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[News] Explanations from Fleecy, part 3ANN.lu
Posted on 01-Apr-2001 13:11 GMT by Christian Kemp63 comments
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Fleecy writes: AmigaOS4.0 will be launched in the summer, with 4.2 and 4.5 coming out at six month intervals. OS5 will be late next year.

He adds: People have buried the Amiga more times than squirrels bury acorns, and you know what, it keeps on growing back. Beware the naysayers, for they have their own agendas.

In reply to a quote which says Ralph Schimdt (MorphOS) says there Amiga Inc has a lot of illusions...BPlan won`t run AmigaOS4...it will run MorphOS, he answers: Amiga Inc has an agreement with bPlan to build an AmigaOne. AmigaOne computers run Amiga Inc software. Whatever else is run on it is nothing to do with us, unless it infringes our copyrights or IP.

Finally, he says: I have spent hours a day trying to bring all the Amiga developers together but it seems there is just too much hatred. In the end there can only be one AmigaOS, and one Amiga Inc company moving it forwards. Amiga has retaken control, is working directly with many contractors and looks forwards to all working with us to make a better Amiga in the future..

Explanations from Fleecy, part 3 : Comment 51 of 63ANN.lu
Posted by Graham on 01-Apr-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 50 (Ralph Schmidt):
Please, Ralph.
Don't get worked up about things. Try to sell your product, don't denigrate the competitions product. Always point out the good things in your product, not the bad things in other people products.
I am sure that MorphOS is good. It has most likely been programmed by people who want to create a good OS, not by people who want to become millionaires. This is a good thing. However, you have to be realistic about what you are doing sometimes. What is MorphOS's future now?
Amiga Inc. would welcome you if you said "Yes, we will help you in certain areas, we would be willing to do X and Y for you". The WarpUp vs. PowerUp issues should be dead and buried - look on them as experience. Look at WarpUp and compare it to your MorphOS base that you have. What are the good points? What are the bad points. How can you make it better for the Amiga community as a whole?
Amiga have responsibilities towards their licenses they have for the Amiga patents from Gateway, and to their users, etc. They want to break free from the old Amiga systems in a clean way - with a compatible OS that requires new hardware and recompilations of software, etc. You can target the old users, the old hardware etc with MorphOS.
Maybe you could create a MorphOS library for AmigaOS 4? That would mean that MorphOS applications would run on AOS4, like unix apps run with ixemul and linux apps run on freebsd etc. Maybe you could write an amigaos4.library for MorphOS to do the opposite?
As I, and other people have said, meet the Amiga, H&P, Hyperion people and go down the pub with them, don't talk about Amigas, but football or politics or stuff, and see how you like them as people. It would be interesting. I think you will find that they are like you - they want the best thing for the Amiga as well, their vision of how to do this differs from you though.
Not much chance though is there? Shame.
Explanations from Fleecy, part 3 : Comment 52 of 63ANN.lu
Posted by Darrin on 01-Apr-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 50 (Ralph Schmidt):
Dear Ralph,
That is a truly commendable attitude and I applaud you for that. However, as my time in the military taught me, people don't always want the truth and just want to be warm and cozy. Look at politics in general - we would all be horrified (no matter what county you live in) if you understood just a small fraction of the "underhanded" tactics our governments perform "in our best interests" - and they really are in our best interests, but are normally so dirty that we'd lose sleep at night if we knew they went on.
Amiga Inc are this community's "elected government". We didn't all vote for them, but then George Bush is the US President and the majority of Americans didn't vote for him either! We are in a time of national crisis - our backs are against the wall, forces of darkness prepare to swallow us up and cracks have appeared in our limited defenses that threaten the existence of all of us. Think back to the Battle of Britain when the Commonwealth stood alone against the overwhelming Nazi (insert Micro$haft) war machine (No "you're anti-German" flaming here please - I lived in Germany for 6 and a half years and I regard it and it's people as my second home). The time is to put all differences behind us and united behind our government in order to remain strong and win the war.
OK, this has been a colourful letter, but I hope everyone can read into what I'm trying to say. Right and wrong have a major overlap, which can form a massive "gray" area. Tactics in warfare might be all-wrong and defy logic, but they can be made to work with the right leadership, a firm hand and a sense of direction. I can't comment personally on Amiga Inc's leadership, but they are attempting the "firm hand" and they have given us the direction. Whether this turns out to be the Charge of the Light Brigade or Desert Storm is down to us. United we stand, divided we fall. And as Italy proved many times during WW2, it's never too late to switch sides (no offense to Italians either - I loved Venice).
Regards again,
Daz
Explanations from Fleecy, part 3 : Comment 53 of 63ANN.lu
Posted by Andy on 01-Apr-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 50 (Ralph Schmidt):
Darrin...i fully understood.
>So you prefer somebody who fools you instead of
>hearing the real deal to feel warm and comfortable ?
>I can fully understand that i'm plain annoying by
>saying things people don't wanna hear because they
>hurt their view of the world.
>It's always easier to shoot at the messenger when
>you don't like the content of the message.
