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[News] Amiga announces new Vice President of EngineeringANN.lu
Posted on 05-Dec-2001 21:17 GMT by Christian Kemp53 comments
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In a press release dated December 3rd, but apparently only released today, Amiga announces a new Vice President of Engineering: "Sanjay Menon has joined Amiga as it's new Vice President of Engineering. Menon brings 10 years of development and management experience to Amiga." Read More [ Comment removed. Explanation. - CK ]
Amiga announces new Vice President of Engineering : Comment 1 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 05-Dec-2001 20:51 GMT
I met Sanjay in Germany and found him to be a likable and competent guy.
Amiga announces new Vice President of Engineering : Comment 2 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by Frans on 05-Dec-2001 21:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
Who was VP of Engineering before him? in other words, is someone being replaced or is this a new function?
These guys don't work for peanuts so I guess Amiga really does have money at last if they can pay people like this, also apparently they must have a vision or business plan that interested this man enough to come work for them.
Any thoughts ?
Frans
Amiga announces new Vice President of Engineering : Comment 3 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 05-Dec-2001 21:33 GMT
hmm... I see no "it's" on the webpage, wonder where it came from...;)
Amiga announces new Vice President of Engineering : Comment 4 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by Skal Loret on 05-Dec-2001 21:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Frans):
I'm with you, Frans. They are hiring people, not firing or laying off people.
These days, that counts for something.
As far as the fact that he once worked at M$: C'mon Christian! What are we to assume about THAT comment? That he is somehow tainted? That he is somehow a 5th column operative for The Evil Empire? That this, too, somehow taints the efforts of AI? I don't hear the same being said about the former C= employees that work at M$, or about the Bars & Pipes guy who works there?
Christ! They are in WASHINGTON! A few miles from Redmond. Much of the talent in the area has worked at M$ at one time or another.
Sometimes, the things that are said here, and in other web boards and forums, just makes me very sad for what has become of the collective affect in the "Amiga Community".
-skal
Amiga announces new Vice President of Engineering : Comment 5 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by Johan Rönnblom on 05-Dec-2001 21:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (Anonymous):
I guess they fixed it?
As for money.. what do we know, just appointing someone as "VP of
Engineering" doesn't cost anything. I could do it myself. :)
We'll see when/if they actually engineer something. :)
Amiga announces new Vice President of Engineering : Comment 6 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by Sami Cokar on 05-Dec-2001 21:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (Skal Loret):
you misunderstood CK.
Amiga announces new Vice President of Engineering : Comment 7 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by anonymous on 05-Dec-2001 21:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (Skal Loret):
Replacing people expect a new announcement soon, concerning a new CEO/direction.
Amiga announces new Vice President of Engineering : Comment 8 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by Douglas McLaughlin on 05-Dec-2001 21:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (anonymous):
> Replacing people expect a new announcement soon, concerning a new CEO/direction.
Yeah! I get to be the first to say it! TROLL, TROLL, TROLL! Now be quiet and go home to mommy.
Amiga announces new Vice President of Engineering : Comment 9 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by amorel on 05-Dec-2001 22:17 GMT
So now we got a Vice pres. of engineering, the pres. of engineering is Floocymoosy isn`t it? I doub`t he`s got much to request refering to wages
after all there`s not much jobs to find in the business anymopre, overthere. I guess he`s happy to have found anything at all.
Have they hired any engineers which the presidents of engineer can bully? Or are those 3
the only eomployees left?
Amiga announces new Vice President of Engineering : Comment 10 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 05-Dec-2001 22:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Frans):
So far as I can tell it is a new additional post. Nobody seems to be
missing.
It looks more like they wanted him and thought up a title for him.
I think it's a good sign.
Amiga announces new Vice President of Engineering : Comment 11 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by daka... on 05-Dec-2001 22:23 GMT
Gah... i'm pissed so i'll say it:
Amiga announces new Vice President of Engineering : Comment 12 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by daka... on 05-Dec-2001 22:30 GMT
Gah... i'm pissed so i'll say it:
(lets try again ;-)
Amiga give us a xmas present. Sanjay - you there?
Give us something to look forward to, you missed July, ok Noveber 1st didn't happen but tell us, H O N E S T L Y , when can we buy a Amiga One motherboard with groovy AmigaOS4? Please, if its gonna take another 6 months, tell us.
Whats going on with Sharp, did we fluff it? Would I still be supporting Amiga if I bought one? And Hyperion, who is paying them? They're doing a lorra lorra work (cilla style) but wheres the source of income? So maybe you guys HAVE got money but you're keeping quiet?! Hmmm... some of us have mouths to feed and children to rear.... Fleecy, Bill, Sanjay and Engineer x, y and Z, give us the best xmas in 8 years!.... go on.... pleeeeeaaasseeeeee!!!!!
