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[Forum] "party on:-)" (R.S.)ANN.lu
Posted on 02-Oct-2001 19:56 GMT by Martin Heine233 comments
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(Before someone again complains that I'm sharing my opinion "everywhere": I just decided to paste here what I wrote in comp.sys.amiga.misc because of Christian's call for articles.)
The article contains quick and dirty translations of comments made yesterday and today by Mr. Haage and Ralph Schmidt at amiga-news.de, since I thought non-german-speakers might be interested in this, too. Newsgroup-article #1:


To try to compensate at least a little bit the advantages of those Amigans who speak German (and therefore often get easier to rumours, facts, etc., because of the importance of german companies and individuals for the Amiga-market), I thought it might be useful to translate a few statements made at amiga-news.de today.

While Eyetech and H&P accuse each other for the A1/AOS4-delays (one says the hardware is missing, one says the OS4 is missing), Mr. Haage made (among others) the following comments (no warranty for the translation!):


[Mr. Haage (H) comments some rumours (R)]

H: "The interest in OS4.0 we have NEVER lost. But we've never been and are not convinced of the profitability of the project if the concepts won't be changed."

R: "They (H&P) are just the executing organ, all decisions are made by Amiga Inc."

H: "Correct. [...]"

R: "Amiga Inc. displays regarding Communication with their partners "certain" deficits."

H: "Deficits is nicely said. But it's correct!"

R: "Failing to come / insufficient payments from Amiga Inc."

H: "Before payments could be made, contracts have to be made. That far, however, we aren't yet. Regarding which I clearly want to emphasize that WE do not delay."

[...]

H: "To be able to be partners to an agreement, one needs contracts - and that is not Amiga Inc.'s strong point."


[Another comment from Mr. Haage]

R: "Is the date told by Alan Redhouse [Eyetech] for the completion of OS4.0 ("november, but probably not the 1st") possible in your opinion?"

H: "Only if it would be right now possible to work towards that date. But the conditions for this don't exist. Maybe a wonder happens, but I don't expect it."


No wonder that those like me, who've been suspicious regarding AI in favour of MorphOS/Pegasos for some time already, unfortunately feel confirmed more and more. Also no wonder that Ralph Schmidt is enjoying this soap opera from AI, H&P and Eyetech, his first comment has been the one quoted as the subject: "party on:-)".


So, after translating Mr. Haage's point of view, I'll also think I should quote from one of Ralph's comments, too. He (RS) answers to a comment by Mr. Haage (JH):

JH: "In an exclusive x86 AmigaOS version we aren't interested."

RS: "No? :-) Do you think we don't get what you proposed internally already in August? :-)"

[...]

RS: "As you've been also told already by a person from Amiga Inc. some monthes ago... you have no future as Amiga OS vendor."


My personal guess is that the main problem seems to be Amiga Inc., i.e. especially their lack of money. So after them already given up on their plans regarding DE being their future OS many monthes ago, it seems their plan to survive as a content vendor for PDAs seems to be not that successful, too (Alan Redhouse, too, does confirm in his statement that AI still has the already known financial problems). If companies like H&P do speak that way about AI already in the public as Mr. Haage did today at amiga-news.de (I just translated a little bit of it), I exprect the worst regarding AI's future.

Therefore it really seems the Amiga-market's future might be just those two ones Ralph outlined: an emulation-based x86 one by H&P and the PPC one covered by MorphOS.



-----8<--------

Newsgroup-article #2:

Some "second helping" - the "party" goes on:

(Again no warranty for the 'quick and dirty' translation.)


Michael Garlich (Titan Computer) in reply to Mr. Haage:

"You should restrain yourself on your statements against Mr. Schmidt! Only you are to blame for the current situation - if you had actually shown your much propagated readiness for cooperation last year in september, it would not have been come that far. Despite all adverse things Mr. Schmidt contrary to you had been willing to cooperate under leadership of Amiga Inc. !!!"


