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[News] More Fleecy explanationsANN.lu
Posted on 11-Apr-2001 16:09 GMT by Christian Kemp25 comments
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Fleecy also mentions a Amiga Development Pipeline and mentions how he would like to see MUI on AmigaOS 4.0 which should be considered as a personal opinion and no firm committment He also mentions the MorphOS situation once more and closes off with saying that No one benefits from a split community but MS and Apple.
More Fleecy explanations : Comment 1 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by dmac aka: Day_Walker (216.61.218.89) on 10-Apr-2001 22:00 GMT
I too see the MorphOS situation as a continuation of the destruction of any hopes of an Amiga or even Amiga "Like" community to prosper. Everyone loses.
More Fleecy explanations : Comment 2 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by John Payne (128.138.211.232) on 10-Apr-2001 22:00 GMT
Fleecy writes:
>"Each stage has a set of inputs and outputs described in XML, and a set
>of requirements. The idea is that companies can create solutions for any
>or all of these stages, and that developers can build their own
>pipeline as a set or subset of the ADP, chosing the apps the wish, and
>having guaranteed interoperability because of the formal specification
>and XML standard."
Good move!
I've recently been learning about XHTML, and picking up a sketchy understanding of XML as part of that, but it's clear that XML is worth the effort to learn it.
More Fleecy explanations : Comment 3 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by Quang (4.21.59.2) on 10-Apr-2001 22:00 GMT
I would like to see Qt (http://www.trolltech.com) for the Amiga GUI.
More Fleecy explanations : Comment 4 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by SnuggleBunny (195.92.194.18) on 10-Apr-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (dmac aka: Day_Walker):
I too see Amiga Inc's continued existence as a continuation of the destruction of any hopes of an Amiga or even Amiga "Like" community to prosper. Everyone loses.
Support the solution that works.
More Fleecy explanations : Comment 5 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by Kelli217 (170.141.175.242) on 10-Apr-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (SnuggleBunny):
Support the solution made by the company that owns the name and has the proper license to the intellectual property of Amiga.
Or, support a solution by a third party and screw everything up.
Ralph is not going to dictate terms to Amiga Inc. They know that, he knows that, the community knows that.
It doesn't matter if it works; Ralph is too independent of thought to work *with* anyone *else* on a *shared* vision. Ralph's attitude is "my way or the highway." And Amiga is taking the highway into the future without him.
More Fleecy explanations : Comment 6 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by Yuca (193.175.73.201) on 10-Apr-2001 22:00 GMT
"No one benefits from a split community but MS and Apple."
Wow, at least he has a nice self-confidence. But he better becomes real, MacOS X and M$ are far beyond the possibilities that whatever AmigaOS 4.x ever can offer, including the lacking hardware market for Amiag-stuff at the moment.
More Fleecy explanations : Comment 7 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by Johan Rönnblom (193.11.248.159) on 10-Apr-2001 22:00 GMT
Support those who spend their time doing something useful instead of
trying to sabotage the opposition. Hopefully, that can mean supporting
both MorphOS and Amiga. Face it. It doesn't matter whether you
personally would like there to be only one alternative. It doesn't
matter whether Amiga thinks so. It doesn't matter whether the MorphOS
people think so. We have at least two alternatives. Three, with AROS.
This is reality. Fighting is only going to hurt all involved.
More Fleecy explanations : Comment 8 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by Andy Hall (212.250.100.120) on 11-Apr-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Yuca):
OS4x is only the build up to OS5 which will be the biggest thing to happen in a long time, and will be at one with the DE.
MorphOS likewise is going for a completely new kernal which will vastly expand current systems.
Which ever way you look at it the Amiga system is moving forward.
MacOSX is cacky. Windows? Which version are you talking about? seeing as M$ are planning to launch 86 different versions over the next 5 years, and charge you monthly for using them.
There has never been a better time to be an Amiga User!
More Fleecy explanations : Comment 9 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by Yuca (193.175.73.201) on 11-Apr-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (Andy Hall):
Ever heard of "market"? The problem here is not MorphOS. Even for them there is no real market existing. Amiga had a great idea of HW-independancy which is DE. Now, they will put time and money into the effort to bring out a HW-bound PPC-OS for a none-existing PPC-Amiga-market. I would be interested in a REAL estimation of about how much PPC-Zicos (or whatever you would like to call it) they CAN sell. Maybe 5-10,000 units? This is no market. I think Amiga ran out of money, because why should they even consider to bring out OS4.x?
