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[News] MorphOS program guidelines onlineANN.lu
Posted on 20-Feb-2002 15:48 GMT by Christophe Decanini38 comments
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First release of the MorphOS program guidelines & overview documentation has been placed online in a number of formats: HTML, PostScript,PDF& Text.
MorphOS program guidelines online : Comment 1 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by Rik Sweeney on 20-Feb-2002 15:15 GMT
That was painful to read. I thought I understood C. Could have been worse though. It could have been all in assembler.
Or C# - I mean Java
MorphOS program guidelines online : Comment 2 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by Graham on 20-Feb-2002 16:49 GMT
Whats with all the "A-Box" stuff - why not just say "AmigaOS", which is the official name.
Oh, and to define a program as being MorphOS native, you #DEFINE __amigappc__ to be 1 !
Why not #define __morphos__1?
MorphOS program guidelines online : Comment 3 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 20-Feb-2002 16:56 GMT
So, when will we see a version for x86? ;)
MorphOS program guidelines online : Comment 4 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by Mika Hanhijärvi on 20-Feb-2002 16:58 GMT
What A-Box and A-BoxOS ? Atleast I do use Amiga and AmigaOS
MorphOS program guidelines online : Comment 5 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by Kent Seaton on 20-Feb-2002 18:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Rik Sweeney):
It's not all bad, there are some key areas that I can easily understand and I'm a Java developer. Hey wait a second. Nope, it's not Java, unless they've defined a class called UWORD as "public static final" in some other package, and what is this APTR thing?
C# != Java, but it sure the hell looks, smells, tastes, and programs like it. C# is about as good as J++ is (sad and in need of a serious overhaul).
MorphOS program guidelines online : Comment 6 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by Sigbjørn Skjæret on 20-Feb-2002 20:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Graham):
It's called A-Box because it refers to the Amiga-emulation box, it's got nothing to do with AmigaOS...
..and __amigappc__ is not a #define, but a variable in the ELF binary that will remain public so that MorphOS can tell the difference between that and PowerUP ELFs and act accordingly .. PowerUP ELFs has a slightly different way of starting up, while MorphOS ELFs act like pure self-contained PPC binaries, which is why it was named __amigappc__...
- CISC
MorphOS program guidelines online : Comment 7 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by Amigan Software on 20-Feb-2002 20:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (Kent Seaton):
You must not have done much Amiga programming if you have never come across an APTR! :-D
Can we please see a version of that document in AmigaGuide format?
MorphOS program guidelines online : Comment 8 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by kjetil on 20-Feb-2002 20:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Sigbjørn Skjæret):
>can tell the difference between that and PowerUP ELFs and act accordingly ..
>PowerUP ELFs has a slightly different way of starting up, while MorphOS ELFs
>act like pure self-contained PPC binaries, which is why it
Just like to know:
PowerUP ELFs don't act like pure self-contained PPC binaries?
And watt do you mean by self-contained.
MorphOS program guidelines online : Comment 9 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by David Scheibler on 20-Feb-2002 21:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (Amigan Software):
>Can we please see a version of that document in AmigaGuide format?
What's so hard about looking into <exec/types.h>?
MorphOS program guidelines online : Comment 10 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by Lennart Fridén on 20-Feb-2002 21:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Rik Sweeney):
Nah, it could've been easier - it could've been assembler...:-)
MorphOS program guidelines online : Comment 11 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by Lennart Fridén on 20-Feb-2002 21:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (Kent Seaton):
APTRA POINTER
Didn't you ever program your Amigas people? Real programming, not AMOS? :-)
MorphOS program guidelines online : Comment 12 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by Kent Seaton on 20-Feb-2002 21:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (Lennart Fridén):
Lol... sorry guys, forgot the smiley on the end of that question. APTR is about completely obvious to most any programmer. Just trying to have a little fun with it. I'm in a good mood today.
MorphOS program guidelines online : Comment 13 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by Sigbjørn Skjæret on 20-Feb-2002 22:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (kjetil):
PowerUP ELFs need to be launched in a special way to work, and most need special runtime-linked funcs...
This is not the case for true MorphOS ELFs, which work just like a normal Amiga binary (except ofcos it's an ELF) .. I could go into much more detail here, but that would only be understandable by advanced Amiga programmers, but those should already know the details of this... ;)
- CISC
MorphOS program guidelines online : Comment 14 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by Graham on 20-Feb-2002 22:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Sigbjørn Skjæret):
So why wasn't the variable called __morphosppc__ then? It is for native MorphOS programs running on the Quark microkernel itself, yes? It has nothing to do with the Amiga.
Or is it for AmigaOS programs that are compiled to work on MorphOS only, but still in the "A\Box" or whatever you call it?
MorphOS program guidelines online : Comment 15 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by Neko on 20-Feb-2002 23:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (Graham):
> So why wasn't the variable called __morphosppc__ then? It is for native
> MorphOS programs running on the Quark microkernel itself, yes?
No.. it's for programs running under the AmigaOS, which runs under the A-Box
emulation environment. Hence, __amigappc__. If it were to run under Quark,
it would have a different name.