And another reply by Ralph to Mr. Haage:

"[...] You operate on other levels which the normal user doesn't notice. (dealers, influence on Amiga Inc., threats with licences, internal mailing lists, influence on a certain person and a certain company)"



-----8<--------

Newsgroup-article #3:

I think balance requires me to continue the translation at least one more time, i.e. especially regarding the repeated offer below by Mr. Haage to try to come to a cooperation. Of course everyone draws his own conclusions, H&P-fans may say "didn't I tell you, just Ralph is the bad guy" (although there's on the other hand the, today repeated, version by for example Mr. Garlich who said that Mr. Haage would have prevented exactly this last year), while the other side may say he's just lying or trying another trick. My personal conclusion is that Mr. Haage may just get cold feet because of the apparently very bad financial situation at AI and its consequences for another Amiga-PPC-future besides MorphOS.

Well, here again some quick and dirty translations from the very same thread of comments at amiga-news.de as before; again, no warranty.


1. Mr. Haage:

He suggests to accept an invitation made partly humorously by amiga-news.de's Petra Struck to Mr. Haage and Ralph to meet at her home for a dinner and try to come to an agreement.

(But Ralph did already say in a comment before he'd never again cooperate with Mr. Haage, because of the well-known history and because H&P would just have nothing to offer that would be of interest for the bplan/Morphos-crew. (Although I think Ralph underestimates the value of "the name", but on the other hand I don't know how much, if any, influence H&P has regarding this.))


2. Ralph:

(It has been said before that by saying H&P (and Hyperion) would have nothing to offer the MorphOS-team could be interested in, they would cut out "StormC4, Arteffect, Genesis, Olsen's TCP/IP Stack, OS 3.9 licences" and Hyperion's products.)

" 1) We have with the PPC-MorphOS-GCC our own development system, [...].
2) I wouldn't know what's that unique with ArtEffect. [...]
3) Genesis is a GUI surface and the TCP/IP stack belongs to Tomi Ollila, which we do also have as a PPC version.
4) Olsen's TCP/IP stack is controlled by Olsen and nobody else. And we do have a *very* good relationship with Olaf.
5) Amiga users do already own 3.1, 3.5 or 3.9 and it's left up to them of they continue to use it until a completely new WB exists.
6) MorphOS as AmigaOS 4.x was massively opposed by Hyperion since november 2000 and in summer it was said that they'd never would be porting Warp3d to MorphOS, when Amiga Inc. suggested them this. This decision is left up to them for what they want to develop something... The consequence is just that they don't play any role in our plans. Therefore we plan an own 3D solution. Warp3d is only that long important as new games support it.
[...]
9) As I said already... H&P are free to offer their applications for MorphOS also. *We* won't hinder anyone from developing applications for MorphOS. SDKs from us always will be free.
10) With Papyrus we'll have a real office-package with word-processor."


3. Mr. Haage:

Replying to the comment by Mr. Garlich (see earlier in this thread), Mr. Haage says he wouldn't know about what Mr. Garlich would be speaking.


4. Ralph:

(He was asked if Nova Design or Paul Nolan would have announced support for MorphOS already.)

"We have also spoken with Kermit Woodal several times. Since he's also closely related with Merlancia, there are certainly possibilities. :-) Paul Nolan does have a key and a development system since last year... [...]"
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 51 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by Lennart Fridén on 03-Oct-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 39 (Solar (BAUD)):
On the contrary Solar, I'm starting to enjoy this soap opera. I think I'll be off working on my master thesis "Shitheads in the Amiga community" with the subtitle "Mankind never learns its lessons".

So AOS 4.0 may or may not be cancelled? So Pegasos and Morphos is what's left? Well Mr.Scmidt, you're right about your comment "party on", but I'm afraid you won't enjoy the party. There's no much of a market for you and I don't think you'll be able to make one either. I'm pretty sure that all that'll be left of Amiga will be AROS, UAE and a few people still doing things the Amiga way (Hi Solar!).

So bring out the popcorn and party on! Now, where's Dave Haynie and his camera? He's got quite a few deathbed vigils to shoot...
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 52 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by smith_rouelle on 03-Oct-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 40 (Ben Yoris/Hyperion):
>This is getting pathetic. "Kindergarden" is the right word.
>
>Please stop.
>
>Enjoy the silence. If somebody has something to tell to somebody else then >please go public.
>
>And please Mr. Schmidt, stop challenging on public sites. If you have >something private to claim then use the Hyperion personal adresses.

