08-Dec-2016 18:06 GMT.
UNDER CONSTRUCTION
Anonymous, there are 233 items in your selection [1 - 50] [51 - 100] [101 - 150] [151 - 200] [201 - 233]
[Forum] "party on:-)" (R.S.)ANN.lu
Posted on 02-Oct-2001 19:56 GMT by Martin Heine233 comments
View flat
View list
(Before someone again complains that I'm sharing my opinion "everywhere": I just decided to paste here what I wrote in comp.sys.amiga.misc because of Christian's call for articles.)
The article contains quick and dirty translations of comments made yesterday and today by Mr. Haage and Ralph Schmidt at amiga-news.de, since I thought non-german-speakers might be interested in this, too. Newsgroup-article #1:


To try to compensate at least a little bit the advantages of those Amigans who speak German (and therefore often get easier to rumours, facts, etc., because of the importance of german companies and individuals for the Amiga-market), I thought it might be useful to translate a few statements made at amiga-news.de today.

While Eyetech and H&P accuse each other for the A1/AOS4-delays (one says the hardware is missing, one says the OS4 is missing), Mr. Haage made (among others) the following comments (no warranty for the translation!):


[Mr. Haage (H) comments some rumours (R)]

H: "The interest in OS4.0 we have NEVER lost. But we've never been and are not convinced of the profitability of the project if the concepts won't be changed."

R: "They (H&P) are just the executing organ, all decisions are made by Amiga Inc."

H: "Correct. [...]"

R: "Amiga Inc. displays regarding Communication with their partners "certain" deficits."

H: "Deficits is nicely said. But it's correct!"

R: "Failing to come / insufficient payments from Amiga Inc."

H: "Before payments could be made, contracts have to be made. That far, however, we aren't yet. Regarding which I clearly want to emphasize that WE do not delay."

[...]

H: "To be able to be partners to an agreement, one needs contracts - and that is not Amiga Inc.'s strong point."


[Another comment from Mr. Haage]

R: "Is the date told by Alan Redhouse [Eyetech] for the completion of OS4.0 ("november, but probably not the 1st") possible in your opinion?"

H: "Only if it would be right now possible to work towards that date. But the conditions for this don't exist. Maybe a wonder happens, but I don't expect it."


No wonder that those like me, who've been suspicious regarding AI in favour of MorphOS/Pegasos for some time already, unfortunately feel confirmed more and more. Also no wonder that Ralph Schmidt is enjoying this soap opera from AI, H&P and Eyetech, his first comment has been the one quoted as the subject: "party on:-)".


So, after translating Mr. Haage's point of view, I'll also think I should quote from one of Ralph's comments, too. He (RS) answers to a comment by Mr. Haage (JH):

JH: "In an exclusive x86 AmigaOS version we aren't interested."

RS: "No? :-) Do you think we don't get what you proposed internally already in August? :-)"

[...]

RS: "As you've been also told already by a person from Amiga Inc. some monthes ago... you have no future as Amiga OS vendor."


My personal guess is that the main problem seems to be Amiga Inc., i.e. especially their lack of money. So after them already given up on their plans regarding DE being their future OS many monthes ago, it seems their plan to survive as a content vendor for PDAs seems to be not that successful, too (Alan Redhouse, too, does confirm in his statement that AI still has the already known financial problems). If companies like H&P do speak that way about AI already in the public as Mr. Haage did today at amiga-news.de (I just translated a little bit of it), I exprect the worst regarding AI's future.

Therefore it really seems the Amiga-market's future might be just those two ones Ralph outlined: an emulation-based x86 one by H&P and the PPC one covered by MorphOS.



-----8<--------

Newsgroup-article #2:

Some "second helping" - the "party" goes on:

(Again no warranty for the 'quick and dirty' translation.)


Michael Garlich (Titan Computer) in reply to Mr. Haage:

"You should restrain yourself on your statements against Mr. Schmidt! Only you are to blame for the current situation - if you had actually shown your much propagated readiness for cooperation last year in september, it would not have been come that far. Despite all adverse things Mr. Schmidt contrary to you had been willing to cooperate under leadership of Amiga Inc. !!!"


And another reply by Ralph to Mr. Haage:

"[...] You operate on other levels which the normal user doesn't notice. (dealers, influence on Amiga Inc., threats with licences, internal mailing lists, influence on a certain person and a certain company)"



-----8<--------

Newsgroup-article #3:

I think balance requires me to continue the translation at least one more time, i.e. especially regarding the repeated offer below by Mr. Haage to try to come to a cooperation. Of course everyone draws his own conclusions, H&P-fans may say "didn't I tell you, just Ralph is the bad guy" (although there's on the other hand the, today repeated, version by for example Mr. Garlich who said that Mr. Haage would have prevented exactly this last year), while the other side may say he's just lying or trying another trick. My personal conclusion is that Mr. Haage may just get cold feet because of the apparently very bad financial situation at AI and its consequences for another Amiga-PPC-future besides MorphOS.

Well, here again some quick and dirty translations from the very same thread of comments at amiga-news.de as before; again, no warranty.


1. Mr. Haage:

He suggests to accept an invitation made partly humorously by amiga-news.de's Petra Struck to Mr. Haage and Ralph to meet at her home for a dinner and try to come to an agreement.

(But Ralph did already say in a comment before he'd never again cooperate with Mr. Haage, because of the well-known history and because H&P would just have nothing to offer that would be of interest for the bplan/Morphos-crew. (Although I think Ralph underestimates the value of "the name", but on the other hand I don't know how much, if any, influence H&P has regarding this.))


2. Ralph:

(It has been said before that by saying H&P (and Hyperion) would have nothing to offer the MorphOS-team could be interested in, they would cut out "StormC4, Arteffect, Genesis, Olsen's TCP/IP Stack, OS 3.9 licences" and Hyperion's products.)

" 1) We have with the PPC-MorphOS-GCC our own development system, [...].
2) I wouldn't know what's that unique with ArtEffect. [...]
3) Genesis is a GUI surface and the TCP/IP stack belongs to Tomi Ollila, which we do also have as a PPC version.
4) Olsen's TCP/IP stack is controlled by Olsen and nobody else. And we do have a *very* good relationship with Olaf.
5) Amiga users do already own 3.1, 3.5 or 3.9 and it's left up to them of they continue to use it until a completely new WB exists.
6) MorphOS as AmigaOS 4.x was massively opposed by Hyperion since november 2000 and in summer it was said that they'd never would be porting Warp3d to MorphOS, when Amiga Inc. suggested them this. This decision is left up to them for what they want to develop something... The consequence is just that they don't play any role in our plans. Therefore we plan an own 3D solution. Warp3d is only that long important as new games support it.
[...]
9) As I said already... H&P are free to offer their applications for MorphOS also. *We* won't hinder anyone from developing applications for MorphOS. SDKs from us always will be free.
10) With Papyrus we'll have a real office-package with word-processor."


