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[News] Eyetech clarifies AmigaOne statementANN.lu
Posted on 31-Oct-2001 15:50 GMT by Teemu I. Yliselä126 comments
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Alan Redhouse of Eyetech clarified some of the confusion surrounding their latest AmigaOne statement in a comment here. I've posted it again below for those who don't read the comments section.

I try to use the clearest possible English in the status update but I have obviously failed to get the message across properly to everybody :(

Nowhere in my update does it say that OS4.0 had not started - and of course quite a lot of work *has* been done - but that the original plan required funding for OS4.0 to be *FINISHED*, and Amiga Inc had other priorities with their restricted funding. Bill has made no secret of the financial constraints that Amiga Inc were under at his public presentations at St Louis and Sacramento this year.

What I said is that WE decided to put development of the A1 on ice UNTIL we had a guarantee of a FINISH date of OS4.0. Of course development did not suddenly halt immediately, as we were all expecting Amiga Inc to obtain funding 'any day now'. But eventually other revenue-earning priorities took over.

I have absolutely no difficulties with any of Amiga's decisions or actions. They are exactly the same sort of business decisions that I would have made in their position.

We went into the AmigaOne project with our eyes wide open knowing the risks associated with events outside our control, and in no way hold Amiga Inc responsible for OUR decision to suspend development of the A1. In fact - again as I said in our update - we have all been trying very hard to obtain an all round satisfactory resolution to an OS4.0 completion date that would allow us to complete the A1 development and roll out into production. And no, there is no point in announcing that a potential crisis exists whilst there is still very real progress towards a resolution being made.

We obtained the agreement in principle earlier this week. This obtained, I wanted to set the record straight immediately to dispel some of the rumours and make sure that nobody made long journeys to WoA-SE on false expectations. As it is WoA-SE attendees will witness an historic contract signing.

Much of OS4.0 was planned to be implemented using the CSPPC in parallel with the development of the AmigaOne hardware. The decision to expand the market for OS4.0 was an integral part of the 'no upfront cost to Amiga' part of the agreement.

Hope this helps

Alan

Eyetech clarifies AmigaOne statement : Comment 1 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by IanG on 31-Oct-2001 16:34 GMT
There have been a number of negative and cynical comments regarding the news of the A1 delay. Who can blame people who have been waiting and waiting through promise after promise from a whole string of companies?
However, before everyone declares doom and gloom, they should read and understand the press release. Two month delay? That is nothing! Much worse happens in business R&D all the time. The facts put forth by Mr. Redhouse are consistent and have a ring of truth and honesty. In case nobody had noticed, the whole technical sector has been in a slump for the last 12 months, we have a looming threat of global recession, and large companies are making vast redundancies. For some small, self-funding setup to commit resource to an ambitious and risky project and only result in a delay is pretty good going by any standards. Anyone who believes they should have produced a state of the art system which blows everything else out of the water, and that within the original target timeframe, should get some experience of real life.
This applies regardless of whether or not you believe the A1 is a good idea, or which flavour of next-gen OS you favour. I'm just glad that a professional and clear statement was made, without all the backstabbing we have come to expect lately.
Eyetech clarifies AmigaOne statement : Comment 2 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by Cyberwlf on 31-Oct-2001 16:35 GMT
To add to the clarity here is some more information on the situation (responding to some comments ive seen):
"There has been a lot of work on OS4.0, but it was done on
CSPPC cards whilst waiting for the AmigaOne board to
come out.
This is not a case of Amiga screwing up and another company
riding in to save the day, so don't even go there. It is a case of
cutting the cloth you have to make the suit." - Fleecy (A1 Mailing list)
Eyetech clarifies AmigaOne statement : Comment 3 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by TimeWillTell on 31-Oct-2001 17:08 GMT
It is very reasurring to read statements made by Alan that dovetail completely
with what my personal observsations have been.
While Bill was very upbeat in Sacramento, he was very forthcoming about Amiga's
financial condition. There was of course an optomistic slant based on projected
revenues from the DE as well as the hope of venture capital. But for him to have
painted a bleak picture would have been irresponsibly damning to the continued
development of Amiga.
Of course there are no guarantees in these difficult times; the fact that Amiga
still exists is a powerful testimony to the quality of the effort and dedication
being put forth by Amiga Inc., Eyetech, and Hyperion.
