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[News] Dave Haynie on Zorro...ANN.lu
Posted on 18-Dec-2001 11:00 GMT by Christian Kemp59 comments
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Among recent Zorro discussions, Dave Haynie has posted a few comments that should once more clarify the situation as it is, and indeed, has been for the last ten years.
Dave Haynie on Zorro... : Comment 51 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by victor # on 19-Dec-2001 23:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 50 (RLFrost):
Nice, but could you make a 1:1 compare to PCI, to be more clear?
BTW, I know that PCI is good enough, supports DMA/Busmaster, and so on, but: does it allow to adjust AutoConfig for it in the Amiga-side? Is this only the weakness of Windows that there are frquent (self-)configuration problems on the PC? (Not counting the low number of IRQ lines there.)
Dave Haynie on Zorro... : Comment 52 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by Oscar Miller on 20-Dec-2001 01:13 GMT
Guys, three motherboard manufacturers will be offering multiple products with 64 bit PCI (one or two slots) in 2002 an the MAC has had it longer. Update yourselves -- time marches on.
Dave Haynie on Zorro... : Comment 53 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by Trizt on 20-Dec-2001 13:54 GMT
I would have liked to see a "next generation" Amiga whit something called Zorro5 ports, which don't have to be backward compatible with old ZorroII/III. It would have med that new Amiga feel more Amiga as it wouldn't be so "PC" like.
Disadavtige with a "Zorro5" would be quite expensive expansion cards, as the number of people who would get a new Amiga will be quite limited (I frankly don't think that there will be more than a handfull of all emul-users who will buy a Pegasos or AmigaOne, they are lost to the IBM-PC clone market). Soemthing else than PCI and that has been built up in a different way, will help the evelution of bus-thecnology.
PCI will give cheaper expansions, which is quite good, but I don't think PCI will have more than a year or two before it will be as used as ISA is today. I hope that all the "next generation" Amiga developers will be quick to move over to a new standard, for the line of Amigans will be even thinner if after this upgrade ,thats hopefully comming next year, if it has to take another ten year before we see something new.
While we dream about the "SuperAmiga" with Zorro6 and Quadra MC69090/100GHz with custom chips for everything, we have to work as much as possible to get AMIGA NATIVE drivers for the PCI cards, show big companies that there still are real Amigans who demands real drivers and aren't ready to run a emulator and use drivers to a bad OS about which the driver developers don't know everything they need to make a really good driver.
I hope Amiga Inc will be more open than "M$", allow developers to know all functionality in AmigaOS, so they can use it to a maximum to get a stable and fast driver.
Dave Haynie on Zorro... : Comment 54 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by Adam Kowalczyk on 20-Dec-2001 16:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 53 (Trizt):
I think I've come to the conclusion that the people at Eyetech, Elbox, DCE, and Matay, and Amiga, should have agreed to create a Zorro 5 bus. This bus would be totally compatible with PCI. It would look like PCI, feel like PCI, and smell like PCI. It would allow users to put standard inexpensive PCI cards in their new Amiga or Amiga expansion. I apologize if the sarcasm isn't any clearer, but it's the OS that makes your machine feel like an Amiga.
I can't emphasise enough that for Amiga to succeed, it needs to stay in sync with standard off the shelf hardware. In today's terms that means PCI, in 2004 it may be something else. The goal of a good OS should be to take the software forward and leave the hardware behind.
There is room in the world for an alternative OS. Linux and Mac are proof of that, but Linux isn't quite ready for general mass consumption and the Mac OS only runs on Mac hardware (well mostly if you have iFusion I guess you can run it on an Amiga).
Dave Haynie on Zorro... : Comment 55 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by Nathaniel Downes on 20-Dec-2001 19:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 51 (victor #):
Actually, yes, Autoconfig could be done on PCI. PCI allows for a boot-BIOS, and this BIOS is left up to the system boot-ROM on how it works. x86's use x86 BIOS, Mac's use open firmware, Amiga's could use Autoconfig (and actually get better performance than mac's using openfirmware *or* PC's using x86 BIOS, as unlike x86 you can run in full 32-bit mode from the onset and unlike openfirmware you don't have to code it in some kind of arcane language like Forth.
This is actually a great idea!
Dave Haynie on Zorro... : Comment 56 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by victor # on 20-Dec-2001 22:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 55 (Nathaniel Downes):
Then it would need the card-makers to prepare a new card-BIOS for the Amiga, wouldn't it? I don't see it to happen...
Dave Haynie on Zorro... : Comment 57 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by Nathaniel Downes on 21-Dec-2001 02:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 56 (victor #):
It happens every day. Every card for the Macintosh, for Sun boxes, for IBM's boxes, all require such a customized BIOS. Amiga's announced partnerships so far have included the key component needed for such an autoconfig inclusion: A card manufacturer, Matrox. They'd need an audio card, which I could find a half-dozen manufacturers willing to get an exclusive into the Amiga market. For networking, make an installable ROM for a common network card series. 3Com's fairly good about such strategic partnerships, but the plethora of NE-2000 clones is fine for now.
Of course, if I wanted to, I could give an entire business plan to Amiga. But, they've snubbed me and other developers, so I'll let them lay in the bed that they've made.
Dave Haynie on Zorro... : Comment 58 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by victor # on 22-Dec-2001 08:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 57 (Nathaniel Downes):
Ohh, yes, for a moment I forgot about the Zico spec.
Dave Haynie on Zorro... : Comment 59 of 59ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 23-Dec-2001 00:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 37 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
>Those are made for adapters with one or 2 ZIFs you idiot....
>The cpu itself is on a zif card...
*LOL*
YOU are the idiot, since they are not made for ZIFs!
There may be some ZIF converter cards just like Celeron-Chip-fit-into-Slot1-PC
ones, but they are deadend and the future CPUs come only on special Slot1 cards.
Ask bplan if you don't know what you are talking about!
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