3. Mr. Haage:

Replying to the comment by Mr. Garlich (see earlier in this thread), Mr. Haage says he wouldn't know about what Mr. Garlich would be speaking.


4. Ralph:

(He was asked if Nova Design or Paul Nolan would have announced support for MorphOS already.)

"We have also spoken with Kermit Woodal several times. Since he's also closely related with Merlancia, there are certainly possibilities. :-) Paul Nolan does have a key and a development system since last year... [...]"
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 1 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by gz (193.229.255.17) on 01-Oct-2001 22:00 GMT
This just strengthens what I have been fearing/speculating for some
time now... That h&p and AI do have a serious problem in their hands
and are lacking the funds and needed capabilities to produce what they
have hyped they would produce in the timescale offered to the public.

H&P is a small company and doesent have big programming staff. The
same goes with AI. Therefore it seems more like utopia for them to be
able to produce compelling new OS which would be so great it would be
actually worth of changing platforms or to even buy new and
expensive hardware/software from an user point of view.

If the amiga os will stay as an os just for die hard amiga freaks, the
markets will be too small to sustain any widespread development for
future, which would slowly but effectively kill the amiga platform.

This is exactly why I (only saying this from a personal point of view)
welcome projects like morphos/pegasos because they are a way of
keeping our amiga somehow alive even if everything else would fail.

I know a lot of people see this vice versa by splitting the community
into two/stealing buyers from AI/eyetech, but one should keep in mind
that none of these products are available ready for the public and as
long as one can't rush to a store and actually buy them, they will not
split the community nor will they steal any customers from other
companies. Therefore they will remain as a welcome backup for possible
bad and rainy days in the future.

Also I think that other opportunities for users keep companies
developing and refining their products into better because there is
competition in the market stopping AI becoming the microsoft of the
amiga platform (and believe me that would happen during a loooong
period of time if no competition for AI would not
exist)
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 2 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Hoggett (213.123.48.185) on 01-Oct-2001 22:00 GMT
Frankly, none of this comes as a surprise.

The major players in this tragic soap opera, and one or two not mentioned there, remind me of a pack of vultures fighting over the body of some unfortunate animal not quite dead yet.

None of them seem to have any comprehension of the concept of "cooperation", and display a level of arrogance only normally seen from far more competent and successful enterprises.
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 3 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by Ralph Schmidt (62.225.236.78) on 02-Oct-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Bill Hoggett):
Bill, wie *cooperate* with several companies and also independentdevelopers but all these have a common goal.We don't cooperate with companies which have opposing goals.It`s that simple and should be common sense.
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 4 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by Joe "Floid" Kanowitz (64.24.64.150) on 02-Oct-2001 22:00 GMT
The carcass analogy is a bit apt. Hopefully, the parties involved can see why; while AInc's execution is flawed, the initial vision was a good one. OSes are a dime a dozen these days. Interoperability is at once a lost cause and a holy grail; the DE was (and may be) an opportunity to do it right. Unfortunately, things have gone sideways. There's no big news from Tao, heralding a protected VP system. OS4.x is held up to fill in the gap, a move that makes some sense. OS5 is repositioned to presume/admit that Tao won't have any such thing ready by then, and everything's gone weird.

Meanwhile, MorphOS is out there, another project which, to my understanding, is meant to provide a native PPC environment, with protected mode and backwards-compatibility. AROS comes up again, 'researching' whatever it is that they're 'researching' (API compatibility, with the option of cross-compiling?); Everyone and their cousin starts selling a PCI solution for the Classic. Suddenly, Amithlon and AmigaOS XL appear, one from Bill Hoggett (hope I've got the name right, and spelled it right), with Amiga Inc.'s sanction, and the other backed by H&P- and H&P also acts as a dealer for both?

Ralph, having his own suspicions/predictions, and his own product, chooses to cast doubt on the other developments. H&P chooses to cast doubt on AInc (which, to my understanding, was leaning away from H&P in OS4.x development)... AInc. can't seem to form a coherent sentence to anyone, though some, like myself, can cross fingers and hope this means OS4.x is frantically coming together.

The financial climate goes (further) to hell in the meantime.

Gateway pops back up, presumably still holding the patents to the custom chips. One has to wonder how useful these are- who has defended them in Commodore's absence? They might prove a Rambus-level bargaining stick, however, requiring royalties from Amiga-related companies (as well as being a carrot in a buyout, as some suggest)...

From my position, I'll be honest- I'd like everyone to justify their existence. "Cooperation" in the general sense won't occur, and there are logical reasons- everyone's an independent company, offering a competing product. However, all the squabbling does is further erode the market. The average consumer, both within and outside of the market, is waiting for anything worth paying for- Amithlon and OS XL are priced right for those needing backwards-compatibility, but there're those out there who just want a computer done right, preferrably one with a slight chance of a future.

So, to these consumers, what's everyone's mission statement? Who is willing to let the DE on-board, should it ever become a reality? Who's supporting what hardware? Is H&P hoping to slide into the role of an applications vendor for QNX? Are they just hoping to make a profit, at this point? MorphOS offers another option for those seeking backwards-compatibility (as far as I understand its existence); is the team only ambivalent to AInc's plans, or actively against them? [In all honesty, MorphOS seems to me another OS/2 or Be; another in a history of well-architected systems that just won't attract sufficient attention..]

Personally, I just want a handheld that can replace my desktop, and a desktop with some compelling media tools (and enough momentum to either attract the big names, or create new ones)... I don't want Apple or MS to get my cash, Symbian isn't quite there on the PDA front, and NetBSD seems a bit clunky for portable hardware. So, it's nice that everyone can moan and argue, but everyone looking to spend money just wants to know what you plan to do for _them._

...and, of course, the one rule of Rose-Hulman's Operation Catapult (an engineering camp I attended, a few years back) comes to mind- "Don't do stupid stuff." If you have a feasible idea and a viable product, you won't *have* to run around covering your ass.

