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[Rant] HP bound to quit PA-RISC CPU lineANN.lu
Posted on 30-Aug-2001 06:25 GMT by Christian Kemp17 comments
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Solar (BAUD) wrote: The PIV message posted earlier initiated some interesting comments, so I think this one can be just as interesting: HP dropping PA-RISC in favour of IA64 by 2004. From www.heise.de:
"Continuing development of the RISC CPUs keeps getting more and more difficult and expensive, while Itanium is just beginning it´s lifetime cycle", Brown [Market Communications Manager HP] backs up the HP decission. Moreover, so Brown, Itanium systems will get cheaper simply because of higher production numbers, as opposed to house-made PA-RISCs.
HP bound to quit PA-RISC CPU line : Comment 1 of 17ANN.lu
Posted by m0ns00n on 29-Aug-2001 22:00 GMT
I think it becomes more and more obvious that the RISC roadmap is getting darker and darker. I don't think it will be a viable road to launch the new Amiga platform on. X86 should at least be a plan B. And we have by now read so much about the BeOS history that it should be clear to anyone that Be didn't fall because of the x86 platform. Now, let us see Amiathlon grow to a mature product with OS 4.x sometime in the future!
HP bound to quit PA-RISC CPU line : Comment 2 of 17ANN.lu
Posted by Solar (BAUD) on 29-Aug-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (m0ns00n):
Amithlon? Naa... It´s an "intermediate", just like UAE is but for a slightly different target market. It´s about running the "Classic" stuff until the "new" stuff finally becomes available. (And no, I don´t think native x86 plugins should be supported by Amithlon, because developers might lose their focus on OS 4/5 and instead create yet another spin-off. A real fast 68k emulation should be enough until OS 5.)
OS development is done on the OS 4/5 road. Amithlon cannot go there, and I think that´s A Good Thing (tm) because people won´t be lured into seeing Amithlon as a seperate development.
What troubles me, though, is the lack of any clear commitment from Amiga Inc. regarding a hardware independant, PPC/x86 supporting, desktop OS 5. They keep telling about the AmigaDE running everywhere, and AmigaOS 4/5 being the perfect host, but I want to replace Windows and Linux on my box with AmigaOS, and while Gary said this would be possible a while back, he´s a little more hesistant today.
Ah, well.
HP bound to quit PA-RISC CPU line : Comment 3 of 17ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 29-Aug-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Solar (BAUD)):
>but I want to replace Windows and Linux on my box with AmigaOS
Does your x86 have a full 64bit CPU?
No?
Then you will not be able to run OS5, sorry.
HP bound to quit PA-RISC CPU line : Comment 4 of 17ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 29-Aug-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (m0ns00n):
The roadmap for RISC is becoming darker?
I'm sorry but you misinterpret completely. HP decided to ditch its own CPU line because they can't keep up with the competition, it's too expensive to develop it and foremost because they played a pivotal role in the development of IA64.
HP bound to quit PA-RISC CPU line : Comment 5 of 17ANN.lu
Posted by Solar (BAUD) on 29-Aug-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (priest):
That 64bit stuff again... (That´s not officially confirmed yet, but I´ll bite nonetheless.)
>>but I want to replace Windows and Linux on my box with AmigaOS
> Does your x86 have a full 64bit CPU?
> No?
> Then you will not be able to run OS5, sorry.
My x86 CPU isn´t 64bit anymore than the CPU in your not-even-yet-available AmigaOne, so you won´t be able to run OS 5 either.
And, if OS 5 is really limited to 64bit CPUs, then forget the whole story. AmigaOS won´t see significant sales that way, and without sales, no market potential, no development, no software, no Amiga Inc., bye-bye.
About 95% of all desktop systems today are x86. Of the remaining 5%, over 50% are 32bit. So you can sell your pretty 64bit OS 5 only to those people that are buying new hardware alongside with it, and a measly percentage of those 2.5% that have a 64bit desktop system.
Where a desktop system goes that has a user base of, say, < 500,000, we have seen in the last five or six years.
You are bragging about 64bit like it´s a good thing. It´s not. It would be about the stupiest move I´ve ever seen any Amiga company make, even more so than the A600 or the A2200.
HP bound to quit PA-RISC CPU line : Comment 6 of 17ANN.lu
Posted by Gothic on 29-Aug-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (Solar (BAUD)):
When you compare the 32 bits implementation in the 68k line of CPUs with the x86, it's obvious that motorolla had a vision for the future : we didn't need to have a complete new os to run 32bits apps.
Once again, on the x86, to be 64bits compliant, they have to restart everything from scratch, while on the other hand look at the 64 bits implementation on the powerpc line : nothing to compare to your x86 again.
I really don't care if 95% percent of desktop are running x86 : the majority of people beleived Copernic when he stated that the sun was rotating arount the Earth.
