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[News] ELBOX about SharkPPC, Sound and TV card drivers and Warp3D supportANN.lu
Posted on 26-Jun-2001 18:06 GMT by Christian Kemp92 comments
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Darek Dulian wrote: Below are the answers from Elbox to questions asked by Kay Are Ulvestad. The questions (asked in a message to Elbox) refer to SharkPPC cards, drivers to Mediator PCI for Sound, TV and other cards, Warp 3D support, etc.
Kay Are Ulvestad wrote:

"Hi!
I'm sorry to hassle, but you know how the Amiga market is. . . keep public relations quiet for a while, and wild rumours start circulating.
Anyway, I was hoping you could provide this impatient user with some info by answering some questions. With your permission, I will post the info on the Amiga Mediator ML as well, hopefully calming some people down. The questions may look kind of long, but I think they're mostly easy to answer. Ok, here I go:

1. There recently was a claim (outside of Elbox), that the Shark products were cancelled. Although I myself don't really believe this on such a weak basis, the recent lack of information about the products as well as the successful marketing of the AmigaONE might lead to some users feeling they've invested in a "dead end" expansion-wise. Perhaps you could tell me how the development is going? Any estimated release date?

"
As we have explained many times, we will start producing SharkPPC G3/G4 and ShakPPC+ cards when AmigaOS 4.0 is ready for releasing.

"2. When is the next driver release from you? What kind of drivers can be expected, and how soon?"

Tomorrow we will make available the MediatorUP2.3 update, which is a simultaneous update for the users of Mediator PCI 1200 and Mediator PCI ZIV. All the system files and the enclosed drivers have been optimized and adjusted to operation with Mediator PCI 1200 and ZIV. In the pci.library, workaround has been made to avoid the incorrect recognition of 68LC060 processors by the LC060.library.

The next drivers to be made available within the coming two weeks will be drivers for SoundBlaster 128 music cards.

Drivers to TV cards, which were presented in WOA 2000 in Koln are ready and will be released in one package with drivers for SounBlaster 128 music cards.

Further drivers, on which we are now working, are drivers for SoundBlaster Live! cards. The work is advanced in ca. 80% on these drivers.

Writing drivers is a very time-consuming work. Unlike drivers to the previous Amiga cards, like those in Zorro slots, writing drivers for PCI cards requires much more time. The reason is that drivers for Amiga cards were prepared usually for one specific series (mask) of chipsets around which they were produced. For example, CyberVision 64 3D cards were produced around the S3 ViRGE 86C325, chipset but always only and solely for one series (mask) of these chipsets. Our drivers for S3 cards support various chipsets of the S3 ViRGE, but also have to run with all the series (masks) of these chipsets.
This applies to other drivers written by us, as well.

In the recent several months, production of other PCI busboards for Amiga was announced. Probably many people believed that this would result in co-operation of companies for writing drivers for PCI cards. We guess such co-operation would be beneficial for users of Amiga with PCI slots.

Elbox has written drivers for Voodoo3, Vooodoo4, Voodoo5 and S3 Virge graphic cards and Ethernet cards.

We hoped that if a new busboard is to be introduced to the market, its authors will prepare drivers for these PCI cards, for which no Amiga support is available as yet. Then, by licensing, they would make available their drivers for working with Mediator, receiving in return licences for drivers prepared by Elbox.

Well, as we see, the trend is completely different:

The only drivers which are made for other PCI busboards are drivers to these PCI cards, to which Elbox has already written drivers.
Writing drivers to these PCI cards, to which drivers have been written and made available by Elbox, is like solving a difficult problem in physics, when you already have seen its solution...

Therefore, soon we will make available drivers for Mediator to such PCI cards, which due to technical reasons cannot work in PCI busboards other than Mediator.

We also hope that external developers will write drivers for PCI cards. SDK for Mediator is available free of charge after signing NDA.
However, prospective developers have to remember that:
- They should approach appropriate companies about documentation to PCI card chipsets, to which they want to write drivers. Usually, such companies require signing an individual NDA. Also, questions about operation of the PCI cards of interest to them must be asked with these companies.
- PCI specifications are property of PCI SIG and may be acquired at http://www.pcisig.org

"3. Is there a solution within reach to the 4mb memory window problem on early mediators with BlizzPPC cards? Or will AND have to wait for the Shark?"

For users of BlizzPPC cards with Mediator PCI 1200 produced last year we are preparing a special offer for upgrading to the appropriate MACH chip.

"4. It seems Hyperion has mostly completed the Warp3d drivers for Voodoo3. How long until we can see the true power of Voodoo3 on the Mediator?"

This question should be asked to Hyperion.

Elbox accepted financial conditions of the Hyperion company.
However, the Hyperion company so far was not able to give any specific date when their Warp3D drivers to Voodoo3 for Mediator 1200 could be released, despite numerous earlier assurances (since December 2000) on the part of the Warp3D team that preparing such drivers is only a matter of a few weeks.

As soon as Hyperion are able to give a definite date, there will be nothing to be an obstacle for signing the contract.

"Well, that's all I can think of for now. Thanks in advance, and keep up the good work for the Amiga market!"