People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 53 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by Graham on 03-Oct-2001 22:00 GMT
1) Please take personal arguments to emails
2) Is it slander or libel to make incorrect accusations against someone?
3) Just because there isn't an announcement does not mean that everyone has given up and gone home
4) If one product is (substantially) better than the other, then it will win eventually.

I would like weekly Amiga Inc updates as well, but it is up to them to decide what to do and say! They have been quiet recently, hopefully working hard getting the systems ready for release during November.

It is sad to see a small community get torn apart like this.
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 54 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by smith_rouelle on 03-Oct-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 51 (Lennart Fridén):
I agree, this latest debacle seems to have a sense of finality in it...
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 55 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Yoris on 03-Oct-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 52 (smith_rouelle):
Nice expression.
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 56 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 03-Oct-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 55 (Ben Yoris):
>Nice expression.

I'm glad you approve. Now perhaps you may take some of your own advice?
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 57 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Yoris/Hyperion on 03-Oct-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 56 (Anonymous):
So you want me to shut up while I'm trying to calm down people ?

Is that right ?
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 58 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by Ralph Schmidt on 03-Oct-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 47 (Hans-Joerg Frieden):
>Did that came from the same source that claimed we would be doing an Amiga version of Gorky17?1) No2) I haven't mentioned the name here...de grothe mentioned the title yesterday while backchecking what he really said a day before:-)>> Hyperion would be "important">> for us if they would have access to a lot interesting>> licences and as i'm quite sure that`s not the case>"Quite sure" doesn't imply knowledge, right? But that didn't>answer my question. If you know what licences we hold, name them.We can both make educated guesses...to do that youtry to collect informations from *all* kinds of sourcesto create a foundation for it. There is always aninformational noise on developer/dealer/friend knows wholevel which gives you quite interesting informationswhich i wouldn't always dismiss as "rumours":-)> we should both be aware what kind of lobbying which has> happened from your side early this year this does imho> NOT match with the image of a "neutral" party.>Contrary to other people I am not trying to build any image,>either neutral or anything else. You might as someone we both>know and hear that I am always telling things like it is, at>least he thanked me twice on the phone for being open to him.>I still state that I don't have anything against you personally>or your work. However, the above statement (we would be "important")>clearly states a reason why we had reservations for working withLook..you have to set that into a context.>you. But you might also know that we indicated internally that>under certain conditions we would be ready.The informations i got in the summer(and as i said it wasalso from a 100% unbiased secure source which isn't oneyou may thought about) showed us the opposite...and pleaseno VM discussion now as it has nothing to do with portinga so called official Ami3d to some AmigaOS base.> Uhh..even timothy de grothe(sp?) said publicly on irc that you> do a specific game port for Epic. Doesn`t even require me to> use insider informations:-)>Timothy showed me the log, and I would not interpret this as>"Hyperion is doing a MorphOS version of Gorky 17".Stop..i did not say..Gorky17(de grothe mentioned the name*yesterday*) and i also did not say morphos...he arguedthat you would do a game for what you as a programmerwould decide what it is developed for and i told himthat label you work for decides that.Look..all these semantic games lead nowhere...>In fact, that would be news to me, as neither Thomas nor myself>are doing any Amiga-related work for Epic.Where have i said you "would" ? I said here on ann, that youdo work for a different label too.What`s the problem about this ? I also do work for otherbusinesses when possible.> I also don`t see your problem about it...doing a contractor> job for some other label isn`t something "bad".>No, it isn't, and that is not my problem with it. However,>it is not true, and that is my problem with it.>We're not doing any Amiga-related work for Epic.Label != Amiga...label == company X doing work for Y.P.S. You shouldn`t really try to read more into what i say:-) When i wanna say something i say it directly...i think we all experienced this lovely side of mine for a long time on irc or in amiga forums.
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 59 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 03-Oct-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 57 (Ben Yoris/Hyperion):
>So you want me to shut up while I'm trying to calm down people ?
>
>Is that right ?