*sigh* - I'm going back to following the *BSD front, and trying to scrape up enough skills for a network administration job. I'll probably surface in the Phoenix/QNX scene begging for tech support, if I ever get a monitor to lash to my latest attempt-at-QNX box. Someone give me a poke if anything happens, or fails to happen, in November.
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 5 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Hoggett (213.123.49.251) on 02-Oct-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (Joe "Floid" Kanowitz):
>Meanwhile, MorphOS is out there, another project which, to my understanding,
>is meant to provide a native PPC environment, with protected mode and
>backwards-compatibility. AROS comes up again, 'researching' whatever it is
>that they're 'researching' (API compatibility, with the option of cross-
>compiling?); Everyone and their cousin starts selling a PCI solution for the
>Classic. Suddenly, Amithlon and AmigaOS XL appear, one from Bill Hoggett (hope
>I've got the name right, and spelled it right), with Amiga Inc.'s sanction,
>and the other backed by H&P- and H&P also acts as a dealer for both?

Whoops, seems like keeping a visible profile on the various boards has led to a bit of confusion:

You did get my name right, but I am in no way responsible for the creation of Amithlon. That is a product from Harald Frank of VMC and Bernd Meyer, and although presented by Amiga Inc at AmiWest, it is now published as part of Haage & Partner's AmigaOS XL package, apparently with no more endorsement from Amiga Inc than the granting of a Kickstart ROM license.

I am not connected with the product beyond the role of voluntary tester.
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 6 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Hoggett (213.123.49.251) on 02-Oct-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (Ralph Schmidt):
Thank you for confirming every word I posted, and proving that you just don't "get it".
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 7 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by Amifan (212.206.177.174) on 02-Oct-2001 22:00 GMT
No matter what the financial state of AI might be, the question now rises if we have an option left. Some people will go away from the amiga and jump to another platform (MorphOS). But most of them will continue to use 3.x. You can count on that.

The financiasl situation in the world catches AI too. Not a big suprise to me. Vendors in the USA are not willing to make investment now.
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 8 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Yoris/Hyperion (62.23.78.241) on 02-Oct-2001 22:00 GMT
Is it possible that we let the people work on their own side and see when the result is here ?

Is it possible to stop all this war, which has for result to make some more people leave the Amiga ?

Is it possible to behave as normal guys at least for a few months, and talk when products are available ? So far no AmigaOne available, no OS 4.0, only a time limited demo of Morphos, no Pegasos available.

I don't think our customers and other Amiga people are interested in "who said this or that". This is so stupid.

Let's remember the aim : make the Amiga a viable market. This is not with this kind of posts, rumours, private chats gone public that the situation will be better.

Yes Amiga Inc. have some money problem, so have H&P, Bplan, Hyperion, IBM, Microsoft, myself etc... This is of no interest to know that.

The real interest is to do something, release it, regiving hope to Amiga people and a reason to stay.

Stop the disaster, please.

Ben Yoris
PR Manager Hyperion Entertainment
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 9 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by Samface (131.116.254.197) on 02-Oct-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (Ben Yoris/Hyperion):
Yes Mr. Yoris! That was the words of a wise man! :-)

I suggest everyone involved listens to those words carefully, especially Mr. Lair(e). ;-)
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 10 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion Entertainment (134.58.253.115) on 02-Oct-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 9 (Samface):
I'm getting a bit tired of these baseless accusations that Hyperion is responsible for stopping Amiga working with the MorphOS team.

Negotations between Amiga and MorphOS have been running for close to a year now.

The fact that they broke down (did they?), cannot be blamed on us.

Sure, we had some concerns and we still do about MorphOS.

1) MorphOS is tied to bPlan at the hip. Ralph Schmidt is a partner in bPlan.

This creates a very obvious conflict of interest because other hardware vendors like Eyetech or Elbox would naturally be very worried that they would not be receiving the same software support than bPlan.

You can't blame them for not wanting to place themselves at the mercy of a competitor.

2) The MorphOS team has repeatedly expressed little interest in games and everything connected with them: 3D, virtual memory etc.

You can't blame us, a games producer, for being worried about that.
This is the last I'm going to say about this.
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 11 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by Kelli217 (170.141.175.183) on 02-Oct-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion Entertainment):
"You can't blame us."

What is the problem? Can any Amiga company simply stay quiet until they have something substantial to say? Of course not -- the users insist on daily updates so they can be comforted in their doubts that work is proceeding. So the companies have to say *something*. So then they sometimes say things about their relationships with other Amiga companies.

Sometimes these relationships are productive. Sometimes they are antagonistic. It's understandable, because there are several different paths to take. People will not always agree on the best way to go.

The problem is that these disagreements become the focus of the discussion, as users latch on to the conflict and exaggerate it.

I could simply say "Let Amiga Inc lead," but if Amiga does not want to pursue a particular direction, the proponents of that direction have every right to continue on their own. (Of course, they must respect the origins of the source code on which their projects are based.) It makes no difference whether the heirs to the Amiga name, and technology licenses, are in good or bad financial shape. An independent company, pursuing their own direction, has no direct relation to Amiga Inc. The success or failure of Amiga Inc is irrelevant to their own success or failure. They are, after all, independent.

Never mind that yet another failure of an Amiga-branded company would further marginalize the platform and any development based on it. Never mind that pulling together might actually be of some help. They are independent companies, and so they are entitled to pull in any direction they choose.

Yes, by all means, let us take the small Amiga user base and force them to choose among several opposing courses of action, and let the marketplace sort them out. After all, the only concern to an independent comany is whether their *own* product is successful.

And of course, none of these companies owe anything to having access to actual AmigaOS source code, provided openly or covertly, so they have no moral obligation to the current owners of the Amiga name and holders of licenses to Amiga patents. They are, after all, independent companies.

(I'm sorry, that last paragraph may have been unclear. Let's pose a hypothetical situation. If, say, Petro Tystchenko had provided Ralph Schmidt with access to AmigaOS source files, on a covert basis, and that access had contributed significantly to the success of MorphOS, then Ralph would have a moral obligation to Amiga because it was their source code which helped him. This is above and beyond any legal ramifications. DON'T GET UPSET -- THIS IS ONLY A HYPOTHETICAL SITUATION! Petro did *not* give Ralph a copy of AmigaOS source code. Amiga Technologies GmBH *did* legally, and openly, give H&P access to that code, in order to build 3.5, though, and that relationship was carried over to Amiga Inc with 3.9. I understand that H&P wants to get paid for their work. Can we agree that the *moral* obligation of H&P to Amiga Inc, separate from the financial obligations of Amiga Inc to H&P, should prevent them from airing their grievances in a public forum?)

Yes, all these independent companies have every right, in a free market, to pursue whatever course of action they feel will best lead to success for themselves and their investors. The long-term effects of their actions on the user base are of no consequence -- it is only important what the bottom line is for *this* year. Never mind that the fragmentation of the user base and continued public mutual corporate antagonism will contribute to decreased opportunities for success in the future for *ALL* Amiga companies. After all, they are all independent companies, and can pursue other avenues, once they have milked everything they can from supporting Amiga technology.

