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[News] AmigaOS 4.0 PPC will come !!!ANN.lu
Posted on 01-Apr-2001 06:43 GMT by Christophe Decanini29 comments
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From the shoucast audio stream (right now) AmigaDE won't have MP soon. AmigaOS 4.0 will and AmigaDE will use it. 68K will run on emulation. TCPIP PPC native, video drivers Natice: All the system PPC native. It will be developed by haage & partner and Hyperion. Amigaone will be opendesign (drivers). The timeline is by summer time. You need Amigaone for AmigaOS 4.0. USB and firewire will be in AmigaOS 4.2. No Java in AmigaOS 4.0. AmigaOne will ship this summer. First versions won't surpport multiprocessor. AmigaDE Targeted late summer. This is what I understood. There can be some misunderstandings. The are a lot of questions left. The MP subject is not clear, there will be a gradual transition (4, 4.2 ... 5.0). More info will be available on the Amiga website soon. So 1rst AmigaOS 3.9 will benefits from the AmigaOne hardware, then AmigaOS 4.0 will run stand alone on the AmigaOne and then Amiga De will run on top of it.
AmigaOS 4.0 PPC will come !!! : Comment 1 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by redrumloa (208.61.41.54) on 31-Mar-2001 22:00 GMT
This is good news. A bit surprising. If the Amigaone MBs are sold atx compatable at a reasonable price, and OS4.0 does the job right and on time.. I think just maybe the blood will stop pooring, and quite possibly we start seeing old amigans returning. And then maybe..gasp..new amigans? That would be nice!
AmigaOS 4.0 PPC will come !!! : Comment 2 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by fleecy moss (195.92.168.169) on 31-Mar-2001 22:00 GMT
I should point out that H&P and Hyperion are just two of the contractors being used, and that we are using quite a few others. I should also point out that a lot of the work is being done internally, by Amiga itself. This is represents Amiga taking back ownership and control of the AmigaOS as we develop it forwards to be a key part of our future technology solution.
Haage and Partner have done a good job of looking after it for us over the years, but as we move forwards, it will be brought back in house, allowing us to fully take on our responsibility as owner.
AmigaOS 4.0 PPC will come !!! : Comment 3 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by Fredrik Zetterlund (62.5.15.195) on 31-Mar-2001 22:00 GMT
This is all great, but, releasing this on April the 1st...
AmigaOS 4.0 PPC will come !!! : Comment 4 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous (193.237.227.186) on 31-Mar-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (fleecy moss):
Fleecy
PDA announcements are all very great but I have to say that AmigaDE needs to become a vital part of AMigaOS4 not just some module that allows you to develop
for the pervasive world.
Why?
Well, scaling. There is an unbridled opportunity to improve the VP model to work on plex based systems. If you did that then you would get in line for a few billion from at least one big corporate giant who is trying to shoe-horn Java onto the mainframe with little success as the JVM is such a poorly engineered pile of ****.
D.
AmigaOS 4.0 PPC will come !!! : Comment 5 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by Troels ersking (195.215.225.185) on 31-Mar-2001 22:00 GMT
I really don't know what to think about this. Its great that we will have "our own" OS3.9 updated, but on the other hand I don't see this potential grow (in the userbase) that AmigaDE promised. It also finally seems Amiga admits that AmigaDE is NOT a desktop OS.
Biggest problem is how the X86 platform is supported now?
Its 90% off all computers that are x86 based and that is what I liked so much about AmigaDE as a desktop OS/OE/DE. I really hoped we could grab a percent or two of the x86 market.
What I hope for now is that AmigaOS4.X will be based on AROS which should be easily portable from X86 to (for exaple) PPC. This would still allow people to take advantage of the cheap PC hardware, or the AmigaONE from eyetech if thats what they want. Offcourse a re-compile of programs would be needed if they should be available on both PPC & X86 platforms, but another option would be to built AmigaDE inside AmigaOS so some functions could be totally multi processor.
Lets see Haage & Partner, Hyperion and the AROS people, team up to make OS4.0!
AmigaOS 4.0 PPC will come !!! : Comment 6 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox (212.161.115.45) on 31-Mar-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (fleecy moss):
My first reaction is that this is very good news.
fleecy said we would be happy, and personally I am. An AmigaOS with
MP, evolved from OS3.9, should be both faster and more usable than Mac
OS X.
There is still a long haul before Amiga gets back to where it should
be in the market (around 10% of desktop computers would do nicely).