June is a month of very intense work for us, as, apart from all the things I have already written above, we now begin production of three more Mediator busboards:
- Mediator PCI ZIV for the Z-IV busboards,
- Mediator PCI ZIII for any Amiga with Zorro III slots,
- Mediator PCI 4000 for controlling Elbox Zorro III/PCI (7xZIII, 5xPCI, 1xVideo) busboard of the E/BOX 4000 tower system (known also as Power Tower 4000 or Winner Tower 4000) for Amiga 4000D.

The two last models of Mediator are technologically the most advanced busboards in the Amiga market for Amiga 3000/4000 computers.

Mediator ZIII and Mediator 4000 busboards for Amiga 3/4000 computers, unlike other simplified bridges offered for Amiga with Zorro III slots, support the most advanced Zorro III mechanisms like e.g. DMA between PCI cards and memory in the turbo card and other features omitted in these bridges, which are necessary for cards like SoundBlaster 128 or SoundBlaster Live! to work properly.

We are glad to be able to answer your questions. If you still have any doubts, please drop us a line.

Best regards,

Darek Dulian
ELBOX COMPUTER, Support Department
support@elbox.com
http://www.elbox.com
ELBOX about SharkPPC, Sound and TV card drivers and Warp3D support : Comment 1 of 92ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 25-Jun-2001 22:00 GMT
Just when it got interesting, the text cut off.
ELBOX about SharkPPC, Sound and TV card drivers and Warp3D support : Comment 2 of 92ANN.lu
Posted by Darek Dulian on 25-Jun-2001 22:00 GMT
Continuation:<br>
<br>
We hoped that if a new busboard is to be introduced to the market, its authors will prepare drivers for these PCI cards, for which no Amiga support is available as yet. Then, by licensing, they would make available their drivers for working with Mediator, receiving in return licences for drivers prepared by Elbox.<br>
<br>
Well, as we see, the trend is completely different:<br>
<br>
The only drivers which are made for other PCI busboards are drivers to these PCI cards, to which Elbox has already written drivers.<br>
Writing drivers to these PCI cards, to which drivers have been written and made available by Elbox, is like solving a difficult problem in physics, when you already have seen its solution...<br>
<br>
Therefore, soon we will make available drivers for Mediator to such PCI cards, which due to technical reasons cannot work in PCI busboards other than Mediator.<br>
<br>
We also hope that external developers will write drivers for PCI cards. SDK for Mediator is available free of charge after signing NDA.<br>
However, prospective developers have to remember that:<br>
- They should approach appropriate companies about documentation to PCI card chipsets, to which they want to write drivers. Usually, such companies require signing an individual NDA. Also, questions about operation of the PCI cards of interest to them must be asked with these companies.<br>
- PCI specifications are property of PCI SIG and may be acquired at http://www.pcisig.org<br>
<br>
<CITE>3. Is there a solution within reach to the 4mb memory window problem on early mediators with BlizzPPC cards? Or will AND have to wait for the Shark?</CITE><br>
<br>
For users of BlizzPPC cards with Mediator PCI 1200 produced last year we are preparing a special offer for upgrading to the appropriate MACH chip.<br>
<br>
<CITE>4. It seems Hyperion has mostly completed the Warp3d drivers for Voodoo3. How long until we can see the true power of Voodoo3 on the Mediator?</CITE><br>
<br>
This question should be asked to Hyperion.<br>
<br>
Elbox accepted financial conditions of the Hyperion company.<br>
However, the Hyperion company so far was not able to give any specific date when their Warp3D drivers to Voodoo3 for Mediator 1200 could be released, despite numerous earlier assurances (since December 2000) on the part of the Warp3D team that preparing such drivers is only a matter of a few weeks.<br>
<br>
As soon as Hyperion are able to give a definite date, there will be nothing to be an obstacle for signing the contract.<br>
<br>
<CITE>Well, that's all I can think of for now. Thanks in advance, and keep up the good work for the Amiga market!</CITE><br>
<br>
June is a month of very intense work for us, as, apart from all the things I have already written above, we now begin production of three more Mediator busboards:<br>
- Mediator PCI ZIV for the Z-IV busboards,<br>
- Mediator PCI ZIII for any Amiga with Zorro III slots,<br>
- Mediator PCI 4000 for controlling Elbox Zorro III/PCI (7xZIII, 5xPCI, 1xVideo) busboard of the E/BOX 4000 tower system (known also as Power Tower 4000 or Winner Tower 4000) for Amiga 4000D.<br>
<br>
The two last models of Mediator are technologically the most advanced busboards in the Amiga market for Amiga 3000/4000 computers.<br>
<br>
Mediator ZIII and Mediator 4000 busboards for Amiga 3/4000 computers, unlike other simplified bridges offered for Amiga with Zorro III slots, support the most advanced Zorro III mechanisms like e.g. DMA between PCI cards and memory in the turbo card and other features omitted in these bridges, which are necessary for cards like SoundBlaster 128 or SoundBlaster Live! to work properly.<br>
<br>
We are glad to be able to answer your questions. If you still have any doubts, please drop us a line.<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
<br>
Darek Dulian<br>
ELBOX COMPUTER, Support Department<br>
support@elbox.com<br>
http://www.elbox.com<br>
ELBOX about SharkPPC, Sound and TV card drivers and Warp3D support : Comment 3 of 92ANN.lu
Posted by Darrin on 25-Jun-2001 22:00 GMT
Thanks for posting this. It should hto elp reduce the number of emails I get from the Mediator mailing list from people complaining that there is no soundcard/tv card driver available yet. I only wish Elbox would post regular updates of their own in order to quash the rumours before they start.
Interesting points to note are:
1. They obviously can't release the Shark until they have an OS to run on it.
