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[News] More On The MorphOS - Amiga Inc talksANN.lu
Posted on 05-Apr-2001 00:47 GMT by Christian Kemp39 comments
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Andy Hall wrote: Amigart has a posting made by Ralph Schmidt on the MorphOS mailing list about the talks held between Amiga Inc. and the MorphOS team, in which he gives more information on the reasons that there was no co-operation.
Amiga Inc made us clear with their decisions in february that there
is no base for a cooperation for several reasons.

o technical. they presented a complete ridiculous plan for every
developer which read it.
o business
o and very important also amiga inc's future for exconomic and
technical sw management.
Some may call this arrogant but this isn't about me the "best" which
i'm not but with obnoxious decisions with amiga inc's management.
If they wanna use WarpOS as their base...fine..they get it for free
and H&P does everything for amiga inc's IP with pre financing.
But to suggest that we should integrate our modules which were
designed for morphos ABI/API/HAL enviroment into the warpos framework which
wasn't designed for this is well ridiculous and i don't even talk
about the political issues involved here which are far more
annoying.
It's like asking to run MacOS X drivers inside Linux PPC.

Amiga Inc decided in Febrary that they wanna depend on H&P and
Eyetech to deliver them a new OS base for their ""DE"".

P.S. We all wish the amiga market would be a happy place with an
united force but this is just not the case anymore since CBM
died. Everybody has its own interests and there is no mutual
cooperation possible where these interests collide expecially
when there is a lack of respect.
I'm speaking here openly about these issues...does anybody here
think amiga inc or hyperion&partner documents their opinions
and real happenings as openly. I don't think so.
Has anybody ever asked if perhaps H&P used the Predator HW
designer to design a HW for their enviroment so that they
have some politicial instrument at Amiga Inc. to avoid the
situation of Bplan/MorphOS with SW and HW and them having
nothing besides an older emulation.
H&P/Eyetech controlls the AmigaOne 1200 HW as we control
our HW. The other side used this instrument already last
year when our request was denied...and this has not happened
because Eyetech wouldn't have wanted it. They only care for
a HW they can sell."

Taken from MorphOS mailing-list
More On The MorphOS - Amiga Inc talks : Comment 1 of 39ANN.lu
Posted by Andy Hall on 04-Apr-2001 22:00 GMT
Ralph seems to explain himself better here than I've seen in any of his postings in ANN. He does go into his usual ramblings about conspiricies and the such.
The thing about the whole WarpOS thing (which I can see is the majority of the problem), why did they choose it? if it really is such a poor decision then why did they go for it? There must be something that you are missing out, and before you go into a h&P conspirisy hour, what they have to gain by doing a dodgy deal like that?
While I don't perticularly trust Bill M, I believe Fleecy when he says that he tried to get everyone working together.
Here is a challenge for you. Fight it!
If you really do care about the users that you are writing MorphOS for (us) and you truely believe that you can offer the best solution to Amiga Inc, then go for it. By saying Never mind, we'll continue with MorphOS as we were and we'll let the user decide, you are as good as giving up.
This will be the split that kills it ALL off, there won't be an OS4 or a MorphOS if we split into two.
Don't ask me why, I've not been an amiga user very long, but I care passionately about this. I want to see this ended, not as an AmigaOS (Hyperion, Amiga, H&P Eyetech) Vs. MorphOS (MorphOS, MUI, Vapor, and others) Split.
More On The MorphOS - Amiga Inc talks : Comment 2 of 39ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 04-Apr-2001 22:00 GMT
Correct me if I'm wrong but one of the reasons the Warp model was chosen was for the hardware independancy. Where PowerUP requires the infamous "ralph-rom" to work along with unused/undocumented registers hacked in by the ppc boards, the warp model does not. As an example, in the 3000D you must have the INT2 line connected otherwise it will not work properly due to interupt calls made in PowerUP. Without the INT2 line connected, you can run WarpOS and emulate the PowerUP libraries without any problems.
Perhaps not the exact reason why the warp model was chosen, but probably a pretty good summary nonetheless.
More On The MorphOS - Amiga Inc talks : Comment 3 of 39ANN.lu
Posted by Daniel Allsopp on 04-Apr-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Andy Hall):
> I want to see this ended, not as an AmigaOS (Hyperion, Amiga, H&P Eyetech) ? > Vs. MorphOS (MorphOS, MUI, Vapor, and others) Split.
MorphOS looks much nicer, from looking at this representation. MUI and Vapor products are the way coolest things on Amiga right now, and would actually make me swing towards MorphOS.