Better documentation should be a top priority for OS 4 and beyond,
IMO. PDF files could be prepared in PageStream and printed in small
quantities on a Xerox Docutech system, to avoid having stacks of
out-of-date books in stock.
AmigaOS 4.0 PPC will come !!! : Comment 7 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by Martin Baute (62.227.44.57) on 31-Mar-2001 22:00 GMT
Not to spoil your enthusiasm, but it was also said that OS 4.0 PPC will *NOT* run on existing PPC boards, only on AmigaOne hardware.
AmigaOS 4.0 PPC will come !!! : Comment 8 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous (213.224.83.134) on 31-Mar-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (Martin Baute):
The first version won't run on current PPC hardware but there are no overriding reasons why it wouldn't.
AmigaOS 4.0 PPC will come !!! : Comment 9 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by fleecy moss (195.92.168.168) on 31-Mar-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (Anonymous):
AmigaDE will become an integral part of the AmigaOS, far more than just
a plug in module.
I should also point out that the initial report here says Memory Protection will be in OS4 - it will not, it will be in OS5 - anyone who has followed the debates over MP will know that it isn't just something that can be added willy nilly. The report is probably meant to mean VM (Virtual Memory) which will be in
OS4. VM is essential as we move forwards, and with the new AmigaOne hardware, we can finally make proper use of it. VM will be available for new applications that are aware of it.
AmigaOS 4.0 PPC will come !!! : Comment 10 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by Rik Sweeney (62.7.109.38) on 31-Mar-2001 22:00 GMT
This is very good news. The only problem is that it has put me off upgrading from 3.5 to 3.9 even though the BB1 looks very attractive.
AmigaOS 4.0 PPC will come !!! : Comment 11 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by fleecy moss (195.92.168.168) on 31-Mar-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (Troels ersking):
>I really don't know what to think about this. Its great that we will have "our >own" OS3.9 updated, but on the other hand I don't see this potential grow (in >the userbase) that AmigaDE promised. It also finally seems Amiga admits that >AmigaDE is NOT a desktop OS.
Hey Troels 8-)
The AmigaDE is a content environment - it will appear everywhere that people
want to produce and consume content, and it provides a universal environment in which that can occur, cell phones, PDAs (our sharp deal is a long term deal so whilst this is only for one announced PDA, the deal doesn't just cover that), STBs, consoles and on desktops, workstations and servers.
One of the problems that has become apparent is that the majority of the world will stick with Windows, and isn't looking to have to install and learn a whole new system. The AmigaDE at this level should thus be looked at as a value add to other systems, whether they be Linux, Windows, Mac, AmigaOS or whatever. It will integrate tightly with whatever software host it finds and provide an
Amiga Content Environment.
We lay our product in other product's nests 8-)
>Biggest problem is how the X86 platform is supported now?
>Its 90% off all computers that are x86 based and that is what I liked so much >about AmigaDE as a desktop OS/OE/DE. I really hoped we could grab a percent or >two of the x86 market.
>What I hope for now is that AmigaOS4.X will be based on AROS which should be >easily portable from X86 to (for exaple) PPC. This would still allow people to >take advantage of the cheap PC hardware, or the AmigaONE from eyetech if thats >what they want. Offcourse a re-compile of programs would be needed if they >should be available on both PPC & X86 platforms, but another option would be >to built AmigaDE inside AmigaOS so some functions could be totally multi >processor.
The point of AmigaOS4 is that we Amiga needs a complete solution, and the home
server is an essential part of that - home server sales are predicted to go through the roof in the next few years, and there is no solution out there that can offer what is required - kernel level QoS, multipath multiprotocol delivery - that is where the AmigaOS is going with AmigaOS5. With the AmigaDE highly integrated, those who want an Amiga desktop can have one but it in no way restricts us from taking advantage of other platforms, products and opportunities.
The future is the content market - phones, digital assistants etc - the home server will expand that by making the webpad concept that has failed so spectacularly suddenly have the backbone it needs to succeed. Those who think we are off on a mission to replace Windows are greatly mistaken - the AmigaOS
can become another platform and will have the functionality, both native and via
the AmigaDE to provide that, but that is upto users and developers who chose to work in that direction. In doing so, they will limit themselves to the AmigaOS whereas the AmigaDE will be everywhere, but we will support and push the AmigaOS
into its new markets as well.