2. They feel that "someone" is reverse engineering their drivers in order to produce drivers for rival cards. (I'm sure this will result in a few comments).
3. They feel that they have reached an agreement for Warp3D drivers with Hyperion, however Hyperion seem to think otherwise. (???).
4. Delays in drivers seems to have been caused by Elbox building in some sort of protection to make them usable with their hardware only. (see observation 1).
5. They seems to think that other available Z3 PCI solutions are lacking the ability to fully function with Soundblaster cards (and others).
6. Writing a polite email to Elbox instead of flaming them on newsgroups/mailing/news-sites produces a positive result.
ELBOX about SharkPPC, Sound and TV card drivers and Warp3D support : Comment 4 of 92ANN.lu
Posted by Tinman on 25-Jun-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (Darrin):
> Thanks for posting this. It should hto elp reduce the
> number of emails I get from the Mediator mailing
> list from people complaining that there is no
> soundcard/tv card driver available yet.
You'd like to think that wouldn't you ;)
> 3. They feel that they have reached an agreement
> for Warp3D drivers with Hyperion, however Hyperion
> seem to think otherwise. (???).
I think if you read what Elbox say is that they have not signed a contract yet, because they feel Hyperion have not been able to give a definate date (and stick to it) for the delivery of the drivers. Once the drivers appear, Elbox are going to lisence them. Thats what it reads like, and I don't see a problem with that. After all, we won't get them before Hyperion have finished them anyway.
> 4. Delays in drivers seems to have been caused by
> Elbox building in some sort of protection to make
> them usable with their hardware only. (see observation 1).
And the wider range of chipsets they support. Think about the Voodoo drivers, they obviously had to rework them to make them support the SDRAM or SGRAM models (since there was one release which only supported one type), or maybe differences between the 2000 and 3000. This is what was meant by different masks (the same chipset, but slight differences to the internals of the chip making them work slightly differently) making drivers take longer.
Anyway, the Mediator future sounds a bit better now.
ELBOX about SharkPPC, Sound and TV card drivers and Warp3D support : Comment 5 of 92ANN.lu
Posted by Darrin on 25-Jun-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (Tinman):
I agree mate - things look a hell of a lot better thanks to this information.
PS. Did you read my last post on the Fronter/Elite messages giving a link to the hacked Frontier replacement files whicj allow it to run on Windows 95/98/2000/ME/NT, OS2 and Linux... plus it fixes even more bugs and adds more flight controls?
ELBOX about SharkPPC, Sound and TV card drivers and Warp3D support : Comment 6 of 92ANN.lu
Posted by Darrin on 25-Jun-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (Darrin):
I mean "hacked Frontier: First Encounters replacment files".
ELBOX about SharkPPC, Sound and TV card drivers and Warp3D support : Comment 7 of 92ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion Entertainment on 25-Jun-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (Tinman):
I must strongly object to the way Elbox is twisting the facts here.
Fact of the matter is Elbox does NOT want to license Warp3D V4 drivers for Voodoo 3 IF Hyperion does not agree to the condition that the FIRST PCI solution to be supported is the Mediator 1200.
We told them repeatedly that we cannot accept this condition for two reasons:
1) It is impossible in practice because Warp3D Voodoo 3 drivers are already shipping with the Matay Prometheus card for A4000.
We can't change the course of history.
2) It is impossible legally because we have entered into a binding contract with Matay which we cannot go back on just because Elbox wants us to.
I tried to explain to Elbox time and again (and I have the e-mails to back this up) that Mediator 1200 users really don't care if drivers for a Zorro III/PCI solution are delivered first as long as they can get their hands on drivers for the Mediator 1200.
In short, as we can't turn back the clock and "unsupport" the Prometheus boards as Elbox wanted us to, we came to no agreement.
Quite a different story ...
ELBOX about SharkPPC, Sound and TV card drivers and Warp3D support : Comment 8 of 92ANN.lu
Posted by Patrick on 25-Jun-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion Entertainment):
>1) It is impossible in practice because Warp3D Voodoo 3 drivers are
>already shipping with the Matay Prometheus card for A4000.
>
>We can't change the course of history.
This is only pre-release version!
Hans-Joergen Frieden just posted on amiga.org:
'There is a pre-release on the CD, but that's strictly PPC only now, and
doesn't yet use the Command Fifo. They're also quite unstable, really just to
show off what is possible.'
ELBOX about SharkPPC, Sound and TV card drivers and Warp3D support : Comment 9 of 92ANN.lu
Posted by Steffen Haeuser on 25-Jun-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (Darrin):
Hi!
>3. They feel that they have reached an agreement for Warp3D drivers with >Hyperion, however Hyperion seem to think otherwise. (???).
Easy to be answered. The Warp3D team (and of course also Hyperion) wants a signed contract (like it exists since quite some time with Matay and DCE also), about the licensing of the Drivers. As long as no signed contract - no Drivers.
Elbox seems not to be willing to sign a contract, but at the same time say they
would have "principially have agreed" or something like that (but still no signed contract - there are signed contracts with Matay and DCE though).
It should not be so difficult to sign that contract.
I personally would prefer if Elbox would also sign a contract, so that
all three PCI Solutions can get support. And a signed contract is something
else than some post on some WWW site...
