21-Sep-2017 08:52 GMT.
UNDER CONSTRUCTION
Anonymous, there are 134 items in your selection [1 - 50] [51 - 100] [101 - 134]
[Forum] OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORTANN.lu
Posted on 05-Mar-2002 23:22 GMT by 4pLaY134 comments
View flat
View list
Status: February 13, 2002 (Status as of February 1) Ben Hermans, LL.M managing partner Hyperion Entertainment Read on... 1.0 AMIGA OS 4.0 DESIGN GOALS

- 1 - Migrate OS 3.9 from 68K to PPC
- 2 - Untie the OS from the Amiga custom chipsets
- 3 - Introduce modern functionality
- 4 - Eliminate key performance bottle-necks
- 5 - Prepare the Amiga OS as a host-OS for Amiga DE

1.1 DEVELOPMENT UPDATE

* Exec Second Generation (Exec SG)
Exec is the kernel of the AmigaOS and is currently written in 68K assembly.
Exec will be re-written for in C and new functionality will be introduced to allow the deployment of OS 4 on any suitable PPC hardware including but not limited to the Amiga One, Blizzard PPC, Cyberstorm PPC, Shark PPC from Elbox, Pegasos from bPlan etc.
The following features are planned:
Hardware abstraction layer Virtual memory New library interface Resource tracking and management Optional memory protection WarpOS backwards compatibility
The following design documents regarding Exec SG were already written and are either finalised or being discussed:
- New library model (final draft)
- Hardware abstraction layer (first draft)
- Virtual environment (first draft)
All design documents are available as PDF files.
Both Dave Haynie and Heinz Wrobel have agreed to serve as technical consultants and the design documents for the HAL and Virtual Environment are currently being re-written to take account of the relevant feedback we collected.

Development status:

Actual coding on the higher level functionality of Exec is already under way.

Most of the “high level” functionality of Exec SG is already implemented (some 50 functions) which includes all list and tag functions and most notably the memory subsystem and parts of the new library scheme.

The memory system is for now limited to the “classic” memory system i.e. the MemHeader/MemChunk functionality. A more sophisticated system is planned and VM support will also be added down the line.

All of the implemented functions and especially the memory subsystem were successfully tested and withstood torture tests without problem.

Work is currently underway on the booting process.

The plan is to adapt a remote gdb kernel so that the whole debugging process can be cross-hosted on Linux thus making debugging substantially easier.

All in all the work is around 50% done.
* 68K emulation

The 68 emulation will be key to OS 4 with many parts of the operating system still in 68K form as well as a very large base of applications and games in 68K.
Development status of the JIT emulator:
Nearly all 68040 integer instructions are now emulated and work is about to start on FPU emulation, OS integration and further performance optimisation.

Emulated opcodes:
data transfer: "move" opcodes, moveq, lea, pea, movem, movec, clr, scc arithmetics: add, addi, adda, addx, addq, sub, subi, suba, subx, subq, neg, mulu, muls, divs, divu comparing: cmp, cmpi, cmpm, cmpa shifts: asl, lsl, rol, asr, lsr, ror, roxr, roxl flow control: bra, dbra, bsr, jmp, jsr, rts, rtr conditional branches: dbcc.x, bcc.x logic opcodes: eor, eori, not, andi, and, ori, or, btst, bset, bclr, bchg, tas miscellaneous: nop, exg, swap, tst, ext, extb, link, unlk

Adressing: all addressing modes which are supported in 68020 Flag emulation: negative, overflow, carry, zero, extended
During dynamic recomplilation a low-level flag data-flow analysis allows run-time optimalisations of recompiled code.

* PPC native TCP/IP stack & PPP drivers

Early tests already suggest that this is the fastest TCP/IP stack found on the Amiga.

Features are as follows:

- implemented as a single shared library - compatible with the Amiga standard "bsdsocket" API, as defined by the AmiTCP product - enhanced API for more control over the inner workings and configuration - built-in DHCP client - Internet Superserver (inetd) - IP filtering and networking address translation - drivers for asynchronous PPP (dial-up networking) and PPP over Ethernet

Development status:
The TCP/IP stack (“Roadshow”) and PPP drivers have been completed with the following issues outstanding:
- GUI (also required for the PPP drivers)
- SSL implementation/integration.
SSL V2 is very close to completion.

