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[News] Fleecy comments on outsourcing AmigaOSANN.lu
Posted on 06-Nov-2001 14:06 GMT by Teemu I. Yliselš51 comments
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Read Fleecy's comments from the AmigaOne mailinglist below.

Yes Amiga is in control of OS4.0 - we have merely outsourced the project management. I am in daily contact with Hyperion and a feature document and deadlines and timescales are mulled over in minute detail.

As I explained at the show, this deal is more about freeing Amiga up to work on the SGA (Second Generation Amiga). AmigaOS4.0 was always more to do with getting a PPC based OS working on very specific PPC HW, and we were wasting a lot of time bouncing backwards and forwards. With the outsourcing agreement, the implementation has been moved much closer to the first piece of HW itself.

Fleecy comments on outsourcing AmigaOS : Comment 1 of 51ANN.lu
Posted by Dave on 06-Nov-2001 13:11 GMT
Oh no, another anti Amiga inc flame war starteth I think. :-(
Dave.
Fleecy comments on outsourcing AmigaOS : Comment 2 of 51ANN.lu
Posted by Brecht [darklite] on 06-Nov-2001 13:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Dave):
/me reloads
Fleecy comments on outsourcing AmigaOS : Comment 3 of 51ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 06-Nov-2001 14:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Brecht [darklite]):
<me takes of gloves and prepares anthrax spray>
Fleecy comments on outsourcing AmigaOS : Comment 4 of 51ANN.lu
Posted by Dave on 06-Nov-2001 14:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (Anonymous):
Supply a dtd or else your malformed XML will not protect you.
Fleecy comments on outsourcing AmigaOS : Comment 5 of 51ANN.lu
Posted by AlBolone on 06-Nov-2001 14:37 GMT
Actually I think they should have done that / working focused like that a long time ago. I can't prove they didn't, but where we are now shows me enough. And this is not flaming but plain realisticly spoken!
Fleecy comments on outsourcing AmigaOS : Comment 6 of 51ANN.lu
Posted by gz on 06-Nov-2001 14:39 GMT
way to go fleecy, LOL!
he actually is quitly admitting that they haven't done anything to bring us AOS4.0 and instead have been "jumping back and forth" all this time.
Also he is saying he's NOW in contact with hyperion and scheduling timetables and deadlines for the project with them. A thing that should have F***ing been done SEVEN months AGO!
I piss on you AMIGA INC. And before someone starts critisizing my comment, im going to remind that everyone, myself included is entitled for their opinions.
and those opinions are not meant to represent the opinion of others.
Having said that im also going to say that I would love to support AI with amigaone and with their new os, but how on earth can ANYONE do this if NOTHING hits the shelves!?!?!
instead they have created a vaccuum into an already miniscule market by giving us pr talk about something that isnt even there, and creating false release dates which they will not comment on about untill last minute and then give another one saying "THis one will be the one we deliver!"
Sorry if I have foam coming out of my mouth, but I have waited for the comeback of amiga for sooo long and have updated my miggy with everything thats out there and have spent huge amounts of cash supporting the platform in the hope I would at least get truth out of the horses mouth!
whew! I hope u read this fleecy... and give a second thought about it.
Fleecy comments on outsourcing AmigaOS : Comment 7 of 51ANN.lu
Posted by Bertrand PRESLES on 06-Nov-2001 14:42 GMT
Hello,
OH NO! Not a fight again!!
STOP posting fighting comments PLEASE!
Thanks a lot to people who respect the other and the PEACE :-)
Peace and love my brothers :-)
Bye
Fleecy comments on outsourcing AmigaOS : Comment 8 of 51ANN.lu
Posted by Dave on 06-Nov-2001 15:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (gz):
Expected gambit number 37... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZ
Fleecy comments on outsourcing AmigaOS : Comment 9 of 51ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 06-Nov-2001 15:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (gz):
" Sorry if I have foam coming out of my mouth, "
Heh & Hah & LOL!
During the past few days Amiga community has given me two phenomenoms:
1) Smoke rising from my ears.
2) Salty water dripping from my eyes.
Damn, I used to be happy about the community.