The same applies to all the crap you can find in your music shops :most of it that sells are simply just boring or remixes of the past : all the major innovation in music and the most interesting stuff is done by people who don't sell much. I'd rather enjoy a good symphonic orchestra or metal band that write original stuff than a bunch of faggots who can't even get their playback right.
Music, computers, and all other domains : the fight is not other : ditch the crap.
Gothic.
HP bound to quit PA-RISC CPU line : Comment 7 of 17ANN.lu
Posted by Karl Hamilton on 29-Aug-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (Solar (BAUD)):
Whats the A2200?
HP bound to quit PA-RISC CPU line : Comment 8 of 17ANN.lu
Posted by m0ns00n on 29-Aug-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (Karl Hamilton):
The machine Commodore UK was developing, with David Pleasence and Colin Proudfoot in the front.. Was going to be A2200A and A2200B. I actually loved the idea when it was annouced :-) 040 and 030 as standard. 8megs of ram. Cdrom etcetc.. Amiga supercomputer for the time, and cheap :-D With a new chipset too.
HP bound to quit PA-RISC CPU line : Comment 9 of 17ANN.lu
Posted by Amifan on 29-Aug-2001 22:00 GMT
Commodore intended to use the HP PA cpu for their next systems. They wanted to move away from x86 too, unfortunatly.......well you know :)
HP bound to quit PA-RISC CPU line : Comment 10 of 17ANN.lu
Posted by Solar (BAUD) on 29-Aug-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Gothic):
You missed one point though: People creating music can continue to do so even if they don´t sell well. When writing software, the quality of the resulting factor is a function of the quality of the coders at work - and high quality coders (usually) get high quality payments, which can only be sustained if the software *sells*.
To put it short: Low quantity sales might not stop the music from being good, but they sure as hell put a software company out of business real quick.
HP bound to quit PA-RISC CPU line : Comment 11 of 17ANN.lu
Posted by Solar (BAUD) on 29-Aug-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (m0ns00n):
The A2200 was such a bad design that all Commodore subsidiaries (UK, Germany etc.) refused to sell/support it, so the design was scrapped altogether. Perhaps the only occassion when Commodore HQ listened to what other people were saying.
HP bound to quit PA-RISC CPU line : Comment 12 of 17ANN.lu
Posted by Nick on 29-Aug-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Gothic):
"Once again, on the x86, to be 64bits compliant, they have to restart everything from scratch, while on the other
hand look at the 64 bits implementation on the powerpc line : nothing to compare to your x86 again."
Have you heard of AMD's Hammer processors?
HP bound to quit PA-RISC CPU line : Comment 13 of 17ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 30-Aug-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (Solar (BAUD)):
"By 2010 there will be no more 32bit desktop CPUs" ;-)
HP bound to quit PA-RISC CPU line : Comment 14 of 17ANN.lu
Posted by Solar (BAUD) on 30-Aug-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (Nick):
Yes, they run 32bit and 64bit code mixed - but for your code to make use of 64bit, it has to be written / compiled 64bit. So what?
HP bound to quit PA-RISC CPU line : Comment 15 of 17ANN.lu
Posted by Solar (BAUD) on 30-Aug-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (Anonymous):
"By 2010 there won´t be any 32bit desktop CPU´s". How about "By 2010 there won´t be any Amiga desktop OS"?
HP bound to quit PA-RISC CPU line : Comment 16 of 17ANN.lu
Posted by Tronman on 31-Aug-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (m0ns00n):
Any OS that isn't Windows failed on x86 because of Microsoft. In the private licence agreement signed by every hardware vendor (not that fakey thing you pretend to read when installing Windows), it is clearly and in no uncertain terms stated that you as a hardware vendor are NOT ALLOWED in ANY WAY to place ANY OTHER OS on any HD on which Windows will be installed and sold to a customer by you as the vendor. And when your OS is on 90+ percent of the computers and a vendor can be killed instantly by you yanking their right to sell said OS because they do something you don't like, well, that's where the abuse of a monopoly starts, and where the US gov't really missed the boat. That's what Gassee (sp?) said recently, and he's dead right.
That's why BeOS failed, and no vendors offer a dual-boot system with Linux or BeOS, even though market research shows that customers would love to have that choice. It is technically trivial to provide that choice, but we all know how M$ feels about competition of any kind.
HP bound to quit PA-RISC CPU line : Comment 17 of 17ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 31-Aug-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 9 (Amifan):
>Commodore intended to use the HP PA cpu for their next systems. They wanted to >move away from x86 too, unfortunatly.......well you know :)
Actually, Commodore planned to build a Windows NT box based on the PA CPU and call it "Amiga". I think that warrents more screaming from the xenophobes than AmigaOS/x86!
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