The main reasons I didn't (and won't) buy OS3.5 and OS3.9 is the horrible GUI (ReAction), lack of good features I can't get from Aminet and the fact I use Opus2 Magellan.
I would buy MorphOS if it came with all those Vapor products installed, Miami Deluxe as standard and MUI as the main GUI. And it looks like it will....GO MorphOS, screw Amiga Inc.!
More On The MorphOS - Amiga Inc talks : Comment 4 of 39ANN.lu
Posted by Alex Klauke on 04-Apr-2001 22:00 GMT
Well, I wonder whether the new AmigaOS4.0 libraries could be ported to MorphOs.
That way there could be OS4.0 compatibility on old P5 and such driven Amiga HW
and PPC Boards not matching AmigaOne specs (Mac?). Only technically speaking,
hmm, rather guessing, I am not too deep in ;-)
I do not care about personal differences. At last its all business.
But it would be an enormous waste to simply drop such efforts as MorphOs (and
Aros too) are. Those guys are truly Amigans and try to save the OS for a little
future. I have the highest respect to the people involved there.
But it appears this time, that Amiga is only one step away from releasing OS4
(well, I know we have to wait and do not yet know what we _really_ get), later
DE.
If and when AmigaInc. succeeds I see only a niche left for MorphOs/Aros.
They deserve better.
nuff said, this is MHO, just 2ct..
Ciao Alex
More On The MorphOS - Amiga Inc talks : Comment 5 of 39ANN.lu
Posted by Ralph Schmidt on 04-Apr-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Anonymous):
BTW..also for Sinan. If people wanna read what i say on that mailinglist
they should join it to see the whole scope and not one article taken out.
Sigh
>Correct me if I'm wrong but one of the reasons the Warp model was chosen was for the hardware
>independancy. Where PowerUP requires the infamous "ralph-rom" to work along with
I don't understand what the so called "ralph-rom" has to do with powerup
and expecially MorphOS.
>unused/undocumented registers hacked in by the ppc boards, the warp model does not. As an
How should registers of our designed ppc board be hacked in ?
I haven't used a hammer to hack them into the chips. You know
serious motherboards have all own interrupt controllers and
don't use the 68k to fake one.
>example, in the 3000D you must have the INT2 line connected otherwise it will not work properly
>due to interupt calls made in PowerUP. Without the INT2 line connected, you can run WarpOS and
>emulate the PowerUP libraries without any problems.
You describe complete different things here. WarpOS obviously creates
an int by poking into the amiga custom chip register. We do it through
the powerup's interrupt controller circuit.
Look...we made clear since the beginning on the MorphOS webpage that
we go for an AmigaHW independent OS. We made clear that we work on
an own non amiga hw and we made clear that we wanna run morphos on
that HW. How can somebody here and elsewhere assume that we are so
stupid to depend the MorphOS design on the current powerup/amiga
design then.
We simply use that HW because...it's the only one available,
we know it inside out and it's perfect for debugging.
Talking to windmills...
More On The MorphOS - Amiga Inc talks : Comment 6 of 39ANN.lu
Posted by KSK on 04-Apr-2001 22:00 GMT
It makes me feel sad to see that Amigans themself are ripping the community apart, again.
my 2 cents:
If AROS gets finished someday, great (but it's not for me, no apps)!
If MorphOS gets finished, superb (it would be a great back-up plan for me)!
If AmigaOS4-5 gets finished, superb (it would be the only real Amiga OS, with the possibility of official support)!
If AmigaDE gets finished, great (it would be great for future mobile devices as well as the next generation HW independent application layer for Amiga/Mac/linux/Windows/QNXrtp/whatever)!
If none of those comes through, I prey that QNXrtp/BeOS manages to get the momentum going, so that there starts to appear some decent apps.
Then there is Linux, which also might someday become useable for me...
More On The MorphOS - Amiga Inc talks : Comment 7 of 39ANN.lu
Posted by kriz on 04-Apr-2001 22:00 GMT
yeah, this is sad...Everytime sometihing good happens people start to arguing about wich way to go...
I dont know what you should do, but PLEASE dont fuck it up once again...:(
amiga 4 life.
More On The MorphOS - Amiga Inc talks : Comment 8 of 39ANN.lu
Posted by m0ns00n on 04-Apr-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Andy Hall):
Come on man! The community is already split! Now, live with it. If the "community" is still getting split, it is a wrong word for it. The community is collapsing, not being split. It is collapsing and new communities are born, together with people from other collapsed communities. This is the dynamics of the human species. There you go.
