mar-2001 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (Marco Ridoni):
Pulsar is a card that is a good example of how well thought out design can
make onboard AD/DA converters very clean and quiet. Mind you this card
costs $$$ and the main IO is via optical ADAT anyway :)
REPULSE soundcard still alive and kicking. : Comment 15 of 16ANN.lu
Posted by David Shipman on 12-Mar-2001 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (Matthew DeSantis):
Time and time again I see people saying things about 'noise' levels... now, in terms of analogue i/o, I agree the SBlive is pretty poor (although a damn sight better than any previous soundblaster efforts), but this just isn't relevant. Digital is digital... bit for bit, what you get is, well, the same... noise isn't an issue here. I know of some people having problems with digital recording on their sblives, but using proper drivers (not the Creative ones that come with the card (these guys REALLY suck at software)) its one for one.
Now, that being said, do I want to see real professional audio cards with quality analogue IO on the Amiga? Of course, theres no reason not to want that, it bothers me that Emu101k is the only supported chipset in AmigaDE, but since there are no announced audio apps whatsoever, I don't think I'll be bothering about using it for audio work anyway... shame really, since Be have dropped out of the desktop OS market there is room for a good audio system.
REPULSE soundcard still alive and kicking. : Comment 16 of 16ANN.lu
Posted by Matt DeSantis on 12-Mar-2001 23:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (David Shipman):
Digital is Digital.... means nothing. The digital audio must pass through D/A converter to get to your speakers. And through A/D converters for audio in. D/A converters are noisy on cheap audio cards; they're not designed for the studio or professional recordings. Perhaps they sound great on PC desktop speakers, but if you have any bit of an ear, you'll hear how crap it is on an expensive audio system. Poor audio encoded digitally is still poor audio. Why not just scrap the SB and get optical or SPDIF card to bring your audio to hard disk?
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