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[News] AmigaONE to be released next yearANN.lu
Posted on 30-Oct-2001 15:57 GMT by Christian Kemp204 comments
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Alain writes: Eyetech made an annoucement. Check it out
AmigaONE to be released next year : Comment 1 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by Dave on 30-Oct-2001 15:06 GMT
Folks. PLEASE take the time to read the contents of the press release BEFORE commenting on here.
Thanks,
Dave.
AmigaONE to be released next year : Comment 2 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by Elwood on 30-Oct-2001 15:12 GMT
Alan, a huge THANK YOU. Those things should have been said. Now that it is, the future seems so bright, so nice, so great !
I hope we'll have a drink at Cologne together with Hyperion...
AmigaONE to be released next year : Comment 3 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by Dave on 30-Oct-2001 15:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Elwood):
I agree. Also well done to Hyperion and Bill/Fleecy/Gary for pulling the Amiga love spuds out of the fire before they got burnt!
Now the last thing we want to see is the tedious crowing "I told you so" guff from any side of the "OS divide(s)".
Dave.
AmigaONE to be released next year : Comment 4 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by kevin orme on 30-Oct-2001 15:26 GMT
Appreciate the honesty, Alan. I think we can survive a couple more months, as there has been action on the Amiga front lately anyway with Amithlon, etc. going on. It would be useful for Amiga Inc. to back up these statements to show solidarity and that a corner has been turned here towards a real, new, Amiga One. :)
We're still waiting. But keeping us in the know definitely helps and helps keep us around.
kevin orme
amiga university
www.amigau.com
AmigaONE to be released next year : Comment 5 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by pixie on 30-Oct-2001 15:28 GMT
There are some good things but there are also some bad things... at least we'll (BPPC/MSKPPC users) have the chance to buy AmigaOS4.0...
pixie- writting from a paradise called portugal
AmigaONE to be released next year : Comment 6 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by Andy Hall on 30-Oct-2001 15:29 GMT
Not wishing to start any flamewar...
Couldn't these details of been given out months before the deadline (as in more than a few days before the deadline)?
If OS4 is only just starting now (glad to hear hyperion are on the case now), would it be possible to fix the huge rift now and start co-operating with bplan and produce a morphos based AmigaOS? Or is this not technically possible?
Doing the above would help with the current bickering among users, double the number of possible nex-gen machines, and unify the future of the classic system, and speed up development (two heads are better than one)
Just my thoughts on it.
BTW I'll still be going to WOASE regardless of AmigaOne OS4
Andy
AmigaONE to be released next year : Comment 7 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by Rik Sweeney on 30-Oct-2001 15:35 GMT
The A1 being released next year suits me down to the ground since hopefully by then I'll have a job to pay for one. I'm glad they made this announcement as at least people do know what is going on.
AmigaONE to be released next year : Comment 8 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by Peter Gordon on 30-Oct-2001 15:36 GMT
Even though I don't own a CSPPC, and I intend to buy the Mediator 4K + SharkPPC with which to run some form of PPC AmigaOS, I think opening up AOS4.0 to CSPPC users is a VERY good idea, otherwise you are just throwing away precious sales to an existing userbase...
AmigaONE to be released next year : Comment 9 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by Andy Hall on 30-Oct-2001 15:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Andy Hall):
Also I don't think the missing of the deadline on is anyone in particular's fault. Alan's honesty is always a welcome breath of fresh air.
Eyetech have tried, Amiga gave it a shot. It hasn't happened the way they planned, nevermind. Not even a year ago there was no Official Amiga nextgen solution, if it takes a bit longer than expected, so be it.
I'm interested in what hyperion come up with.
Andy
AmigaONE to be released next year : Comment 10 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by Mikey C on 30-Oct-2001 15:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Andy Hall):
Thanks Pal, you don't know how much we are relying on a good attendance come Saturday.
At anyrate, I think you'll find that it will be a great show, possibly the biggest anywhere this year (Amiga wise)
Don't forget, we have quite a few special people coming.
(and no I don't mean Annex)
Please come up and say hi on Sat,
it would be nice to meet everyone on the and put faces to names.
I am really looking forward to Saturday. :)
AmigaONE to be released next year : Comment 11 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by Rik Sweeney on 30-Oct-2001 15:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (Mikey C):
Annex aren't coming? Sod that then, where's my refund?
AmigaONE to be released next year : Comment 12 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by Mikey C on 30-Oct-2001 15:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (Rik Sweeney):
LOL! :)
AmigaONE to be released next year : Comment 13 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by acg on 30-Oct-2001 15:51 GMT
I hope this isn't one of those "boxer" type announcements where
the release date keeps getting pushed back....until the
technology is outdated.....