AmigaOS 4.0 PPC will come !!! : Comment 12 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by fleecy moss (195.92.168.168) on 31-Mar-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (Martin Baute):
You are correct Martin. AmigaOS4 will only run on hardware that conforms
to the zico specification. We have had to draw the line somewhere as we move forwards and this is it.
The AmigaOne from both Eyetech and bPlan offer state of the art, no compromise, clean implementations of the most modern hardware and will be competitive with any product out there.
We are also talking to other Amiga hardware companies to see about them evolving their designs to gain zico compliance.
AmigaOS 4.0 PPC will come !!! : Comment 13 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by fleecy moss (195.92.168.168) on 31-Mar-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (Rik Sweeney):
We are looking at offering a rebate to those who supported a continued development of AmigaOS by purchasing OS3.9, so please don't be put off.
AmigaOS 4.0 PPC will come !!! : Comment 14 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by Rik Sweeney (213.122.184.84) on 31-Mar-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (fleecy moss):
That's good to know. Now all I need is a job to pay for my new hardware and software.
AmigaOS 4.0 PPC will come !!! : Comment 15 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by Sam Smith (172.144.45.67) on 31-Mar-2001 22:00 GMT
This is a superb - ingenious plan. In one fell swoop the Amiga is given a unified upgrade strategy transitioning from 3.9 through to 5.0 while keeping Amiga DE firmly in the picture. I think that Fleecy's replies to some of the comments here show evidence of a strategy that has been given a great deal of thought, which only adds to my confidence.
This news has changed my 'buy' status on the AmigaOne from 'maybe' to 'defiantly'. All of this AND the announcement with Sharp. This is no false dawn - Amiga is back - it has a plan and a product and I'm still proud to be an Amigan! - Always!
All of this AND the announcement with Sharp - Whohoo! It's Christmas early! :)))
AmigaOS 4.0 PPC will come !!! : Comment 16 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous (213.64.176.142) on 31-Mar-2001 22:00 GMT
Amiga Inc seems to have forgotten a major part of what could have been their future userbase. Amigans who own top-notch x86 systems and was waiting for a good fast and simple OS to come along (AmigaDE).
Now they will have to buy AmigaOne PPC computer to be able to run the new OS. Count me out because by the time OS4.0 ships x86 will have broken the 2Ghz (if not 3) barrier and PPC will be stuck at sub 1Ghz. Not to mention if they had based it on x86 we could have gotten WINE onto it and that could have helped them to convert a lot of windows-only users.
PPCdead end because they will never overcome x86 in speed and popularity no matter how nice the underlying technology is. I don't like intel or x86, i hate them. But if i have to choose between a PPC 850Mhz and a AMD T-bird 1.5GHz i know what i would choose.
AmigaOS 4.0 PPC will come !!! : Comment 17 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by Ralph (61.200.33.146) on 31-Mar-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (Anonymous):
So you are so infected of the wintel view that you automatically set a higher
clock equal to a higher performance, eh? Surely x86 is widely spread and has a
big potential of future Amiga customers to offer, but that is not the only way
one could go. I don't like being a lemming and as long as the price/performance
ratio fits my needs (and in the best case is better than another combination) i
do not care one single bit about the differences in clock speed!
My 68060 Amiga runs with 50 (!) MHz and still in many ways feels (even IS) faster
than a "modern" PC with more than 10 times the CPU speed...
AmigaOS 4.0 PPC will come !!! : Comment 18 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous (195.72.207.232) on 31-Mar-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (fleecy moss):
: In doing so, they will limit themselves to the AmigaOS whereas
: the AmigaDE will be everywhere, but we will support and push
: the AmigaOS into its new markets as well.
Hey Fleecy,
thanks for the great (and unexpected) news :-)
Just one question: don't you think that once the PPC port of AmigaOS
is done (thus having an HLL code base, no more legacy hardware
dependency, etc.), it wouldn't be too hard to also do a x86 port?
This could only further increase your potential market. Or not? :)
Well, I'm sure you've already considered this, but I had to ask...