Thanks again Alan for you clarification and good luck to us all.
Tom Eitel
Eyetech clarifies AmigaOne statement : Comment 4 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by JW on 31-Oct-2001 18:32 GMT
No real problem, it is stupid to try to have any Amiga hardware anyway. My money which was earmarked for new Amiga hardware is being spent today buying new Wintel hardware. I have waited years now and am needing something besides just more broken promises. Good greif, even the new AMIGA software won't run on Amiga hardware! How foolish. Continue to wait and come maybe in five or six years and tell us about your long awaited "upgrade".
Eyetech clarifies AmigaOne statement : Comment 5 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by David Scheibler on 31-Oct-2001 21:14 GMT
I still wonder how you can put up a timeline which states that the
hardware is delayed but will be ready Nov 1st end of June when you
stopped working on it...
And I still wonder how you can make a statement about a Nov 1st
release and even say that the delay is good becuase in this time you
can write more drivers when it is clear that there is no money for OS4
development...
And I still wonder why a H&P employee doesn't know a email address
to which you can send your OS3.9 bug-report to Amiga, Inc...
Eyetech clarifies AmigaOne statement : Comment 6 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by LadJet on 31-Oct-2001 21:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (JW):
No real problem, it is stupid to try to have any Amiga hardware anyway. My money which was earmarked for new Amiga hardware is being spent today buying new Wintel hardware. I have waited years now and am needing something besides just more broken promises....
You've waited years and now can't wait two more months... ? Seems silly to me.
Eyetech clarifies AmigaOne statement : Comment 7 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by Johan Rönnblom on 31-Oct-2001 22:22 GMT
Two months? Eh. Anyone willing to bet that it will be available on
January 1? Any takers?
Once again, I wish Eyetech & Co the best of luck, but wishful thinking
is not going to help. Early Q2 2002 might be possible, summer more
realistic.
Eyetech clarifies AmigaOne statement : Comment 8 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by kjetil on 31-Oct-2001 23:26 GMT
I have not seen any prove there even exit any Amiga OS 4.0,
I have not seen any working Amiga One, or even partly working one.
I'm not going to priorder any thing I don't know if works.
And I have being running i686/Linux for a long time,
as alternative to Amiga OS, In may experience there is
not many Amiga's ever after commandore that were finished,
BoXeR, ABox, Woker, Pios one, Transam all dead ends.
Only one has succeeded,
Draco and it to expensive
and it is outdated,
Eyetech clarifies AmigaOne statement : Comment 9 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by Brecht [darklite] on 01-Nov-2001 00:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (IanG):
If delays are so common, they should not have said it will be released early in 2002 :p
Eyetech clarifies AmigaOne statement : Comment 10 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 01-Nov-2001 00:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 9 (Brecht [darklite]):
Because every single IT company out there basically does so
Eyetech clarifies AmigaOne statement : Comment 11 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 01-Nov-2001 01:06 GMT
This isnt new what do they have that is new this is a mac plain and simple no its worse a pc. same setup. sad fact but this is shit
Eyetech clarifies AmigaOne statement : Comment 12 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by NM on 01-Nov-2001 01:18 GMT
Mr McEwen, 11 Jun 01 Executive Update:
"AmigaOne PPC /1200 - On Schedule and Rockin'
AmigaOS 4.0, and shortly thereafter AmigaOS 4.2 on schedule for release Summer of '01 and will offer the next generation of Amiga desktop - on PPC!"
http://www.amiga.com/corporate/amigadepartypack.shtml
Eyetech clarifies AmigaOne statement : Comment 13 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by Dave on 01-Nov-2001 06:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (Anonymous):
If only
Eyetech clarifies AmigaOne statement : Comment 14 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by Frederik Yssing on 01-Nov-2001 07:07 GMT
I am sticking with those who deliver.
bPlan and MorphOS
Sorry Eytech, but I have waited long enough.
Correct me if I am wrong, but was the AOne not promissed early 2001.
And now ti is early 2002.
*Sigh*
Any way, bPlan has, to my knowlegde, a working protopye Pegasos with MorphOS.
And Eyetech has not even presented a working prototype, just a lot of pictures.
I wish Eyetech all the best, I really did/do want an AOne.