On the other hand, when I was in Sacramento for Amiwest in 2000,
at the Eyetech booth, there was a hookup of an Amiga/and a PC
laptop to a box about 1/2 the height of an A3000
, with two monitors, one monitor running SCALA, and the other
monitor running an Intent (i believe) or AmigaDE animation demo,
...I didn't look at the internals (I would not know what to look
for anyway)...so perhaps this delay is just standard stuff....
I certainly hope so....
AmigaONE to be released next year : Comment 14 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by Dave on 30-Oct-2001 15:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (Mikey C):
Hey mikey, I just sent you an email about where I can get attendance details and tickets for WOA-SE this weekend, or if Im too late!!! Can you followup with a link or something?
AmigaONE to be released next year : Comment 15 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by Dave on 30-Oct-2001 15:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (Dave):
If forgot to say - but the email bounced!
AmigaONE to be released next year : Comment 16 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by |4| on 30-Oct-2001 16:01 GMT
The realy sad part here is that the hardware will be more outdated by the time its finaly out :( sure i knows it million times bether then our old miggys but still its back to paying a shitload for old stuff.
AmigaONE to be released next year : Comment 17 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by Mikey C on 30-Oct-2001 16:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (Dave):
Hi Dave.
Don't worry, here are some details....
Venue:
Poplars Hall
Poplar Drive
Hutton, nr Shenfield
BRENTWOOD
Essex
CM13
Doors Open 12-5pm
Info on getting there from..
http://www.worldofamiga.com/travel.html
Advanced tickets are generally no longer available,
However Ray McCarthy of Kicksoft (http://www.kicksoft.co.uk)
informs me that if he gets any orders today he will post first thing tomorrow.)
Alternatively Tickets will be available at the door for £3.50
If you need a lift, can offer a lift, want train information, or even accomodation,
then try our WoA SE Travel forum which is available from.
http://www.planetheck.co.uk/cgi-bin/YaBB/YaBB.pl?board=Travel
Any other questions please ask, but I am off to College tonight so it will be very late when
you get a reply.
Regards
Mikey C
World of Amiga Southeast.
AmigaONE to be released next year : Comment 18 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by Brecht (darklite) on 30-Oct-2001 16:14 GMT
Somehow I was not surprised
AmigaONE to be released next year : Comment 19 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by Graham on 30-Oct-2001 16:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (|4|):
Heh, it will only be 2 months more out of date. Not a major issue - the hardware should run well together though.
That would explain why no new AmigaOne motherboard photos were forthcoming for the last few months - there weren't any changes at all. Now maybe Eyetech can start leaking more photos as the hardware design carries on again...
AmigaONE to be released next year : Comment 20 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Toner on 30-Oct-2001 16:14 GMT
While disappointing, how many products in Amiga history ever actually
were released "on time"? This isn't a Boxer/Iwin scale hoax project, it's just
a development hiccup caused in part by an industry-wide economic downturn.
Phase 5 were always very late releasing stuff. But they almost always came
through. They did trash the A2000 PPC card, and the whole G4 thing when
they went bust, but other than that they shipped pretty much what they
promised as I remember. (though I may have forgotten something)
Delays are a part of life. It's a tradition of the tech industry outside
the Amiga market, we shouldn't expect Amiga related companies to be immune
to it, especially as they're likely to have less resources at their disposal
than larger tech companies that still suffer large delays on stuff.
AmigaONE to be released next year : Comment 21 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by Mark P on 30-Oct-2001 16:26 GMT
Yes, it is nice to get an update. From what I can gather from reading through the release, however, it sounds like there have been "issues" since May - how come this is the first announcement of the problems?
Secondly, it sounds like the actual hardware development was stopped, and nowhere did I read anything about it being completed, or re-started. Is this the case? Are Escena still a part of the picture?
Don't get me wrong, I think that we need the AmigaOne, and I will buy one whenever it comes out (and if the Boxer ever appears, then I'll probably get one of those, too!), and it is nice to know what is happening and when to expect things... it just seems like there are still a few loose ends.
On a similar (but slightly different) note, whatever happened to Amiga offering shares? That might raise enough capital to do something (even if it is just to take the staff out to lunch as a morale boost!) ;-)
AmigaONE to be released next year : Comment 22 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by Brecht (darklite) on 30-Oct-2001 16:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Andy Hall):
>If OS4 is only just starting now (glad to hear hyperion are on the case now), would it be possible to fix the huge rift now and start co-operating with bplan and produce a morphos based AmigaOS? Or is this not technically possible?
They should talk with the AROS team too.