Read some of your collegue's posts to ANN over the past year, then see comment 52.
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 60 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by Sinan Gurkan on 03-Oct-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 58 (Ralph Schmidt):
Aren't most of the people in the center of this discussion German or living in Germany ?

Please come together somewhere in Germany and discuss the problems...Choose a chairman who both sides respect,trust and let thim lead the discussion..

If you can find a solution, that will be great for Amigans..If you can't, well that is life...Everybody will have to make choices then...

Even USA and Russia came together to discuss things...Perhaps you can come together just once to see if it will work or not ?

Just once...hiding behind computer screens won't change things and will make things worse for your companies, users, partners, e.t.c.
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 61 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Yoris/Hyperion on 03-Oct-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 59 (Anonymous):
That's what I want to avoid. I don't care who said this or that, me is better than you blablabla.

This is ALL SO STUPID AND DESTRUCTIVE ! I don't want to enter the game because this is the kind where EVERYONE WILL LOSE.

I won't comment the fact that I even don't know who you are but you must have some "reasons" because someone posted this and another in your back send a fax to somebody else while the others was lobbying against somebody else again and never sent the answer blablablablablablablablablabla...

HEY PEOPLE READ HERE. PEOPLE REALISE NOW HOW STUPID THIS BECAME, ALL THIS F***ING SITUATION.

Let Bplan and Morphos team work.
Let the OS 4 team work.
Let's see the results in the end.

Let's be some big guys and not children. Otherwise this is the end of the Amiga.

Who'd like to buy an Amiga seeing how silly the people in the market are ? What would think potential customers concerning repairing services, hotlines, software support when they see how people are fighting even before anything is ready !

This is getting surrealistic ! SURREALISTIC !
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 62 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by Graham on 03-Oct-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 52 (smith_rouelle):
It appears that Ralph is in a tall, fragile glass tower whereas Ben is in a bullet proof greenhouse then.

It is clearly unacceptable from a business perspective to sling unproven accusations around in public. It harms both the business and your personal reputation.

Let the products talk for themselves, eh?
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 63 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by Lennart Fridén on 03-Oct-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 62 (Graham):
What products? The bastards just bitch on ANN instead of doing _REAL_ work. And I though I wasted my time...

Yes, Ralph, this is meant to provoke you. Yes, Hyperion, this is meant to provoke you. Yes, every damned little child playing in this sand box this is meant to provoke YOU.

Now, shut up and do something useful and constructive for a change!
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 64 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by smith_rouelle on 03-Oct-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 61 (Ben Yoris/Hyperion):
>I won't comment the fact that I even don't know who you are but you must have >some "reasons" because someone posted this and another in your back send a fax >to somebody else while the others was lobbying against somebody else again and >never sent the answer blablablablablablablablablabla...

I am just an average Amiga user, I am not connected to your side, their side, anybody's side. If I don't like what I'm hearing from you, them, anybody, then I will say so. In fact, I've critisced Mr Schmidt and other parties plenty too on other matters. Please do not mistake my neutrality as some kind of agenda. I just want to see the Amiga succeed.
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 65 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by den on 03-Oct-2001 22:00 GMT
this bullshit is pathetic - y do i want to give my money to people like this who dont keep their eye on the job .. sod rumours, sod gossip .. shut up do your job and ignore idle minds and idle gossip .. and do WHATEVER it takes to make ur projects spread into common use as fast as possible - even if the OS is developed by the devil himself.

why cant we have 2 flavours of amiga os, morphOS + amigaOS with warp3D [and as much of the os as possible really] sitting on top, programmed in vp for the amigaDE?

everyone here knows that if they made enough money, and made something revolutionary and successful they would know how pathetic this all is.

if this goes on longer than christmas my amiga is going in the bin and i`ll buy a computer & os from people who can at least work together to get the job done!!!
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 66 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 03-Oct-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 63 (Lennart Fridén):
If that's you opinion, don't share it with us. I agree with the fact that
everyone has to stop posting here and keep working but NOT your
SHITTY word "bastards"... Keep swearing developers and we'll not
have any for you to swear...
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 67 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 03-Oct-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 63 (Lennart Fridén):
If that's you opinion, don't share it with us. I agree with the fact that
everyone has to stop posting here and keep working but NOT your
SHITTY word "bastards"... Keep swearing developers and we'll not
have any for you to swear...
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 68 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by Lennart Fridén on 03-Oct-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 66 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
Given their current activites that'd be a small loss.
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 69 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 03-Oct-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 68 (Lennart Fridén):
You know what? No Hyperion, no Warp3D, no game ports...
Without Schmidt, no alternative option...