Eyetech clarifies AmigaOne statement : Comment 15 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by AmiDelf on 01-Nov-2001 07:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (David Scheibler):
Well, it seems like H&P and Amiga INC. aint that friends
we all wanted them to be.. nor me.. Because I hate those
emulators.-.- It harms the Amiga developers and will not
force programmers to the new and "better" PPC platform.
<p>
Amithlon & AmigaXL should be putted down, until AmigaOS
at least sells! and Amiga INC's economy rises!! Thats
my view of the whole thing!
Eyetech clarifies AmigaOne statement : Comment 16 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by Solar (BAUD) on 01-Nov-2001 08:02 GMT
> Because I hate those
> emulators.-.- It harms the Amiga developers
How´s that?
> and will not
> force programmers to the new and "better" PPC platform.
"Forcing" is generally a bad idea. If developers think the PPC platform so superior, they´ll probably stick to MorphOS or MacOS since those are PPC operating systems, while AmigaOS 4.x is a transition path toward a (promised) HW independant OS. To that goal, "forcing" developers to a specific hardware is pretty counter-productive, don´t you think?
Eyetech clarifies AmigaOne statement : Comment 17 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by Exasperated on 01-Nov-2001 08:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (Solar (BAUD)):
No wonder people are so dissapointed all the time - does
anyone read press releases? Or do you just make it up
as you go along
The OS is not hardware independent, but features a hardware
independent layer. This layer is called the AmigaDE. The OS 5.x
will be PPC specific (although other targets will be a
possibility.)
Sheesh!
Eyetech clarifies AmigaOne statement : Comment 18 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 01-Nov-2001 09:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (Exasperated):
My thoughts exactly....
Eyetech clarifies AmigaOne statement : Comment 19 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by Jürgen Lange on 01-Nov-2001 10:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (AmiDelf):
> Amithlon & AmigaXL should be putted down, until
> AmigaOS at least sells! and Amiga INC's economy
> rises!! Thats my view of the whole thing!
I do not understand! Amiga Inc. are getting money for those AmigaOS XL sales.
Eyetech clarifies AmigaOne statement : Comment 20 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by Rik Sweeney on 01-Nov-2001 10:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (Jürgen Lange):
Are they? Are you sure?
Eyetech clarifies AmigaOne statement : Comment 21 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by David Scheibler on 01-Nov-2001 10:35 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (NM):
It's even more funny. A few weeks ago Mr Redhouse (you know the guy
all thanked becuase he says the 'truth') said that there may not be a
Nov 1st release but he's confident that there will be a November
release. Thanks Mr Redhouse for talking open to us...
Eyetech clarifies AmigaOne statement : Comment 22 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by Kay Are Ulvestad on 01-Nov-2001 10:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (Rik Sweeney):
I would assume they get something for it...after all, they do at least own the
AmigaOS brand name. I don't think H&P can use that without a permission/license
of some sort...
-
Kay
Eyetech clarifies AmigaOne statement : Comment 23 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by David Gerber on 01-Nov-2001 10:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (Kay Are Ulvestad):
> I would assume they get something for it...after all, they do at least own the
> AmigaOS brand name. I don't think H&P can use that without a
> permission/license of some sort...
H&P also includes AmiTCP illegaly with "OS" 3.9 and now with Amiga"OS"XL (yes, AmiTCP is distributed illegaly in those CDs as well). This shows a lot about the trustability of those people.
Eyetech clarifies AmigaOne statement : Comment 24 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by AmiDelf on 01-Nov-2001 11:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (Jürgen Lange):
Nah, Amiga INC aint getting money for Amithlon and
AmigaXL.. Thats Haage&Partner
Eyetech clarifies AmigaOne statement : Comment 25 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by adam ceremuga on 01-Nov-2001 11:04 GMT
i think eyetech did their best and it was amiga inc that has screwed up..
the communitity cannont live on empty promises, Samface are u prepared to wait another 6 months for amiga 0s4/amigaone?
amiga inc should hand the torch over to morphos and get hyperion to work with them..
eneough promises.. we need a real not emulated product to survive
Eyetech clarifies AmigaOne statement : Comment 26 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 01-Nov-2001 11:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (adam ceremuga):
"Samface are u prepared to wait another 6 months for amiga 0s4/amigaone?"