> It has nothing to do with the Amiga.
That's where you misunderstand the documentation. The applications are run,
like every Amiga executable, under the AmigaOS, which runs under the A-Box
emulation system - the emulation system is described in previous chapters
of the documentation.
> Or is it for AmigaOS programs that are compiled to work on MorphOS only, but
> still in the "A\Box" or whatever you call it?
Lets recap. You have Standard Amiga Hunk Format binaries. 68k. Like the stuff
you get on the OS3.1 floppy disks. You have ELF PowerUP binaries which need
strange things to happen, controlled by ppc.library, to start up right. Then
you have Extended Hunk Format binaries which are WarpUP's contribution to the
mess. And then you have ELF MorphOS binaries.
Since ELF is ELF is ELF, MorphOS needs a way to determine whether it's some
strange other PPC ELF binary (PowerUP or LinuxPPC maybe), or one specifically
intended to run under the MorphOS A-Box environment - hence, __amigappc__ is
created in the source code and appears in the symbol table of the ELF binary.
The way it works is:
Q-Box (Quark)
-> A-Box (rom replacements)
---> disk based AmigaOS (and/or ppc replacements)
-----> Binaries (AHF, EHF, ELF, ELF with __amigappc__)
Neko
MorphOS program guidelines online : Comment 16 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by Sigbjørn Skjæret on 20-Feb-2002 23:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (Graham):
If you review the timeline I think you will see why this name was chosen .. anyway, it's still perfectly valid as an indication of being a ppc amiga binary...
- CISC
MorphOS program guidelines online : Comment 17 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by amorel on 21-Feb-2002 02:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (Sigbjørn Skjæret):
Aint the zealots pissed to not be able to find any flamebait in this news issue? ;-)
MorphOS program guidelines online : Comment 18 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by kjetil on 21-Feb-2002 07:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (Sigbjørn Skjæret):
So can you run the MorphOS bins in AmigaPPC os?
or will you anconter problems?
MorphOS program guidelines online : Comment 19 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by Lennart Fridén on 21-Feb-2002 08:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (Kent Seaton):
:-) Right, this just shows how dependant we've become of smilies etc in order to determine the mood of the "typist". :-)
MorphOS program guidelines online : Comment 20 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by Rik Sweeney on 21-Feb-2002 08:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (Lennart Fridén):
:(
MorphOS program guidelines online : Comment 21 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by Graham on 21-Feb-2002 13:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (Sigbjørn Skjæret):
Nit picking, but...
By your definition, this new ELF format with __amigappc__ variable is able to run on any Amiga with PPC card running AmigaOS with PowerUp?
If it *only* runs on MorphOS, whether or not it is in the A\Box or native environment, then it isn't really Amiga is it? Why not call it __aboxppc__ ? :)
Graham
MorphOS program guidelines online : Comment 22 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by cheesegrate on 21-Feb-2002 13:16 GMT
so when can we expect the pegasos? 2003? ;)
MorphOS program guidelines online : Comment 23 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by Neko on 21-Feb-2002 16:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 21 (Graham):
It's called __amigappc__ because it runs under the A-Box environment, which
has changed name from Amiga environment for obvious reasons.
If you are running MorphOS on ANY machine (be it a CyberstormPPC or Pegasos)
then it does present an environment intended to mimic the Amiga - custom chip
interrupts and CIA timers and the rest, via hardware if available, or through
the standard systems (Exec interrupts, timer.device) if not.
__amigappc__ was already in wide use by that time so that name DIDN'T change -
but of course it is still relevant because it refers to binaries to be executed
under an AmigaOS (be it OS3.9 or a fully PPC-coded replacement) running under
the A-Box emulator.
It should be noted that the A-Box is simply a task under Q-Box (Quark) which
doesn't do much other than mimic an Amiga. __aboxppc__ would be misleading
since you don't run under Quark's A-Box task, you run under the PPC
exec.library replacement.
I don't know why it's so hard to grasp for you. Does it really matter what
the name of the variable is? Or are you trying to find something to argue
about? We know you hate MorphOS, admit it and go away and bug someone else :)
Neko
MorphOS program guidelines online : Comment 24 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by Dk on 21-Feb-2002 17:34 GMT
BOOL MyInterrupt(void)
{
struct IntDataData *MyIntData=(struct IntData*) REG_A1;
struct ExecBase *SysBase=MyIntData->SysBase;
u_int8_t *PPCRegs;
/* put your code here */
return (0);
}
Oh no ! There are putting their '*' on the wrong side ! :-)
I prefer this style (which moreover uses some tiny C++ stuff) :
(Don't blame me, I'm just teasing :-))
bool MyInterrupt()
{
IntData* pMyIntData(IntData*) REG_A1;
ExecBase* pSysBaseMyIntData->SysBase;
uint8* pPPCRegs;
// Put your code here
return false;
}
MorphOS program guidelines online : Comment 25 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by Graham on 21-Feb-2002 17:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (Neko):
I don't hate MorphOS. Some of its proponents maybe, but not the OS itself, and even then hate is way too strong a word.
And I think that calling the variable __amigappc__ is misleading, even if it is only nitpicking.