The model/idea of DE superior to any existing OS (presuming DE would really work), even better than Linux because you have compatibility for the really same programm on any HW DE exists for. Why even bother with OS4.x and a roadmap to OS5 (which surely would not run on any other HW than PPC-Zico, at least nobody said something official about that), but drop the idea of a x86-self-hosted DE? Hosting is okay as a teaser, but even if you only loose 10% performance on a desktop because of hosting, this is too much. So self-hosted DE is a MUST-option (IMHO). I would like to know the reasons why Amiga believes that a PPC-based OS is easier to develop (okay, H&P already have it finished) and better to sell than a x86-self-hosted DE? Obviously the think this way is better, but why havent they known that a year ago?
And coming to the end now: if MacOS X is "cacky" or not is to be seen. AmigaOS 3.0 was cacky also, but better at 3.1, so what?! Speaking of M$ you are right, but I was referring to their market dominance. PPC-Zicos have (at least now) no chances on the market, so I think it would be more clever (and less waste of time and power) to develop the VPs for PPC and x86 to run DE hosted (Mac?) and self-hosted. How much OS4.x will they sell? 10,000 copies (presumably with AmigaONEs because lack of p5-PPC-boards)? Maybe less? Maybe some more? I am very sceptical about this way. Maybe Amiga is right and will have a succes with their changed roadmap to DE, although I would have preferred a PPC-Amiga-OS two years ago. But if they are not right, they make money with OS4.x for some more months and what happens is to be seen.
Regards,
More Fleecy explanations : Comment 10 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by anonymous (216.90.48.16) on 11-Apr-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (Kelli217):
It's good that you know Ralph Schmidt so well, that you can make such an informed
opinion about his character, and relationship with other Amiga Developers. If you
take the time to inform yourself and actually talk to him, you may have a different
opinion. Talk to some of the contractors for H&P for example on the OS3.5/3.9 projects
well at least the ones they talked too, before they included their software unlicensed
or uncredited, this is something RS would never do. Well, anyways believe what you want
I guess, whether its factual or not.
More Fleecy explanations : Comment 11 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by Nicholai Benalal (213.89.4.12) on 11-Apr-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (Kelli217):
> It doesn't matter if it works; Ralph is too independent of thought to work
> *with* anyone *else* on a *shared* vision.
> Ralph's attitude is "my way or the highway."
> And Amiga is taking the highway into the future without him.
.
Have you got any experience working with him or are you just making this
up after reading bullshit that other people who don't know him either wrote?
I strongly suspect the latter.
.
He does indeed stand up for what he believes in but that he would be
impossible to cooperate with is nonsense.
You might or might not agree with him but attacking someone like you do is a
sign of stupidity in my opinion.
More Fleecy explanations : Comment 12 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by fleecy (195.92.194.14) on 11-Apr-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (Nicholai Benalal):
I have to say that my dealings with him have been nothing
but informative, intelligent and refreshingly free of the
fluff I usually have to deal with.
More Fleecy explanations : Comment 13 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by Darrin (205.188.193.47) on 11-Apr-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (fleecy):
Then why do Amiga Inc, Elbox, H&P and Hyperion appear to have some medium sized fire-axes imbedded into their spinal columns with the words "property of Ralph Schmidt" stenciled down the handle in large, friendly letters? :)
More Fleecy explanations : Comment 14 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by Björn Hagström (193.13.79.2) on 11-Apr-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (Darrin):
>Then why do Amiga Inc, Elbox, H&P and Hyperion appear to have some medium
>sized fire-axes imbedded into their spinal columns with the words "property
>of Ralph Schmidt" stenciled down the handle in large, friendly letters? :)
The key to this riddle lies in the word 'appear'.
/Björn
More Fleecy explanations : Comment 15 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous (194.117.133.68) on 11-Apr-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (Kelli217):
>Support the solution made by the company that owns the name and has the proper >license to the intellectual property of Amiga.
>
>Or, support a solution by a third party and screw everything up.
MorphOS would never have been started if it wasn't for Fleecy and his ridiculous plans to use the Amiga brandname.
MorphOS users rejected Amiga Inc a long time ago anyway, and trying to get MorphOS stopped isn't going to change history. Those users are not coming back whatever happens to MorphOS.
This situation is of Amiga Inc's making.