Now I just pray for sanity for some people.
Fleecy comments on outsourcing AmigaOS : Comment 10 of 51ANN.lu
Posted by Martin Norman on 06-Nov-2001 15:31 GMT
I know this might sound stupid and I'm NOT starting another flame but
wouldn't it be easier to outsource Amiga OS4.0 to the MorphOS team
based on their existing work and simply write a DE Player for that
(MorphOS that is)?
I mean after all at least we'd have something to use pretty soon
rather than waiting for the contractual details of OS4.0 to be sorted
and they wait for development. To be honest when I first read about
MorphOS I thought "What a good idea for PPC owners. This means that
Amiga can focus on DE".
Anyway, NO MORE FLAMING...
Bye, Martin ;)
Fleecy comments on outsourcing AmigaOS : Comment 11 of 51ANN.lu
Posted by AlBolone on 06-Nov-2001 15:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (gz):
Complete agreement!!! Thanks for getting this out for me... including the foam ;¨) !!
Fleecy comments on outsourcing AmigaOS : Comment 12 of 51ANN.lu
Posted by Graham on 06-Nov-2001 16:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (gz):
- Also he is saying he's NOW in contact with hyperion and scheduling
- timetables and deadlines for the project with them. A thing that should
- have F***ing been done SEVEN months AGO!
No he isn't. He is saying what he says - that every timetables, deadline, etc is gone over in detail with Hyperion. Doesn't say that it started yesterday - it could have been happening for months for all you know.
Amiga are working on DE. It was with their own concern for the Amiga community that they worked on AmigaOS4. I bet they wish they hadn't, and that they had just dumped the community, what there is of it anyway. AmigaDE is the technology for the future, AmigaOS 4/5 is just a native OS base for it providing drivers and an interface to the hardware for desktop and server systems.
As I have said before, whatever anyone from Amiga say, someone will twist into their own agenda. It is best for Amiga to not say anything and for the community to stay in the dark, but then other people with agendas come along and spread FUD and rumours about Amiga being broke/dead/out-of-business/no-phones. BLATANT LIES. Amiga can't win with this community - I suggest they release a statement saying "F*** You, Community" and go and work on something else that they want, not what the community wants.
Do you think that Bill, Fleecy, Gary, etc haven't got a lot of their own money, time, resources in Amiga Inc. They want it to succeed as much as any true Amiga supporter does. Wow, so some software got delayed. Like that doesn't happen every day in the software industry. Get a grip.
Fleecy comments on outsourcing AmigaOS : Comment 13 of 51ANN.lu
Posted by AlBolone on 06-Nov-2001 17:07 GMT
@ Graham:
No discussion about the importance of AmigaDE! But now tell me what they have archieved with the DE by now (in words: two years!!)?? There's a DE player and an SDK - both barely more than TAO code! Still missing some updates that were scheduled for the end of last year (3D and stuff). Now anybody tell me what they really got done to make me believe in their abalities! I can't see a thing that justifies the common "But Amiga said they would..." attitude of the fellow brand followers, b/c Amiga just said they would...
Talking about Amiga is like talking about the vacuum, that got mentioned before... and I wouldn't be half sick of it if they wouldn't have done so much talk about it!!
P.S. Fleecy: Where's your pathfinder systems, Amy and whatever illusionary definitions you guys have been talking about the last two years... ?? You should read sometimes what you're talking about!
Fleecy comments on outsourcing AmigaOS : Comment 14 of 51ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 06-Nov-2001 17:18 GMT
Don't forget it was also more important to H&P to release AmigaOSXL, than to work on AOS4. Sure, they needed incomes.
Fleecy comments on outsourcing AmigaOS : Comment 15 of 51ANN.lu
Posted by John Block on 06-Nov-2001 18:14 GMT
Ah!
When can we buy SGA (Second Generation Amiga) ? :)
Fleecy comments on outsourcing AmigaOS : Comment 16 of 51ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 06-Nov-2001 18:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (John Block):
Announced December 2002
Moved to March 2003
Feb 28th 11:54pm announcement of more delays
Pushed back to July 2003
Another delay caused by somebody wanting backwards compatability with OS3.1, moved to Xmas 2003....