Fingers crossed. But I'm afraid it won't happen. :(
AmigaONE to be released next year : Comment 23 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by John Block on 30-Oct-2001 16:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 21 (Mark P):
Maybe the international nature of the community was a problem.
Maybe they wanted key shareholders to have large chunks rather than
have lots of shareholders.
AmigaONE to be released next year : Comment 24 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by David Scheibler on 30-Oct-2001 16:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 21 (Mark P):
Well the problems must have appeared after August 1st as back then
there was an announcement by Amiga Inc. that the AmigaOne is
developing well and that they are only one week behind the schedule.
AmigaONE to be released next year : Comment 25 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by HammerD on 30-Oct-2001 16:53 GMT
Eyetech: Thanks for the update. It looks like you are doing "what is possible" to get a next-generation amiga out the door.
But I hope you realize that the continued delays of the AmigaOne/OS 4.0 product are letting competitors gain ground. Bplan (morphos) seems to be way ahead, Amithlon/Amiga OS XL is now out...
So being a current Amiga users who wants the fastest Amiga possible, the only solution at the moment is Amithlon. I hope this segment of the market will be recognized.
My understanding is that many of the existing OS 4.0 code is compiled also for 68K. Don't ignore these users when considering an update for the OS.
If it is possible to add functionality to 68K users, then why not?
My view is that in the long run - and I think Amiga Inc. realizes this - is that you have to run on as many platforms as possible. Don't get into the (I think erroneous view) that PPC is the only way to go.
Imagine a slightly tweaked PC motherboard that adds some basic "amiga features" such as floppy disk support, a cia chip - kind of like a Draco. Amithlon already has *native* drivers for sound, serial, and networking...think of the possibilities...
HammerD
AmigaONE to be released next year : Comment 26 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by AmiDelf on 30-Oct-2001 16:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 24 (David Scheibler):
I dont understand why people are discussing and messing with MorphOS and bPlan? Why? AmigaOS is the original.. why cant MorphOS and those other AmigaOS alike OS'es be another choices? .. I am getting tired of the MorphOS people... Like Sama bin Laden prayers.. Just kidding :)..
AmigaONE to be released next year : Comment 27 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by the man in the shadows on 30-Oct-2001 16:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 21 (Mark P):
> On a similar (but slightly different) note, whatever happened to Amiga offering
> shares? That might raise enough capital to do something (even if it is just to take
> the staff out to lunch as a morale boost!) ;-)
They had to withdraw the open offer as they were slapped with a heafty fine on that.
AmigaONE to be released next year : Comment 28 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by AlBolone on 30-Oct-2001 16:57 GMT
I think everybody expected to happen, what this announcement is all about! Though fully understanding the reasons for further delays I have no understanding for the information policy that lead to it!! This is without any doubt the first honest, reasonable and clear statement we got to hear this year - and therefore it is so much easier to deal with than with the loose, beside the point announcements that Amiga Inc. fed us with the whole year through!! Replacing facts with blurry blah and some "we are so excited!" caused a lot of confusion, dissapointment and disbelieval, not to mention the serious doubts in the abilities and professionalism of Amiga Inc. So I am really not surprised that we receive this first proof of honesty and clarity from Eyetech and NOT from Amiga Inc. - and I hope that this does not reflect who is really leading the new roadmap instead of who should...
AmigaONE to be released next year : Comment 29 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by Brecht (darklite) on 30-Oct-2001 16:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 26 (AmiDelf):
>I dont understand why people are discussing and messing with MorphOS and bPlan? Why? AmigaOS is the original.. why cant MorphOS and those other AmigaOS alike OS'es be another choices? .. I am getting tired of the MorphOS people... Like Sama bin Laden prayers.. Just kidding :)..
Because MorphOS is/was AmigaOS4 without the name "AmigaOS"
AmigaONE to be released next year : Comment 30 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 30-Oct-2001 17:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (Brecht (darklite)):
In their imagination, yes. I even remember a certain "AmigaOS4 Screenshots" webpage where people showed what they imagined the non-existent AmigaOS4 to look like. Dream long enough and they become your own little "reality". :-/
AmigaONE to be released next year : Comment 31 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by Brecht (darklite) on 30-Oct-2001 17:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 30 (Samface):
Again, you don't get it :(
AmigaONE to be released next year : Comment 32 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by Ugr on 30-Oct-2001 17:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (Brecht (darklite)):
> They should talk with the AROS team too.
They should talk with MorphOS team, bplan, AROS people, Bernd Meyer and
Harald Frank, Amiga and UAE developers. They should talk and work together.
We need ONE Amiga operating system for PPC and x86 hardware.