Because it doesn't run under standard Amiga PPC systems, only MorphOS PPC systems running the ABox emulation.
And legally there is probably an issue with having the word amiga in your sources and binaries, as you don't have the right to use that name. I personally don't care, but someone else might in the future. I am only trying to help you in the long term! :)
Of course you can bury your head in the sand and tell me to go away again, but I have only been trying to ask a question and sort out a potential future problem for you before you reach v1.0 and things start being non-reversable.
Graham
MorphOS program guidelines online : Comment 26 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 21-Feb-2002 18:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (Graham):
>And legally there is probably an issue with having the word amiga in your
>sources and binaries, as you don't have the right to use that name.
>
Why, it's a common spanish word. O:-)
MorphOS program guidelines online : Comment 27 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by Sigbjørn Skjæret on 21-Feb-2002 20:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (Graham):
Look, at the time the name made perfect sense, even you must admit that, but we're a nice bunch, so we deprecated __amigappc__ in favor of __abox__ .. just for you .. that's what I call service... ;)
- CISC
MorphOS program guidelines online : Comment 28 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 21-Feb-2002 20:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 27 (Sigbjørn Skjæret):
Hear, hear!
MorphOS program guidelines online : Comment 29 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by SnuggleBunny on 21-Feb-2002 20:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 27 (Sigbjørn Skjæret):
You shouldn't have done that.
Now Graham is going to think his brain fart of an opinion actually matters to anyone other than himself.
MorphOS program guidelines online : Comment 30 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by Graham on 21-Feb-2002 23:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 27 (Sigbjørn Skjæret):
Erm, I wasn't expecting that! (blushes)
(Yes, I agree that at the time it would have made good sense, btw)
Erm, er, keep up the good work!
(Shuffles around feeling guilty about even bringing up the subject now)
MorphOS program guidelines online : Comment 31 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 21-Feb-2002 23:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 27 (Sigbjørn Skjæret):
Will you also revive "caipirinha" somehow? ;-)
MorphOS program guidelines online : Comment 32 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by Daniel Miller on 22-Feb-2002 01:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 27 (Sigbjørn Skjæret):
SS typed:
> Look, at the time the name made perfect sense, even
> you must admit that, but we're a nice bunch, so we
> deprecated __amigappc__ in favor of __abox__ ..
> just for you .. that's what I call service... ;)
> - CISC
You should have changed it to _atari_st_ just to spite Graham and his dumb nagging. ;)
MorphOS program guidelines online : Comment 33 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by Graham on 22-Feb-2002 09:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 32 (Daniel Miller):
But that would not have made any sense.
But in a world where companies send lawyers out over competitors having their company name in web page meta tags and the like, you have to admit that have __amigappc__ as a requirement for non-amiga compatible binaries within a competing product to AmigaOS4/5 is hinting at trouble in the future. Why bring this possibility down upon yourself?
Of course you can now accuse me of saving Amiga Inc. lawyers fees in the future now :) Anyway, the new method saves 4 characters of typing :) <-- look smiley I am trying to be nice here, so why don't you?
MorphOS program guidelines online : Comment 34 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by nOw2 on 22-Feb-2002 12:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (Lennart Fridén):
What's a BPTR then?
:)
MorphOS program guidelines online : Comment 35 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 22-Feb-2002 20:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (Anonymous):
Yeah, a x86 version would make all this quite useful. As long as it is PPC only, the whole system will be a 'techno-freak only' system, because no one else will buy the expensive hardware needed to run the thing. That is a serious limitation, and it will definitely limit the propability of success.
I'm not saying that x86 is better off or worse off than PPC from a technological point of view. But x86 is definitely better off from a business point of view if you are aiming at a broader market segment than 'old amiga techno-freaks'.
Is there something technological that would prevent a x86 version? Or is it perhaps only some philosophical obstacles that has to be overcome?
MorphOS program guidelines online : Comment 36 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 22-Feb-2002 21:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 35 (Anonymous):
>Is there something technological that would prevent a x86 version? Or is it >perhaps only some philosophical obstacles that has to be overcome?
It is not phylosophy. It is the reality of the market:
Go x86 and die.
MorphOS program guidelines online : Comment 37 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by Daniel MIller on 23-Feb-2002 11:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 33 (Graham):
Graham typed:
> Of course you can now accuse me of saving Amiga
> Inc. lawyers fees in the future now :) Anyway, the
> new method saves 4 characters of typing :) <-- look
> smiley I am trying to be nice here, so why don't you?
You didn't notice my smiley? Graham if the determination was made to change that designation to _abox_ that is fine with me, however it was not a basis to sue, and neither is anything else. You really had to dig deep in the technical document to find something, and in my opinion it is just indicative of the desperation of the arguers who like to stir trouble and then disingenuously say "oh I am just trying to save MorphOS trouble in the long run and do you lot a favor."
MorphOS program guidelines online : Comment 38 of 38ANN.lu
Posted by Ivan Awfulitch on 24-Feb-2002 11:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 34 (nOw2):
>What's a BPTR then?
BIG POINTER
;)
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