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[Motd] MOTD 02/01/2002ANN.lu
Posted on 02-Jan-2002 22:39 GMT by Christian Kemp174 comments
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Today, I tracked over one hundred attempts of abuse on ANN. I've been working on the filters and editing mechanisms for over four hours. Maintaining ANN is turning into real work, and all I see are tasks that I despise. This one individual, and the general attitude on ANN lately, is alienating visitors and making this site a horrible place to be. Most of what I see is insults and blind advocacy... I'm tired... And I can just see the negative comments again, in reply to me posting this...
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 1 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by [JC] on 02-Jan-2002 21:58 GMT
This is exactly why I left the amiga about 4 years ago, blind advocacy, lies, bullshit and propaganda. I now only work on Amiga's when Epic tell me we're releasing a project on it, and most of the work Amiga-side is done by Paul.
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 2 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by Mikey C on 02-Jan-2002 22:11 GMT
Hang in there Christian, We (the decent majority) vastly appreciate
all the hard work people like you and Wayne put in to this websites.
Your hard work is very much appreciated here and if I may add, without
sites like ANN and Amiga.org, the Amiga world would surely be greatly
diminished.
Keep up the good work.
Mikey C
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 3 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by Daniel Miller on 02-Jan-2002 22:19 GMT
Christian, your frustration is understandable. The Usenet Amiga groups have also been bombarded. I really have never seen anything like this, at least not this intense and widespread. It drives people away. I hope it doesn't drive you away.
It is unfortunate, but I really think you should disallow anonymous posting, or have some sort of registration.
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 4 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by Frank213 on 02-Jan-2002 22:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (Daniel Miller):
Registration would drive people away from forums as most are bored of filling out forms and logging in to discussion boards.
I too have noticed this increase in trash postings in UseNet (at least in c.s.a.* newsgroups) and will only wait for the lamers to leave while ignoring them. Fortunately there are quite a few interesting postings on UseNet and on ANN of course.
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 5 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by Thomas Würgler / Pagan Games on 02-Jan-2002 22:42 GMT
We appreciate your site and all the work you put into it.
We hope the few bad seeds won't discourage you from your work since that would be victory for them.
United we stand..
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 6 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by bbrockie on 02-Jan-2002 22:42 GMT
As far as I know there are laws against hacking websites and such.. why don't you turn this matter to the local authorities?
I just find it hard to understand that someone can spend his time breaking apart months of hard work, instead of just politely pointing out to the webmaster that there is a security hole on his site.
Oh well, maybe these kids just find the kindergarden too dull these days. - Do you hack from there, maybe? :P
Just a thought though..
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 7 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by Amigo on 02-Jan-2002 22:55 GMT
i think it would be a good to idea to need to register in order to post. those who play around will not register and if they do they can always have their account terminated, and it is unlikely that they will do it over and over again because THEY WILL get tired eventually, by making it a process by filling out a form with lots of details etc, and require email confirmation to activate the account. And the serious people here wont mind doing that i wouldnt think, i wouldnt. therefore no anonymous posting, email is required, an alias can be acceptable but the person must write their real name which is hidden from other users but accessible to the moderators, of course people can lie about their name but its better than nothing. im not saying make it a pain to register an account, but make it a pain for those who come here and mess around by having their account terminated and constant reregistering only to get kicked again will eventually get old and theyll go away.
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 8 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by Graham on 02-Jan-2002 23:01 GMT
Sadly, it seems that one or two people are making it bad for the rest of us, and especially for the people who give up their own time and money to run these sites that are continuously hacked and messed around with.
I wouldn't be surprised to these useful sites be taken down, because I agree that the hassle of running them is going way beyond the worthy cause in the end. I would like ANN to stay, but I cannot see that happening in its current form. Yet why bother to create a new ANN when it will be hacked as well?
The only option I can see is to install Slashcode on a secure Linux (actually, why not OpenBSD?) box, change the graphics and add in advertising, and run ANN on this. Slashdot doesn't appear to be hackable, and has lasted a long time with many more users and wannabe hackers having a go at it. Same goes for Amiga.org.
Yes, it ain't pretty, but they have useful features:
- Downward moderation of trolls/abuse
- Upward moderation of good posts
- Story approval by site admin (Christian, etc) before posting
- Nested view of comments
- User management and loads of good stuff like that
It would lose the current ANN layout however, at least until the code was modified to look 'right' again...