More On The MorphOS - Amiga Inc talks : Comment 9 of 39ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Toner on 04-Apr-2001 22:00 GMT
> Has anybody ever asked if perhaps H&P used the Predator HW
> designer to design a HW for their enviroment so that they
>have some politicial instrument at Amiga Inc. to avoid the
> situation of Bplan/MorphOS with SW and HW and them having
> nothing besides an older emulation.
> H&P/Eyetech controlls the AmigaOne 1200 HW as we control
> our HW. The other side used this instrument already last
> year when our request was denied...and this has not happened
> because Eyetech wouldn't have wanted it. They only care for
> a HW they can sell."
Well, the developer of the AmigaOne hardware (and predator/Brainstormer)
probably had reasons to choose WarpUP over PowerUP/MorphOS/anything else
or making a whole new software system. I myself can remember requesting
to him in the pre-Predator and active Brainstormer project days that he use
WarpOS. Why would I do this? It's not because I'm a WarpOS obsessed lunatic,
and I don't have any personal hatred of anything Ralph-ish. Those are silly
things, btu there are people like that on both sides. I requested that he
support WarpOS for one reason, the PPC software I wanted to run was programmed
for use with the WarpOS kernel. Wipeout 2097, Heretic II, FusionPPC/iFusion,
Shogo, etc. that I personally want to use are all WarpOS based. Why would I
have not wanted PPC hardware I was interested in (ie. anything better than
existing and already old PPC604 solutions) to run anything else but NOT WarpOS?
Remember, this was long befor MorphOS was announced/released, or the more
recent WarpOS emulation for it. I made the same request to Met@box after
Brainstormer fell silent and Amijoe was an active project, even the much talked
about but later "we never announced that", even though they did, "4000" model.
I asked them to support WarpOS so that I could run the PPC software I personally
wanted to run. And this only because the particular PPC software I'm interested
in is WarpOS. It's not PowerUP/MorphOS usable without the relatively just last
week or so released WarpOS emulation. There just aren't very many native
PowerUP/MorphOS programs I'm intrested in, and outside of Voyager, I can't
think of any. (I mostly use IBrowse anyway, so Voyager alone is not enough
reason for me personally to choose against WarpOS)
So this may not be a "Martin, designer of AmigaOne hardware" hates
"Ralph, developer of morphOS" thing at all, but more of a business decision to
support more software wanted by some majority of potential customers of said
hardware. I'm sure that if all/most of the apps/games were made for PowerUP (and thus
MorphOS) things would have been different, since the smarter business decision
should be obvious.
I don't hate Ralph. I don't hate PowerUP or MorphOS. I don't have some twisted and
unreasonable fetish for WarpOS. I haven't sat down and compared the two or three APIs
against each other. I haven't run performance comparisons. I don't know which technology
is technologically better than the other. All three sound to me like they are perfectly
usable, and none sound like I should avoid it as if it's the black plague. I merely
choose to want the one supported by the app/game software I want to run. Today, in my
case, this happens to be WarpOS. And so I choose, without knowing or even caring about technical
details, who has the theoretically best design, etc. I believe that WarpOS and AmigaOS 4.x
will be made good enough to do what I want. So it won't likely be released with the
rock-solid stability of a 20 year old Unix distribution. Perhaps MorphOS will have
less bugs on 4.0's release date. I believe it will improve, as will MorphOS and AROS
and other things, and it will reasonably do what I want it to do. I believe it will
certainly be less frustrating to use than MS Windows. And that's what really counts.
More On The MorphOS - Amiga Inc talks : Comment 10 of 39ANN.lu
Posted by Andy Hall on 04-Apr-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (m0ns00n):
>Come on man!
>The community is already split!
>Now, live with it. If the "community" is still getting split,
>it is a wrong word for it. The community is collapsing, not being split.
>It is collapsing and new communities are born, together with people from
>other collapsed communities.
>This is the dynamics of the human species.
>There you go.
Rubbish! If you always go about like that then you'll never get anywhere
in life. Just sitting there and accepting stuff like that, then you're worse
than than anyone whose splitting it.
More On The MorphOS - Amiga Inc talks : Comment 11 of 39ANN.lu
Posted by Andy hall on 04-Apr-2001 22:00 GMT
It would have been nice is ralph would have answered me.
I won't give up on this. I'm determined to either sort this out or at
least try to find out the EREALL truth
More On The MorphOS - Amiga Inc talks : Comment 12 of 39ANN.lu
Posted by m0ns00n on 04-Apr-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (Andy hall):
"Rubbish! If you always go about like that then you'll never get anywhere
in life. Just ..."