Amiga announces new Vice President of Engineering : Comment 13 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by Robb Perrone on 05-Dec-2001 23:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 9 (amorel):
No, Fleecy is Vice President of Development, which you'd know if you took the time to check. There is no President of Engineering.
Bill is the President. Period. Those right below him [i.e.: Fleecy Moss, Randall Hughes, and Vincent E. Pfeifer] are Vice Presidents. At bit lower are the Directors [Gary Peake, Dean Brown, and Gordon Stone].
Then comes the Managers. you get the point. Amiga is set up, corporately [sp] speaking, just like any other company. None that I know of have more than one President.[that don't mean that there ain't: just that I'm not aware of one :p].
You'd know that, too, if you'd bother to check things before just spewing out this kind of......oh, right, never mind. I get it: You're just a troll!
My bad.
Sorry to waste everyones time....
"If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking until you do succeed."
- Curly Howard
Amiga announces new Vice President of Engineering : Comment 14 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by stefan on 06-Dec-2001 00:02 GMT
everyone there seems to be a president of some sort or a manager ... are there anyone that acctually works ? a worker ...
a bunch of lads with fancy titles doing absolutely nothing (we can see) ...
Amiga announces new Vice President of Engineering : Comment 15 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by Skal Loret on 06-Dec-2001 00:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (Douglas McLaughlin):
Dammit Doug, you get to have all the fun.
I suppose I could insult amorel, but that would just be sad...;')
-skal
Amiga announces new Vice President of Engineering : Comment 16 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by NihilVor on 06-Dec-2001 00:19 GMT
<a href="http://www.bothell.washington.edu/career/exhibitors.html">University of Washington Career Fair</a>
Not only did others know about Sanjay, but he was out selling the Amiga at a career fair at the University of Washington (looking for future prospects?).
I can't find a date for this, but it seems recent.
Amiga announces new Vice President of Engineering : Comment 17 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by NihilVor on 06-Dec-2001 00:33 GMT
http://www.bothell.washington.edu/career/fair.html
Looks like the Career Fair is going to be in April... Interesting that Amiga is going to attend--seems like they are expanding (at least they are looking to hire some fresh blood).
Career Fair 2002
2:00 - 5:30 p.m.
Thursday, April 11
Amiga announces new Vice President of Engineering : Comment 18 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by InJun on 06-Dec-2001 00:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (stefan):
I can see what is happening.....like all other companies that have too many Chiefs and not enough InJuns.........they go down the swanee river!!
Amiga announces new Vice President of Engineering : Comment 19 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by Graham on 06-Dec-2001 00:51 GMT
Why don't all the trolls just grow up?
If you don't like Amiga, then go and use your PCs or your Macs, and just shut up, okay? Is that so hard? Don't waste bandwidth misusing ann to further your anti-Amiga viewpoints with insults and criticism about every announcement Amiga make, regardless of how positive it is for Amiga.
It is good that they have a VP of Engineering. Possibly their investors required one in order to gain extra funding? These people usually have lots of experience in their field, which can only be a good thing for Amiga and their plans.
Amiga announces new Vice President of Engineering : Comment 20 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by windtalkers on 06-Dec-2001 01:25 GMT
Yes, Christian, "it's" is actually "its" and "Managementerial" is actually "managerial" ;-)
Luca
Amiga announces new Vice President of Engineering : Comment 21 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by windtalkers on 06-Dec-2001 03:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (Johan Rönnblom):
Sure, you hire somebody from a company like Microsoft for a position like that and it doesn't cost you nothing. Have you ever left your computer and stepped out in the real world?
Amiga announces new Vice President of Engineering : Comment 22 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by windtalkers on 06-Dec-2001 03:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (anonymous):
Sure, McEwen hires Menon so that he can be replaced by someone else. Go Trolling somewhere else !!!!
Amiga announces new Vice President of Engineering : Comment 23 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by windtalkers on 06-Dec-2001 03:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (stefan):
Do you even understand how a corporation is set? Or do you write just for the sake of writing?
Amiga announces new Vice President of Engineering : Comment 24 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by Nathaniel Downes on 06-Dec-2001 04:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
I too have met him, and agree with this statement. A likeable and competent engineer, and good management skills. Not an inspiring leader, but good at keeping his team in-focus. Just what Amiga needs.