Please note: Slashdot does not run PHP-Nuke etc. These are PHP-likes of the Perl code that Slashdot uses, except that Slashcode appears to be more secure.
The stuff that runs Kuro5hin might also be a good choice, and it is prettier in my opinion. Probably better suited to the hardware, Slashcode is a higher-end solution I believe I read somewhere, and likes better hardware. Kuro5hin also has story moderation, which would be useful as well.
There is some interesting Java stuff over at aceshardware.com as well, but not a lot of features.
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 9 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by Graham on 02-Jan-2002 23:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (Graham):
When I write "same goes for Amiga.org", I do of course mean that they should look at using one of the code bases that has a much better track record like Slashcode or Scoop (Kuro5hin), not that Amiga.org has a good track record!
If only I had some time, I would like to help in some way.
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 10 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by Smithy on 02-Jan-2002 23:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (Graham):
I think this is a good plan. I do like ANN's simple style, but if another codebase was imported it would give some features that might be useful for splatting these abusers.
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 11 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by Amigo on 02-Jan-2002 23:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (Smithy):
Christian, ever thought of using REBOL???
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 12 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by smithy on 02-Jan-2002 23:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (Amigo):
What about Java or a JSP solution? Or perhaps even a PowerBuilder one - the newer versions of PB have web features I hear.
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 13 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by Robb Perrone on 02-Jan-2002 23:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (Frank213):
I disagree. If someone can't be bothered to fill out a form - once, and log in to a to a forum, then they really can't feel too stongly abbout the opinion that they would post. It would cut down one the childish stuff [I would hope].
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 14 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by The Party is Over... on 02-Jan-2002 23:37 GMT
Yesterday all my troubles seemed so far away,
now it seems as though they're here to stay,
I believe in yesturday.
---The Beatles
Throughout life people will make you mad, disrespect you
and treat you bad. Let God deal with the things they do
cause hate in your heart will consume you, too.
---Will Smith, "Just The Two of Us"
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 15 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by Antoine Dubourg on 02-Jan-2002 23:38 GMT
What about a voting system which give a note about the smartness of comment or posting? If the note is bad, the item is automatically removed. Something have to be thought about avoiding system abuse (bounced mail confirmation?).
Best regards.
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 16 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by Ken Moyer on 02-Jan-2002 23:39 GMT
Don't give in to these terrorists! Make the posters register. Enough is enough.
I go to ANN everyday but the abuse is just plain stupid. A lot of us just want
to have reasons to keep our Amigas going, but between the people who want us to
just ditch them, emulate them on a PC or promise us that everything is going to
be allright - there has to be a middle ground where we can all discuss these
options without harrassment.
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 17 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by Skal Loret on 02-Jan-2002 23:50 GMT
Christian:
If I might make so bold, this stuff is doing little or nothing to help the cred
of much of anyone involved or the rest of us People not so conversant in the flaws, foibles and
incipient and long-term personality disorders of some people in the "Kommunitee"
take a look at this stuff and don't get a terminal case of the warm 'n fuzzies over
us lot. To say the very, very least.
Look, I hate "censorship" as much as the next blag artiste. I want the right to blow
it out my barracks bag as much as any other opinionated arsehole extant on this site.
But(! This is a big one too!), I also recognize that to not have to succumb to moderation
and censorship, I must be *responsible* in my postings here. That means that as much as *I*
would like to let fly, I can't and I won't.
That's the thing about all this that just bugs the pure shit out of me about all of this crap:
The utter lack of responsibility and maturity in this garbage.
If the idiots knew the real extent of the damage they have caused, I daresay the ones with a remaining
shard of self-awareness would strongly consider slitting their own throats.
-skal
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 18 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by Mike Veroukis on 02-Jan-2002 23:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 ([JC]):
>This is exactly why I left the amiga about 4 years ago, blind advocacy, lies,
>bullshit and propaganda. I now only work on Amiga's when Epic tell me we're
>releasing a project on it, and most of the work Amiga-side is done by Paul.
Well, I've always said that the fanatics amungst us will scare away a lot of good people. However, and no offense here, but your logic seems a bit odd. You say you no longer use Amigas because the community has pissed you off, yet, you still post on Amiga forums. It just seemed strange to me, that's all.