I have to admit I do not understand why they don't get over with it and sign
the stupid contract. Everything else only harms themselves.
Steffen Haeuser
ELBOX about SharkPPC, Sound and TV card drivers and Warp3D support : Comment 10 of 92ANN.lu
Posted by Darrin on 25-Jun-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 9 (Steffen Haeuser):
I have a theory that Elbox only have one pen in the whole company and someone has lost it. Perhaps Hyperion should enclose a pen in the envelope when they mail the contract :)
I agree with you completely - what can be so difficult about signing the contract? Hyperion state they will be happpy to produce the drivers and that it only requires modifying existing code, Elbox say the want them....SO SIGN THE BLOODY PAPERS!!! :)
ELBOX about SharkPPC, Sound and TV card drivers and Warp3D support : Comment 11 of 92ANN.lu
Posted by Derek Schroder on 26-Jun-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (Darrin):
hahahah lol
please sign the damn papers, I'm waiting here with my Voodoo 3 3000 as well as many other mediator users...darn I hate waiting.
ELBOX about SharkPPC, Sound and TV card drivers and Warp3D support : Comment 12 of 92ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Toner on 26-Jun-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Darek Dulian):
Perhaps Hyperion should explain what their driver completion date would be.
As in "a few weeks AFTER YOU SIGN THE LICENSE CONTRACT". Perhaps this would
then be a concrete enough driver completion date for Elbox to be willing to
sign the contract, as they don't seem to want to sign anything until they
know a definite timeframe. And fully explain that this timeframe definition
forbids completion of Mediator drivers BEFORE a contract is signed with Elbox.
ELBOX about SharkPPC, Sound and TV card drivers and Warp3D support : Comment 13 of 92ANN.lu
Posted by Darrin on 26-Jun-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (Bill Toner):
Regardless of the "timeframe" for driver production, I'm sure it will arrive a hell of a lot faster ONCE the contract is signed. Whether it's 2 weeks or 2 months, that's still sooner than NEVER (which is what Hyperion stance seems to be if they don't get this magic "John Hancock"). Hell, send it to me and I'll forge their signature :)
ELBOX about SharkPPC, Sound and TV card drivers and Warp3D support : Comment 14 of 92ANN.lu
Posted by Nian on 26-Jun-2001 22:00 GMT
Well elbox show their true filthy hoe self again, I'm sure they would be
doing far better if they stoped playing gay games with Hyperion and The P96
guys, what the fuck is the matter with these elbox dickheads? Sign the fuckn
dotted line and stop wasting time.
ELBOX about SharkPPC, Sound and TV card drivers and Warp3D support : Comment 15 of 92ANN.lu
Posted by Amifan on 26-Jun-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (Nian):
Oh yeah start flaming elbox again...:(
Remember that they were the first delivering a PCI sullution? Without the mediator, there wasn't probably a G-REX for sale yet, just a Very VERY overpriced BVision....
Anyway...If two compagnies are coming for an agreement about developing a product (in this case the Warp3d V4 voodoo3 driver is the Product). They always include a timeframe and a deadline.
If the compagny delivering the product crosses that deadline, the compagny giving the order to develop the product (Elbox) has the right to claim any financial damage or whatever on the compagny breaking contract....
This is what elbox wants, they learned fromthe past (CGFX), to not pay/deliver anything before the contract including any deadlines are signed....
In this case you might ask if Elbox got anything to demand because now they don't get an Warp3d driver anyway.
But froma pure business point of view, Elbox has the right to ask for a timeframe/deadline for the delivery before signing any contracts....
ELBOX about SharkPPC, Sound and TV card drivers and Warp3D support : Comment 16 of 92ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Yoris/Hyperion on 26-Jun-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (Amifan):
>Anyway...If two compagnies are coming for an agreement about developing a >product (in this case the Warp3d V4 voodoo3 driver is the Product). They >always include a timeframe and a deadline.
>If the compagny delivering the product crosses that deadline, the compagny >giving the order to develop the product (Elbox) has the right to claim any >financial damage or whatever on the compagny breaking contract....
The point is, there was no timeframe and deadline with Matay and DCE. Or at least, this point was no as critical as Elbox seems to think.
A professionnal relationship, especially on such a limited market as the Amiga, can also be based on trust and good faith.
Hyperion has shown in Köln last year the Voodoo 3 running on a Grex and last week end on a Prometheus. So, why the hell would we try to crook Elbox with the support of the Mediator ?
>But froma pure business point of view, Elbox has the right to ask for a >timeframe/deadline for the delivery before signing any contracts....
Of course that's their right. And Hyperion has the right to ask for a signature before spending time and money on the development of a Mediator Warp3D driver.
ELBOX about SharkPPC, Sound and TV card drivers and Warp3D support : Comment 17 of 92ANN.lu
Posted by Amifan on 26-Jun-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (Ben Yoris/Hyperion):
Remember that Elbox trusted the CGFX team, that is Frank Mariak...
Remember those other compagnies in the amiga market that shipped product but never got a payment, or payed but never got a shipment (Clickboom case).
Anyway, has elbox ever done any business with Hyperion? I don't say that hyperion can't be trusted, but you have to earn trust. It's kinda naiv to think that people can trust you because you deliver two PC ports. If you and elbox have done business before, then this contract could be based on trust.