There's no option for me, either the Amiga will make a comeback or it won't. What I do in the meantime doesn't really matter.
"No option?" you might ask. Well, here's the so called options:
1. MorphOS - Don't make me spell it out for the billionth time. Oh well, what the heck; it's just an AmigaOS clone for the PPC with the features of Windows 95 added to it, it will never become a viable alternative on the market.
2. AROS - Well, pretty much the same thing here as with MorphOS except for that it's for x86 instead of PPC.
3. Amithlon/AmigaOSXL - An option even worse than AROS, it's based on emulation for christ sake!
Also, only the third and worst option is the only thing available *today*. So, for me it's either wait or give up on the Amiga market completely. Anyone got any better suggestions?
Eyetech clarifies AmigaOne statement : Comment 27 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by Solar (BAUD) on 01-Nov-2001 11:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (Exasperated):
@ Exasperated:
Don´t give the that "Sheesh", will you? That´s *my* trademark! ;-)
> No wonder people are so dissapointed all the time - does
> anyone read press releases?
Not only do I *read* them, I *translated* most of them, to the point that my translations usually showed up at the German side of www.amiga.com as "official" back then...
> Or do you just make it up as you go along
No, actually I ask those who should know, in this case Fleecy Moss and Gary Peake.
> The OS is not hardware independent (...). The OS 5.x
> will be PPC specific (although other targets will be a
> possibility.)
Early 2001, on asking "will OS 5.x be hardware independant", the answer by Amiga Inc. was "yes".
Late 2001, on asking "will OS 5.x be hardware independant" (asked after several confusing statements and rumors about), the answer was "that´s the whole idea, however we won´t commit right now since it´s too distant future and people are already flaming us like hell."
Well, perhaps not word by word, but - you know. ;-)
So please don´t accuse me of "making it all up as I go along". The statement that OS 5.x can only be PPC specific was made, repeatedly, by Mr. Ralph Schmidt, who´s hardly the person to ask for objective statements as soon as Amiga Inc., Haage & Partner or PPC operating systems in general are part of the equation.
> Sheesh!
Exactly.
Eyetech clarifies AmigaOne statement : Comment 28 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by Brecht [darklite] on 01-Nov-2001 11:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 26 (Samface):
>1. MorphOS - Don't make me spell it out for the billionth time. Oh well, what the heck; it's just an AmigaOS clone for the PPC with the features of Windows 95 added to it, it will never become a viable alternative on the market.
How does MorphOS differ from OS4 other than not having the name 'AmigaOS'?
>2. AROS - Well, pretty much the same thing here as with MorphOS except for that it's for x86 instead of PPC.
It's not like MorphOS as it doesn't have 68k emulation. Amithlon + AROS would be like MorphOS.
>3. Amithlon/AmigaOSXL - An option even worse than AROS, it's based on emulation for christ sake!
You just don't get it, do you? I suggest you read the few comments Bill Hoggett added to the Amithlon.net thread, over and over if you have to. Maybe he can enlighten you where I have tried and failed.
Eyetech clarifies AmigaOne statement : Comment 29 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by Solar (BAUD) on 01-Nov-2001 11:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 26 (Samface):
And yet another time, at the bottom line, I have to agree with Samface. Hey, Samface, what´s up? It was always so enlightening to disagree with you. ;-)
Eyetech clarifies AmigaOne statement : Comment 30 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 01-Nov-2001 11:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 28 (Brecht [darklite]):
*Sigh*... Here we go again:
>>1. MorphOS - Don't make me spell it out for the billionth time. Oh well, what the heck; it's just an AmigaOS clone for the PPC with the features of Windows 95 added to it, it will never become a viable alternative on the market.
>How does MorphOS differ from OS4 other than not having the name 'AmigaOS'?
OS4 is just the first step towards a completely different goal, read more about it on Amiga.com... (I'm tired of trying to state "facts" around here since everyone will flame every single detail that is besides the point anyway...)
>>2. AROS - Well, pretty much the same thing here as with MorphOS except for that it's for x86 instead of PPC.
>It's not like MorphOS as it doesn't have 68k emulation. Amithlon + AROS would be like MorphOS.
I said pretty much the same thing, goddamnit! Do you get a kick out of picking on "besides the point" - details?