- Mike
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 19 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by Graham on 03-Jan-2002 00:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (Skal Loret):
Skal,
Unfortunately, the people posting crap are very aware of what they are doing, and they get off on it. The only way to hide these low-lifes is to ban them or moderate them out of sight, so there is no fun for them anymore.
They are the people who have fun shouting "Fire!" in the darkened cinema, but without any comeuppance when people get injured in the ensuing panic. These people are irresponsible immature scum, basically.
I feel it is everyone's right to have a gentle flame fest about the amiga on here, or talk about amiga related stuff. However, it is not their right to post non-amiga stuff of any shape or form. However, as this is happening, we need apt punishment for this act - banning and/or moderation, with the appropriate information being sent to ISPs regarding the abuse. Hacking should be reported to the police, not that much can be done. In order to enforce bans and moderation, a login system is needed. Temporary IP address bans should also be tried to see if it helps.
Shame is, where is the time and motivation to code the above?
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 20 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by redrumloa on 03-Jan-2002 00:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (Mike Veroukis):
What I don't understand is why someone would not use Amiga anymore because of some
jackass troll on a discussion forumn. Don't people use their Amiga because they
like the computer and find it usefull?
If a couple of women pissed me off, I wouldn't turn gay.
Having said that, I'm seriously starting to think ANN And AMIGA.ORG should become
private sites with strict rules. Maybe have a simple news page for the causal web
surfer, but only registered users could log in to enjoy all the features such as
forums and feedback etc.
Regards,
redrumloa
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 21 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by Mike Veroukis on 03-Jan-2002 00:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (Daniel Miller):
>Christian, your frustration is understandable. The Usenet Amiga groups have
>also been bombarded. I really have never seen anything like this, at least not
>this intense and widespread. It drives people away. I hope it doesn't drive
>you away.
Yeah, it's a bit bizzare. However, just like the attacks of 9-11 brought Americans and the world closer then they had ever been, I think we're seeing many Amigan's coming together again. I've seen posters supporting others whom they'd normally be at odds with. So yeah, there's a few lunatics out there causing trouble for us all, but we're in all this together and supporting each other. So I'm not worried about it too much, I just don't like to see people like Christian and Wayne getting shafted like this.
Christian (and Wayne too), you have my full support. Take what ever measures you need. I've noticed things here at ann have been very strange, especially today. I can appreciate the work you put in just to keep a site like this up.
And to quote a line from one of my favorite U2 songs;
"I know that the tide is turning 'round
so don't let the bastards grind you down".
- Mike
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 22 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by Mike Veroukis on 03-Jan-2002 00:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (redrumloa):
>What I don't understand is why someone would not use Amiga anymore because of
>some jackass troll on a discussion forumn. Don't people use their Amiga >because they like the computer and find it usefull?
Well, one would think... However, who wants to be in a vacuum? Without the community the Amiga is pretty stagnant on it's own. If the Amiga was the mainstream and I could get software from FutureShop or BestBuy, the community would be less important. I shudder at the thought of being without the community. Even though it pisses me off sometimes, you can't use an Amiga without it. That's how I see it. So if you get pissed off with the community, I can see people moving away from the computer as well.
>If a couple of women pissed me off, I wouldn't turn gay.
Even if they were the only two women on the planet? Well, that's what make-up sex is for right? ;-)
- Mike
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 23 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by redrumloa on 03-Jan-2002 00:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (Mike Veroukis):
You make a good point, however it is not the entire Amiga community casuing the
problem. I also get very tired of the wanna-be-hacker and the anonymous coward
trolls. However I am also very tired of people who claim they leave the Amiga
because someone pissed them off, that seems like a copout.
As for fighting between solutions(emulator, AOS4.0, MorphOS etc), that is to be
expected. However it seems to get nasty & personal at times. I think once hard
products of all parties have arrived and start to mature, people will be more
civil.
Oh yeah and thank god there is more than 2 women on the planet;-)
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 24 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by Hagge on 03-Jan-2002 00:46 GMT
Is it possible to add "a lot" of moderators and then just have a moderatebutton or something for them?
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 25 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by [JC] on 03-Jan-2002 00:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (Mike Veroukis):
Like I said, i'm employed by an amiga-involved publisher.
Plus I wasn't exactly *happy* to leave the Amiga in the first place, I had a lot of fun with it, but enough was enough...