AmigaOS 4.0 PPC will come !!! : Comment 19 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by Marco Ridoni (62.11.120.217) on 31-Mar-2001 22:00 GMT
Certainly all of this sounds as good news, but still I feel a bit uncomfortable with it. I mean: for several months we were promised a new environment, with "compile once/run everywhere" capabilities; now it comes out that it will "only" be a layer on other OS's , including a new and improved AmigaOS. Ok, fine, I know that the future belongs to PDA's (in the literal sense of the term, not in the sense of a Palm or a PocketPC or whatever), that all our houses will be strangled with cables running from the DVD to the fridge to a personal holodeck and that the DE environment is the right answer to a more mature digital world. The problem is that, IMHO, we're falling back to a niche made of incompatible and pricey hardware. I don't want to discuss if a G4 is superior or inferior to a PIV; it's a false problem (BTW both of them have enough CPU power to cover everyone's average - or not even so average - computing needs); the fact is that the days of custom hardware are over for good. Apple can continue to sell its G4s because they estabilished a loyal userbase (mostly in a niche market like DTP and multimedia production) early on.
Also Amiga has a loyal userbase, but it's shrinking every day more and more and simply I fail to see how a new Amiga custom hardware can attract new users.
Marco
AmigaOS 4.0 PPC will come !!! : Comment 20 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by redrumloa (208.61.41.54) on 31-Mar-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (Anonymous):
You are kidding right? PPC chips hit a road block last year, but that has been overcome and 1ghz chips are near. Besides igonore P4 so called clock speeds, p4 blows bull nuts. So the fastest x86 is Athlon 1.33ghz, and the fastest G4 is what now? 750? That will come closer to athlon chips soon. But once again, you must ignore simply the clock speed. A 900mhz Athlon is faster in most situations than a 1.5ghz P4, what does that tell you? I forget the stats, but I remember reading that PPC chips fare even better. Actually anything arround 1ghz or up is insane anyways! Most users with a 1Ghz+ CPU never use that power. CPUs are so fast nowadys that even the highest end games a 800mhz cpu is all that's needed, the gfx card becomes the bottleneck..Yes even a geforce2 Ultra is the bottleneck.
So I hope you are joking, I mean yeesh, you running a render farm or something?
Regaards,
Jim
AmigaOS 4.0 PPC will come !!! : Comment 21 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by Takemehomegrandma (213.141.65.200) on 31-Mar-2001 22:00 GMT
Sorry to hear that the Amiga OS 4 only will be PPC native. Wouldn't it be better if it was all VP native? I mean, now when the whole OS is going to be ported to a different processor than the old 68k (must be a giant effort), why limit the OS to ONE processor family, when it virtually could target every processor family out there?
It can't be more difficult to port the OS to VP than to PPC. Neither of them has any similarities to the 68k, so the difficulties ought to be just the same for both of them, right?
AmigaOS 4.0 PPC will come !!! : Comment 22 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by Martin Baute (62.227.45.127) on 31-Mar-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (redrumloa):
All this "G4 offers more per-MHz-power than x86" stuff is pretty meaningless IMHO.
I buy a PPC system, Amiga Inc. doesnīt survive, what do I have? Dead hardware, because I am not interested in Linux PPC or Mac OS (the latter wonīt run on the Amiga One probably).
I buy a x86 system, Amiga Inc. doesnīt survive, what do I have? A hardware I can use for Windows, Linux, QNX, BeOS, AROS, whatever, or sell it to some other guy. (Try selling an Amiga One.)
I buy any system, Amiga Inc. makes it big time, so who cares which HW it is based on?
And besides, most of you talking "G4 is better than x86" donīt have either yet. I *have* a x86 notebook, state-of-the-art, and I thought Iīd do a smooth transit from SDK 1 to SDK 2 to AmigaDE hosted to AmigaDE native.
Now, if I want to develop desktop apps for the (far) future AmigaDE, I have to buy another system for a price point thatīd get me a state-of-the-art x86 tower system.
Nope, sorry. Iīm out of the Amiga sector until AmigaDE for Desktops arrives.
AmigaOS 4.0 PPC will come !!! : Comment 23 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by Kay Are Ulvestad (129.241.129.203) on 31-Mar-2001 22:00 GMT
Well, this is all great news, and it makes my upgrade path more than a little
bit clearer. Nice one Amiga :-)
-
Kay
AmigaOS 4.0 PPC will come !!! : Comment 24 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by Tony Gore (216.76.152.33) on 31-Mar-2001 22:00 GMT
Well, this all sounds great to me. I do hope that it is _well_ underway and not another year or two away from market. I am a bit disappointed about the x86 native thing too. Just upgraded the PC to 1GHz in hopes that I could use this hardware for running the DE when available native. Guess that won't happen. But hey, if we are finally getting PPC native AmigaOS, then it will be just as good. It is a more logical path (although it should have come along a couple of years ago already) but maybe it will help to grow the Amiga market once again. It would be great to have a local Amiga store again.