God I wish I get proved wrong!
Seriously, we should support Amiga, they're actually trying to make something where others only wanted Intellectual Property... so sorry for the blatant sarcasm above.... :) Peace all.
Fleecy comments on outsourcing AmigaOS : Comment 17 of 51ANN.lu
Posted by Paul Laycock on 06-Nov-2001 19:09 GMT
Personally, I feel that Amiga Inc. have done a great job in the past
year or so that they've been with us. They have released more products
than any of the prevoius owners have, and actually have stuff in
development - more than can be said about Escom/Gateway...
Fleecy - I believe that you guys can do it. Ignore the idiots who just
want a fight. Viva Amiga!
Fleecy comments on outsourcing AmigaOS : Comment 18 of 51ANN.lu
Posted by AlBolone on 06-Nov-2001 19:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (Paul Laycock):
@ Paul:
"Fleecy - I believe that you guys can do it. Ignore the idiots who just
want a fight. Viva Amiga!"
Another example for the most narrow minded black&white perspective in this whole conflict! "Not agreeing with AIncwanting a fight" -> how poor!! Having a (very) critical position towards Amiga Inc. is something that comes from the part of your mind that's responsible for objectivism and realism! And the only reason why I express my serious doubts is why I am still an Amigan: 100% care for the system!
You're satisfied with their archievements - well, lucky you! Lean back and set your alarm for 2003! I'm not measuring Amiga with Gateway or Escom, but with professional competition of today, because Amiga itself has no bonus in the IT market! I don't expect a new Amiga tomorrow with worldwide ads in TV and print like 10 years ago! But I *expect* them to have a clear idea of what they want a how to get there - as I can expect from professionals! But they've come up with "back and forth", juggling weird visions, releasing some code once in a while (they seem to haven't really produced themselfs) and 100 speeches about Amigas brightest future!
If they'd tell me the new Amiga's coming end 2002, but they have everything set up, a precise vision, definate schedules, the right people under contract, the partners ready and are prepared to carefully re-establish the brand in peoples minds, plus giving the public a monthly serious/honest (!!) progress report about it to build confidence, I would say "YEAHHHHH!!"...
But fact is, they've done a lousy job and every professional in the market will agree on that! Amiga's not a bit further than 2000 and not mentioning it in childish blindness will just ensure it's gonna stay that way!! Not with me!
Fleecy comments on outsourcing AmigaOS : Comment 19 of 51ANN.lu
Posted by Smithy on 06-Nov-2001 21:39 GMT
"Yes Amiga is in control of OS4.0 - we have merely outsourced the project management. "
Ahhhh... 2 contraductory statements in one sentence - at least Fleecy hasn't forgotten that good old AmigaOS-efficiency!
Fleecy comments on outsourcing AmigaOS : Comment 20 of 51ANN.lu
Posted by smithy on 06-Nov-2001 21:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Dave):
> Oh no, another anti Amiga inc flame war starteth I think. :-(
If you have a quick look at the threads over the past week or 2 containing "flame wars" (your words) you'll see that most of the posts are actually quite well thought out. I say most, because the rest consist of posts like yours, endlessly whinging and whining because Amiga Inc might be subjected to something so evil as a bit of objectivity.
In fact, these kind of posts - I'll christen them the W&Ws (whingers and whiners) - are worse than the now few true flamers. The W&Ws offer tedium and crud and cover up the good messages, the W&Ws don't like long threads, but make a signficant percentage of posts to them, and the W&Ws don't like discussion because they fear it might provoke thoughts.
Fleecy comments on outsourcing AmigaOS : Comment 21 of 51ANN.lu
Posted by smithy on 06-Nov-2001 21:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (smithy):
Heh, after just provoking some thoughts in my own head from my own language I have seen a parallel to Orwell's 1984 here; the BAFs are the Party, the W&Ws are the thought-police, the objective-people are Winston. Even newspeak and doublethink are in existance.
Fleecy comments on outsourcing AmigaOS : Comment 22 of 51ANN.lu
Posted by Keith_Blakemore-Noble on 06-Nov-2001 22:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (Paul Laycock):
Paul - you seem to be forgetting quite a bit there.