* Re-implementation of the Amiga file system (FFS2) for PPC

FFS2 is a fully backwards compatible re-implementation in C of the Fast File System. It supports media > 4 GByte, and a new variant of the file/directory name storage format which allows for long file names (up to 108 characters).
Development status:
Completed and successfully tested.
* Recovery and Salvage tools for FFS2 and SFS
Salvage, Undelete, Unformat, Repair, RDBSalv, ReOrg/Defrag, Check Integrity etc. with full support for FFS2 and SFS
Development status:

Filesystem Check, Salvage (recovery by copying to another partition), Undelete, Optimize ("ReOrg"/"Defrag"), Find Partitions and Unformat are done. The filesystem Repair function still needs some work. Localization and user documenation is not done yet.

* PPC native RTG system (Picasso 96 V3)
The RTG system allows for the use of modern graphics cards such as the Matrox and ATI cards on the Amiga.
Development status:
Permedia 2 driver: 85% completed Permedia 3 driver: 60% completed Voodoo 3 driver: 100% completed Matrox G450/G550: work in progress ATI Radeon family: work in progress

Picasso 96 V3 will subsequently be ported to PPC with the use of the new Exec SG library model for optimal performance.
An arithmetically optimised PPC native version of layers.library is planned.
* Warp3D (3D driver system)

Warp3D is a powerful yet low-level 3D API which is both available on the classic Amiga and intent/Amiga DE which allows developers to rapidly migrate 3D content between both platforms.
Development status:

Permedia 2 driver: 100% completed Permedia 3 driver: work to start upon completion of 2D drivers Voodoo 3 driver: 100% completed Matrox G450/G550: work to start upon completion of 2D drivers ATI Radeon family: work to start upon completion of 2D drivers
* OpenGL 1.3 support (Mesa 4.0)
OpenGL is a cross-platform (Mac, Linux, Windows, AmigaDE etc.) high-level 3D API originally developed by Silicon Graphics.
Support for OpenGL 1.3 will be provided by porting the open source project Mesa (which now passes all SGI compliance tests) which will sit on top of Warp3D so that graphics-card functionality not currently offered by the OpenGL API may be supported nonetheless.
Development status:
Work will start once Warp3D V5 has been completed.
* PPC native RTA system based on AHI
Developer: Martin Blom and others
A Retargetable Audio System allows the use of plug-in soundcards (PCI or Zorro II).