>>3. Amithlon/AmigaOSXL - An option even worse than AROS, it's based on emulation for christ sake!
>You just don't get it, do you? I suggest you read the few comments Bill Hoggett added to the Amithlon.net thread, over and over if you have to. Maybe he can enlighten you where I have tried and failed.
AmithlonEmulator
What is there to argue about?
Eyetech clarifies AmigaOne statement : Comment 31 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by Brecht [darklite] on 01-Nov-2001 12:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 30 (Samface):
>>How does MorphOS differ from OS4 other than not having the name 'AmigaOS'?
>OS4 is just the first step towards a completely different goal, read more about it on Amiga.com...
With the goal being OS5? OS5 will still be a PPC OS, just like MorphOS *IS*.
>(I'm tired of trying to state "facts" around here since everyone will flame every single detail that is besides the point anyway...)
The problem is that you always seem to be totally ignorant about the facts and miss (deliberately, I'm starting to think) 90% of all points made.
>>3. Amithlon/AmigaOSXL - An option even worse than AROS, it's based on emulation for christ sake!
>AmithlonEmulator. What is there to argue about?
You just don't want to listen to what others have to say, that makes a mature discussion impossible.
Eyetech clarifies AmigaOne statement : Comment 32 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 01-Nov-2001 12:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (Solar (BAUD)):
"And yet another time, at the bottom line, I have to agree with Samface. Hey, Samface, what´s up? It was always so enlightening to disagree with you. ;-)"
I don't know, perhaps I'm getting a little battle weary, or maybe I'm just becoming wise and experienced. ;-P
Come to think of it, the less we talk about details, the less we disagree. I know some people around here that could learn from that... but they probably won't. :-/
Eyetech clarifies AmigaOne statement : Comment 33 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 01-Nov-2001 12:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 30 (Samface):
Aos 4.2 is meant to run hosted AmigaDE....
Anything that a Windows or linux or PDA user cannot do?
Eyetech clarifies AmigaOne statement : Comment 34 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 01-Nov-2001 12:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 31 (Brecht [darklite]):
>>>How does MorphOS differ from OS4 other than not having the name 'AmigaOS'?
>>OS4 is just the first step towards a completely different goal, read more about it on Amiga.com...
>With the goal being OS5? OS5 will still be a PPC OS, just like MorphOS *IS*.
I said: "READ MORE ABOUT IT ON AMIGA.COM!"
Sheesh(TM)...
>>(I'm tired of trying to state "facts" around here since everyone will flame every single detail that is besides the point anyway...)
>The problem is that you always seem to be totally ignorant about the facts and miss (deliberately, I'm starting to think) 90% of all points made.
Forget about the facts, what's your point?
>>>3. Amithlon/AmigaOSXL - An option even worse than AROS, it's based on emulation for christ sake!
>>AmithlonEmulator. What is there to argue about?
>You just don't want to listen to what others have to say, that makes a mature discussion impossible.
Ok, let's make the discussion simple enough for a 3year old to understand.
True or false, Amithlon is an emulator?
Eyetech clarifies AmigaOne statement : Comment 35 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by Richie on 01-Nov-2001 12:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (AmiDelf):
So AI should stop selling it's money making products
during a cash crunch? WHAT IS THAT?
They have to finance this PPC baloney.
Eyetech clarifies AmigaOne statement : Comment 36 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 01-Nov-2001 12:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 28 (Brecht [darklite]):
>How does MorphOS differ from OS4 other than not having the name 'AmigaOS'?
This post is not meant to be a flame, but anyway....... I know this is weird thinking, but...
AmigaOS in MorphOS runs on top of another kernel (Quark), true?
Like the AmigaOS in Amithlon runs on top of Linux kernel.
Except even more so ...erm... hehe, huh.
AmigaOS4.x is always "pure" AmigaOS without "foreign" parts.
Another view:
MorphOS contains more native PPC code than OS4.0 will.
I would quess the situation will eventually be so that OS4.2/4.5 will be fully native PPC, while MorphOS quys still do not have the access to AmigaOS source code to re-compile it.
hmmm... and as long as it does not contain re-compiled AmigaOS code (or 100% identical interfaces between SW elements), it is "just" an emulation of the real thing. Emulation that might be good enough, though.