Losing any of those is a loss.
And just talking without knowing anything is pure stupidness...
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 70 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by Lennart Fridén on 03-Oct-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 69 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
Even without Scmidt there's plenty of alternatives. I agree, talking without knowing anything is pure stupidity...

Look, I have no intention turning this into a personal slugfest with you. This topic has gotten way out of hand and way out of line. Too many involved and too many feelings. The best thing we can do is to drop this bull and do as Napoleon said: Qui vivra vera.

Cheers!
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 71 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 03-Oct-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 70 (Lennart Fridén):
Last word.
I'm talking about PPC. Which alternatives?
AROS? The main development is on x86.
AmigaXL? x86.

I want to see os 4 as nothing else but IF it never
comes out and MOS does, I'll have to follow that. I
don't want to leave the Amiga just yet.

Come on guys... do anything to get the AONE-OS 4 out
THIS year. I don't care about the month... I only care about
the year.
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 72 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by Adam Waldenberg on 03-Oct-2001 22:00 GMT
This is ridiculous... Stop bladdering, and believe ONLY official statements.
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 73 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by Stefan Lorenz (DJLorry) on 03-Oct-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 72 (Adam Waldenberg):
Hi, I just wonder what all this is about ?Are there really any Amiga-users left which really want to invest big amounts of money in (up to now not existing hardware) without any useful software for it ??That is the key-point which all Amiga-developers seem to have forgotten for a few years now: software and not Hardware/Operation-systems is the stuff which atract users !!What is a PPC-Hardware useful for if there is no competive software for it ??And that is the reason why the Amiga-market has shrinked that much as it did for the last years. Why didn´t companies didn´t start porting PC-games back in 95 or 97 ?What is my cyberstormPPC useful for when only a handful of application and games support it (I just let the bunch of ported open-source stuff aside) ??There could have been a PPC-AmigaOS already in 1997 but some people failed to find an agreement. That was the time the future of Amiga died for many users !!! Now it is much too late and the Amiga will die. I think we are just watching the last episode at the moment.There are some rumors and hardware-anouncements but I haven´t seen any useful hardware for 3 years now (last thing was the csppc and the pvppc some 3 years ago). I was very sad when I noticed that P5 went bancrupt and i would never get my preordered G4-board. That was the point that I knew Amiga would die for sure.All these PCI-solutions are things which could have been developed (or possibly have been developed but not published until now) some years ago.. now it is really too late.These current fights and problems between various people and companies only helped and still help to let the amiga die even faster..And to all developers:Why don´t you just anounce a product when it is ready for production ?? I am really sick of those anouncements which are made for products which will never be available. I have seen that too many times.I will keep my A4000T with CSppc and CVppc (and my various other A4000s, A1200s and A500s) for nostalgic reasons. I spent most of my youth with them (and most of my money for them) and I really like them but I think at some point it is time to say goodbye..So just party on gravediggers ;)RegardsStefan aka DJLorry
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 74 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by Solar (BAUD) on 03-Oct-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 60 (Sinan Gurkan):
> Aren't most of the people in the center of this discussion German or living
> in Germany ?

Yep.

> Please come together somewhere in Germany and discuss the problems...

*lol*

That didn´t work back when phase5 and H&P were located less than 15 minutes´ car drive apart. I doubt it will work now.
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 75 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by Mike Veroukis on 03-Oct-2001 22:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 39 (Solar (BAUD)):
>I think in the end the whole PPC chapter of Amiga history did more harm than >good.