AHI by Martin Blom is currently the de facto standard on the Amiga and a PPC native version will be offered with support for a wide variety of soundcards including but not limited to all current Amiga soundcards and the Soundblaster 128 and Live (EMU10K1) cards.
Development status:
Martin Blom has started work on the Soundblaster Live drivers.
* PPC native Intuition and Reaction
* Reaction is the BOOPSI based GUI system for the Amiga, introduced in OS 3.5 and extended in OS 3.9.
The functionality of Reaction will be extended by providing more classes and be integrating Reaction better within the OS.
The addition of the following classes is being contemplated:
-application.class - name not finalized. This class will be a "parent" and likely unify window class and arexx class management together, ease management of multi-window applications and support easy creation of applications as commodities.
-speedhint.class - a new help display class based on the speenthint code from window.class, however this will allow for a more powerful API and future growth path.
-popwin.gadget - similar to chooser.gadget but allows a popup display containing most any other gadget as a child - most useful for a popup listview. For this gadget to function, Intuition needs to gain some new ability. The safety of making these changes and therefore including the gadget will need to be evaluated via beta testing.
- prefs.class - a new baseclass that allows for custom plug-in preferences modules for any of the ReAction classes. Subclasses need to be written for the existing ReAction classes and supported in ReActionPrefs.
The following functionality will also be implemented:
Drag and Drop support.
New “ghosted” look
* Intuition will sport the following new features:
New DrawInfo pens, Enhanced window borders Resolution-adaptive system gadgets User-selectable styles for system glyphs and 3D frames with support for external plug-ins Configurable look for proportional gadgets New-style (3D recessed) “disabled” look for gadgets where applicable Gad-Tools enhancements (pop-up capability for cycle gadgets etc.) Full-user control of Workbench palette
Development status:
Work is expected to be completed in time for release of OS 4.0 with more work already planned for subsequent updates of the OS 4.0.
* SCSI drivers for onboard (UW) SCSI controllers
The current SCSI drivers for the onboard SCSI controllers of the Cyberstorm PPC and the BlizzardPPC are written in 68K code which cannot be emulated due to the usage of MMU instructions and the different MMU pagesizes of the 68K and PPC line of CPU’s.
It is therefore necessary to replace these drivers.
Support for other SCRIPTS based PCI-based SCSI controllers is planned to allow an easy migration of SCSI hardware to non-SCSI systems such as the AmigaOne.
Development status:
The SCSI driver framework is completed with work in progress on implementing the actual driver for the Cyberstorm PPC onboard SCSI controller.
Good progress is being made and the driver is expected to be finished in time.
* WarpInput API
WarpInput is an API for multimedia controller devices (akin to DirectInput on Windows) which allows a programmer to provide support through one API for a wide variety of input-devices such as keyboard, mouse, joysticks(analog and digital), track-ball, Playstation controller etc.
The design document is in its second draft and implementation has started.
Development status:
Work is underway to re-implement lowlevel.library in C.
* Minimal USB stack
A minimal USB stack would allow for the use of USB based keyboards and mice which would effectively aid in untying the OS from the custom chipsets.
Development status:
Design documents are drafted and implementation work is underway.
* PPC native datatypes
PPC native datatypes for common formats such TIFF, JPEG, PNG and BMP.
Development status:
Completed but still need to be recompiled for OS 4.
* New HDToolbox
HDToolbox is a utiliy which allow for the formatting and partitioning of storage devices.
The new incarnation of HDToolbox will offer substantially more functionality than the current version.
Development status:
- Lowlevel part ('the Engine'):
Some 80% of the written code was tested with a total of about 85% written. Succesfully tested code includes: removing/adding partition and filesystem, moving and sizing partition, saving RDB back to disk or to a file. The automatic error reporting and correction of RDB structures is still missing. This is the last remaining major item which remains to be implemented in the Engine.
- Highlevel part (GUI):
The partitioning window is 100% complete owing to a new gadget designed by Massimo Tantignone. So is the filesystem selection window barring the gadgets related to the correction/error reporting of RDB values. Two windows remain to be fully managed: the Installation window (already working but incomplete) and the lowlevel SCSI utilities window which is fully designed but not yet working. Also missing is a complete test of the GUI layout functionalities: the GUI will try to open a custom screen if the current screen is not big enough but this is not tested yet.
Still to do: support for localization and user documentation.
Overall the development status is estimated to be 85% completed.
* Support for TrueType/OpenType fonts
Currently the AmigaOS does not support TrueType fonts which is a serious deficiency.
A new font-engine as well as a reworked version of the bullet API, bullet.library, diskfont.library is called for.
Development status:
Work on the initial version for OS 4 is around 95% completed.
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 1 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by HammerD (65.48.61.97) on 05-Mar-2002 22:30 GMT
Sounds great, so do you have the March 1st update? :) This info is a month old!
HammerD
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 2 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by Graham (213.123.41.162) on 05-Mar-2002 22:31 GMT
Nice to know, although I am sure that I saw this a couple of weeks ago somewhere. Also, bear in mind that this is the status as of the 1st of February, not now. Maybe in a few days time we will get a March 1st OS4.0 status report :)
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 3 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by Allen (62.253.128.6) on 05-Mar-2002 23:21 GMT
So no new, i.e. PPC version of WB then?
I guess this will be emulated?
Allen