Amiga announces new Vice President of Engineering : Comment 25 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by Nathaniel Downes on 06-Dec-2001 04:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (stefan):
Plenty of people actually working. I heard of some late-payments to contractors a few months back, which caused the "cash crunch" rumors, but that was resolved. For perminant staff, I know of 3 good aquaintenances who work for Amiga.
Amiga announces new Vice President of Engineering : Comment 26 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 06-Dec-2001 04:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (Douglas McLaughlin):
hey if you dont like it go home . ts its not even me. what an ass every no name response is me . by that logic -forget it you dont have any logic-dammit come up with a better name calling then- troll- very lame,weak. Then again you are weak minded. Hey jerk for the last time im not Shawn even though I do agree with the guy on certain issues.
aside from that. this new guy help devlope ie. great now what are we going to get another bloated os. I have yet to see a multimedia product on the pc side . dam now we are playing more and more into microsofts hands.
I hope things change or they dont go as they appear.
Amiga announces new Vice President of Engineering : Comment 27 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 06-Dec-2001 04:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (daka...):
Forget AMIGAONE its out as the AMIthlon what a joke. I guess some people just dont look at whats inside. EWW a new name it must be new hardware. What happens is what happens.
Amiga announces new Vice President of Engineering : Comment 28 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by kevin orme on 06-Dec-2001 04:38 GMT
I was under the impression that Fleccy was CTO, or chief tech officer. These guys, judging
from what ours does, as well as people like Marc Andreesen (used to be effective CTO for
AOL after they bought netscape but before he left to form LoudCloud) are the 'tech watchdogs'
of the company, they make sure the company isn't falling behind, is taking advantage of what's
new out there (and relevant to their business plan, of course).
This is different from a VP of development or engineering, where that person would be directly
in charge of a company's software dev division, or hardware engineering or whatever they make/provide
as a service.
In Amiga's case, they have both hardware people (e.g. DKB) as well as software people (various contractors
worldwide as well as partners like H&P, Hyperion, etc.) on staff. Thus I'd bet this guy is charged with heading
up a bit of both, as while they provide hardware specs, they keep reminding us they aren't a hardware
company like the old amiga inc/commodore/ESCOM were.
I think the other relevant connection here is that this guy worked at ConnectSoft here in Seattle
in a past life, as did Bill McEwen and my company's former VP of development, which is how I found
out about how my work colleague knew him, too - not from Amiga/Gateway. Bill probably knew and
respected the guy and wanted him as part of Amiga.
A final comment - note that this guy was at the Evil Empire (believe me, living in its shadow
is more than a bit annoying) for a few years, but, he worked on a Java Virtual Machine there, which
as we know, M$$$ no longer bothers with, they leave it to the OEMs like Dell, Compaq, etc.
to put on their computers starting with WinBlows Extra Pernicious, the current version. They have
turned their backs on Java, which is the opposite of Amiga, probably why he's also interested in Amiga.
kevin orme
amiga university
www.amigau.com
Amiga announces new Vice President of Engineering : Comment 29 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by Christian Kemp on 06-Dec-2001 05:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (windtalkers):
Hence my comment about people sitting in glass houses... :)
Amiga announces new Vice President of Engineering : Comment 30 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by tired on 06-Dec-2001 07:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 26 (Anonymous):
Shut up, Shawn The Bus Arch Troll!
If you're not Shawn you're either schizophrenic, or a lot of dysgraphic/dyslexic people with hilariously twisted opinions just happen to get assigned your IP-number every time they post on ANN (or they all share the same computer at your mental institution).
Amiga announces new Vice President of Engineering : Comment 31 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by John McKenzie on 06-Dec-2001 07:35 GMT
I mentioned this in the unmoderated version of this news, which I am repeating here. (Sorry I went there before reading the wholle news page.)
I am OK with the fact he once worked for Microsoft. However, this line "His responsibilities there included shipping portions of the Microsoft Java Virtual Machine which was delivered in the Internet Explorer browser." makes me worry about competance. Also, is this the right sort of experience to have for the job? Wouldn't experience in a product that increases, not decreases cross-platform compatibility be more helpfull?
Amiga announces new Vice President of Engineering : Comment 32 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by Dave on 06-Dec-2001 07:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 27 (Anonymous):
Thanks for your contribution Shawn
Amiga announces new Vice President of Engineering : Comment 33 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 06-Dec-2001 07:42 GMT
Great. Welcome Mr. Sanjay.
But I would have been even more pleased to know that they hired a few coders or hardware engineers.
Where's the AmigaOne ?