-
You are in an illusion, that's what I'm saying. Use your common sense. I have been with the Amiga since 1989, and based upon my own experience and real world knowledge, I have finally seen what is happening. After commodoores demise, all we have been left with is false hope, in retrospect. When Newtek left, RealSoft, Hisoft etc, the community was split, it was split between the professionals who left for greener grass and the amateurs, who after a while was able to do the pro's work. Then these new pros left as well (Team 17) as they matured. Now we have some companies that might get us somewhere, but we don't have enough people. AROS is open source, and has the ability to survive without money. That is my bet, for what it's worth. It would be great if more developers saw this, so we would get our own OS in the community. As long as Amiga Inc is not tied to the community directly, it is not giving those left a future - read in the classic world. They want to give us something new. The new may or may not come. OS4 may or may not come. I just don't trust them anymore. And their partners are just not capable enough (their partners for Amiga specific prods).
-
The truth is that if we stopped letting ourselves fool in 1998, we would already have our own platform. Steve Crietzman tried with Open Amiga. Amigans just kept with their faith, like good members of the cult. Loyality should not come when there is no reason. This is the truth, and there are no apathy in this, only an acceptance of the truth is what it is.
-
The dream of Amiga becoming big again may or may not happen, but a plan B is always best kept in safety, and AROS might be it, as it doesn't need anything else than itself to run, opposed to morphos which needs the Kickstart at least.
-
Well, I won't continue to annoy anyone, that is not my intention. I may be wrong, time will tell, but I'm not going to hang around here waiting anymore. Nobody is excluded to go anywhere in the future, so reason won't hinder you. Don't try to come up with those clichĂȘ arguments again, they have been overused the last couple of years, and only bring bitterness to mind. Taking the OS into our own hands, that would be a nice dream, but it is kinda realized in AROS, so why not help them out! Use your time helping them as developers; port your old Amiga apps which are OS compliant. At least get yourselves on the User mailinglist and see what is going on. x86 or PPC, Aros is not specific on that one in the longer run. It might even run on your classic hardware if you want that.
-
End of my annoying crap, ok?
More On The MorphOS - Amiga Inc talks : Comment 13 of 39ANN.lu
Posted by Casey R Williams on 05-Apr-2001 22:00 GMT
So it seems we are all agreed on two things. We want to be assured that all <reasonable> effort will be made to allow AmigaOS4.0 to run on as many PPC boards as possible. Also, it seems as if we all want to be able run whatever we like on the new HW. This truly concerns me, as I hope Amiga don't pull an Apple and try to lock other OSes out of the AmigaOne. Assuming they don't, then I expect to see many AmigaOne users running Linux and also MorphOS. There's absolutely nothing wrong with this, nor should it really concern the developers as supporting both MorphOS and AmigaOS4 should be quite easy. In fact, I'd be really hesitant to buy the AmigaOne if I thought Amiga were afraid of Linux or MorphOS being used on it. BeOS on the other hand... ;)
More On The MorphOS - Amiga Inc talks : Comment 14 of 39ANN.lu
Posted by Andy Hall on 05-Apr-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (m0ns00n):
Illusion my arse!
I'd like to make it clear, I'm not an "amigan" in any way, shape or form. I was a PC user long before I got an amiga and continue to be so.
It just so happens that I really enjoy using my amiga. I am an Amiga USER.
Being apethetic towards everything doesn't help anyone really does it? I'm not saying that everyone should jump whenever Amiga Inc. says so, I certainly wouldn't, but by having a "nothing matters anymore" attitude you are as good as leaving the platform. Actually why don't you? That's not an insult that is a real question. I've met users who don't really care about anything, hate all other amiga users, all the vendors and dealers, yet constantly hang around and moan. What is the point? If there is nothing worthwhile here then why do you stay? I would really like to know as I have never had a straight answer to date.
There isn't any point in being part of a community without taking part, I'm really starting to realise this, that's why I ask questions, and am trying to make a point.
Basically what I've been trying to say all along is that everyone will be better off if we all stick together. You need different ideas in a community for it to evolve. MorphOS + AmigaOSsuccess.
More On The MorphOS - Amiga Inc talks : Comment 15 of 39ANN.lu
Posted by KSK on 05-Apr-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (Andy Hall):
To Andy: Wise words man!
To Casey: as far as I understand it, there is no means to stop MorphOS/Linux/AROS from being ported to AmigaOne.