IMO: Time will tell if Quark beats native Amiga exec on PPC someday... If it is good enough and next gen AmigaOS/HW does not appear, I will buy it (MorphOS/QuarkThing).
btw. is Quark source code freely available?
and which one has faster task switching on 68k?
Eyetech clarifies AmigaOne statement : Comment 37 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by Brecht [darklite] on 01-Nov-2001 12:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 34 (Samface):
>>>>How does MorphOS differ from OS4 other than not having the name 'AmigaOS'?
>>>OS4 is just the first step towards a completely different goal, read more about it on Amiga.com...
>>With the goal being OS5? OS5 will still be a PPC OS, just like MorphOS *IS*.
>I said: "READ MORE ABOUT IT ON AMIGA.COM!"
Again, you cannot give any decent argumentation. What am I supposed to be looking for on amiga.com?
OS4 is a migration path to a PPC native AmigaOS, just like MorphOS is.
>>>(I'm tired of trying to state "facts" around here since everyone will flame every single detail that is besides the point anyway...)
>>The problem is that you always seem to be totally ignorant about the facts and miss (deliberately, I'm starting to think) 90% of all points made.
>Forget about the facts, what's your point?
MorphOS is as much AmigaOS as AmigaOS4 is.
If Windows would be developed by, say, H&P, wouldn't it still be Windows?
>>>AmithlonEmulator. What is there to argue about?
>>You just don't want to listen to what others have to say, that makes a mature discussion impossible.
>Ok, let's make the discussion simple enough for a 3year old to understand.
Now you're trying to intimidate me because you fail to support your views with decent argumentation.
>True or false, Amithlon is an emulator?
It's not that simple. If you answer yes to this question, you'd have to answer the same to:
Is MorphOS an emulator?
Is AmigaOS4 an emulator?
Amithlon has an 68k emulator for backwards compatibility, just like AmigaOS4/5.
Amithlon has the option of running CPU native code, just like AmigaOS4/5.
Amithlon has native hardware support, just like AmigaOS4/5.
...
Eyetech clarifies AmigaOne statement : Comment 38 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by Richie on 01-Nov-2001 12:35 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (Rik Sweeney):
AmigaXL's street price is 150USD.
Part of that is licensing fees to A.I.
That is unless A.I. is licensing the
OS and ROM for free.
Eyetech clarifies AmigaOne statement : Comment 39 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by Graham on 01-Nov-2001 12:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (Solar (BAUD)):
Yeah, same here. The fact is that if AmigaInc. don't deliver in the end (e.g., in 6 months time), then we face the options that SamFace described, which I pretty much agree with.<p>
AmigaInc (and AROS) are writing an OS that will be able to run on various platforms. They are not targetting PPC exclusively for OS5, although the only other options appear to be the Hammer architecture, USIII or Itanium as opposed to the G5 (OS5 is 64-bit IIRC). This is more exciting in the long term than MorphOS (IN MY OPINION, YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO DISAGREE WITH MY OPINION, BUT IN THE END IT IS AN OPINION, OKAY?) although MorphOS does appear to be offering more in the nearer term. The Pegasos looks good as well.
I'm am getting a feeling that Eyetech should have designed a standalone board for PPC, and put the A1200 interface logic onto a PCI card instead of on the motherboard. But I don't know what the internal reasons for this were - they obviously know a lot more than me regarding the design decisions.
AROS is fun though - but slowly developing (note to AROS: Please renew your domain name NOW! - it is 40-days expired) because of the lack of resources. It isn't tied to any particular architecture either, so there is a good chance that it will run on non-x86 machines natively at some point in the future, if it is viable. Maybe it could also become a PDA OS - I would like something decent on my Palm! Work is snailing along regarding this.
Amithlon is just an emulator with native hooks for applications if they want to use them. Very clever, and fast for OS compliant applications. Good for a laptop if you want a portable Amiga.
Eyetech clarifies AmigaOne statement : Comment 40 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by Brecht [darklite] on 01-Nov-2001 12:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 36 (priest):
>AmigaOS in MorphOS runs on top of another kernel (Quark), true?
Like the AmigaOS in Amithlon runs on top of Linux kernel.
Except even more so ...erm... hehe, huh.
AmigaOS4.x is always "pure" AmigaOS without "foreign" parts.
It makes no difference for developers or users (not sure about developing for MorphOS though). Read my arguments in the Amithlon.net thread (near the bottom).