[Apologies to Shakespeare.]
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 12 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by Ralph Schmidt (193.159.69.168) on 02-Oct-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Bill Hoggett):
@BillSure i got your point but i simply don't share your opinionabout this.
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 13 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by Ralph Schmidt (193.159.69.168) on 02-Oct-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion Entertainment):
Ben Hermans(to the sensible Readers)This text contains straight paragraphs which may annoysensible amiga users. I chose to be as direct as possibleso avoid to blame the messenger:-)I don`t even have to revive your "hobby developer" tale which youspreaded here annonymous, by fax(which someone still has) andby email on the internal 4.0 ml early this year to avoid MorphOSand help your "partners" H&P to stop the thread of MorphOS as 4.0.All that is history and helped me to build a profile about yourpersonality but this isn`t what i talked about...We heard through our channels and also *key* Amiga Inc.developers knew about it, that Hyperion would never portWarp3d to MorphOS...that happened in the summer.Look..i'm not angry about this. It`s completely up to youwhat you do with your projects but the conclusion we drawout of this is, that *we* plan without you and what itshowed beyond...that AInc unfortunately doesn`t have thepower to control and lead an OS project.Ironicly we even came to the same conclusion H&P revealedon Monday so nobody can blame us now that *we* discussedthe issues *first* publicly...it were their officialpartners which stabbed them into the back.And even if we would have VM or not in our final productit wouldn't change a yota about your standing...VM was*NEVER* an issue until suddenly in May in your lobbyingactivities at Amiga Inc.P.S. Now somebody may ask why i discussed this ? Because somebody blamed us on www.amiga-news.de for not cooperating with Hyperion while the reality is that they have no interest anyway...so that's why we don't bother about them.About your arguments about other HW....What we`ve always told Amiga Inc....we have no problemto support other HW *after* the OS is *done* on the HWwe develop it on. It`s complete nuts to try to developan OS on several different HW bases while the OS itselfhasn't matured yet. Nobody has these resources in thismarket so a focus *is* necessary.But these arguments don`t reach salesmen which may seea potential risc to their *virtual* products while theyhave no clue about development requirements and timeplans.As we have enough of the behind the scenes kindergartenbullshit about seeking the smallest common politicalinterests coalitions while it was forgotten that*developing* the OS *and* HW is the most importantthing here.That`s why we solely concentrate on our project whichwe will realize with our *partners* and let others playtheir WB Licence,Name,Rom and Control war in the amigasnakespit.And that`s why "Party On:-)" perfectly fits on the situationwhich was expected for months but finally outbroke inthe public.Party On:-))
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 14 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by smith_rouelle (62.31.171.34) on 02-Oct-2001 22:00 GMT
Listening to the finger-pointing and bickering that appears to already be going on it seems that AmigaOS 4/AmigaOne has already failed? I was under the impression that November was the date where we could make our judgements. But as H&P and Amiga Inc. have already started, and the general tone of those "in-power" seems to be downbeat, I'll add in my own belief of what is going to happen in the future.

Those who have for so long blindly been following the 'official' brand,
probably won't like this, but how long can Amiga Inc stay solvent? Say, within the next 3 months Amiga Inc aren't around any more - the AmigaOS source, trademarks, etc.. will sit in a Gateway safe facing oblivion and nobody will have the means or interest to buy them.

But rather than dismiss this situation as the end, it could actually be quite the opposite. Firstly, the Amiga community will be rid of its worst feature - the brand identity. No more fanatical brand-name following, no more obsessive users painting their faces with Boing-ball colours. No longer will the messanger obscure the message. Amiga users will have to actually look beyond the name and to the new products that are coming.

What products will we have in a post-Amiga Inc. world? There are two quality AmigaOS-like operating systems, both in a fairly advanced stage of development, both sharing code and co-operating with each other. And both directed by a group of dedicated Amiga developers who seem to have a 'can-do' approach.

The future looks bright, and I couldn't care less that it isn't wrapped in boing balls, ticks, or "AMIGA" lettering.
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 15 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by David Scheibler (217.80.225.169) on 02-Oct-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (Ralph Schmidt):
Did you want Hyperion to port Warp3D to MorphOS? I mean Sam Jordan is
one of the developers of Warp3D so it's very unrealistic to believe
that Hyperion will port Warp3D to MorphOS and I don't think that you
will work together with "Mr. WarpOS", right?

But AFAIK the Friedens emailed Frank Mariak about some problems
with the WarpOS emulation and Warp3DPPC and offered him to fix these
problems, but never got any reply. Why? Of course I can understand
that's not easy to cooperate with somebody who sends some bad comments
anonymously, however AFAIR Ben always said that he didn't write these
comments here. Of course it's hard to believe that and I don't know
about the faxes and internal ML postings.

However as you always say: "I only cooperate with persons who can
offer me something useful". Don't you think that Hyperion could offer
you some useful things? How many programmers are left who have the
same technical knowhow and how many of these are willing to invest
many ten thousand dollars just for porting "some old" games to a
platform where they may only sell a few hundred copies and lose most
of the invested money? They want the same as you, they want a new market
with more potential than the current "Amiga market". You're doing the future
hardware and OS and they are doing parts of the future software. Think about it.
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 16 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by PC user (203.164.2.199) on 02-Oct-2001 22:00 GMT
In sharp contrast to the bland propaganda of amiga org, ANN proves to have the most important, imformative news and analysis (rumours :) )
I think it's important to know what's going on in our community..
i'm sure 75 percent of people who just read amiga org are still breathlessly waiting for november 1 so they can rush out and pick up a shiny amiga one :)