It's not about not about not liking what you hear, it's about you acting like a civil human being. You still haven't responded to what I said about putting people off morphOS. You may say, well, it's only one person why should I care? but if you carry on like that you'll never get anywhere.
It's a shame, morphOS looked like a nice solution. It isn't hard to see that you and others have worked hard on it. But it is all for nothing you you abuse the people you are offering it to.
>I'm probably a horrible salesman but I prefer to be
>straight to the point in my life if possible.
>And i think others should too
It isn't being blunt that is your problem, it is your attitude to other people, you treat them like scum. Why? Do you really enjoy upsetting people?
MorphOS wasn't mentioned at St Louis, I've asked people who were there. It was you who started this whole thing. If you had just kept quiet for a bit instead of flying accusations here ther and everywhere, maybe you could have presented your arguments calmly to the community, and perhaps they would have responded better.
You are your own worst enemy, your reaction is like that of a spoilt child, crying becuase someone else has everyone's attention. If MorphOS really is as good as you said it is, then surely you'd let you product speak for itself.
You could have handled this so much better then you have.
--Andy
Explanations from Fleecy, part 3 : Comment 54 of 63ANN.lu
Posted by A3K on 01-Apr-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 48 (Ralph Schmidt):
We had a great discussion about pricing, but the pricing discussion is not the one that I am talking about. We had another chat that spun off of the pricing issue in which you point blank stated to me that you didn't care what the consumer thought, and you had no interest in putting on a retail face in order to sell product. This was not in reference to pricing, but in reference to selling.
The reason it pissed me off was not that I was angry at you, but I was angry at the reprecussions of that approach. We have seen the outpouring of anger towards you in numerous forums that is without a doubt going to have a negative effect on the success of MorphOS.
Being a retail professional, it really bothered me. Manufacturers and vendors have to at least give the appearance of wanting you business, and caring for your needs.
The bottom line of what bothered me is this: For years we have had companies sugarcoat product presentation only to deliver nothing. Ralph, you have pissed people off at you, and driven people away from MorphOS, when you have a real (and by most accounts GOOD) product. That is what pisses me off.
I am not saying that you should sugar coat it, by all means let the product stand on its own merit, but a little bit better PR would do wonders.
Suffer the fools occasionally, and don't choose sides in fights that aren't yours. The Amiga market is too small for it.
You are a heck of a programmer. If I had 1/2 the coding ability of you I would definately be in a different line of work, but with a project like MorphOS and a small community like we have, you have to be a bit salesman too. You cannot afford to anger one single customer. For every one person that gets noticably angry at something you say, there are 10 more who did, but weren't noticed.
My apologies for any misunderstanding of intent.
Explanations from Fleecy, part 3 : Comment 55 of 63ANN.lu
Posted by Amifan on 01-Apr-2001 22:00 GMT
Hey Ralph
Well, i'm not in the position to comment here, because I have sounded like a terrible person too here on ANN (But in fact i'm a nice guy, really :) )......
But just look at this comment on IRC of yours, about the "shaking hands with Jurgen Haage at WOA2k affair"
This responce was totally childish....
But then again, i'm not in the position....but just think about it.
Explanations from Fleecy, part 3 : Comment 56 of 63ANN.lu
Posted by Ralph Schmidt on 01-Apr-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 54 (A3K):
Sorry but i can't remember what you talk here about and that
is meant serious.
Explanations from Fleecy, part 3 : Comment 57 of 63ANN.lu
Posted by Ralph Schmidt on 01-Apr-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 55 (Amifan):
That was a comment on a channel which is not meant to be logged
but the chatbox in the amiga market Sinan Gurkan probably thought
about the hilarious happening and had to publish it *unasked*.
Explanations from Fleecy, part 3 : Comment 58 of 63ANN.lu
Posted by Emmanuel Lesueur on 01-Apr-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 52 (Darrin):
"D" == "Darrin" writes:
D> However, as my time in the military taught me, people don't always
D> want the truth and just want to be warm and cozy.
And you think that's a good thing ?
D> Look at politics in general
D> - we would all be horrified (no matter what county you live in) if
D> you understood just a small fraction of the "underhanded" tactics our
D> governments perform "in our best interests" - and they really are in
D> our best interests, but are normally so dirty that we'd lose sleep at
D> night if we knew they went on.
With this way of thinking, no wonder this world is so fucked up.
If something dirty is done, even if it is in *your* interest, it
is against the interest of some other people (otherwise it wouldn't
be dirty, would it?), and the fact that they aren't from *your*
country doesn't make it more acceptable. If it's so dirty that you'd
loose your sleep if you knew, then you must not let it happen,
period. This "I don't want to know" way of thinking makes me sick.
D> Amiga Inc are this community's "elected government".
No.
<snip stinking war analogy>
This "this is war we must stick with our leader" is total bullshit
too. War or no war, you should not stop *thinking* and blindly
follow your "leader" just because he is on the same side of a line
than you and the so-called bad guys are on the other.
D> leadership, a firm hand and a sense of direction. I can't comment
D> personally on Amiga Inc's leadership, but they are attempting the
D> "firm hand" and they have given us the direction.