We don't need two or more incompatible Amiga operating systems. We should
join ourselves, no split.
> Fingers crossed. But I'm afraid it won't happen. :(
Yeah, you are right, all Amiga company sucks :(
AmigaONE to be released next year : Comment 33 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by TRUTHSAYER on 30-Oct-2001 17:18 GMT
They used the excuse on shortage of northbridge and southbridge chipsets. That is a lie there was no shortage. Number one that is outdated technology. With this you are buying a mac a pc dont buy into it. Almost all of you if not all have have asked for a better solution . There is a better solution and that is merlancia try them out at www.merlancia.com. You can run Morphos or Amiga OS 4.0 . Most importantly this isnt the AMIGAONE that name represents newer technology. The present Amigas are based on newer technology. We need to improve on them not go backwards like this setup does.
Proof there wasnt a shortage of the chipsets -becasue they are pcs and so is this piece of crap. Its not AmigaOne
The current model of (personal) computer architecture is based around the
“shared bus” philosophy. There is a central device, the Northbridge, that
is the true heart of the system and which every device in the system plugs
into. This includes the CPU via the front-side bus, system memory via the
memory bus, usually graphics via AGP, expansion via PCI and all I/O in the
form of the Southbridge (which was until recently just a PCI device itself).
This model uses multiple bus architectures that are incompatible with one
another. Aside from the difficulties inherent in this, it also makes it
difficult for a machine to scale well. The largest drawback, however, is
that the various busses easily become saturated. For example, a typical
Southbridge includes an EIDE ATA/100 controller and USB controller (in
addition to the other myriad devices). These two devices alone are require
more bandwidth than the PCI bus is capable of sustaining. With the
inclusion of FireWire, Ultra2 SCSI (let alone Ultra160 and Ultra320) and
audio it quickly becomes evident that the current shared-bus architecture
design methodology is inadequate and will only get worse as these peripheral
technologies improve. I won’t even discuss how bad it will get for video if
it continues to reside on AGP.
Sad fact lets move on to something better.
AmigaONE to be released next year : Comment 34 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by Brecht (darklite) on 30-Oct-2001 17:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 32 (Ugr):
>They should talk with MorphOS team, bplan, AROS people, Bernd Meyer and
Harald Frank, Amiga and UAE developers. They should talk and work together.
We need ONE Amiga operating system for PPC and x86 hardware.
We don't need two or more incompatible Amiga operating systems. We should
join ourselves, no split.
Exactly my thoughts.
>> Fingers crossed. But I'm afraid it won't happen. :(
>Yeah, you are right, all Amiga company sucks :(
I just hope the companies will take this chance to cooperate, finally. But Hyperion seem to be PPC-junkies, so I don't know :/
AmigaONE to be released next year : Comment 35 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by Brecht (darklite) on 30-Oct-2001 17:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 33 (TRUTHSAYER):
Merlancia stuff is overpriced, and is planned for release in 2002 or something. By then, that hardware will be outdated.
AmigaONE to be released next year : Comment 36 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 30-Oct-2001 17:24 GMT
I think it will be important that Amiga inc, Eyetech, Hyperion, The P96 Team, and the rest of their partners involved to be at WoA-SE and show the community that they are strong and united. People need to know that even if things are against us, they won't stop fighting and that it's about when, rather than if.
Get those contracts signed on November the 3rd and where halfway there, guys! :-)
AmigaONE to be released next year : Comment 37 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by Ugr on 30-Oct-2001 17:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 36 (Samface):
> I think it will be important that Amiga inc, Eyetech, Hyperion,
> The P96 Team, and the rest of their partners involved to be at WoA-SE
> and show the community that they are strong and united.
Where is Titan, MorphOS team, bplan? Who is strong and united?
AmigaONE to be released next year : Comment 38 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 30-Oct-2001 17:54 GMT
So, development has been halted since May and it's taken them FIVE MONTHS to let us know. And it was Eyetech who finally came clean and not Amiga Inc, and only, I suspect, because the deadline was approaching which forced their hand.
AmigaONE to be released next year : Comment 39 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 30-Oct-2001 17:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 27 (the man in the shadows):
>They had to withdraw the open offer as they were slapped with a heafty fine on >that.
Any first year business studies student knows that it's illegal to publicly advertise shares of a private comapany. Surely the experienced business men in charge of Amiga Inc should have known this.
AmigaONE to be released next year : Comment 40 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 30-Oct-2001 18:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 37 (Ugr):
"Where is Titan, MorphOS team, bplan? Who is strong and united?"