Anyway, just give Elbox a timeline and all problems are solved......That's there official statement so they have to let go the whole "I wanna be first" issue.
ELBOX about SharkPPC, Sound and TV card drivers and Warp3D support : Comment 18 of 92ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Yoris/Hyperion on 26-Jun-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (Amifan):
Ok. Let's suppose that Hyperion say "OK, we can deliver the driver in X weeks". Would Elbox had a reason to trust us more ?
Come on, this question of timeline is not THAT important. What is more important is to know if Elbox want us to do the drivers. If so, then let's make a deal. That's all, that's very easy and that was done with other companies.
ELBOX about SharkPPC, Sound and TV card drivers and Warp3D support : Comment 19 of 92ANN.lu
Posted by Hans-Joerg Frieden on 26-Jun-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (Amifan):
OK, I am only going to explain this once.
There was never any debate about the timeline. They asked for one, and we said we're willing to commit to a timeframe on a best-effort base (since you know so well what usually goes into contract you should also know that this is common). Elbox themselves claim that developing for PCI is more difficult than developing for Zorro.
The reason why the contract was delayed was because they wanted to have the first drivers. They kept on insisting on this. We where neither ready nor in any position to grant this, both legally and technically, because the driver's for Matay are already released, and it would violate our contract with them to withhold these drivers.
Yes, we did express our intention to work on drivers for Mediator. Yes, we said it would only take a few days to adapt the drivers once they where finished. However, we also said (and this was somehow forgotten in Elbox' letter) that they should settle their dispute with the P96 people first.
I am personally offended by your statement. We are not ClickBOOM, and we have not refused or withheld payment of any sort. The mere existance of such companies (whereas the claims against ClickBOOM are just claims and not nescessarily facts) doesn't imply that Hyperion belongs to them, or does give anyone the right to assume that this might be possible. Furthermore we where not asking for trust; we were asking for a signature, after which we would start work. This is, as you will surely know, the usual procedure.
A contract is legally binding for both sides. Anyone who implies that we would not keep our side of the contract is going to treat dangerous grounds.
Anyway, we have stated what the problem is. We're still willing to make a deal, but we are not going to apologize because we didn't want to withhold drivers for other boards intentionally.
That is *our* official statement.
Best regards,
Hans-Joerg Frieden
ELBOX about SharkPPC, Sound and TV card drivers and Warp3D support : Comment 20 of 92ANN.lu
Posted by Amifan on 26-Jun-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (Ben Yoris/Hyperion):
It *IS* important....Ben says that Elbox want to be first. It can't anymore because Matay is fisrt
Now Elboxs pressdepartment says that timeframe is the only obstacle.....
Money is not the problem, their "i wanna be first" is apparently not a problem anymore...
Just give them a timeframe and they have no excuse anymore....
Or....can't you give a timeframe?
ELBOX about SharkPPC, Sound and TV card drivers and Warp3D support : Comment 21 of 92ANN.lu
Posted by Francisco on 26-Jun-2001 22:00 GMT
i am bit confusing............
i not the warp3d a integral part of AmigaOS 4.X?
if yes, then warp3d drivers will run on mediator, prometheus, amigaone, pegasus,
and any other company that have an agreeement with amiga inc to support the amigaos 4.x on their products
So end of history.....
or there are anything that i missing on this hitory?
ELBOX about SharkPPC, Sound and TV card drivers and Warp3D support : Comment 22 of 92ANN.lu
Posted by Thomas Frieden on 26-Jun-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (Patrick):
> This is only pre-release version!
>
> Hans-Joergen Frieden just posted on amiga.org:
> 'There is a pre-release on the CD, but that's strictly PPC only now, and
> doesn't yet use the Command Fifo. They're also quite unstable, really just
> to show off what is possible.'
So what ? I don't see any relevance.
ELBOX about SharkPPC, Sound and TV card drivers and Warp3D support : Comment 23 of 92ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Yoris/Hyperion on 26-Jun-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (Amifan):
>Or....can't you give a timeframe?
Drivers for DCE and Matay were done. Do you really think it can't be done for Elbox ?
My final word on this matter.
ELBOX about SharkPPC, Sound and TV card drivers and Warp3D support : Comment 24 of 92ANN.lu
Posted by Tinman on 26-Jun-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Darrin):
Yeah, I seen that, but I can restart in MSDOS mode, so I've already tanked through it and got the Thargoid ship :)
ELBOX about SharkPPC, Sound and TV card drivers and Warp3D support : Comment 25 of 92ANN.lu
Posted by Thomas Frieden on 26-Jun-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 21 (Francisco):
> i not the warp3d a integral part of AmigaOS 4.X?
> if yes, then warp3d drivers will run on mediator, prometheus, amigaone,
> pegasus,
Yes, Warp3D compatibility will be in OS4. But that won't make this run on OS3.9, resp. it will not run on hardware that doesn't work with OS4. The Mediator will only be able to be Zico compliant with the SharkPPC.
ELBOX about SharkPPC, Sound and TV card drivers and Warp3D support : Comment 26 of 92ANN.lu
Posted by Amifan on 26-Jun-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (Hans-Joerg Frieden):
Ho ho take it easy.....I'm not trying to insult anyone.
What i'm trying to say is that I can understand why Elbox has a carefull approach towards any compagnies and contract.