>MorphOS contains more native PPC code than OS4.0 will.
I would quess the situation will eventually be so that OS4.2/4.5 will be fully native PPC, while MorphOS quys still do not have the access to AmigaOS source code to re-compile it.
The MorphOS team has access to the AROS sources.
>IMO: Time will tell if Quark beats native Amiga exec on PPC someday... If it is good enough and next gen AmigaOS/HW does not appear, I will buy it (MorphOS/QuarkThing).
I just hope there won't be too much of a split. API compatibility, and maybe even full source compatibility would be good.
Eyetech clarifies AmigaOne statement : Comment 41 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by AdmV on 01-Nov-2001 12:47 GMT
I am still awaiting at least some form of acknoledgement from Amiga.
This is no disrespect to Alan Redhouse, who has been upstanding and open.
But sadly we have a situation where the "k"ommunity line is that Unless Amiga say it is true, it should be be ignored.
That means I personally have to await their statement to know if something is true or not. Actually I don't because what they choose to do is leave a large vacuum and say nothing leaving even their close associates and partners without a leg to stand on.
Therefore I choose to take Alan's statement as the current situation, and I have to take the continued silence from Amiga as something else and try and put 2+ 2 together.
The lack of professionalism and open transparent communication and so forth within the 'k'ommunity is a great shame.
It does nothing for the companies involved.
It does nothing for the customer base
It does nothing for the future
Lastly, I still see the very sad infighting amongst individuals and companies who despite having numerous brighter people than myself, cannot seem to see that everything they do, or are involved in, is a large symbiotic relationship.
If one guy fucks another guy up, yes, for a short period there may be a benefit, but in the end you just end up with a worse outlook as a whole.
The reborn mother company should have heralded a new united effort to rebuild some platform and reunite the many companies in a common goal. Even with competing products it should have had and been benefitial to all parties who have products or developments in the platform area.
Instead all I see is a lack of professionalism, and companies desperate to kill each other off. In addition to that there is clearly a situation where people and companies are being played off one another, and a total lack of anything that brings people and the market/platform forward or together.
I really hope that Alan and Eyetech manage to produce their product. My fear is what will they do once they have completed the most painful part of their process, and perhaps find no market, and no users to then return that investment and perhaps even find that the partnerships they needed to produce other things have not done so.
Anyway, although Alan looks forward to an Historic signing, I just have a few reservations.
What of the companies who are not involved ? Do they have an opportunity to come on board within the historic steps, or are they excluded >?
Anyway, its clear to me now that with OS4 loosing its way, and with a change from H&P to Hyperion, there is a large deal here that is clearly unknown, and I now see a future where the last few companies in this market are in a dreadful position.
I would urge as I have in the past that people open ideas rather than close them.
If you want to update the OS, allow others to join.
If you provide updated hardware, either produce drivers, or produce an open method of doing the same.
If you produce hardware, make it open so that more software runs on it.
In essence the mother company should be doing all these things.
All I see is the silence.
AdmV
Eyetech clarifies AmigaOne statement : Comment 42 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by Graham on 01-Nov-2001 12:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 37 (Brecht [darklite]):
>True or false, Amithlon is an emulator?
- It's not that simple. If you answer yes to this question, you'd have to
- answer the same to:
- Is MorphOS an emulator?
- Is AmigaOS4 an emulator?
- Amithlon has an 68k emulator for backwards compatibility, just like
- AmigaOS4/5. Amithlon has the option of running CPU native code, just like
- AmigaOS4/5. Amithlon has native hardware support, just like AmigaOS4/5.
Amithlon does not have native hardware support - that is provided by Linux, and abstracted by Amithlon. Amithlon does not contain the drivers, the hosting OS does.
So I would say: Amithlon is an emulation. MorphOS is possibly an emulation. AmigaOS 4.5+ (pure PPC) is possibly an emulation. AmigaOS 4.0 is an emulation of a 68k, but with the drivers and other system components potentially running in 68k, not PPC. A bad diagram would be:
Amiga OS 4.x
+--------------------------------------+
| Applications | Application Layer
+-------------------+------+-----------+
| 68k OS components | | Native | OS Layer
+-------------------+ | OS | Drivers, etc.
| 68k emulator | Components|
+--------------------------+-----------+
| PPC Processor | CPU
+--------------------------------------+
whereas MorphOS (and Amithlon, AmigaOS 5?) are:
+-----------------------------------+
| MorphOS Applications | <-- including AmigaOS & 68k emulator
+-----------------------------------+
| MorphOS |
+-----------------------------------+
| PPC |
+-----------------------------------+
To the best of my knowledge anyway - I am willing to be politely told that it is different.