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 4 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by Budda (62.252.192.6) on 06-Mar-2002 00:15 GMT
Hm, I hope it is an old report. There seems a lot of work still to be done!
As for the WB - don't forget to use 68k Scalos with AOS v4 ;-)
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 5 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by James Carroll (203.97.2.242) on 06-Mar-2002 01:02 GMT
Where did this information come from? I've searched the AmigaOne and OS 4.0 mailing lists, with no success.
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 6 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by Mika Hanhijärvi (62.142.130.12) on 06-Mar-2002 02:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (James Carroll):
It looks like internal report for betatesters and developers. I hope anyone don't get any trouble because of this.
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 7 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by Mika Hanhijärvi (62.142.130.12) on 06-Mar-2002 02:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (James Carroll):
It looks like internal report for betatesters and developers. I hope noone gets into trouble because of this.
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 8 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by JetRacer (212.151.16.147) on 06-Mar-2002 03:42 GMT
It's correct that there's no support for truetype in OS3.1, but that support have been available from aminet for years. And for postscript fonts aswell (not mentioned though).
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 9 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by koan (172.149.90.68) on 06-Mar-2002 06:34 GMT
So what's the current expected completion date ?
Summer ? Winter ?
Good news though. Wish there was mention of testing on
A1/Pegasos platform.
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 10 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by priest (192.100.124.220) on 06-Mar-2002 06:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 9 (koan):
>Wish there was mention of testing on A1/Pegasos platform.
I bet we hear it immediately if either one of those becomes available. ;)
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 11 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by SlimJim (130.235.59.132) on 06-Mar-2002 07:29 GMT
First saw this on
http://www.amigarulez.org/
(Didn't post it here, though) I'm not sure where they got it from.
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 12 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion (134.58.253.115) on 06-Mar-2002 07:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (SlimJim):
This is a progress report that was supposed to be released on the Swedish show a couple of days ago.
It reflects the progress on February 1, 2002.
For some reason or another, nobody noticed this progress report on the show nor did anybody notice that Martin Blom was demonstrating Soundblaster Live! drivers.
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 13 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by Karl (213.67.79.18) on 06-Mar-2002 09:00 GMT
This information was realesed at AmiGBG 2002
read more at www.amigbg.com
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 14 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by James (194.82.103.140) on 06-Mar-2002 09:52 GMT
I'm really looking forward to OS4 and its shaping up well. My only problem is that after using PFS3 I really don't want to go back to FFS and a life of invalidated disks (how long will it take to validate 10GB partitions?) and undeleting files. I guess I'll be able to use the m68k PFS3 on any of my partitions apart from the boot partition as the m68k emul I presume is loaded from disk not the bios/kickstart.
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 15 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by Mika Hanhijärvi (62.142.130.12) on 06-Mar-2002 10:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (James):
Yep i use PFS3 too and going back to FFS does not feel tempting. I'm quite sure PFS3 will run just fine under emulation, but it would be good to have eg. SFS ported to OS4. PFS development seems to be stopped :(
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 16 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by John Block (62.60.118.48) on 06-Mar-2002 10:28 GMT
SCSI support is limited, I'm using SCSI from surf squirrel and
would simply like to buy a SCSI cable and plug my SCSI gear into
an AmigaOne.
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 17 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous (147.188.212.24) on 06-Mar-2002 10:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (James):
Never got this, why do some people swear by PFS? I've always used Amiga's FFS (and earlier ones) for 10 years now, and am yet to have an invalidated disk. Touch wood :)
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 18 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion (134.58.253.115) on 06-Mar-2002 10:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (Mika Hanhijärvi):
SFS will indeed be ported to OS 4.
It won't be part of the OS itself but will be part of the contributions drawer.
Note as well that there is a comprehensive salvage and repair suite included with OS 4 which should address a lot of issues.
Moreover, FFS2 seems to scale well with additional performance being thrown at it.
FFS2 is just intended for backwards compatibility, future versions of OS 4.x will include a much more advanced (and incompatible) filesystem.
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 19 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by James (194.82.103.141) on 06-Mar-2002 10:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (Anonymous):
Count your blessing, not everyone has been as lucky as you. There are always going to mbe exceptions. Generaly if your Amiga crashes or reboots while writting to the disk it can invalidate the partition. If you're a developer or someone you likes to try new/beta software this can happen a lot - browsers since they constantly cache files are a big headache. Hence the long argument for memory protection so that crashing progs don't bring down the system. (and yes I'm aware of the drawbacks of MP).
Regards
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 20 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by Jules (139.149.1.195) on 06-Mar-2002 11:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (Anonymous):