So Escom had nothing in development, eh?
Then I guess the Walker we all saw at WOA et al was just a figment of our collective imaginations, huh?
I guess the Escom development plans to migrate the Amiga from 68k to PPC were also just myths, right? Where do you think the original concept for the PowerUp cards came from? Escom and Phase5 in discussion. The PowerUp was to be an interim step, enabling Escom to migrate the Amiga to native PPC. When Escom went under, P5 decided to continue the PowerUp on their own.
When you think about it, the fact that Amiga is finally going PPC is all down to Escom, really.
Sure, GatesWay did almpost nothing (other than grudgingly release OS3.5, developed by others - kinda like OS3.9 now), but Escom actually had development underway before Escom went bankrupt (for reasons NOT related to Amiga).
Fleecy comments on outsourcing AmigaOS : Comment 23 of 51ANN.lu
Posted by Paul Laycock on 06-Nov-2001 22:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (AlBolone):
This narrow mind I have has been finally honed thanks to the totally
unprofessional ways in which the MorphOS team have portrayed
themselves on this (and other) website.
Fleecy comments on outsourcing AmigaOS : Comment 24 of 51ANN.lu
Posted by Paul Laycock on 06-Nov-2001 22:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (Keith_Blakemore-Noble):
I didn't say development, I said released. I'm sure that, if Escom had
somehow gone on for a further year or so, products may have been
released, but as it stands, re-manufacturing the A1200 & 4000T was
about it...
Fleecy comments on outsourcing AmigaOS : Comment 25 of 51ANN.lu
Posted by Brecht [darklite] on 07-Nov-2001 00:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (Keith_Blakemore-Noble):
>When you think about it, the fact that Amiga is finally going PPC is all down to Escom, really.
Damn you, Escom!
Why didn't they choose x86? ;)
Fleecy comments on outsourcing AmigaOS : Comment 26 of 51ANN.lu
Posted by gz on 07-Nov-2001 01:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (Graham):
- Also he is saying he's NOW in contact with hyperion and scheduling
- timetables and deadlines for the project with them. A thing that should
- have F***ing been done SEVEN months AGO!
>No he isn't. He is saying what he says - that every timetables, deadline, etc >is gone over in detail with Hyperion. Doesn't say that it started yesterday - >it could have been happening for months for all you know.
True, I don't know. But tell me this. If they had been planning their schedules for months now already, wouldn't you think the project of creating a new os for us would be underway in other form than just on a piece of a4 on fleecy's table?
>Amiga are working on DE.
That's what they are supposed to be doing but actually what we have seen this far has very little to do with Amiga.inc. Lets face it the sdk and de player are almost the only things AI have been able to come up in 2 years. And even these are 90% work of others (TAO)
Basically in my opinion, what AI have done is that they have merely compiled tao's stuff on cd's and are selling them to ppl eagerly waiting for updates in the sdk technology so that they could start doing some REAL work instead of just creating new TETRIS clones.
These updates take A LOT of time however... Why? Because it's tao's stuff and AI lacks the ability to create solid updates for sdk. Therefore they just spend most of their time waiting if tao group would add something new to their technology so that AI could copy and paste that on a new update for their MIGHTY sdk.
Im surprised if they even have 1 coder working in house for AI's projects.
However even I sound like I wouldn't appreciate their work, I do. I think the sdk is a good product, but it needs to be updated so that ppl can get creative with it. And that's not going to happen unless AI start contributing to the project in other way's than just compiling tao stuff on cd's
Tao has their own agendas for their product and those agendas don't co exist well with AI -hence the reason why we have so little in 2 years time.
Aaand finally there's os3.9. But AHA, AHA! Here too AI haven't shown anything else being contributed to that product from their behalf other than giving h&p a go with it. Telling other company that they are allowed to create an amiga os if they pay AI a slice of the profits isn't really my idea of software engineering. AI are calling themselves a SOFTWARE company. Where the hell is that software they say they are creating!?!?!? The sdk?, the player? In 2 years time??? All the company does is allow other companies to develop under the name of amiga so that they can profit out of the product of others when they are released!