The clickboom issue was just an example of not trust anyone (by the way, the coder of Myst claimed that he was never payed, he provided some prove by a hidden textfile in the Myst executable) just because it's a compagny developing for the amiga market.....
I never said that one can't trust Hyperion, I just said that one has to be carefull in *business*.
I read the story about the technical issues and i'm not referring to what you once promised.
I'm just saying that the Elbox press departed statd a timeframe of being the only problem between signing a contract.
I didn't read any problem of "being first" or money...
So give them a timeframe and they can't deny a contract anymore, not towards you and not towards us, the Mediator owners....
They just have to......
So once again...I can understand Elbox, but if they got anything they want like their press department stated, they have to, otherwise just come out with an official statement like:
We did what they lied in our possibilities to convince Elbox of singing a contract about Warp3D V4 Voodoo3 driver for the Mediator Busboard. But unfortunally Elbox keeps throwing up new bariers while a previous barier was solved.
So we decided to end negotiation with Elbox because we think that this policy of Elbox is hurting our own business and the interest of our customers.
ELBOX about SharkPPC, Sound and TV card drivers and Warp3D support : Comment 27 of 92ANN.lu
Posted by Amifan on 26-Jun-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 26 (Amifan):
Oops, no I don't want Elbox to sing the contract for us.....signing is enough :)
ELBOX about SharkPPC, Sound and TV card drivers and Warp3D support : Comment 28 of 92ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 26-Jun-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (Amifan):
Well, you may well conclude that Elbox has dropped their condition to be the first company to have Warp3D Voodoo 3 drivers (which we obviously can't agree to) but they certainly have not informed us in any way of this.
We offered Elbox the same deal we offered DCE and Matay. The same contract, word for word.
DCE and Matay signed the contract, Elbox came up with silly conditions instead of thinking about the interests of their existing A1200 customers.
As Hans-Joerg Frieden correctly pointed out, a contract is binding on BOTH sides, not just Elbox.
This cannot be compared in any way to the CGX situation where no such contract existed.
We have demonstrated we can deliver 3D Voodoo 3 drivers.
There is absolutely no ground to doubt that we would not use "best efforts" to complete the drivers within a reasonable to be agreed upon timeframe.
Sadly, the discussion never went that far because we never got passed that "we want to be first on the market" condition imposed by Elbox.
ELBOX about SharkPPC, Sound and TV card drivers and Warp3D support : Comment 29 of 92ANN.lu
Posted by Alan Watson on 26-Jun-2001 22:00 GMT
Roll on the AmigaOne.Come on Elbox,get a grip.Why,did it take a
Mediator owner,asking you questions,to release info about the driver
status?Would it have caused any pain to release this info anyway?I
mean,do you know what PR is?It`s when the developers keep their
customers up to date with what is happening.After all,we did spend our
hard earned cash on your products.Now I know that this doesn`t give us
a right to have updates,but after all the emails from pissed off
Mediator owners on the Yahoo mailing list(me being one of them),surely
it wouldn`t have been to hard to chip in now and again,letting us know
what`s going on.And when you announce release dates in the
future,don`t say `2 weeks,honest`just to try and grab some
headlines,and then hide away for 6 months.All this does is cause bad
feelings between yourself and your current/potential customers.At
least try to be `realistic about it.
And for christ`s sake,stop being so CHILDISH!!Sort out the P96&W3D
carry on.Your only damaging your own sales and reputation with your
attitude.You were the first PCI board for the A1200 on the market.It
seems a bit ironic that you are going to be the last to get a `proper`
rtg license and 3d driver.Only you can answer why that`s not the case.
ELBOX about SharkPPC, Sound and TV card drivers and Warp3D support : Comment 30 of 92ANN.lu
Posted by Amifan on 26-Jun-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 28 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
But their latest clearification coming from their press department is a way to get past that point. Because they clearly state that the timeline is the problem....
Maybe they are convinced now that they just can't get their "first".
but..
If they keep dreaming about this matter, just reffer this last clearification.
And if they keeps insisting something that can't be realized then it's time to say: We'll quit any negotiations and future business we waited our time long enough. This gives us some clearification and it prevents potential Mediator customers for making the wrong choice.
ELBOX about SharkPPC, Sound and TV card drivers and Warp3D support : Comment 31 of 92ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 26-Jun-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 30 (Amifan):
I already pointed out time and again that users FIRST need to investigate availability of Warp3D drivers when that's an issue for them.
Elbox was actually pissed off about this because they considered somehow an endorsement of a competiting product.
We have been extremely patient with Elbox, trying to explain why it doesn't make sense to impose this "we want to be first condition", why this doesn't serve their A1200 customers etc.
The only thing they replied with was "we want to be first".
I think this happened about four times.
My last e-mail even went unanswered.
So yes, for all intents and purposes, if you are waiting for Warp3D drivers for the Mediator 1200, talk to Elbox and not us because we gave it our best shot.
ELBOX about SharkPPC, Sound and TV card drivers and Warp3D support : Comment 32 of 92ANN.lu