I'm *NOT* going to join another MorphOS vs. AmigaOS4 thread. Send a mail to Ralph Schmidt or something, I'm sure he'll tell you why they won't cooperate with Amiga inc. :-/
The partners involved in the AmigaOne/OS4 project need to show the community that they are strong and united. It's a shame the MorphOS team, Titan and bPlan are not a part of it.
AmigaONE to be released next year : Comment 41 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 30-Oct-2001 18:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (Graham):
>Heh, it will only be 2 months more out of date.
How many times in the past has an Amiga-related company announced "new year" when they actually mean July?
AmigaONE to be released next year : Comment 42 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 30-Oct-2001 18:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 40 (Samface):
>It's a shame the MorphOS team, Titan and bPlan are not a part of it
Part of /what/, exactly?
AmigaONE to be released next year : Comment 43 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by Nicolas Sallin on 30-Oct-2001 18:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 40 (Samface):
Samface,
Maybe you could swap all the names you mentioned... :)
AmigaONE to be released next year : Comment 44 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by smithy on 30-Oct-2001 18:21 GMT
There was a thread on ANN a few weeks back which posted details of what H&P had allegedly said on the OS4 topic. We can now see that this post was indeed correct. Now, all the BAFs can apologise to Ralph for slandering, and making personal insults towards him!!
AmigaONE to be released next year : Comment 45 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by Troels Ersking on 30-Oct-2001 18:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 37 (Ugr):
"Where is Titan, MorphOS team, bplan? Who is strong and united?"
Playing their own game? Or not invited I don't know.
I would like them all to work toghether but I guess it is impossible.
Troels Ersking
AmigaONE to be released next year : Comment 46 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by Navvie on 30-Oct-2001 18:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (Mikey C):
Relying on a good attendance? From what i've heard you've made back the costs already, what with exhibitors paying for their space and all, once one person walks through the door you made a profit... I'm impressed really :)
Seeing as you won't be able to buy an A1, anyone want to buy my BlizzPPC and BVision at WOA-SE? :-) come find me at the show, i won't be hard to miss i'm the one selling a BlizzPPC and a BVision. :)
AmigaONE to be released next year : Comment 47 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Hoggett on 30-Oct-2001 19:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 46 (Navvie):
That's not the issue. What's the point of the organisers making their money back, or even making a small profit, if the exhibitors don't?
These shows are about the community, developers, vendors and punters alike. If everyone is happy, it makes for a great show. If most people are happy, it's still a good show, but if only the organisers are happy, the show goes down as a disaster.
To be fair, I don't think Mikey & Co will be happy if they are the only ones making any profit from the show.
AmigaONE to be released next year : Comment 48 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by Tony Mulvihill on 30-Oct-2001 19:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 46 (Navvie):
Yeh but unless there is a good attendance and those attendies and willing to spen the dealers won't see any advantage of coming to a show next year.
Personally I like Amiga shows but the most fun I had was being part of the Amiga presence at the Comdex show in Australia. You people in England don't know how lucky you've got it. Small country, low shipping costs, dealers still with lots of Amiga goodies to sell. The few dealers here in Australia are usually as remote as England is to Australia. Plus if you want anything new it's usually quicker to order from Power direct as the Aust market is so small dealers have to wait till thay can make up a minimum order.
Also Australia tends to be ignored. Elbox don't want to send any goods to Aust. Our nominated Elbox dealer hasn'r been able to get anything from them for months despite having standing orders and they refused to deal with one person who actually wanted to bring a 20 tower kits and assorted bits and peices and had the money to pay up front.
We just cannot win. So don't take your Amiga dealers for granted. Support them and most importantly BUY fronm them. If they cannot make a living out of Amiga they will go else where.
cyas
AmigaONE to be released next year : Comment 49 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 30-Oct-2001 19:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 35 (Brecht (darklite)):
in reply to an idiot who thinks merlancia outdated, well yes to a certain degree but dam that shit that eyetech is sellign is even more so.
AmigaONE to be released next year : Comment 50 of 204ANN.lu
Posted by Keith_Blakemore-Noble on 30-Oct-2001 19:35 GMT
What a surprise.
So AmigaOS4 and the AmigaOne are now going to be just over a YEAR late at the current count (remember, folks, McEwen told us at AmiWest in 2000 that it would be on sale by Christmas 2000 or just thereafter...)
OK, explain how, given they knew the project was on hold through lack of funds in MAY, that McEwen told us all it would be in the shops by November?
Why does it take Eyetech to have to tell us why Ainc are not delivering (and then, I would suggest, only because it is 2 days from the publically stated release date)?
*sigh*
(Standing back to watch as AmiFan and SamFace flame me for not toing the Amiga line of blind devotion...)
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