To me that's no more different than what gateway did with os 3.5! Sure it's great to have os 3.9 but I hate it everytime when I hear AI say: "we have done lots for the community, we have brought you os.3.9"
>As I have said before, whatever anyone from Amiga say, someone will twist into >their own agenda.
Only because they don't say anything REAL. When Bill and Fleecy are talking, you can see their mouth moving but only hot air is coming out! Everything they say is either contradictory or then it's just so full of PR bullshit it's impossible to find FACTS out of their judgements.
Look. If they would cut the crap for just a second and say how things really are, we might get a realistic impression what's really going on behind the scenes. But no, they act mute, and when they break the silence they do so only to give another vague politician like story of what's going down.
THAT's what's giving the room for imagination to fly! It's not the fault of the community. They have said so themselves a thousand times: "If you dont hear it from us (AI) don't listen" The trouble is they aren't exactly saying anything!!!
>Amiga can't win with this community - I suggest they release a statement >saying "F*** You, Community" and go and work on something else that they want, >not what the community wants.
The community wants a vastly improved SDK, new amiga hardware and above all a new promised OS for their machines. None of this has come to the reality yet, so I would say they have been doing exactly what they want regardless of the community.
>Do you think that Bill, Fleecy, Gary, etc haven't got a lot of their own >money, time, resources in Amiga Inc. They want it to succeed as much as any >true Amiga supporter does.
Of course they want to see their company succeeding. But that dont mean anything they do has to have something to do with amiga, apart from the name.
If you read my original posting you would see Im not even pissed of them for what they have released or have not released. Im pissed cause they can't step up on the mic and say "would the real slim shady please stand up"
TRUTH coming out from the horses mouth is what I want. Nothing more, nothing less. But for AI that's just giving another release date for 'vapor' OS4.0.
If they have something why don't they show us??? If they would really want to clip the rumors off their wings, that's all they would need to do. THIS is why some ppl (like myself) believe AI is just full of shit when they promise stuff.
Anyway Im not here to critisize your post. I don't have anything which could prove you wrong in your opinion. However also YOU dont have anything to prove me wrong, so we are even :)
Fleecy comments on outsourcing AmigaOS : Comment 27 of 51ANN.lu
Posted by Red Moose on 07-Nov-2001 01:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 26 (gz):
be fair:
At least there's a new name to add to the list of "next gen" Amigas. On top of Walker/MCC/DE/whatever we also now have SGA - Second Generation Amiga!
Finally, some progress.
Fleecy comments on outsourcing AmigaOS : Comment 28 of 51ANN.lu
Posted by Soap Opera watcher on 07-Nov-2001 04:08 GMT
heh... I like the sound of that SGA... :)
this is interesting.. seriously i thought people
accepted that amiga inc was a dot.com not a soft comp.
their business plan was a bit unfortunate for this period, take them
at least 6 months to get results from here.
Didin't Amino have a partnership with QNX/REBOL then they ditched it
after they bought amiga ip? Why would you ditch a deal with Carl? And they
say they are true 'amigans'
Fleecy comments on outsourcing AmigaOS : Comment 29 of 51ANN.lu
Posted by cybereye on 07-Nov-2001 06:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 27 (Red Moose):
>At least there's a new name to add to the list of "next gen" Amigas. On top of Walker/MCC/DE/whatever we also now have SGA
>- Second Generation Amiga!
SGA (Second Generation Amiga). Just food for thought, I wonder if SGA is Amiga2. It now have two CPU of any kinds. I think I'll start a rumor. Just joken.
Fleecy comments on outsourcing AmigaOS : Comment 30 of 51ANN.lu
Posted by Dave on 07-Nov-2001 07:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (smithy):
Well I expected to see some retarded posting, I got it.
Dave.
Fleecy comments on outsourcing AmigaOS : Comment 31 of 51ANN.lu
Posted by Dave on 07-Nov-2001 07:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (smithy):
I get the impression that you either havent read my posts or you have misunderstood them. I have no intention of protecting AmigaINC or anyone from "objective" thinking. I just see no sense in prolonging the same old round of thrust and counter thrust with nothing new introduced each time.