Amiga announces new Vice President of Engineering : Comment 34 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by AlBolone on 06-Dec-2001 08:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 33 (Anonymous):
I really hope they will start to get things finally right! There's a huge amount of frustration about Amiga Inc. out there (including me) - and especially from professionals, developers and companies! There are serious doubts that AInc. has archieved anything for the market and the Amiga itself at all! All relevant products come from other parties and not AInc. Still there's no clear vision or plan about what's to happen next. They didn't even lose any explaining word about the recent delays of their own (supported) products (OS4/AOne) and about the current Sharp situation - which is definately very unprofessional! Nobody really knows and understands what's going on and where we're supposed to go - I doubt Amiga itself knows! A situation which makes existence in this fragile market almost impossible... and another vice president won't change that!
The people behind the anti-troll posts seem to not understand the signifisance of the situation! If people are very dissatisfied with and honestly worried about the Amiga situation and the impulses (if any) coming from Amiga Inc. then why they should not express them?? The brand and market is so DAMN weak and has continously + terribly shrinked over the last 2 years that there's no further capacity for experiments, delays and lethargy! Don't blame people for starting to adress questions and concerns - it's not that Amiga has delivered too much answers / results! Because they bought the name Amiga doesn't mean they're doing good work automatically! So I won't stop expressing my serious doubts until the give me reason to believe and hope... they haven't archieved both yet!
Amiga announces new Vice President of Engineering : Comment 35 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Clarke on 06-Dec-2001 09:53 GMT
I really think people should stop getting upset about the lack of "news" from Amiga inc. After all, "no news is good news".
Also, why's everyone getting the impression we've lost the Sharp deal? I see it mentioned all over. Ok, so most of the time they refer to the Zaurus as running the Elate system from Tao, rather than saying AmigaDE, but I don't believe that means that AmigaDE is not there. As Tao themselves said, "Amiga is our most important customer". AmigaDE adds the content and value to what otherwise could be "just another OS".
Hiring is good. How many companies are making people redundant right now?! Amiga has taken on a new member of staff, and what's more is attending a careers fair. You simply can't go out hiring people if you know you can't pay them. And you certainly don't spend valuable cash going to careers fairs if you don't have every intention (and the necessary resources) to see the process through to actually employing people.
As for the people who bring up the subject of Microsoft's JVM and it's proprietary additions and so on... it's not Sanjay's fault!!! Come off it! The decision to bastardise the JVM that Microsoft shipped was no doubt a high level decision made specifically with the intention of scuppering Sun and its whole Java crusade. The people who worked on the JVM were no doubt told from above to make it happen.
So Sanjay: welcome to the Amiga community. I can only apologise for those people who will judge you before you've even had the chance to prove yourself.
Amiga announces new Vice President of Engineering : Comment 36 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by anonymous on 06-Dec-2001 13:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 35 (Ben Clarke):
Zaurus hasn't run Elate for ages, runs lineo embedded linux, with the Jeode mini-java solution, Codewarrior C++ dev environment, using QT embedded for the windowing environment.Check qpe.sourceforge.net for a cross-platform dev environment for X/win32. Zaurus is a nice system, but I've never seen anything about Amiga on the dev list.
Amiga announces new Vice President of Engineering : Comment 37 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by Christian Kemp on 06-Dec-2001 13:40 GMT
I slightly edited my post to remove commentary posted yesterday. Usually, I refrain from posting personal opinions on main page posts, but some bizarre combination of too much frustration and irritation and general lack of sleep made me do it, and worse, made me write something even I don't agree with today.
I guess I could blame it all on stress, but we all know that pointless venting should never be directed at other people or companies.
A few excuses I could cite are:
I'm slightly overwhelmed by a project at work, which I am responsible for. Working with Powerbuilder and coping with its bugs and inconveniences is frustrating. I recently restarted athletics training, but find that my ambitions are lowered at every training by my injury. Then, the motorway (interstate) was closed and for the past few nights truck after truck has driven in low gears (or worse, accelerated from a red light) right in front of my bedroom window.
But the truth is, I made a mistake. I judged the book by its cover, and worse than that, did what I dislike the most in several anonymous posters here on ANN: attack personally, not based on facts but on rumours and superstitions. For just one second, I was worse than a Slashdot troll.
So I guess I'll have to apologize to my readers, to Sanjay Menon and by extension also to the people at Amiga Inc.
Amiga announces new Vice President of Engineering : Comment 38 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by amigammc on 06-Dec-2001 13:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 36 (anonymous):
Ok, you really don't understand a thing. Back to the books...