Because FFS can fail if the machine goes down while writing to the hard disk. I used to be plagued by drive invalidation and having to recover files after a machine crash (especially when using Voyager) until I got PFS3. The thought of all that lost time in drive revalidation and trying to recover data with DiskSlave etc, of the irrecoverable data an the frustration with FFS makes me shudder. Since PFS3 I have NEVER had a single drive invalidation and have NEVER lost a single file, even though my machine has crashed on numerous occasions.
Some poeple claim that PFS can fail, and that when it does it's pretty catastrophic in terms of software lost, but I've now used it for over 3 years and it's proved much more hardy than FFS ever did. In combination with occasional drive backups (not that I've ever had to rely on this with PFS3), I'm confident my data is secure (a confidence I never had with FFS).
Other PFS3 advantages over FFS are that reading and writing to and from the HD is noticably faster, and that there is easy support for drives over 4G in size.
Unless FFS2 in OS4 is seriously revamped and made more robust, there is no way on Earth I ever want to go back to that.
Rgds
Jules
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 21 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by Rik Sweeney (195.216.7.91) on 06-Mar-2002 11:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (Jules):
I've never actually ever lost anything using FFS, except for the one time when I was defragmenting my HD and the computer decided to lock up. I got 75% of it back though with DiskSalv. I really don't understand what people do to their HDs to make them crash so badly (that was not a flame). Plus since I use Linux I have to use FFS since Linux can only access that and I don't have anymore room for an extra partition.
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 22 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by DET Nicolas (193.49.118.3) on 06-Mar-2002 11:17 GMT
Well, I don't want to fight against anyone but we have to
confess that OS4 has a least 1 year late.
Hyperion should have port its software to MorphOS instead of trying do code
an other OS (as fast as they dare !).
(It sad to see that)
Remember that OS 4 project really start after Cologne 2001 (about 5 months ago) and
that MorphOS had been start 2/3 years ago !
Bye
Please do not blame me for this post, it is just my opinion
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 23 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by Mika Hanhijärvi (195.148.82.17) on 06-Mar-2002 11:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (Anonymous):
10 years whitout invalidated disk, with FFS ?? That's impossible. have you turned you computer on atleast once ? :) Or is your harddisk connected to your Amiga ? I understand if you don't get invalidated ffs partitions if your harddisk is not connected :) Otherwise it is purely impossible.
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 24 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by redrumloa (209.86.181.12) on 06-Mar-2002 11:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (DET Nicolas):
MorphOS for the end user is not for sale yet, the last time I checked. AmigaOS 4.0 is not for sale yet either. Therefore it really doesn't matter which started first, and it certainly doesn't mean MorphOS will be better.
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 25 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by redrumloa (209.86.181.12) on 06-Mar-2002 11:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (Mika Hanhijärvi):
I've had very few invalidations, probably all from Voyager. However since I started using OS3.9 I think I've only had it happen once. Talking about that when it happened under OS3.9 I didn't have to run DiskSalv, the computer seemed to revalidate the HD itself. It just took about 8 minutes for the reboot to finish. Does OS3.9 have a basic DiskSalv as part of the OS?
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 26 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by Albatorsk (212.116.81.154) on 06-Mar-2002 11:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (redrumloa):
It's been like that since at least OS 3.1. I just used to leave the workbench screen with the annoying "Disk is unvalid - Cancel - Retry"-requester on until it went away by it self. Depending on the partition size, it could take up to 30 minutes.
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 27 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by Joe "Floid" Kanowitz (64.24.65.109) on 06-Mar-2002 11:52 GMT
With all the filesystem chatter, does anyone have any pointers to technical documentation? Thus far, the best hit I have is http://www.mega-tokyo.com/os/os-faq-fs.html#fs_ffs_amiga ; rather informative, but I'm too lazy to read it at the moment.
If I recall, PFS was/is a journaling system? In the case of FFS- while I take it it's not much related to Berkeley FFS- the general concept of "softupdates" can be widely applicable. I was hoping to dig up a link to a full whitepaper, but http://www.ece.cmu.edu/~ganger/papers/softupdates_abs.html was the closest I could get on short notice. Disclaimer: I barely understand Berkeley FFS, so this impression is formed via high-level thinking and the opinions of others. :} Chances are Hyperion are well aware of this, and I'm not sure how Amiga FFS even stores its metadata- it might be that Amiga writes are done synchronously as it is, in which case I'm way off..
Anyhow, this is really a sleep-deprived excuse to complain about the coincidence of FFS and FFS. Given that Berkeley *does* predate Amiga on this, so far as I know, can we get an official push towards "AmiFFS" or some other differentiating naming convention?
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 28 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by Mika Hanhijärvi (195.148.82.17) on 06-Mar-2002 12:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (Anonymous):
PFS3 and SFS are much more reliable and faster than current FFS. I have used about 3 years now PFS3 and before that I used PFS2. I have newer lost not a single file when using PFS.
When I still had only 540MB seagate I used FFS, and it was just too damn easy to get disk to invalid state. It was too damn normal that crash when writing to disk invalidated the whole partition. And it was annoying to wait system to validate partition. It took long time to validate eg. 400MB partition. it also happened many times that system couldn't validate partition and you had to repair disk with DiskSalv and then try to validate it again, aaarggghhhh.