I have stated multiple times that Im not coming down on either side, but hey I reckon you havent read any of my other posts and you object to someone pointing out that a flame war has been indulged in. If you examine the other threads over the last three weeks there have been roughly a quarter well thought out posts, a quarter calling for an end to the tedious flaming and a half out and out flame wars.
But, given that I dont expect you to make it as far as this sentence and still be digesting what I have to say - I wonder why I bothered.
Dave.
Fleecy comments on outsourcing AmigaOS : Comment 32 of 51ANN.lu
Posted by AlBolone on 07-Nov-2001 07:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 26 (gz):
****Applause*****
...and signed!! I couldn't put it in better words! And I really hope for the sake of the Amiga that Fleecy & Bill are reading this and spend some second thoughts about it! This time it's urgent!!
Fleecy comments on outsourcing AmigaOS : Comment 33 of 51ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 07-Nov-2001 08:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (Paul Laycock):
What evidence have you got that MorphOS have performed any less
professionally that AmigaInc in all of this? Hacking web sites,
and ripping off code are just vicious rumours as far as I can see,
started, I must point out, by known sycophants.
Fleecy comments on outsourcing AmigaOS : Comment 34 of 51ANN.lu
Posted by smithy on 07-Nov-2001 10:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 31 (Dave):
If you disagree with anything that I say then put forward your arguments. Set out your stall. Try some reasoning, prove to me that I am wrong!!! Dodging the issues, changing the subjects, and making patronising remarks won't achieve anything.
If you wonder why pro-MorphOS and anti-Amiga Inc feeling is growing then take a look at the quality of posts from people who take this viewpoint. Then take a look at the posts from people on the other side - they don't seem to have any arguments beyond whinging and posts like what I described in the paragraph above.
Rationality through thoughtful and insightful posts will win the PR war.
Fleecy comments on outsourcing AmigaOS : Comment 35 of 51ANN.lu
Posted by Andy Hall on 07-Nov-2001 10:06 GMT
Is it me or does it seem like Amiga Inc. and B-Plan are the worst things to ever happen to the community?
I said all this stuff would happen waaaay back in April, when OS4 was announced.
Amiga is about choice eh? Give the users one and they start tearing each other apart.
Andy
Fleecy comments on outsourcing AmigaOS : Comment 36 of 51ANN.lu
Posted by AlBolone on 07-Nov-2001 10:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 35 (Andy Hall):
Who is good and who is bad for the community depends very much on who will deliver what! bplan became only a relevant option b/c Amiga Inc. offers no option and cannot convince the community they ever will... By really providing results bplan has archieved something that we all expected from Amiga Inc. but never got. So basically Amiga Inc. have to blame themselfes for the sudden competition! And if the lethargy of AInc. remains people will be awfully happy to have the bplan products in the end.
Besides: the other significant difference between bplan/MorphOS and Amiga Inc. is that the first ones really produce and care for their stuff themselfes while the others just forward the necessary work!! Obvious what a community like ours likes more...
Fleecy comments on outsourcing AmigaOS : Comment 37 of 51ANN.lu
Posted by Kochwurst on 07-Nov-2001 11:22 GMT
"SGA"? What is this? Suppose just another vapor-crap, or just another
Fleecy-dream?
Fleecy comments on outsourcing AmigaOS : Comment 38 of 51ANN.lu
Posted by Andy hall on 07-Nov-2001 12:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 36 (AlBolone):
Both have done more damage than can be repaired now with this pathetic fight. I've tried to be neutral during the whole thing, and wait to see what the systems are like before deciding where so splash my cash. But this has gotten boring. The diehards on both side acting like tossers, Ralph bitching this, Fleecy alledging that. Why should I (or anyone else for that matter) put up with it?
After seeing Sam Thomas' cool mediator set up at WOASE, flying like nowt else on just an 060, I think that maybe that is the pinnicle of Amiga computing.
I don't want to buy a nex-gen machine if it is going to cause me a headache BEFORE it comes out.
So a round of applause for everyone involved in this nice little MOS/AOS saga, you've managed to do what C=, Escom, and Gateway never managed......Kill the Amiga.