More On The MorphOS - Amiga Inc talks : Comment 16 of 39ANN.lu
Posted by Vincent Perkins on 05-Apr-2001 22:00 GMT
Why dose the Amiga World have to compete! When the AmigaMCC was changed OS from QNX to linux, we, were agin wondring who to follow, Amiga or QNX? (even though it means nothing no!) But again we now have MorphOS or Amiga OS4.0. I dont see why they cart work together as they both have one aim, to keep the Amiga ALIVE! But insead there will to risk killing the Amiga! in spliting the Amiga communty apart. Please guys dont let this happen, try and work together for the future of Amiga!!!!
More On The MorphOS - Amiga Inc talks : Comment 17 of 39ANN.lu
Posted by Amifan on 05-Apr-2001 22:00 GMT
I seems to me that there are only a few so called "morphOS followers. You always see the same names above the Pro MOS and anti-OS4 posts.
So it may seem that there are a lot ppl who go MOS, but in fact there aren't that much at all. But to put that aside.
1) You need an OS to run programs, right?
2) You need compatible hardware (DIMM sockets, APG(PRO) , PCI USB) to be able to upgrade your hardware, right?
3) You need drivers to use the latest gfx cards, right?
4 )You need faster hardware to be able to run the latest software (games)at decent speeds, right?
So
a) Why do you want to use an OS if there are no serious apps/games available or planned (I hate this word). Staring to the titlebar which shows MorphOS (C) 1999-2001 becomes very boring after half an hour.
b) We want to upgrade our amiga's some times with more and faster memory, a faster CPU, and not in the expansion in a expansion in a expansion way, just a new piece of hardware with the new features. My question: why do you want OS4.0 to run on old outdated hardware? Why not a nice and shiny new mainboard. I just don't get it. all those voices in the past couple of years shouting: we want new hardware, but when the times there, they don't want to buy it but stick with the old and outdated crap.
c) Voodoo3 drivers are great at this time, because 3dfx gave away their chipset information, but how do you think to realise a driver for a new GFX card without the chipinfo? AmigaIn.c found the sollution with their partnership with Matrox. So now we can at least have AGP driver for at least one line of gfx cards. No it's not nVIDIA, but don't expect a GeFOrce 3 driver for CGFX MOS instead. Don't expect a MATROX drover for MOS. Just not going to happen, but some people tend to think that gfx drivers drop out of the air. Voodoo3 and s3 virge and Permedia2 are the only supported chipsets and I doubt there will be any other chipsets supported.
d) All in one sollution is so much nicer then a expansion in a expansion....What if your BlizzardPPC fails after you bought a $$$$ DCE G/3G4 expansion for your G-REX?? Buy a new BlizzardPPC? I bet that most of the people in here don't realise that hardware can fail, it won't work forever.
e) Going bPLAN seems dangerous, because Raplh Schmidt is involved. He has treatened often that bPLAN will not support OS4. You you get a nice AGP slot, but again, what do you want to plug in? A voodoo5 AGP at best. No 3D support, because 3dfx did only release the information about the 2D stuff.
f) Believe me, Eyetech AmigaOne is not some a1200 expansion, it's a standalone mainboard like the bPLAN one. It's just capable to use the A1200 original chipset by providing an a1200 connection...The a1200 is an expansion for the Eyetech AmigaOne..the Eyetech Amigaone is not some kind of accelerator for the A1200.
g) Some of us want to use the 3D stuff from a 3D card for hardware accelerated games. until now (apart from the not supported rave3d), Warp3D is the only api providing this capability. MOS has no lowlevel or GL support for 3D cards. so MOS is no way if you're interested in 3D stuff.
h) OK If I'm a compagny looking for an alternative platform to support, and i get a call from some guy from MOS and from AmigaInc. which one would I support?
1)MorphOS uh? never heard of you, what's your userbvase or hardware, is there any mayor compagny supporting you already? NO!? Well you're to risky to support
2) AmigaInc, you I remember that! You're trying to get back uh? New OS new hardware, I'm sure that just the name will atrack new users, i'm in. If it sells wel then expect all are new titles to be ported!
conclusion: No matter if MOS is better more stable or capable to run on the old hardware. You can't survive in this world without support unless you're selfproviding. Providing your own gfx chip, your own apps/games. But MorphOS can't do that.
Don't waste your money to be angry afterward and jump to a peecee. For your own best, support the "official" way how "unamiga" this may look at first...thinks will work out to be the best in the end.....