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 26 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by Graham on 03-Jan-2002 01:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 ([JC]):
Surely the solution was to ignore the community as best as possible, if you didn't get along with them? Or find some subset of the community that you got along with much better than the others?
I really like the community still - there are a lot of interesting and intelligent people still, and ideas abound aplenty. Like any community there are the detractors, but we also now have some kind of prison outbreak as well making things extremely bad. We just have to hang together and get past it. Hopefully the release of real next generation hardware (both AmigaOne and Pegasos) and software (both AmigaOS4 and MorphOS) will stimulate the community and eradicate the naysayers and hackers.
The web (ANN.lu, Amiga.org) are (were) two of the best English sites remaining for Amigans to get news and discuss it. The Yahoo! groups and newsgroups are the other places to go. It would be a terrible shame to lose the former.
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 27 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by Rodney McDonell on 03-Jan-2002 01:17 GMT
All i think is needed is some type of IP tracker. Then find out what ISP the IP belongs to and send it to that IP, say what happens, present logs that tell the full story and also back up what you have said. Then let the authorities know about it. Many sites have some sort of IP tracking system. I dont see it being very hard to put in place.
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 28 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by Greg Hayes on 03-Jan-2002 01:27 GMT
Christian, a vast majority of Amigans appreciate what you do. That a few misanthropes try to shanghai every message forum is regrettable, but they should be ignored.
OTOH, I think it is a good idea to have some kind of registration for news posters. The comments section can remain a refuge for cowards. I doubt that most of us read every comment posted here....
It does appear that with the growing frustration of many Amigans, ppl have gotten meaner on the message boards. I wouldn't want to be a newbie on the Amiga scene right now.
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 29 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by teotwin on 03-Jan-2002 01:55 GMT
why not have the main page show forums for registered posters, and have a second page for unmoderated news items and forums?
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 30 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 03-Jan-2002 02:51 GMT
HAVE A NICE CRY KH00nt
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 31 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 03-Jan-2002 02:55 GMT
HAVE A NICE CRY KH00nt
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 32 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by sdfhsdiuh on 03-Jan-2002 03:03 GMT
adfoijadsfoiadsf
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 33 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by sdfhsdiuh on 03-Jan-2002 03:07 GMT
adfoijadsfoiadsf
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 34 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by Joe "Floid" Kanowitz on 03-Jan-2002 03:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (Amigo):
Amigo said:
>Christian, ever thought of using REBOL???
I've become interested in Ruby lately, and that's another potential alternative- however, it's not that Perl is, in itself, a problem, it's just that Christian is the sole maintainer of ANNCode, and OOPifying things may make it easier to distribute development. Of course, switching would likely entail a major rewrite, which is the sort of thing he probably doesn't have time for. :}
As to logging in, the real problem is that Slashcode and its variants have a poor UI if you prefer to avoid cookies. Even the ubiquitous UBB script allows you to enter your l/p from the post form itself, which is convenient enough- as it is, we have to type just as much to enter names and addresses.
Is ANN's codebase clean enough to become a Sourceforge project? Anyone know of similar services that welcome private projects? (Opening ANNcode without an initial invite-only scour would give the s'kids easy access to any obscure exploits)...
Just a few thoughts.
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 35 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by [JC] on 03-Jan-2002 03:38 GMT
Well this was 4-5 years ago when the people doing the lying and bullshitting was the people who owned the amiga, along with it's users and the magazines at the time. it was clearly bloody obvious the amiga had hit rock bottom, yet people were making stupid efforts to justify it. That, coupled with the fact I had to purchase a PC for college work over the expensive amiga upgrades I had planned made me leave the platform.
Oh and I hope that cunt filling the forum full of shit dies... please someone ping -f his ip from a large bandwidth line already
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 36 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by [JC] on 03-Jan-2002 03:42 GMT
Thatll be a script...
Yes, time to block 203.*
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 37 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by Graham on 03-Jan-2002 03:44 GMT
Nah, the IP addresses are being spoofed as well. No such luck.
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 38 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by erm on 03-Jan-2002 03:45 GMT
What? Little kiddy don't like we're saying about you, so you throw a fit and spam the comments. Someone needs to find out his real IP and report him to every relivant agency.
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 39 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by grrrrr on 03-Jan-2002 03:49 GMT
One of the things I like about phpWebsite is that you can limit the number of comments a user can make to a specific article.