I have to agree here. Considering there haven't been that many PPC cards sold, it can't be credited for keeping the Amiga alive this long. And it's not the PPC technology that really hurt the Amiga market but the de-centralized progress that was made into this field. The competing hardware/software for PPC created a very consumer hostile environment. Consumers had to put too much thought into which PPC platform to go with. This made a lot of potential customers to choose niether. And this too might happen again with OS4/MorphOS.

The Amiga market will simply slip into complete anarchy (if it isn't already). That is no way for the market to recover. Sure there might be anarchists out there (and some times I feel that all remaining Amiga users are really just a bunch of anarchists) who enjoy all this, but it's not gonna help the Amiga market share expand in the capitalistic (and realistic) world we live in.

We'll see peace in the middle east before we see peace in the Amiga market. And like in both conflicts, only a decisive victory by one over the other will produce a lasting cease fire. But sadly, once (if) that happens, everyone will lose interest.

- Mike
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 76 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by Mart on 03-Oct-2001 22:00 GMT
I realy didn't want to make a comment on this as I'm sick of it !But I have to get this of my chest..... Bill, Fleecy, Gary ? Please make a statement or leave a comment somewhere and tell us whats going on with OS4 developments.Do you have enough cash to pull of what you intended ? Can everyone here just SHUT-UP ? And be a bit (a lot) more constructive ?This is NOT helping the current situation (if there is one) ! You know who would be laughing there asses of about al this ? MICROSOFT...We don't want that, do we ? Mart - Getting sick of it all....
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 77 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by Lars Nelson on 04-Oct-2001 18:21 GMT
Wow!, is anyone still reading? I think it was almost 2 years ago when I started
reading ANN. Never have I been so inspired after reading to post a comment
until now. I am glad to see people here from Hyperion, H&P, and other companies
keeping an eye on open discussions. I have to throw out a huge THANK YOU to
many of you who put your hard work into the system I love more than any other.
I'm glad to be able to spend my money on the excellent hardware and software.
I know a couple of you aren't around anymore, but: Thank You COMMODORE for
my A4000D. Thank You PHASE5 for my CyberMKIII. Thank You VISION FACTORY for
my CGX4. Thank You VILLIAGETRONIC for my PicassoIV w/Concierto. Thank You H&P
for my OS39 and AmigaWriter. There are so many more to thank.
I am an Internet Network Engineer and maintain all kinds of Cisco, Extreme, and lots of other hardware and software each day. Unfortunately
I have to use WindowsNT as my OS at work, but sneak in NetBSD where I can.
I do an excellent job at work, and it is great, but it is a blessing for
me to be able to come home each day to my AMIGA. I have tried everything
out there and nothing else beats it. I am excited that there are real
existing products for me to buy and I'm saving up for as many of them as possible. Although I try and keep track of all development projects, I
know not to pre-order and only buy products after they have been released
and are working. The bottom line is that this is what I will continue to do.
Thanks to all those developers and users still working on and supporting
their Amigas. My next purchase will be a CyberPPC board so I can run
Hyperion's excellent game ports and the other PPC supporting software,
or a Mediator/Power Tower for PCI expansions and related software, or
perhaps a contending PCI solution. I'm looking forward to a new
motherboard solution that keeps the Classic magic on PPC.
Good luck in working out all of the development projects and problems.
I'll know who succeeds when I pull out my cash and take their product home.

Lars Nelson lars@larsnet.net Happy Amiga Enthusiast
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 78 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by Xemos on 04-Oct-2001 18:39 GMT
I wich, that Bplan team Buy the Amiga name, and put an end at this jokeEyetech and H&P have make an announcement for last summer;And now,in october, they are nothing to show they make temselves ridiculous........Pfeeee !
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 79 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by Muffin on 04-Oct-2001 18:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 78 (Xemos):
Hehe and where is Bplan?
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 80 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by amorel on 04-Oct-2001 20:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 32 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
"We'll just have to widen the scope of our law suit."

Man you are so lame.
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 81 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by Xemos on 04-Oct-2001 20:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 79 (Muffin):
1)Morph-os run over BlizzardPPC and CyberstormPPC2)Morph-os run over PegasosAnd a working Pegasos with Morphos will be show at cologneCool 8-)
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 82 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by AdmV0rl0n on 04-Oct-2001 22:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 81 (Xemos):
Right. I have had enough. LAIRE, You enjoy yourself too fragging much.