-all your amiga future belong to amigaInc- :)
More On The MorphOS - Amiga Inc talks : Comment 18 of 39ANN.lu
Posted by Alan C on 05-Apr-2001 22:00 GMT
I'm not interested in the bickering, the reasons why or whose fault it is.
If Amiga and MorphOS can't work together, then for goodness sake get on with your own projects and stop wasting time arguing. It gets no-one anywhere.
More On The MorphOS - Amiga Inc talks : Comment 19 of 39ANN.lu
Posted by Mekanix on 05-Apr-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (Amifan):
What can I say.... I agree!
Finally the community gets what it have been shouting about.... and then that's wrong too. There is just no pleasing in some people.
Bjarne
More On The MorphOS - Amiga Inc talks : Comment 20 of 39ANN.lu
Posted by Phill Wooller on 05-Apr-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (Ralph Schmidt):
Is Shark PPC support likely in MorphOS?
More On The MorphOS - Amiga Inc talks : Comment 21 of 39ANN.lu
Posted by Sinan Gurkan on 05-Apr-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (Mekanix):
Hi
BPlan Pegasos is a better motherboard than Escena AmigaOne in technical terms and specifications..But I guess it will also be expensive than a Escena AmigaOne.
Fleecy Moss is currently waiting for answer from BPlan GmBH if they want to continue partnership with Amiga Inc (allowing OS4.0 on their hardware) or cancelling it (using only MorphOS/Linux/QNX(?) on Pegasos)
I hope that both Eyetech allows MorphOS on AmigaOne, and BPlan allows AmigaOS4.0 on Pegasos...
Otherwise we will face another crisis...:(
More On The MorphOS - Amiga Inc talks : Comment 22 of 39ANN.lu
Posted by Stephan Neise on 05-Apr-2001 22:00 GMT
It's funny. You thought the WarpOS/PowerUP war is over?
It has just begun!
bPlan and MorphOS vs. AmigaONE and OS4.0
And this time, MorphOS has the advantage: It exists, it has applications and it
gains momentum. The only way it can be stopped would be if Amiga Inc. decided to
take legal actions against Schmidt & Co.
It'll be interesting to see, how this one will turn out.
More On The MorphOS - Amiga Inc talks : Comment 23 of 39ANN.lu
Posted by Mike Harrison on 05-Apr-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (Amifan):
Amen Brother!!!!!
More On The MorphOS - Amiga Inc talks : Comment 24 of 39ANN.lu
Posted by Emmanuel Lesueur on 05-Apr-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (Amifan):
"A" == "Amifan" writes:
A> e) Going bPLAN seems dangerous, because Raplh Schmidt is involved.
Yes. I for one avoid turning on my computer at night when the moon
is full, now that I have MorphOS installed.
More On The MorphOS - Amiga Inc talks : Comment 25 of 39ANN.lu
Posted by LordRover on 05-Apr-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 24 (Emmanuel Lesueur):
Yes, it grows long sharp teeth, doesn`t it?
Seriously though, I plan to support both, if both will make it. My preferences lie with Amiga Inc.,
but should they fail to make it, the only viable (?) solution will be MorphOS. Maybe we should lock up
both Ralph and Bill `till they reach an agreement ;)
Bye,
Alex
More On The MorphOS - Amiga Inc talks : Comment 26 of 39ANN.lu
Posted by John Webster on 05-Apr-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (LordRover):
Why is it so important to agree?
AROS and MorphOS have already agreed on a standard, to make the two systems source-compatible in the future when they go beyond AmigaOS 3.x in terms of capabilities. This means the two can have many of the same programs.
This also means Amiga Inc's AmigaOS 4+ will be incompatible with the two new Amiga-like systems. They should get together with the AROS/MorphOS so they can work together, instead of Amiga Inc going their own merry and incompatible way, and assuming in the usual arrogant way that they are right.
More On The MorphOS - Amiga Inc talks : Comment 27 of 39ANN.lu
Posted by Andy Hall on 05-Apr-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (LordRover):
That's great idea!
Anyone else fancy joining me for some SAS style kidnappings? ;-)
Damn I'm becoming like Mike from Spaced! :-)
Seriously, slinging mud at either Amiga Inc. or MorphOS won't help anyone.
It annoys the hell out of me when people do it, it's a waste of time, it achieves
nothing.
I strongly believe the the market out there is not big enough to support both options
and I wouldn't want to see either of them fade away.