Can't figure out an exploit on Ann so the delinquent resorts to this. I hope there is an per article comment limit. I would hate to see him bust the DB for ANN.
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 40 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 03-Jan-2002 03:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 ([JC]):
Amiga is still the best no matter what you think. Depite all the crap that poeple do , and we arent all that bad
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 41 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by Gil Knutson on 03-Jan-2002 04:01 GMT
Christian, Christian.
When will you learn not to let idiots control how you feel? : ))
I have ONLY positive things to think or say about your efforts. You are doing a terrific job! Remember, there ARE many, many defective humans in this world, and unfortunately some of them are Amiga users, and some are not. Their opinion is worth squat! If they get you upset, they have succeeded. DON'T let the dregs of the world pull you down! If I had the power, I would zap the idiots who are causing the grief to the Deepest of Computer Hells, where they will be doomed to have to use WindowsME on a 133mHz Intel machine with 32 megs 24 hours a day for Eternity.
Gil
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 42 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by [JC] on 03-Jan-2002 04:03 GMT
to the last two posters, it is idiotic comments like this that draws morons to take the piss out of the people on the forum and flood it with crap.
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 43 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by Mike on 03-Jan-2002 04:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (Graham):
The only option I can see is to install Slashcode on a secure Linux (actually, why not OpenBSD?) box, change the graphics and add in advertising, and run ANN on this. Slashdot doesn't appear to be hackable, and has lasted a long time with many more users and wannabe hackers having a go at it. Same goes for Amiga.org.
They havent tried hard enough or perhaps the real hackers get in and out without ever being noticed. Rember keyword "wannbe".
Yes, it ain't pretty, but they have useful features:
- Downward moderation of trolls/abuse
Wont work, you can reregistar time and time again . This leads to I dont agree with him so he is gone.
* Using Abusive language and swear words, or insulting other persons is not tolerated, and any such comments can be deleted with any further warning. This he has . He really needs to enforce it.
- Upward moderation of good posts
- Story approval by site admin (Christian, etc) before posting
- Nested view of comments
- User management and loads of good stuff like that
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 44 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by Mike on 03-Jan-2002 04:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (Amigo):
I was just going to suggest that.
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 45 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by Gil Knutson on 03-Jan-2002 04:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (Daniel Miller):
I agree whole-heartedly! Make this a registered site, and NEVER allow anonymous stuff... it seems to bring out the dregs of society. Remember, MOST of those who won't use their own names are chicken-sh*t cowards at heart anyway. They don't have the b*lls to let anyone know who they are because then they are open to return mail. Most of them are bullies... to scared to make a stand in their own names. Try to ignore them, although I know that is hard when you are doing something that takes so much out of you, as this, I am sure, does.
Try to hang in there. I am on your side, that is for sure!
Gil
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 46 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 03-Jan-2002 04:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (Graham):
Temporary IP address bans should also be tried to see if it helps.
Ever wonder why its called Temp. IP .You will end up banning somone else instead of the person you wanted to ban.
Now static IP ban ok. Although you should give them a second chance.
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 47 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by Gil Knutson on 03-Jan-2002 04:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (bbrockie):
This is similar to those brush fires in Australia... at least 14 young people are responsible for setting the fires, so the news said, because they were bored during the Summer Holidays. Sad lot of idiots. Too bad that some of them will have children and pass on their defective genes. : )))
Gil
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 48 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by Mike on 03-Jan-2002 04:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (redrumloa):
Wanye banned people becasue he didnt like them or agree with them . He was way to strict. Amiga.org got hacked for doing as such. Kemp just needs to inforce ever so slighty what he warns the people not to do.
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 49 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by Mike on 03-Jan-2002 04:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 ([JC]):
You can ignore the posting by not going here. What you did was totally illogical. The Amiga is the best. No reason to leave. Even if you disagree with half of the people on here. I disagree with alot of the Republicans. but im still a Republican
MOTD 02/01/2002 : Comment 50 of 174ANN.lu
Posted by Steve on 03-Jan-2002 04:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 26 (Graham):
Jc,
Forget the AmigaOne as Next Generation . It is more of a mac/pc hybrid clone. Go and buy a mac if you want an AMIGAONE. Never leave any organzition just becasue you disagree with half of the people in it. Clean up the organization at the very least.
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