Posted by Amifan on 26-Jun-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 31 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
Then it's time to give Elbox a final warning and wait for their response...
If it's negative again then just close the doors.
Make an official statement that you and Elbox didn't come to an agreement.
That's it.
We finally know that there will be no Warp3D driver for the Mediator.
I've got the impression that Elbox want to hold the final discision back until AmigaOS4.0 arrives. And when it's there you'll get a final no and Elbox suggest everyone to buy a shark instad of an amigaone. And the whole story starts again....
If this is their way of doing business then they have face the fact that this behavior can't be tolerated......
ELBOX about SharkPPC, Sound and TV card drivers and Warp3D support : Comment 33 of 92ANN.lu
Posted by Alan Watson on 26-Jun-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 32 (Amifan):
I think that the Hyperion/W3D guys have been more than patient with Elbox,and so have the people that have bought their products.My advice to anyone planning on buying a Mediator is simply DONT!Save your cash and go for the AmigaOne instead when it`s released.The reason for this is that Elbox have nothing to do with it,which can only be a good thing.
ELBOX about SharkPPC, Sound and TV card drivers and Warp3D support : Comment 34 of 92ANN.lu
Posted by Karl Hamilton on 26-Jun-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 33 (Alan Watson):
Well these postings have put me off buying a Mediator... Is this childish behaviour going to prevent the release of other drivers as well?
ELBOX about SharkPPC, Sound and TV card drivers and Warp3D support : Comment 35 of 92ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Toner on 26-Jun-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (Alan Watson):
<I>I mean,do you know what PR is?</I>
I believe their "PR" history answers this quite well.
They haven't got a fargin' (cool word from the movie Johnny Dangerously)
clue what PR is.
ELBOX about SharkPPC, Sound and TV card drivers and Warp3D support : Comment 36 of 92ANN.lu
Posted by A3K on 26-Jun-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 35 (Bill Toner):
I agree... It makes me wanta take-uh their bells and-uh shove-uh dem up-uh dare ice hole.
I am not buying a Mediator 4000 (and tower kit) until this is resolved, and I had planned on purchasing one within a week or three.
ELBOX about SharkPPC, Sound and TV card drivers and Warp3D support : Comment 37 of 92ANN.lu
Posted by Lancelot Du Lac on 26-Jun-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 30 (Amifan):
> But their latest clearification coming from
> their press department is a way to get past
> that point. Because they clearly state that
> the timeline is the problem....
Woa now wait a minute here. Amifan, are you really that naive? Do you really think Elbox would issue a press release stating that "we haven't come to an agreement with Hyperion because we want our drivers released first and Hyperion refuse to break other contracts they already have with other companies."
Come on Amifan, you can't seriously think that this statement is them saying that their "drivers released first issue is no longer an issue, so please Hyperion, contact us again." No, if the issue was no longer an issue than why haven't they contacted Hyperion directly? I'll tell you why, because this B.S. statement is their way of trying to shift blame onto Hyperion in hopes that users will email Hyperion with enough hate mail to make Hyperion change their stance. The only problem with this is Elbox ain't got enough users of their product to make a difference. The Amiga market is so small right now, these B.S. tactics would never work for any company.
Elbox better get a clue before they are no more. I will say to Elbox that first the P96 problems and now this has definately lost them one potential customer. I will gladly wait for the official Amiga One then buy a product from a company with such a whiney "me first" attitude.
ELBOX about SharkPPC, Sound and TV card drivers and Warp3D support : Comment 38 of 92ANN.lu
Posted by Hans-Joerg Frieden on 26-Jun-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 30 (Amifan):
Their latest clarification coming from their press department was posted on a mailing list. I don't think it is asking too much to demand that we actually get this by personal mail.
The last mail we got still insisted on the first delivery for Mediator. The next thing we saw was this posting on their mailing list. Don't you think that they should have written a simple mail to us *personally* saying "ok, give us a timeframe and we'll sign the deal"?
This is my final word on the subject.
ELBOX about SharkPPC, Sound and TV card drivers and Warp3D support : Comment 39 of 92ANN.lu
Posted by Thomas Frieden on 26-Jun-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (Amifan):
> Now Elboxs pressdepartment says that timeframe is the only obstacle.....
> Money is not the problem, their "i wanna be first" is apparently not a
> problem anymore...
> Just give them a timeframe and they have no excuse anymore....
> Or....can't you give a timeframe?
I could give a timeframe, of course, but the problem is, *I HAVE NEVER BEEN ASKED FOR A TIMEFRAME*. No one was asking for a timeframe, and most of all, *NOBODY* told *US* that a timeframe is what prevents Elbox from signing. The first time this was mentioned was in this mail posted here. If they would have asked us, we would have told them. But they didn't.
ELBOX about SharkPPC, Sound and TV card drivers and Warp3D support : Comment 40 of 92ANN.lu
Posted by redrumloa on 26-Jun-2001 22:00 GMT
I am An A3000 owner and I will be getting a Prometheous.. Yippeeeee!!! I have no reason to get all worked up on this subject:-) Thank you Maytay!!!
ELBOX about SharkPPC, Sound and TV card drivers and Warp3D support : Comment 41 of 92ANN.lu
Posted by Ville Sarell on 27-Jun-2001 22:00 GMT