Now shut up.

:)

AdmV
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 83 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by Anton Reinauer on 05-Oct-2001 00:25 GMT
Some people are argueing here that everyone should shut up, and that it's destructive to the Amiga scene, but look deeper, and you'll see that a lot of problems/lack of communications has been worked through.
I see this as being a very positive thread, the best in the last few years of problems! It's just a matter of these discussions now being taken to private e-mail.

Cyas Ants
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 84 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by Joe User on 05-Oct-2001 01:44 GMT
Hello. I'm an user
I have some money to use for Amiga products, what can I buy?

Can I buy AmigaOne? It was supposed to be out in
March... erm... in July... erm in November...

Can I buy OS4? Uh? Still in the works?

Can I buy AmigaDE? Uh? There is only a player to play little games?

What can I buy, then? Ah, yes! Hyperion (official OS developer!)
conversions of old PC games! Very interesting. I'll surely buy them, so I'll
support the market and allow them to do law suits against other Amiga
developers. That's the way Amiga market works? Veeeery interesting ;-)

Ok, I'm going to the shop right now. See you.
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 85 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by adam ceremuga on 05-Oct-2001 04:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 81 (Xemos):
pegaos/morphos showed working: what about world of amiga in england nov3? :)
get ure asses over to england u crazy germans :)
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 86 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 05-Oct-2001 04:31 GMT
Intelligence is not about showing people how smart you are, it's about NOT showing how stupid you are.
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 87 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by Provocative on 05-Oct-2001 05:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 74 (Solar (BAUD)):
Of course, all being located in Germany.... hmm.....

I know! Common enemy needed. Poland. Who is in Poland?

Elbox!!

Roll in the tanks!

Ahem

;-)
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 88 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 05-Oct-2001 06:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 84 (Joe User):
Go to Kicksoft's site and buy some programs. Most of them will work on
any future Amiga - just a few are PPC-only.

Any program that works on AmigaOS 3.1 with a graphics card should work
on Morphos, AmigaOS 4, Amithlon, AmigaXL, or whatever else actually
goes on sale one day.
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 89 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by Ralph Schmidt on 05-Oct-2001 07:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 86 (Samface):
@Samface(alias Sammy)That`s a classic. To prove your point i suggest everybody toscan for "MorphOS" on www.amiga.org's forums...read the"Sammy" comments.Also read the MUI *news* thread there from a few weeksago with his participation.To sum it up..."Amiga Inc. should sue us"(several times")"liar(e)"(fascinating word game) and other interestingcomments.That speaks for itself...@othersThis shouldn`t be a discussion about the "form"of something but the "content" and there was alotof "content" which came out on monday.This lead to a huge discussion in the german forumsbut on amiga.org...basicly *nothing* and on ann onlyabout the form..not the content.I`m now wondering if a lot people active on bothforums have not realized what was said or if theyjust ignore it because it has negative implicationsyou don`t wanna think and hear about.I`m puzzled...really.
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 90 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by Graham on 05-Oct-2001 08:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 78 (Xemos):
You know damn well that the AmigaOne and AmigaOS4 are coming out in November.

It isn't like bPlan and MorphOS haven't been delayed.

The only thing in MorphOSs favour here is that they never made any promises that they counldn't keep. I think AmigaInc have now learnt this lesson.
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 91 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by Graham on 05-Oct-2001 08:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 80 (amorel):
Well, if there are valid grounds for a lawsuit, then why not sue?

I don't know what the lawsuit is about - personal (slander/libel) or business (trademark infringment, patent infringment, or whatever) - but considering they cost money there has to be a good reason for one.

It is so sad to see ANN taken over by MorphOS weenies.