More Fleecy explanations : Comment 16 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by fleecy (195.92.67.66) on 11-Apr-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (Darrin):
Does it matter?
When Apartheid ended and the ANC came to power in SA, they could have looked backwards and kept hatred, fear, misunderstanding and the like alive and, as always annoys me, you could have had the good old, victor drags the defeated up
and decides what justice and culpability means. They didn't.
Amiga Inc is planning a journey forwards. In my private discussions with Ralph, he also prefers the view ahead, as do Hyperion, and H&P.
We've all done stupid things in our lives, personal and professional. Luckily, we are also given the opportunity to learn and mature. We have nothing to gain, any of us by raking up the past. We have EVERYTHING to gain from moving forwards, and doing it with other people is always better than doing it on your own ;-)
More Fleecy explanations : Comment 17 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by Darrin (205.188.193.23) on 11-Apr-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (fleecy):
So the olive branch has been officially extended and accepted. That's good news. Even the P96 team are working on an official Mediator driver!!! The community is whole and we can all live happily ever after :) Excellent.
More Fleecy explanations : Comment 18 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by TimeWillTell (209.247.140.237) on 11-Apr-2001 22:00 GMT
I have been reading the emails posted by Fleecy on the the Yahoo Amiga One
site. I don't believe that I have ever seen anybody keep his "reasonableness"
in place as well as Fleecy has with respect to all of these questions and
assertions about What he/they said.
If Fleecy truly represents Amiga Inc.'s position on these matters, then I am
VERY optimistic that there will be a path of, if not cooperation, reduced
tensions and improved relations.
I know nothing about RS, but he is obviously very intelligent. It is not
conceivable to me that he wont be reasonable also. I would think, if the Amiga
plans are successful, there will be an improved and enlarged market for all
parties to benefit from. Recognition of this should be impetus enough for all
of these disparite entities to work through these times. Let us hope so.
But then only TimeWillTell.
More Fleecy explanations : Comment 19 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by Casey R Williams (63.66.161.148) on 11-Apr-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (TimeWillTell):
Why are we, the community, still wasting our time on this? The Amiga has been around for quite some time now, and to assume that there should be or always will be one "flavour" of the OS is like believing your language will never be changed to suit the needs of generations to come. Unix for example has spawned countless other OSes, including (surprise!) the most recent version of MacOS. What we need to do is establish a market for <ANY> Amiga-like computer, be it Amiga OS4, MorphOS, or AROS. Fighting amongst ourselves is silly, and it's in the obvious best interests of every developer to urge for as much common ground as possible among the variations which will arise. No one should ever be told that what they are doing is wrong, unnecessary, selfish or (eek!) heretical. Afterall, everyone has to put food on the table and still be able to sleep at night knowing what they hope to risk or gain. I look forward to seeing AmigaDE hosted on MorphOS. Am I the only one who'd like that?
More Fleecy explanations : Comment 20 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by Hagge (213.112.60.46) on 12-Apr-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 9 (Yuca):
First of all, why compare stuff with Linux? Linux is NOT the best OS out there.
Second, the reason that there wont be a self-hosted AmigaDE is because the partners(PDA stuff) didn't wanted them to support Virtual Memory and Memory Protection in AmigaDE(which would slow it down and isn't necessary). Still, they needed it for desktop and server use, so they had no choice(if they wanted a desktop os of their own). ## this has not been said by amigainc(i think), just my thoughts ##
More Fleecy explanations : Comment 21 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by Adam (195.6.101.222) on 12-Apr-2001 22:00 GMT
Before saying anything, maybe you should read the complete message of
fleecy to avoid misunderstood:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/amigaone/message/1701
1701 like the Entreprise, this is a good sign my friends, believe me :)
More Fleecy explanations : Comment 22 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous (194.117.133.68) on 12-Apr-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 21 (Adam):
As I recall, the Enterprise crashed and burned. 5 times in fact.
More Fleecy explanations : Comment 23 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous (193.237.227.186) on 12-Apr-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 21 (Adam):
Oh no - a Trekkie AND an Amiga Religious Fanatic? RUN!!!
More Fleecy explanations : Comment 24 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by Adam (195.6.101.196) on 13-Apr-2001 22:00 GMT
Come on guys, just keep'on funkin ! :)
More Fleecy explanations : Comment 25 of 25ANN.lu
Posted by Amigan Software (210.215.8.9) on 14-Apr-2001 22:00 GMT
Aaaaarrrggghhhh MUI??
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