More On The MorphOS - Amiga Inc talks : Comment 28 of 39ANN.lu
Posted by Andy Hall on 05-Apr-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 26 (John Webster):
Amiga paid millions to own the company. If they hadn't that would have been the end of it.
It IS thier right to decide the direction of thier company.
Why is no-one willing to give BOTH sides a chance?
More On The MorphOS - Amiga Inc talks : Comment 29 of 39ANN.lu
Posted by Alex Klauke on 05-Apr-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 26 (John Webster):
That is what I was aiming at.
All three, AROS, MorphOs and AmigaOS4 claim to be OS3 compatible at last.
But only AmigaInc. owns the properties and rights for the AmigaOS in a legal
way. That does by no means say that no one may try to produce a compatible
OS, but as a company AmigaInc. can have all the 'arrogance' to push their
own direction, as any other company has. Simply business. And they (AmigaInc.)
said they will not force anyone to stop their projects as long as no
copyright issues are involved. I have no reason to doubt this claim.
Well, as I have to get a new machine anyway (the 4000 is broken) and saved the
old 3.x IDE harddrives I may evaluate who serves me best. And I will.
Until recently the new hardware would have been an Athlon, now it seems it is
going to be AmigaOne.
But, what I was thinking about is, what about compatibility issues in advance
of version 3? We will have PPC and x86 based systems not supported by AmigaOS4.0.
So if their is any chance of getting 4.x compatibility additionally to 3.x
would that harm either the AROS crew or MorphOS? I say no. If and when AmigaOS4
comes out this is a chance to go. And this could also be a chance for AmigaInc.
and at this point in time would mean a move to more actively supporting those
efforts (AROS/MorphOs) if it is not taking away to much working power for their
original projects (AmigaOS4.0PPC on AmigaOne+AmigaDE).
I am getting a little bit naive here, I know. But I just recently thought about
and thought it worth being said. Good future to _every_ one ;-)
They are _all_ Amigans.
Just 2ct.
Ciao, Alex
More On The MorphOS - Amiga Inc talks : Comment 30 of 39ANN.lu
Posted by LordRover on 05-Apr-2001 22:00 GMT
Basically it were not too important to agree; competition keeps the market alive, but not THIS market.
I agree (not that it`s that important), with what`s been said above: NO, i don`t think Amiga is
behaving in a particularly arrogant way (I believe their correction of direction was confusing, but up to now
I can discover no arrogance) and YES, they do absolutely have the right to decide which way their company
will go.
The only thing I mourn is the fact that both solutions seem attractive but a merger will most probably not
come to fruition because of personal issues, not technological ones.
Correct me if I`m mistaken but the whole WarpOS vs. PowerUP thingy is not only childish but unnecessary:
both kernels were transitional solutions to allow the ClassicOS to use the PPC, so if the whole OS will be ported
to the PPC why should you possibly still hanker after hacked together software solution (although you would probably
still need some sort of backwards compatibility for current software)? BTW I know this view to be slightly
over-simplified ;)
Alex
More On The MorphOS - Amiga Inc talks : Comment 31 of 39ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 06-Apr-2001 22:00 GMT
ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US!
More On The MorphOS - Amiga Inc talks : Comment 32 of 39ANN.lu
Posted by Mark Drew on 07-Apr-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 31 (Anonymous):
Someone set up us the bomb!(again)
You can install Win 2K and Win Me on the same computer using the same file system. If these two OS's are destined to go their separate ways please use a compatible file system and set up a dual boot system that gives us the greatest return out of our hardware investments.
Cheers :o)
More On The MorphOS - Amiga Inc talks : Comment 33 of 39ANN.lu
Posted by Amifan on 07-Apr-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 24 (Emmanuel Lesueur):
Dear emmanuel,
Try to get the whole picture before you reply, I know that you are a MorphOS beta tester and even named in the "thanks to..." section of the morphOS guide.
Going bPLAN is dangerous if you want to run AOS4.0 on it while Ralph Schmidt is threatning that it won't support AOS4.0......
By the way. I ment guys like you by the shouting " I won't go AInc " minority.
More On The MorphOS - Amiga Inc talks : Comment 34 of 39ANN.lu
Posted by Amifan on 07-Apr-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 26 (John Webster):
Those are both no Amiga oses, they can not even carry the name....
So if you want to get away from the amiga then that's fine....but they got no chance to survive outside the emmanuel type of followers, I know it's hard for them to admit, and maybe that's even harder then to give up, but anyway. In the end it's all about money and support. AmigaInc will get moeny from the PDA things, support from H&P and Hyperion at least. Those are the only amiga developers left. AmigaInc can much easier get new developers for AOS4.0 then MorphOS for something new....