if amiga dies who wants to run an emulated ancient 68k os?
good luck to AROS and MorphOS. Hopefully amiga change their mind and use morph/aros
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 17 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by Ralph Schmidt (193.159.69.168) on 02-Oct-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (David Scheibler):
@Scheibler>Did you want Hyperion to port Warp3D to MorphOS? I mean Sam Jordan is>one of the developers of Warp3D so it's very unrealistic to believe>that Hyperion will port Warp3D to MorphOS and I don't think that you>will work together with "Mr. WarpOS", right?Not I wanted that...Amiga Inc. asked them to do that inthe context of MorphOS as AmigaOS 4.2.Not that i`m aware of anything Jordan does but theWarp3d "copyrights" are changing like the wind...first it was a product pushed by H&P with Jordanprobably doing some work there.then it was pushed by hyperionthen the friedens said, that they control itand then it was pushed by hyperion again as"theirs".It`s really difficult to understand from theoutside who controls what and when under whichmood phase.>But AFAIK the Friedens emailed Frank Mariak about some problems>with the WarpOS emulation and Warp3DPPC and offered him to fix these>problems, but never got any reply. Why? Of course I can understandThe only thing i'm aware of was their missunderstanding thatthe chip`s byte ordering also affects the fifo which problemwas actually explained to them by Frank Mariak.Their public reactions to their problem was...let`s say it calm...politically unsmart:-)>that's not easy to cooperate with somebody who sends some bad comments>anonymously, however AFAIR Ben always said that he didn't write these>comments here. Of course it's hard to believe that and I don't know>about the faxes and internal ML postings.I have enough evidence that he did it. This isn`t reallyimportant to me anymore...it just helped me to draw someconclusions.>However as you always say: "I only cooperate with persons who can>offer me something useful". Don't you think that Hyperion could offer>you some useful things? How many programmers are left who have the>same technical knowhow and how many of these are willing to investWe'll see...>many ten thousand dollars just for porting "some old" games to a>platform where they may only sell a few hundred copies and lose most>of the invested money? They want the same as you, they want a new marketLet`s say we have some insides in their remaining licencepossibilities therefore this is a weak argument.>with more potential than the current "Amiga market". You're doing the future>hardware and OS and they are doing parts of the future software. Think about it.David..that would be the logical assumption. But this marketisn't about unified market logic but about influence spheres,power, ego, control and money.Ben Yoris seems to share your ideas that he only wants a solutionbut from my profiles of Mr. Hermans, Haeuser it`s very unlikely.And both Friedens are so indifferent where their public statementscontradict a lot internal informations i get.They develop for other amiga game labels anyway at the moment, soits the game labels decision for what API is developed for.
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 18 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by Amifan (213.75.117.243) on 02-Oct-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (David Scheibler):
Uh??? Is this really you David???
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 19 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by Amifan (213.75.117.243) on 02-Oct-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (Ralph Schmidt):
>But this market isn't about unified market logic but about influence spheres,
>power, ego, control and money.

Sopmeone saw the light ladies and gentlemen. All that's left is a nice and shiny mirror to finally open up your eyes.
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 20 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by David Scheibler (217.80.233.58) on 02-Oct-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (Amifan):
Yes, why not?
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 21 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by Sinan Gurkan (195.175.162.228) on 02-Oct-2001 22:00 GMT
Please let the user decide , ok ?

Just deliver your products, sit back and watch...
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 22 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by Sinan Gurkan (195.175.162.228) on 02-Oct-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 21 (Sinan Gurkan):
Mr. Schmidt, all your activity on these mailing-lists and forums are creating
unfriendliness and resistance towards you and your products. At the end
it may also harm your own MorphOS partners...

Some of MorphOS beta-testers are telling that Pegasos and MorphOS are close to V1.0
release. So please deliver your products and for JUST 1 time let the user decide...

I am sure people`s wallets / sales figures will show the better side...
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 23 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by Ralph Schmidt (193.159.69.168) on 02-Oct-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (Sinan Gurkan):
It seems, Sinan, that you missed what happened on Monday.
This isn't anymore about 2 PPC OS competing for its users.
It's about one PPC OS competing against x86 emulation systems
which makes the old anti morphos compaigns for that specific
"competition against 4.0" reason pointless.
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 24 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Yoris/Hyperion (213.44.210.114) on 02-Oct-2001 22:00 GMT
I give up.

I must be too stupid.
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 25 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by Thomas Frieden (62.155.155.115) on 02-Oct-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (Ralph Schmidt):
> And both Friedens are so indifferent where their public statements
> contradict a lot internal informations i get.

Would you *please* stop calling me a liar ? Thanks a lot.
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 26 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by Hans-Joerg Frieden (62.155.155.115) on 02-Oct-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (Ralph Schmidt):
Dear Mr. Schmidt:

> Warp3d "copyrights" are changing like the wind...
> first it was a product pushed by H&P with Jordan
> probably doing some work there.
> then it was pushed by hyperion
> then the friedens said, that they control it
Warp3D was, is, and always was a project by Sam Jordan, Thomas and Myself. Haage & Partner supported the project, and hosted the web site. They never where copyright holder, nor did anyone except the three above mentioned people ever write a line of code for it. Any claims that copyright was changing is pure nonsense - Hyperion has a distribution licence, nothing else. The copyright, if you care to read it, still lies with us.

> The only thing i'm aware of was their missunderstanding that
> the chip`s byte ordering also affects the fifo which problem
> was actually explained to them by Frank Mariak.
> Their public reactions to their problem was...let`s say it calm...
> politically unsmart:-)

The byte ordering of the FIFO is a myth. I tried every byteorder with the fifo without success (even the test program that was supposed to work didn't work at all). Then suddenly at one driver revision everything worked. I never tried to blame this on anyone, and didn't claim that this was anyones fault. However, since I don't have access to the driver source code of the CGX driver I cannot say *what* has changed, but something has changed that was responsible for that.

On the Picasso96 drivers it worked out of the box. That is why we changed development to P96/Prometheus. The stuff easily ported back to the CGX driver.

I agree that the wording might have been better, but no one said that there was any bug in either CGX or the G-REX - any claims about that where raised by other people.

But it is true, when I heard about problems with Warp3D on MorphOS' WarpOS emulation both Ben Yoris and myself tried to obtain a list of bugs in Warp3D in order to fix them, but we didn't receive any reply. On a related note, I offered the same help when I heard about problems with Heretic II. I didn't get any reply at all.

The same thing took place when Frank Mariak asked me for cooperation for a MorphOS version of Realsoft3D. I replied that the licence would not cover MorphOS, however I offered to include a PowerUp version, that would supposedly run equall well like a MorphOS version. I never got a reply to that offer, either.

You claim there is a lack of cooperation on our side, but now I claim there is a lack of cooperation on your side. You claim to know a lot, but you never had any contact with my brother or myself. You claim all of your knowledge coming from "internal sources", but actually they are all just rumours.

> Let`s say we have some insides in their remaining licence
> possibilities therefore this is a weak argument

Let's say you don't, otherwise I challenge you to name them. Unless you can't do that, I would like to ask you not to spread false information.

Go ahead, name them!

> And both Friedens are so indifferent where their public statements
> contradict a lot internal informations i get.

You mean that I don't attack people in public like certain other people like to do? If you want to say I am a liar, then do so but don't veil this.

> They develop for other amiga game labels anyway at the moment, so
> its the game labels decision for what API is developed for.

Oh, you seem to know a lot more than I do. Would you name those labels and projects? Unless you can't do that, I would ask you not to say something that might lead people to false conclusions.