Damn mumbojumbo, I'm going to buy either Mediator or G-Rex in the next few weeks and I'm favouring Mediator at this point, BUT if Elbox are not going to to anything else than writing posts to their site explaining the simple situation in a complex style and there is no agreement with Hyperion (which really has the best reputation as a trustworthy company) I WILL be buying G-Rex instead. It's the support that counts. It's just sad that DCE seems to act in a foolish way on some cases too... I trust Hyperion, and it's not blind trust.
ELBOX about SharkPPC, Sound and TV card drivers and Warp3D support : Comment 42 of 92ANN.lu
Posted by Amifan on 27-Jun-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 37 (Lancelot Du Lac):
What I mean is that the truth is on the table now. They said to Hyperion that they want to be first but they say publically to us that it's only a timeline. Hyperion wrote the real problem is this case. Now we know everything (?), their little plan (speculation) of "let the user put some pressure on Hyperion" will fail.
So now it's Hyperions turn to say: Ah you stated "officially" that the timeline is the problem. Here's your damn timeline! Now sign or else we're stopping any negotiations with you in this business and future business......
It's a shame for us, mediator owners, but it's better then *waiting* for a not to arrive Warp3D driver.
ELBOX about SharkPPC, Sound and TV card drivers and Warp3D support : Comment 43 of 92ANN.lu
Posted by Amifan on 27-Jun-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 38 (Hans-Joerg Frieden):
Maybe it's their way of saying: damn, we lost, now let's tell Hyperion "publically" that we will agree instead of facing them directly, so we don't be laught at too much .......
You'll never know...
ELBOX about SharkPPC, Sound and TV card drivers and Warp3D support : Comment 44 of 92ANN.lu
Posted by Amifan on 27-Jun-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 39 (Thomas Frieden):
Argggggg!!! *sigh* There was that problem of the "I wanna we first". Just go to them for the last time with something like: we read that you wanted a timeline, so here it is, will you sign now?
Don't forget that they live in Poland, a completely different culture then in here in western Europe. It can be their way of, OK, we didn't get what we demanded, being first, but we're interested anyway. We don't wanna loose our faces in front of the whole amiga community so please contact us and give us *please* a timeframe, so we can sign the deal and be happy....
OK maybe this is not the case and just want to make Hyperion appear as the bad guys...then just stop the negotiations. One way or another, the way like it's done know didn't work because of the "i wanna be first obstacle".
All I'm trying to say that it's time to enter the next round. This press release of them is a new oppertunity. If this doesn't work, then bad luck Elbox but we won't do business with you anymore because there can be done any business with you....
ELBOX about SharkPPC, Sound and TV card drivers and Warp3D support : Comment 45 of 92ANN.lu
Posted by Amifan on 27-Jun-2001 22:00 GMT
I think that there's some kind of language barrier here: So let get this straight
1) I'm NOT on Elbox side
2) I think this B.S. has lasted lonmg enough and that it's time to enter the final round in the negotiations with Elbox
3) Elbox said that that only the timeline is a problem (don't care if they are telling the truth or not)
4) Offer them a limeline
5) If Elbox keep demanding their " I wanna be first" then end this silly B.S. because you can't come to an agreement
6) OK so there are only looser in this case:
-Hyperion, because they need as much warp3D supported PCI busboard to create a sufficient large market for their games.
-Elbox, because they loose all 3D lovers as their customers
- And finally the mediator user, like me, who brought this busboard for playing fast 3D accelerated game.
But if this is the only way, then it's sad but it's just the way it is.
But it's better to know what will come (or not) instead of waiting and waiting for something that will never exsist.
Now don't say that you've never be asked to give a timeline, because that doesn't matter. Offer them a timeline and see what happens.
ELBOX about SharkPPC, Sound and TV card drivers and Warp3D support : Comment 46 of 92ANN.lu
Posted by Steffen Haeuser on 27-Jun-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 44 (Amifan):
Hi!
>Don't forget that they live in Poland, a completely different culture then in
Matay are also living in Poland. With them an agreement was found in - let;s see, how long did it take, 5 minutes ?
Steffen
ELBOX about SharkPPC, Sound and TV card drivers and Warp3D support : Comment 47 of 92ANN.lu
Posted by Amifan on 27-Jun-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 46 (Steffen Haeuser):
And how long are they in business?
Let's see, 5 months?
ELBOX about SharkPPC, Sound and TV card drivers and Warp3D support : Comment 48 of 92ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 27-Jun-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 47 (Amifan):
I actually did e-mail Elbox yesterday and referred to the post by Darek Dulian that the timeframe issue would be the only obstacle.
Guess what: no reply from Elbox.
ELBOX about SharkPPC, Sound and TV card drivers and Warp3D support : Comment 49 of 92ANN.lu
Posted by Torsk on 27-Jun-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 47 (Amifan):
And how is that relevant? The point was that Elbox would not come to an agreement with the Warp3D-team because they're polish. Well, so are Matay. What does it matter if Matay will disappear in 5 months? They're not any less polish than Elbox even if that happens.
ELBOX about SharkPPC, Sound and TV card drivers and Warp3D support : Comment 50 of 92ANN.lu
Posted by Thomas Frieden on 27-Jun-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 44 (Amifan):
Matay is also a polish company, but we have no problems toalking to them.
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