Fleecy comments on outsourcing AmigaOS : Comment 39 of 51ANN.lu
Posted by gz on 07-Nov-2001 12:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 38 (Andy hall):
HEAR, HEAR! I agree fully with the last sentence.
The amount of unprofessialism has been staggering (which is why sometimes there's actually white foam dripping out of my mouth)
The situation has shown an unbelievable resemblence to huge sandbox (preferably one for a cat) where there are adelecent children figthing because they cannot take the teasing from other children, and continuously fight for a toy they are all jealous for (us, the community's attention and support)
would the crap windows ever had selled if the companies on the other side would have taken similar steps towards eachother!? If they hadn't taken their fights to a courthouse instead of keeping it on the streets (like civilized ppl do and getting them out of the way of our eyes) Linux would now be the equivalent of windows and linus torvalds would be the king of LinuxSoft.
By fighting about issues in public on a personal level, amiga companies, even hyperion have caused very bad blood and disturbance in the community. And it's this community that has been the reason why escom, cbm and others have failed in killing the amiga. But now the community moral and spirit is being eradicated fast :(
If companies want to fight they should do it behind closed doors.
If our own spirits have been blackened by all this, what do you think the thoughts will be outside the amiga community? Any chance for the amiga to comeback anymore? I don't think so... It was impossible even when we all were optimistic, and it's worse than impossible now because of the way amiga companies have been showering lead on eachother.
Fleecy comments on outsourcing AmigaOS : Comment 40 of 51ANN.lu
Posted by AlBolone on 07-Nov-2001 12:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 38 (Andy hall):
Well, I hope you consider that it's not really the current fight that's the problem, but more what lead to it... the level of frustration and aggression may not be healthy, but is something that takes a lot of time to pile up like that. And it shows exactly where things went wrong for quiete some time now! So if anyone kills the Amiga then surely not with this present showdown, but with being terribly wrong about how to influence and lead the brand and the market in the past!
Fleecy comments on outsourcing AmigaOS : Comment 41 of 51ANN.lu
Posted by gz on 07-Nov-2001 13:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 40 (AlBolone):
you must be my secret EVIL identical brother or something, because we always manage to steal the words out of eachothers mouths ;)
I agree with you. It's just sometimes difficult for me to articulate everything I have in mind/what I would like to say into one post.
However now that it seems we manage to complete any gaps in eacothers posts there's no problem :)
BTW. I like the way you seem to be open for facing even the grim realities of the market. There are so many ppl out there who want to have their amiga soooo much and have waited for so long, that they are enraged when someone questions the "rosy" future they want to see.
they have become amiga extremists and will soon be flying a 747 to microsoft headquarters. Mark my words Bill Gaytes, theyr'e gonna strike when u least expect. :)
Fleecy comments on outsourcing AmigaOS : Comment 42 of 51ANN.lu
Posted by Andy Hall on 07-Nov-2001 13:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 40 (AlBolone):
You can't blame Amiga solely for this (as you are trying to), a war needs 2 sides. Some of this still goes back to the old WOS/PUP days. Just when everyone thought that had been put behind them.
It seems I can either become a "MorphOS weenie" or an "AmigaOS weenie". I don't want to be either thank you very much. I'm sure there are others who feel the same way.
Maybe all the rest of us should say "Bugger off we don't need this" and go our own way. They can fight this out until no-one cares, and we can get on with enjoying our computers
Andy "Classic Weenie"? Hall :-)
Fleecy comments on outsourcing AmigaOS : Comment 43 of 51ANN.lu
Posted by gz on 07-Nov-2001 13:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 42 (Andy Hall):
ahhh this is getting scary...
I seem to have more than one EVIL twinbrothers ;)
I agree with your post, altough I dont think mr.bolone was trying to lay all the blame on AI. It's just hard to articulate when wanting to make a point about evrything thats involved with this whole saga.
Fleecy comments on outsourcing AmigaOS : Comment 44 of 51ANN.lu
Posted by Dave on 07-Nov-2001 13:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 35 (Andy Hall):
Very well said.
Dave.