Best regards, Hans-Joerg Frieden
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 27 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by Ralph Schmidt (193.159.69.168) on 02-Oct-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (Thomas Frieden):
Thomas, that's not what i said.I said that the informations i get from others about your(plural)internal statements are not always matching your(plural) publicopinions.Therefore my impression is "indifferent"(hopefully the right word),as i have no first hand experience.
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 28 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by Martin Heine (193.218.216.86) on 02-Oct-2001 22:00 GMT
Since I translated it anyway for comp.sys.amiga.misc...
<br><br>
Newsgroup-article #4:
<br><br>
One last time (I think), but the following comment from Ralph is quite
interesting, too, I think. Again just a quick and dirty translation of
some key parts.
<br><br>
Ralph wote in a comment at amiga-news.de:
<br><br>
· They (MorphOS-team) would have no problem to licence "the name" for
an acceptable price. I.e. a price that wouldn't rise the price of the
whole package into astronomical heights and wouldn't hinder a serious
continued development.
<br><br>
· Fleecy's politics towards them would have always been that AI or
he himself controls AmigaOS and leads the development. But just as H&P
they (MorpOS-team) would have come to the conclusion because of the
experiences of the past monthes that AI is not able to do so.
Unfortunately the MorphOS-team would not have the impression that AI's
management would judge its left possibilities in a realistic way.
<br><br>
· H&P control 3.5/3.9 and would have put AI under massive pressure
with this, regarding to Ralph's information. He therefore speculates
that this might be one of the reasons why AI isn't very cooperative
towards H&P. But on the basis of 3.9 further development wouldn't be
possible anyway.
<br><br>
· From May to the end of August there would have been a second round
of negotiations regarding MorphOS as the new OS basis, after the first
one broke down in the beginning of the year because of "Hyperion &
Partner". That second negotiations would not have failed directly
because of Hyperion, but it would have shown that AI aren't able to
lead an OS-development. Furthermore it would have been argued with
virtual project-groups to keep the MorphOs-team out of important parts
as for example graphics or to pretend something that doesn't exists.
But to develop a hardware-independent AmigaOS, one has also to develop
graphics new and this they would have done already. They'd be testing
for some time already a complete native graphics.library on the basis
of CGFX-technology.
<br><br>
· Since they're interested in having until the date X a OS ready for
the Pegasos, it would have been irresponsible by them to sign a
contract which consequences would have been:
<br><br>
o to give the project's control to AI and AI had been able to
put them under pressure regarding the offer of 4.x for their
own hardware although it would have been based on their
own technology
<br><br>
o it would have been 100% predictable that AI would absolutely
not be able to manage this and to guarantee a release until date X
<br><br>
o others would have wanted to block them at key parts essential
for the success of the project. graphics in this case
<br><br>
o not to mention the not acceptable licensing modalities
<br><br>
· Since the current situation would be just ridiculous, AI and H&P
would block each other, AI would block other people by not deciding,
they'd decided at the end of August to realize the project together
with their direct partners and let the others do their own things.
<br><br>
· "I have told several Interna's here, but I don't see any other
possibility anymore in the current situation. I won't leave the field
to other people just because they might profit from the Amiga-user's
don't getting informed about certain things at all or only delayed."
<br><br>
· "In the next monthes it will be decided if people decide for x86 or
our PPC way, and this decision will have elementary consequences which
possibly won't be repairable."
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 29 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by Paul Heams (195.92.67.68) on 02-Oct-2001 22:00 GMT
Another month, another one of these postings.. More rumours, lots of spite, more slagging off... Everytime I read one I get more depressed at the "Amiga/MorphOS/Whatever.." market.I wonder if it's time to switch off the light before the bulb blows. I hope not..
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 30 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by geezuz (193.229.255.17) on 02-Oct-2001 22:00 GMT
developers, developers! Pls stop the fighting as blaming eachother
wont do any good for anyone.

It's understandable that there is bad blood between the companies, but
fighting about it wont get the projects on the way finished.
It can clearly be seen that there will never be warp3d for morphos
because of the relationships that are so infected with the companies
involved. So what's the point of arguing about it in public anymore?

Everyone involved could just deliver their own products and then the
user/buyer can decide which alternative to go 4. The less attractive
product will die out without market demand and market fragmentation
will also be avoided because of that. And we are all left with
something we hopefully can call an (amiga) or pegasos, or whatever.

As long as it's good, fast, and a viable alternative to other os's and
platforms, the user should be happy.
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 31 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by David Scheibler (217.80.232.225) on 02-Oct-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 27 (Ralph Schmidt):
And I think that's exactly the problem both of you (MorphOS team and
Hyperion) have. You don't speak to the other part but instead listen
to some third party voices. You hear something they might have said
about your project and guess what: The Friedens also hear statements
you or other members of your team might have done. Therefore both of
you think: "Oh what the hell they're talking about us...". But you
forget that this might not be true or is without any context.

But my impression is that you're having the same aim but instead of
sharing your opinions directly by email, irc, phone or whatever you
just believe what somebody told you. So it might be the best way to
exchange some emails and speak about the whole situation once again.
Speak to each other instead of believing all the rumours you heard
about the other party.

If after this your conclusion is that you better don't work with the
other team then that's absolutely ok, but not if you got your conclusion
because of some rumours you heard before.
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 32 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion (134.58.253.115) on 02-Oct-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (Ralph Schmidt):
"by fax(which someone still has)"

I know the fax you are referring to.

It's actually quite a bit more balanced than what you are claiming but then that's no surprise.

By the way, thank you for providing me with more evidence that the receiving party grossly violated his contractual obligations, in this instance of confidentiality.

We'll just have to widen the scope of our law suit.