Don't matter how you look at it, those are facts. MorphOS can only provide an alternative to the "official" OS then compete with it. But then again. It's a shame that a probably good mainboard like a pegasos, will be spoiled by the politics behind it. Staring blind on MorphOS
More On The MorphOS - Amiga Inc talks : Comment 35 of 39ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 07-Apr-2001 22:00 GMT
I wonder why this isn't the poll on the front page instead of the current one:
What will you use ?
Currently I belong to the "MorphOS camp".
More On The MorphOS - Amiga Inc talks : Comment 36 of 39ANN.lu
Posted by Emmanuel Lesueur on 07-Apr-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 34 (Amifan):
"Amifan" writes:
A> Those are both no Amiga oses, they can not even carry the name....
A>
A> So if you want to get away from the amiga then that's fine....
When will you understand that this is no argument?
Look, I have been using MorphOS for one year now. I have been using it
as my primary OS for 9-10 months. Since then, I hardly ever boot the
68k OS, and when I do, it's only to check that a 68k version of a
program I do (under MorphOS) actually works when used without MorphOS.
And guess what: I still use exactly the same programs and the same
environment than I did before using MorphOS. The only difference is
that it is faster, often *much* faster (to be fair, I have a 68040,
there are probably slower things compared to a 68060).
So, is that getting away from the Amiga? And even if it is, who cares?
There's nothing sacred about AmigaOS. I used it because I enjoyed it
more than the other systems I tried. Now I use MorphOS because I
enjoy it even more. Why should I care about the name?
Now what do I win by using MorphOS? Easy: most of the programs I use
are now native, especially the cpu intensive ones. Of course, depending
on what you do with your computer, that may not be true for you. But
despite what you are saying, the list of software recompiled for
MorphOS grows everyday, at a *much* faster rate than the list of both
WarpUP and PowerUP software ever have. And there's a good reason for
that: recompiling programs for MorphOS is *easy* as long as it's not
written in 68k asm.
And you would like us (that is, people who tried and use MorphOS) to
give up for some hypothetical OS that exists nowhere besides in
Fleecy's imagination? Get real. Until AI actually has a product
released, there's no point even considering that. And if they manage
to get something out, unless it is better than MorphOS, there's no
point either. This will definitely not happen this summer, nor
anytime soon. And IMHO, it will not happen at all.
A> Don't matter how you look at it, those are facts.
No, those are not facts. Only your (uninformed) opinions.
A> MorphOS can only provide an alternative to the "official" OS then
A> compete with it.
Currently, MorphOS has nothing to compete with (fact). And that will
probably not change for a while (opinion).
More On The MorphOS - Amiga Inc talks : Comment 37 of 39ANN.lu
Posted by Emmanuel Lesueur on 07-Apr-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 33 (Amifan):
"Amifan" writes:
A> Going bPLAN is dangerous if you want to run AOS4.0 on it while Ralph
A> Schmidt is threatning that it won't support AOS4.0......
Going the AOS4.0 way is dangerous because it may never happen at all.
More On The MorphOS - Amiga Inc talks : Comment 38 of 39ANN.lu
Posted by Amifan on 07-Apr-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 37 (Emmanuel Lesueur):
Going MOS is dangarous any time because:
1) If AOS4.0 fails to b realised, then the amiga is dead afterall, MOS has no chance to succeed with only this small amount of users and even less programs, and about your growth rate, where are the commercial "serious" programs and games? I'm talking about games like Shogo, HereticII and Earth2140, not to forget Nighthlong and Wipeout2097.
2) You expect new users to be attracked with some OS which is able to run old programs faster then a 68060 can? What about nw programs?
3) The "announcement of Titan software is nice for the statistics, but what did they gave the amiga community lately? They were only publicers lately....and their amiga programs are lack quality. On a pc they're barely enough to carry he name shareware from some home coder....
by the time AOS4 arrives (and it WILL) we'll talk again...in the mean time i'll play Earth2140 and Shogo on WarpOS
More On The MorphOS - Amiga Inc talks : Comment 39 of 39ANN.lu
Posted by Keith Blakemore-Noble on 07-Apr-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 38 (Amifan):
Amifan, you might be interested to know that the games you mention run fine under MorphOS too.
Yes, it's true! MorphOS runs PowerUp *AND* WarpUp software, and even runs Warp3D software even though MorphOS is only in beta atm.
So, what was your objection again?
Anonymous, there are 39 items in your selection
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