Sigh. So you don't know a damn, but they're called "Amiga Inc",
so you simply follow. You definitely spent too much time in the
army.
Sorry, this post doesn't have much to do with Amiga, but I just can't
let such a huge amount of crap unanswered.
Explanations from Fleecy, part 3 : Comment 59 of 63ANN.lu
Posted by Darrin on 01-Apr-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 58 (Emmanuel Lesueur):
It people like you who left Albanians to be slaughtered in Kosovo. Keep hold of those rose-tinted glasses - you'll need them for when you grow up and move into the real world.
Explanations from Fleecy, part 3 : Comment 60 of 63ANN.lu
Posted by Darrin on 01-Apr-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 58 (Emmanuel Lesueur):
Ahhggghh!!! Why did I rise to this bait - you obviously didn't grasp what I was aiming at (cheers Andy, at least you did). English is obviously not your native tongue and "reading between the lines" is not easy for everyone.
Explanations from Fleecy, part 3 : Comment 61 of 63ANN.lu
Posted by Donovan Reeve on 02-Apr-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (Kevin):
Err... better NOT compare to Mac OS8. We HAD to upgrade 4 times
in 2 1/2 years as the graphics handling was changed with each
new release and with OS9 also (8.1, 8.5, 8.6, 9.0). It cost us
many thousands of dollers because each time we had to buy not
only the OS upgrad (for the price of over a hundred loaves of
bread), but a new version of PhotoShop and PageMaker at about
$500 U.S. a copy each time for each of our three Macs. And, it
cost us additional thousands of $ in man-hours to get the systems
all set up and finally working (many weeks and many patches later
for all the software concerned) before color matching would work
again with system 8.5.
We are spoiled on the Amiga. The cost of upgrades has been
tiny compared to other systems. And why is it that people gripe
and whine so much about upgrading their Amiga hardware when many
of the same people don't complain at all about having to buy a
whole new machine with all the trimmings every 2 years for windoze?
Where are the 1987 - 1992 wintels and Macs now? Is anybody still
useing them? I anybody even still using 1995 wintels? Very FEW.
So don't gripe about having to buy a whole new Amiga once a decade,
and upgrade it a few times. If a totally state-of-the-art Amiga
had come out any time in the last 6 or 8 years would any of the
whiners have bought it? Highly unlikely. They would have just
griped that it was to expensive (even if it was priced about the
same as a comparable or worse peecee) and wanted it for the price
of a hand-held calculator. (Well, yeah... I would like that too,
but let's be realistic. Manufacturers gotta live too.)
Fact. No matter who does it, it costs money to create an OS,
any other software, and hardware too. If we aren't willing to
pay for it, we WONT GET IT because all the manufacturers will
just move on to where they can make a living. Would'nt you?
cacha later,
Donovan Reeve (bubby@inebraska.com)
Explanations from Fleecy, part 3 : Comment 62 of 63ANN.lu
Posted by Donovan Reeve on 02-Apr-2001 22:00 GMT
Err...
I just want to move on to newer and better things. I don't
see anything to gain by fighting. (is there ever?)
And so, since Amiga Inc. seem to be the main ones interested
in moving on to newer and better things (and I don't consider
their need to control their own product as provocative) I support
Amiga Inc. Their plan over all sounds like it can work for the
long haul. The Amiga comunity doesn't need stop-gap measures,
we need long-term solutions. So let's just all pull together
despite our differences and make it go. They are the only ones
that have a plan that can generate them enough revenue to become
a major player in the market, thus enableing them (and the Amiga)
to survive. To be truthful, I the new Amiga Inc. hadn't come
along and started making sense just when they did, I would have
(finally) been forced to give up ever escaping the dull and
suffocating world that the other major players want to force us
into. So I don't begrudge Amiga Inc. the right to make a living
and even a huge profit (I hope) so they can make the kind of
stuff I want, which no other major OS developer is doing.
So I say... LONG LIVE AMIGA... and LONG LIVE AMIGA INC!
They are our best bet, imho.
cacha later,
Donovan Reeve (bubby@inebraska.com)
Explanations from Fleecy, part 3 : Comment 63 of 63ANN.lu
Posted by Rares Marian on 02-Apr-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 59 (Darrin):
Albanians are persecuting serbs now, what's your point?
This isn't a war. This dirty elongated overblown volley of unsuccessful
muggings.
I suggest anyone who thinks they can code just go ahead and do so. And then
license the rights to modify and distribute that code to weirdos who want to
synthesize products out of it. And then say, "Hey weirdo, do you want to be
my neighbor?"
Remember, you make money whether they succeed or fail.
Oh and keep in mind:
The most viable systems on the market:
Athlon boxes (dual mobos are available)
A1200 w/ PPC
A4000 (except for a maximum of 16MBs of RAM) w/ any chip you like.
A3000 w/ any chip you like.
G4 PowerMacs
Each of these has a software suite for doing Video, Animation, Music,
Wordprocessing, Desktop Publishing, Database work all those money
making enterprises.
They make money, they trust you. They trust you, you make money.
Repitan por favor:
"I like money, make money do I, we're one happy company."
Laterz,
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