Party on indeed!
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 33 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by Ralph Schmidt (193.159.69.168) on 02-Oct-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 26 (Hans-Joerg Frieden):
Hans Joerg.When i say "you" i always mean plural..>Warp3D was, is, and always was a project by Sam Jordan, Thomas and Myself.>Haage & Partner supported the project, and hosted the web site.>They never where copyright holder, nor did anyone except the three>above mentioned people ever write a line of code for it.>Any claims that copyright was changing is pure nonsense - Hyperion>has a distribution licence, nothing else.>The copyright, if you care to read it, still lies with us.Ok..acknowledged but you probably agree that the publicrepresentation of this issue was a bit confusing overthe years.>I agree that the wording might have been better, but no one said>that there was any bug in either CGX or the G-REX - any claims>about that where raised by other people.Well..it wasn`t really my issue...i only know that somepeople were not "amused".>But it is true, when I heard about problems with Warp3D on MorphOS'>WarpOS emulation both Ben Yoris and myself tried to obtain a list>of bugs in Warp3D in order to fix them, but we didn't receive any>reply.Teemu Suikki is the author of the warpos emulation inmorphos. Nobody else touched it.All known problems should be covered inside the wosemuppc.notesfile. I scanned it right now and found no warp3d problem.The only problem *I* am aware of is with the pci permediadriver which doesn`t work (yet) so this will break when thenew pcilib only flashes are released but you were notifiedabout the problem as this also influences the grex.I haven`t followed anymore what happened here..if theproblem is solved or not.But we delayed that flash since May for that specificinstead of releasing it right away and causing your"customers" a real headache.>On a related note, I offered the same help when I heard about>problems with Heretic II. I didn't get any reply at all.I know of no specific problems of Heretic2 but i alsohave never played it. I don`t think frank has either.>The same thing took place when Frank Mariak asked me for cooperation>for a MorphOS version of Realsoft3D. I replied that the licence would>not cover MorphOS, however I offered to include a PowerUp version,>that would supposedly run equall well like a MorphOS version.>I never got a reply to that offer, either.I`m not aware of that but i can check that back with frank.What kind of answer would you have expected then ?>You claim there is a lack of cooperation on our side, but now I claim>there is a lack of cooperation on your side.>You claim to know a lot, but you never had any contact with my brother>or myself.Neither had you with me..but that hadn`t stopped you fromposting to the internal 4.0 ml around jan/feb that warp3dcould never ever work under MorphOS to lobby for H&P.>You claim all of your knowledge coming from "internal sources", but>actually they are all just rumours.I wouldn`t call the information that you wouldn`t portWarp3d for MorphOS as an AmigaOS as a rumour because itcame from several sides while i regard one side as 100%trustworthy.Look..i also don`t blame you for this...it`s just yourdecision like i make mine with the stuff i own.It was just an example about amiga not being able tocontrol and lead such a project.>> Let`s say we have some insides in their remaining licence>> possibilities therefore this is a weak argument>Let's say you don't, otherwise I challenge you to name them.We both know the name and i think i answered thisas calm as possible to conter the argument thatHyperion is extremely important for the successof *our* project. Hyperion would be "important"for us if they would have access to a lot interestinglicences and as i'm quite sure that`s not the caseI answered it that way.>> And both Friedens are so indifferent where their public statements>> contradict a lot internal informations i get.>You mean that I don't attack people in public like certain other>people like to do? If you want to say I am a liar, then do so>but don't veil this.Please read the reply to your brother about the issue ANDwe should both be aware what kind of lobbying which hashappened from your side early this year this does imhoNOT match with the image of a "neutral" party.>> They develop for other amiga game labels anyway at the moment, so>> its the game labels decision for what API is developed for.>Oh, you seem to know a lot more than I do. Would you name those>labels and projects? Unless you can't do that, I would ask you>not to say something that might lead people to false conclusions.Uhh..even timothy de grothe(sp?) said publicly on irc that youdo a specific game port for Epic. Doesn`t even require me touse insider informations:-)I also don`t see your problem about it...doing a contractorjob for some other label isn`t something "bad".
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 34 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by Kay Are Ulvestad (129.241.128.52) on 02-Oct-2001 22:00 GMT
What I'd like to know, is: Why can't everyone just be nice? :-)-Seriously, I'm not interested in knowing what developer A thinks about developerB, or what developer B thinks about Ainc's ability to lead an OS project. Nor doI care about people unofficially cancelling OS4. I'll consider OS4.0 to be off whenI read a press release about it on the AInc webpage. Until then, it is scheduled forNovember.-I really don't see this kind of rumormongering as productive at all. Let's all justwait and see what happens. No need to make comments about stuff when we don't knowthe facts, there are already plenty of people creating confusion.-Kay
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 35 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by Paul Heams (195.92.67.68) on 02-Oct-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 34 (Kay Are Ulvestad):
Well said.
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 36 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by Johan Rönnblom (193.11.248.159) on 02-Oct-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 26 (Hans-Joerg Frieden):
Thomas Frieden: He didn't call you a liar. Obviously the problem is
that you don't communicate directly when you have some questions for
each others.

Also, I think both sides here seem to read too much into simple things
like not receiving a reply to some email. I think nearly all
reasonably busy people miss out answering some emails now and then.
Not necessarily because they weren't considered interesting/important,
sometimes exactly the reverse is true if I look at myself.. something
is important, but I don't have the time to respond to it that it would
deserve/need. Eventually I forget about it altogether.. and no
queuing/priority system gives me more hours to work.



Hans-Joerg: Well Ralph should have asked you directly about the
license status imho. :)

When it comes to the bug.. this isn't exactly the first time there is
speculation about some "secret bug fix" (for prestige reasons) when
something suddenly works. But I think you're both experienced enough
to have experienced stranger problems than that which then suddenly go
away for some unexpected reason (such as some major rewrite of some
code which never was suspected to be buggy).

Anyway, I don't think you'll get an answer from Ralph about his
"sources", but neither do I understand why he should have to name them
at this point. David Scheibler painted a very dark picture of
Hyperions situation, and even though I have absolutely no inside
sources at all I don't believe it is true. Maybe Hyperion are somewhat
irrational about their support for Amiga, but I really don't think
they are completely crazy. And I wouldn't want them to be :)
So unless you challenge Ralph's statement that David's version is
untrue, you don't really have any basis for asking him to prove
anything. And I don't think you will make that challenge. :)

(which of course does not necessarily mean that Ralph's impression of
Hyperion's actual situation is correct, but that's a totally different
matter.. until Ralph says something that you challenge, he doesn't
have to prove it imho..)
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 37 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by Adam Ceremuga (203.164.2.199) on 03-Oct-2001 22:00 GMT
i disagree with Kay.
Honestly these are these are practically the only people left in the amiga market that are actively developing and hace a chance to save it, and u want them to shut up and fragment a miniscule market? (morph/AOSXL)

.. if ralph and ben and whoever else wants to debate their business/personal relationship in this forum, there is a chance they can clear up their misunderstandings and maybe possibly work together:

kiss and make up guys.. act like mature adults.
u know it's for the best.
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 38 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by Richie (216.234.220.115) on 03-Oct-2001 22:00 GMT
Turn out the lights the party's over.Can MorphOS run on a MAC?Will AROS ever be finished?What software will be available.
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 39 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by Solar (BAUD) (217.224.29.88) on 03-Oct-2001 22:00 GMT
Looking at all this, I start wondering, if we would all be happier if the PowerUP boards never saw the light of day.