Eyetech clarifies AmigaOne statement : Comment 43 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by Graham on 01-Nov-2001 12:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 42 (Graham):
Cut and paste the *HTML source code* for the diagrams into a monospaced font text editor... Sorry.
Eyetech clarifies AmigaOne statement : Comment 44 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by John Block on 01-Nov-2001 13:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 39 (Graham):
I asked Bill during the exhibition online chat about PalmOS and he
replied to the efect that amiga will not run on the present hardware but
would on the next generation. He used the term "replacing" in regards to the
software.
Eyetech clarifies AmigaOne statement : Comment 45 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by David Scheibler on 01-Nov-2001 13:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 43 (Graham):
Even if I look at your diagram in a editor, I don't get it, sorry.
AmigaOS4 is: AmigaOS3 ported to PPC with PPC native components (aka
kickstart ported to PPC) plus 68k emulation.
AmigaOS5 is: new kernel running an AmigaOS4 sandbox.
MorphOS is: new kernel running an AmigaOS sandbox with PPC native
components (aka kickstart ported to PPC) plus 68k emulation.
Eyetech clarifies AmigaOne statement : Comment 46 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by Graham on 01-Nov-2001 13:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 44 (John Block):
Yes, that would be because of the ARM processors being used, as opposed to the slower DragonBall processors which are mostly 68k compliant. However AROS is trying to run on the older hardware although it needs some apps obviously - these are what sell PDAs, not the OS.
Hmmm, anyone fancy rewriting YAM to support a 160x160 screen size? Tiny fonts, etc? Eek. Stick on ultra-cut-down versions of AmigaWriter and Voyager/AWeb and some calendaring software and you are nearly there. PerfectPaint? :)
Eyetech clarifies AmigaOne statement : Comment 47 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by Brecht [darklite] on 01-Nov-2001 13:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 42 (Graham):
>Amithlon does not have native hardware support - that is provided by Linux, and abstracted by Amithlon. Amithlon does not contain the drivers, the hosting OS does.
While the P96 drivers use the linux framebuffer device, the sound and network cards are natively supported through a pci library.
I see the use of linux drivers as an advantage, saves alot of.
>So I would say: Amithlon is an emulation. MorphOS is possibly an emulation. AmigaOS 4.5+ (pure PPC) is possibly an emulation. AmigaOS 4.0 is an emulation of a 68k, but with the drivers and other system components potentially running in 68k, not PPC. A bad diagram would be:
They are all partly emulation, which is needed for backward compatibility.
Eyetech clarifies AmigaOne statement : Comment 48 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by John Block on 01-Nov-2001 13:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 41 (AdmV):
Amiga.com is about the positive things Amiga are doing, they have achieved
a lot.
That is what investers and others checking out the business should see.
Eyetech clarifies AmigaOne statement : Comment 49 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by Alan Croft on 01-Nov-2001 13:15 GMT
Oh well, I was just hoping for once Amiga would be on schedule. It would bring back some confidence especially after BoXer...
I'm just glad they kept the old Amiga spirit going with a new machine. Rather than Amiga returning as software only.
Eyetech clarifies AmigaOne statement : Comment 50 of 126ANN.lu
Posted by Graham on 01-Nov-2001 13:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 45 (David Scheibler):
I mean that basically in AmigaOS4, the 68k emulator is a core part of the OS, whereas in MorphOS, Amithlon, AmigaOS5? is actually a program with an AmigaOS API wrapper running on top of the underlying OS.
Not saying that one is better than the other of course, except the AmigaOS4 has OS components in 68k, hence they run on top of the 68k emulator in the same manner as 68k applications, and the 68k emulator is a core part of the OS, and the API is part of the OS, not a wrapper around a different API (that could be running on top of the 68k emulator).
It is all a matter of semantics, and not worth bothering about. If it works well in the end, it will work well... :)
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