Amiga announces new Vice President of Engineering : Comment 39 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by irrelevant on 06-Dec-2001 15:20 GMT
Patience is a virtue..zzzzzzzzzzz..lol
Amiga announces new Vice President of Engineering : Comment 40 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by CyberZorro on 06-Dec-2001 17:27 GMT
>If you don't like Amiga, then go and use your PCs or your Macs, and just shut >up, okay? Is that so hard? Don't waste bandwidth misusing ann to further your >anti-Amiga viewpoints with insults and criticism about every announcement >Amiga make, regardless of how positive it is for Amiga.
I love Amiga, but I hate Amiga Inc.. Amiga Inc. is NOT Amiga any more but a bunch of idiots. They call themselves Amiga because they want to make money out of the brand "Amiga". BTW, Graham you are from the States, arent you? Never heard of "freedom of speech" or something like that?! Seems so..
Amiga announces new Vice President of Engineering : Comment 41 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by CyberZorro on 06-Dec-2001 17:32 GMT
>I really think people should stop getting upset about the lack of "news" from >Amiga inc. After all, "no news is good news".
*LOL*
Amiga announces new Vice President of Engineering : Comment 42 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by Kay Are Ulvestad on 06-Dec-2001 17:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 40 (CyberZorro):
You hate them? Well, that's nice, and I'm sure you have a good reason to do so.
People who mix personal attacks with fond references to "freedom of speech" are
always well-reasoned people. After all, freedom of speech is all about being able
to attack someone anonymously, right?
-
Kay
Amiga announces new Vice President of Engineering : Comment 43 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Clarke on 06-Dec-2001 18:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 36 (anonymous):
I note that even Lineo, when announcing their deal to provide the Embedix OS for the Zuarus, mentioned that Sharp had selected Amiga to provide content.
The press release is here: http://www.lineo.com/news_events/announcements/2001/06.05.html
Elate runs hosted under Embedix. AmigaDE is Elate. Zaurus runs Embedix. Zaurus runs Elate. Zuarus runs AmigaDE.
Ben.
Amiga announces new Vice President of Engineering : Comment 44 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by Simon Goodwin on 06-Dec-2001 19:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
I met Sanjay in Oxford earlier this year and
was encouraged and impressed. Amiga needs
him. He's got an A4000 at home, by the way.
Simon Goodwin, ex-columnist Amiga Format, Amiga
Shopper, Amiga User International, etc.
Amiga announces new Vice President of Engineering : Comment 45 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by CyberZorro on 06-Dec-2001 20:07 GMT
>You hate them? Well, that's nice, and I'm sure you have a good reason to do so.
>People who mix personal attacks with fond references to "freedom of speech" are
>always well-reasoned people.
Sorry, i dont see the point here. Being emotional and well-reasoned does not necessarily exclude each other IMHO.
>After all, freedom of speech is all about being able
>to attack someone anonymously, right?
??? Who isnt "anonymous" in here?? Graham????
Amiga announces new Vice President of Engineering : Comment 46 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by Kay Are Ulvestad on 06-Dec-2001 20:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 45 (CyberZorro):
>Sorry, i dont see the point here. Being emotional and well-reasoned does not necessarily exclude each
>other IMHO.
-
I guess you really didn't see the point. Ok, perhaps my post wasn't a prime example
of eloquence. What I meant to say is that I don't think your hate towards AInc is
very well founded, and I think calling people idiots and liars (that's the consequence
if they're just using the brand to earn a quick buck, as you implied) is something
that shouldn't be done anonymously, if at all.
-
>??? Who isnt "anonymous" in here?? Graham????
-
The "bunch of idiots" at Amiga Inc aren't anonymous. I just think you should stick
your name to your insults, or keep them to yourself.
-
Kay
Amiga announces new Vice President of Engineering : Comment 47 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by Darrin on 06-Dec-2001 21:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 44 (Simon Goodwin):
I bet he doesn't run MorphOS on it ;)
Amiga announces new Vice President of Engineering : Comment 48 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by smithy on 06-Dec-2001 21:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 46 (Kay Are Ulvestad):
>The "bunch of idiots" at Amiga Inc aren't anonymous. I just think you should
>stick
>your name to your insults, or keep them to yourself.
Posting as anonymous is not really much different to posting with a nickname like so many people do (including me), or a completely unfathomable name like your own...
Amiga announces new Vice President of Engineering : Comment 49 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 07-Dec-2001 03:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 45 (CyberZorro):
graham is and has been anonymous before and since. Who cares about being anonymous. thats why this site is so good . this site allows total reedom of speech.
Amiga announces new Vice President of Engineering : Comment 50 of 53ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 07-Dec-2001 03:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 45 (CyberZorro):
Kay is right
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