Fleecy comments on outsourcing AmigaOS : Comment 45 of 51ANN.lu
Posted by AlBolone on 07-Nov-2001 14:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 42 (Andy Hall):
Don't get me wrong about who's to blame. I don't think that the MorphOS dudes handled the situation too carefully eigher. But as mothercompany Amiga Inc. is responsible to keep the market and faith alive and in the longer term this is only archievable by delivering convincing products or convincing information. They rather failed with both... and caused dissappointment, anger and doubts - while the market keeps breaking away! The policy of bplan/MorphOS may not be very gentle, but expresses a frustration that is very compatible with the common status of the community.
If Amiga Inc. would have handled their responsabilities wiser in the past bplan and a lot of users might have no reason to flame like they do. But that they do is a RED FLAG to Amiga Inc. saying this is getting a serious emergency... and therefore a final chance for Amiga Inc. to really prove themselfs! And if they do, OS alternatives won't stand a chance!!
@ gz: I think, we have the same expectations from Amiga Inc. :¨) ! Why the hell should we be happy with what Amiga has done so far, when there's nothing to really buy, nothing to tell others, nothing to be proud of or looking forward too? And objectively stating that there's a serious lack here is nothing but acting responsible... thanks, for wanting the Amiga were it belongs :¨) !!
Fleecy comments on outsourcing AmigaOS : Comment 46 of 51ANN.lu
Posted by Brecht [darklite] on 07-Nov-2001 15:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 42 (Andy Hall):
>You can't blame Amiga solely for this (as you are trying to), a war needs 2 sides.
So you are saying Belgium, Holland, France were also to blame for the 2nd World War? :)
Fleecy comments on outsourcing AmigaOS : Comment 47 of 51ANN.lu
Posted by Andy Hall on 07-Nov-2001 16:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 45 (AlBolone):
Sorry it seemed as if you were placing the blame entirely on Amiga.
I think Amiga got tangled up by trying to please everyone all the time, when they don't have the resources to. When they became Amiga, they wanted to work on DE as the next generation stuff, and leave the Classic to the comunnity, but with all the crap going on with the PCI bus-boards wars and the CGX/P96/Mediator bollocks, I think they felt obliged to step in.
Whatever happen there is no excuse for either parties behaviour. The sad thing is that it isn't just the stupid minority this time it's the heads of the industry!!!!
The amiga is a wonderful machine - hence why after 9 hours of computers a day I spend more on my amiga when I get home.
As I said before I think that those of us that can be objective about the whole thing should just stand back and let them get on with it. There are far more important things in life.
Andy
Fleecy comments on outsourcing AmigaOS : Comment 48 of 51ANN.lu
Posted by Allen Kong on 07-Nov-2001 20:50 GMT
This is the first and last response I'm writing to this "flame war".
I am now leaving to let those who care complain and moan.
Myself I will sit here quietly, develop a few programs/games on my Amiga and wait.
We can all have opinions but none matter.
TimeWillTell :) Sorry to nick your nick there mate! :)
Allen
Fleecy comments on outsourcing AmigaOS : Comment 49 of 51ANN.lu
Posted by Brecht [darklite] on 07-Nov-2001 20:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 48 (Allen Kong):
>We can all have opinions but none matter.
It's nice to know the cummunity's opninion doesn't matter.
Fleecy comments on outsourcing AmigaOS : Comment 50 of 51ANN.lu
Posted by Dave on 08-Nov-2001 08:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 46 (Brecht [darklite]):
According to some historians, sort of, the ( in todays terms irrational ) treaty of versailles had a lot to do with the rise of Nazism in Germany and the subsequent "revenge" war. The policy of appeasement was in hindsight incorrect and if not embarked apon could have stopped the impending war in its tracks with the saving of 30 million soviet lives etc etc.
In my opinion no, there is no excuse for military aggression on another state, but its difficult to hold that opinion with the knowledge that it might mean standing idly by whilst a civilian population within a country is slowly subjected to genocide.
If all sides of a conflict were pacifists, there would be no war. Unfortunatly they are not, there are always those that profit from war and it suits their agendas to rattle the sabres.
Dave.
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