Perhaps the Amiga community wouldn´t exist at all anymore; developers would be earning real money elsewhere, users would get used to other OSs´, and this eternal flaming wouldn´t have taken place.

No PUP / WUP battles. No head-over-backwards stunts with proprietary PPC hardware like AmigaOne or Pegasos. No MorphOS / AmigaOS 4.x battles. 68k emulations can be done on virtually every hardware. I think in the end the whole PPC chapter of Amiga history did more harm than good.

Certainly the last few years led to some people developing rather bloated egos. (Not necessarily including every major player on this thread, and not limited to those.)

I feel sick.
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 40 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Yoris/Hyperion (62.23.78.241) on 03-Oct-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 39 (Solar (BAUD)):
This is getting pathetic. "Kindergarden" is the right word.

Please stop.

Enjoy the silence. If somebody has something to tell to somebody else then please go public.

And please Mr. Schmidt, stop challenging on public sites. If you have something private to claim then use the Hyperion personal adresses.

Thank you.
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 41 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Yoris/Hyperion (62.23.78.241) on 03-Oct-2001 22:00 GMT
Geee... I'm upset.

If somebody has something to tell to somebody else please DON'T GO public.

This is turning me mad...
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 42 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by Sinan Gurkan (212.98.203.240) on 03-Oct-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (Ralph Schmidt):
If AmigaOS 4.0 is cancelled, why I and other beta-testers still beta-testing RoadShow and FFS2 ?.I have just sent a bug report, today...
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 43 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by kriz (212.37.239.150) on 03-Oct-2001 22:00 GMT
bah :(((( WHat is hapening ????!
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 44 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous (212.136.66.9) on 03-Oct-2001 22:00 GMT
Why cant Amiga Inc show some leadership and tell their developers to stop embarassing themselves in public like this.

I think, realistically, Amiga Inc's silence = no news = bad news.... :(
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 45 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous (145.74.191.7) on 03-Oct-2001 22:00 GMT
Lately I've been hearing various rumours from various sources.
Some cliaming that Escena wouldn't be able to finish the A1 others claiming that H&P and their partners wouldn't be able to finish OS4 in time.
So far noone has really taken any effort to stop the spreading of the rumours. IMHO this is the job of AInc. Not doing this shows a lack of either interest or leadership from AInc :-(

As for the MorphOS v.s. OS4 "war" I don't really care about who wins as long as I (and all the other amigans) get fast hardware with a proper OS and more importantly software support.

So lets stop this fighting and wait for either MOS and/or OS4 to appear and see which way the developers decide to go.
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 46 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous (212.136.66.9) on 03-Oct-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 45 (Anonymous):
...yet this too, will fall on deaf ears and the public bickering will continue ...like ...now...
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 47 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by Hans-Joerg Frieden (193.159.58.249) on 03-Oct-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 33 (Ralph Schmidt):
Ralph:
> I scanned it right now and found no warp3d problem.

I think that was before it was actually released. Someone got this from IRC, so I thought it would actually be nice to ask.

Obviously it wasn't.

> The only problem *I* am aware of is with the pci permedia
> driver which doesn`t work (yet) so this will break when the
> new pcilib only flashes are released but you were notified
> about the problem as this also influences the grex.

Yes, I am aware of this problem. I actually have sent several trials to Thomas Dellert, and they didn't work for some reason that is beyond me (they should have). I am still ready to work on that.

> What kind of answer would you have expected then ?

"Yes" or "No" would have been sufficient.

> Neither had you with me..but that hadn`t stopped you from
> posting to the internal 4.0 ml around jan/feb that warp3d
> could never ever work under MorphOS to lobby for H&P.

The term "to lobby for H&P" is suggesting something wrong. I do not need to lobby for H&P, and in fact I don't do it. I never claimed that Warp3D would never work with MorphOS, I only claimed I would not port it. The reason for that is a) that Sam Jordan is part of the team and we wouldn't do anything without his OK and b) that I heard a lot of negative comments from the MorphOS faction. Not from you or Frank, I never claimed that, but you will surely agree that hearing "Warp3D is a heap of crap" or "Warp3D is full of bugs" does not make you more inclined to port it. That is what I said to Amiga Inc. personals, I never posted anything on some internal "os 4" mailing list, because (to the best of my knowledge) I am not subscribed to any of these.

> I wouldn`t call the information that you wouldn`t port
> Warp3d for MorphOS as an AmigaOS as a rumour because it
> came from several sides while i regard one side as 100%
> trustworthy.

Did that came from the same source that claimed we would be doing an Amiga version of Gorky17?

> Hyperion would be "important"
> for us if they would have access to a lot interesting
> licences and as i'm quite sure that`s not the case

"Quite sure" doesn't imply knowledge, right? But that didn't answer my question. If you know what licences we hold, name them.
> we should both be aware what kind of lobbying which has
> happened from your side early this year this does imho
> NOT match with the image of a "neutral" party.

Contrary to other people I am not trying to build any image, either neutral or anything else. You might as someone we both know and hear that I am always telling things like it is, at least he thanked me twice on the phone for being open to him. I still state that I don't have anything against you personally or your work. However, the above statement (we would be "important") clearly states a reason why we had reservations for working with you. But you might also know that we indicated internally that under certain conditions we would be ready.

> Uhh..even timothy de grothe(sp?) said publicly on irc that you
> do a specific game port for Epic. Doesn`t even require me to
> use insider informations:-)

Timothy showed me the log, and I would not interpret this as "Hyperion is doing a MorphOS version of Gorky 17". In fact, that would be news to me, as neither Thomas nor myself are doing any Amiga-related work for Epic.

> I also don`t see your problem about it...doing a contractor
> job for some other label isn`t something "bad".

No, it isn't, and that is not my problem with it. However, it is not true, and that is my problem with it. We're not doing any Amiga-related work for Epic.

Best regards, Hans-Joerg Frieden
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 48 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by Roald Seelemeijer (195.121.4.119) on 03-Oct-2001 22:00 GMT
Hmmmm, can't we all just get along ? :))
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 49 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by smith_rouelle (62.31.144.1) on 03-Oct-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 48 (Roald Seelemeijer):
>Hmmmm, can't we all just get along ? :))

I agree, it would be a hundred times better to have Amiga community leaders with absolutely no passion, vision and perfectly content to follow each other around like sheep.
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 50 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by Agimax (63.59.65.182) on 03-Oct-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 49 (smith_rouelle):
Damn, i must be lost... Where's the beer.
Anonymous, there are 233 items in your selection [1 - 50] [51 - 100] [101 - 150] [151 - 200] [201 - 233]
Back to Top