Just grow up, okay? If your product is better, and will be released for the public to buy THIS YEAR, then you shouldn't have anything to worry about! Why the constant attacks at AmigaInc who are just doing something FOR the Amiga community. If I was AmigaInc I would be severely tempted to just jack it all in, and develop Amiga DE stuff for PDAs only (about their only possible profitable market in my opinion anyway!).
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 92 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by Graham on 05-Oct-2001 08:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 81 (Xemos):
Will the public be able to buy this working MorphOS and Pegasos at Cologne then? Or is it just a technology preview *again*?
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 93 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by Joe user on 05-Oct-2001 08:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 91 (Graham):
There is a VERY GOOD reason for an lawsuit: find moneys :)

It wuold be a better way than FOOL users with
silly games for pda :)

So good luck Hyperion/Amiga Inc: since your business plans didn't go
very well now you can try to find money in this nice new way...
just note that is a long road so some more little "delays" will
be needed ;-)

But don't worry, we are used to delays. We never see anything other
than delays and the only REAL products came from EXTERNAL software
houses (and I'm talking of products, not
videogames conversions, if I want to play I use my PC where these
old games are sold at half their price and runs better).

New motto: support the Amiga, do a lawsuit! ;-)
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 94 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by Sinan Gurkan on 05-Oct-2001 09:15 GMT
Titan Computer is selling both AmigaOS, Hyperion and MorphOS products...

I wish Titan Computer was a negotiator between those companies/developers....

We need someone or some company who is brave enough to be a negotiator...
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 95 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by Lennart Fridén on 05-Oct-2001 09:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 89 (Ralph Schmidt):
"This shouldn`t be a discussion about the "form"
of something but the "content" and there was alot
of "content" which came out on monday."

...and all I've seen of it is a fragmented translation by an obviously biased source (no offense Mr.Heine, but you do state that you've "been suspicious regarding AI in favour of MorphOS/Pegasos for some time already"). I don't speak german, I haven't seen the message boards, I haven't gotten ANY official confirmations about ANYTHING.

"This lead to a huge discussion in the german forums
but on amiga.org...basicly *nothing* and on ann only
about the form..not the content."

I'm inclined to say that we're not all living in the third reich, but that would be cruel, extremely sarcastic and fully Faulty Towers inspired and I wouldn't mean it the way it sounds anyway. So I don't. Don't get me wrong, I take "it" VERY seriously - that's why I can jest about it. No offense...:-)

"I`m now wondering if a lot people active on both
forums have not realized what was said or if they
just ignore it because it has negative implications
you don`t wanna think and hear about."

As so far, I haven't gotten any implications confirmed. Besides an implication is logically true as long as the propositions aren't true whilst the conclusion is false...

"I`m puzzled...really."

No you're not, you're just keen on seeing everyone else fail. With you it's always been "my way or the autobahn!" and it'll always will be. I couldn't care less about Hyperion and their old games, I couldn't care less about who did who an injustice like five years ago and I couldn't care less about the A1 as I'm not going to buy one until I get what I want. The same goes for Pegasos & MorphOS. And ATM all I get is a lot of arrogant bickering.

Will you be the first to prove me wrong or will you be the first to prove me right Herr Schmidt?
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 96 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by Lennart Fridén on 05-Oct-2001 09:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 94 (Sinan Gurkan):
Now, Titan Computer wouldn't be pretty darn biased would it? :-)
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 97 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by Lennart Fridén on 05-Oct-2001 09:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 94 (Sinan Gurkan):
What about Petra Struck? (Not that the various parties will ever grow up enough to get out of the sand box, but one can dream...).
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 98 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by tinman on 05-Oct-2001 10:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 94 (Sinan Gurkan):
If the ann visitors want to donate some money to me for a round-Europe train ticket, I can visit loads of people and slap them all upside the head ;p
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 99 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by David Gerber on 05-Oct-2001 10:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 97 (Lennart Fridén):
Petra Struck? Unbiased? She refused to post the AmiTCP story to amiga-news.de because she considered it as being "a plot against H&P".. As if anyone would be happy to see other people making money out of software they didn't license.
"party on:-)" (R.S.) : Comment 100 of 233ANN.lu
Posted by Sinan Gurkan on 05-Oct-2001 10:44 GMT
I think this problem can be only solved in Germany...
They should talk face to face, in their native language.

If we look at the things from the bright side, at least hardware developers aren't involved in this discussion :)
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