Everyone thinks that people will not come back to Amiga because there is no new hardware being made, but AmigaOS PPC will give third parties reason to build the hardware. Let's not forget, the last time hardware was being built, it was made by one sole company. Now, anyone who wants can follow the specs and build Amiga compatible systems! Am I right Fleecy? The Apple Clones were a big success, and would have only grown bigger (IMHO) if the rights to build them had not been taken away.
AmigaOS 4.0 PPC will come !!! : Comment 25 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Toner (24.182.153.137) on 31-Mar-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (Martin Baute):
> I buy a PPC system, Amiga Inc. doesnīt survive, what do I have? Dead hardware,
> because I am not interested in Linux PPC or Mac OS (the latter wonīt run on the
> Amiga One probably).
>
> I buy a x86 system, Amiga Inc. doesnīt survive, what do I have? A hardware I
> can use for Windows, Linux, QNX, BeOS, AROS, whatever, or sell it to some
> other guy. (Try selling an Amiga One.)
So, how is this any different than the last 9 years?
Personally I'm very very happy with this. I can choose which PPC chip I want via
the ZIF/carrier slot. Current high-end PPC chips can actually compete with current high-end
x86 chips in terms of what it's actually capable of (MIPS and MHz aren't particularly meaningful)
Altivec is much better implemented than any MMX/SIMD crap in Intel land.
So you can't do Windows, so what? I see that as an attractive feature...
AmigaOS 4.0 PPC will come !!! : Comment 26 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous (213.64.176.142) on 31-Mar-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to a lot of comments:
I'm quite aware that the same clockspeed on different CPU's does not matter, but the simple fact is PPC will NEVER catch up in the raw bruteforce speed of a x86 cpu.
AmigaOS 4.0 PPC will come !!! : Comment 27 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by Mee (192.12.78.2) on 01-Apr-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (redrumloa):
Uhh, ok Dr. Tom.
Pst, get a clue dude. Motorola is still having major, major problems. A lot of the 700+ PPC's are failing, why not check some of the Mac boards and edumacate yourself.
Not to mention the higher expense of the PPC, but its pretty interesting. Go do us a favor and find theprice of a PPC 750 eh?
For that price, one can easily get a 1000 Mhz TBird and top rated mobo, actually less.
The PIV is a dog at this time, but AMD is killing Intel on the P3/Celeron market.
And, AMD's versions are much better than Intel's P3, at integerand fp.
The -only- place where PPC wins to any extent over P3/AMD is in Photoshop filters. This has been discussed ad nauseum.
Face it people.
Amiga is once again, a "Proprietary Hardware' system.
Isn't this what most of you loons have been screaming about for thepast 6-8 months as causing the downfall of Amiga in the first place?
Damn, they say people get the governemnt they deserve.
That holds true for Amigan's and their computers.
AmigaOS 4.0 PPC will come !!! : Comment 28 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by Francisco (192.187.17.130) on 01-Apr-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 27 (Mee):
hey, hey, hey
i think that people are a bit confusing;
The AmigaOS4.x is a classis amiga OS so then not have to run on X86 only on
amiga hardware(well AmigaONEPPC in this case); the path for classisc is for PPC.
is only another OS on which the AmigaDE will run.
If you like Amiga on your X86 then you choose AmigaDE.
I think that in the middle future the AmigaOS and AmigaDE will merge in one only
OS so finnally you can run AmigaOS classic on any harware native
well, if i am wrong then that anybody correct me
AmigaOS 4.0 PPC will come !!! : Comment 29 of 29ANN.lu
Posted by Svein K. (148.122.66.36) on 01-Apr-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (fleecy moss):
OK, I must admit I'm still a little bit confused over what this all means; First of all, the AmigaOS will only run on an AmigaOne board that follows the zico specification - which now is redefined to only include the PPC processor?
The AmigaDE will still be able to run hosted on various OSes, but what will be the difference between running AmigaDE hosted on Windows and the AmigaOS/AmigaDE combination? Does the latter offer any advantages? If so, what will people using AmigaDE hosted on another OS miss?
Oh, and what would happen if it turns out that the rest of the world is getting ready to switch from Windows to something else/better now, if only they get the chance? (*Sigh* I know, it looks _very_ hypothetical, but still... What if? ;-)
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