If it takes long time to validate 400MB partition, you can imagine how long it would take to validate eg. 4GB partition. it would take ages. When I bought my 10GB disk I started to use PFS2 too because current FFS is too damn unreliable for use with big disks.
PFS and SFS are also MUCH faster than current FFS, FFS really crawls when comapared to those two. PFS and SFS also allow you to use big disks and long filenames easily. PFS and SFS partitions also have wery useful automatic configurable "trashcan" (.deldir directory in PFS-partitions) if you delete something by accident you can still rescue it from .deldir. .deldir reserved for files in .deldir is released automaticly when nesessry and so on. PFS also has so called rollover files which are useful as log-files. Rollover-file can't get bigger than what you set to it's maximum size. And finally PFS3 has builtin MUFS support and DirectSCSI-mode which allows you to use disks >4GB even whitout new scsi.device.
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 29 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by Mika Hanhijärvi (195.148.82.17) on 06-Mar-2002 12:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (redrumloa):
8 minutes to validate harddisk is much too long time and not acceptable, when you think that PFS3 and SFS partitions will not go to invalid state.
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 30 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by redrumloa (209.86.181.12) on 06-Mar-2002 12:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (Mika Hanhijärvi):
Well it's only happened once recently. However I have been meaning to try out SFS, I'm just lazy and that would be time consuming to switch to. I will not use PFS because $70 for a file system is insanely expensive, and I do not like to pirate Amiga software.
About FFS-2, I'm sure Hyperion will add some saftey measures in it.
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 31 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by ID4 (217.216.37.163) on 06-Mar-2002 12:22 GMT
Speaking About PFS3, Ok It´s very Good, Only a question..
Anybody know a good tool (That really works) to defrag PFS partitions????
I need it, It´s is unique fail :P.
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 32 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox (62.254.64.6) on 06-Mar-2002 12:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (James):
"Count your blessing, not everyone has been as lucky as you. There are always going to mbe exceptions. Generaly
if your Amiga crashes or reboots while writting to the disk it can invalidate the partition. If you're a developer or
someone you likes to try new/beta software this can happen a lot - browsers since they constantly cache files are a
big headache."
This is actually extremely rare under OS 3.9. There were some bug
fixes in FFS which seem to have fixed most of the problems.
And I do get plenty of crashes from testing the Voyager betas.
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 33 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by Mika Hanhijärvi (195.148.82.17) on 06-Mar-2002 12:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 27 (Joe "Floid" Kanowitz):
Yep. PFS3 has somekind of journaling system, I don't know technical issues more. They call it Atomic commit, PFS3 can go only from one valid state to another valid stae. If system crashes when you are writing to disk, you will only loose changes to that file and disk will return to state where it was before writing to disk started.
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 34 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by James (194.82.103.135) on 06-Mar-2002 12:35 GMT
In reply to Comment 31 (ID4):
There was a tool on the aminet. But all it really did was copy the files to a buffer, deleted the old ones, then rewrote the files hopefully in a contingous block. In the past I've moved all the .info's from a directory and then back again this definiately speeded up opening dirs in Workbench.
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 35 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by Mika Hanhijärvi (195.148.82.17) on 06-Mar-2002 12:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 31 (ID4):
Yep thats true. There isn't real defragmentation tool for PFS or SFS. I haven't noticed any big slowdown though so I think PFS tryes to keep fragmentation low. Ofcourse when disk gets near full every filesystem fragments more and more, you can't avoid that.
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 36 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox (62.254.64.6) on 06-Mar-2002 12:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (redrumloa):
"Does OS3.9 have a basic
DiskSalv as part of the OS? "
The disk validator has always been part of the OS, and it was moved
into the ROM for version 2.
A partition (or floppy) is invalid when it has been changed but the
bitmap was not updated (usually because the computer crashed before
the bitmap could be written). If a partition is invalid, the
Disk-Validator then goes through the whole partition, checking exactly
which sectors are in use, and makes a fresh bitmap.
Naturally this can take several minutes on a big partition, or on a
floppy.
Before OS 3.9, the validation process could fail on big partitions. It
ran out of stack, or some other resource (not sure which). This no
longer happens.
The validation process can also happen under Windows or Mac OS - if
the drive is corrupt, Scandisk or similar must be run. All these
systems use a bitmap.
While an Amiga partition is not validated, you can read from it, and
salvage files, but not write to it, because it doesn't know which
sectors are free.
You need Disksalv if, not only is the bitmap out of date, but there is
also a logical error in the directory tree. This seems to be extremely
rare under OS 3.9. It was very common under 1.3.
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 37 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by Rasillon (195.188.23.3) on 06-Mar-2002 12:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 35 (Mika Hanhijärvi):
There is a a defrag tool built in to SFS, and its VERY good, and very quick. IT works in the same way as the rest of the filesystem, in that if you interupt it, you do not lose any data :)
You have to be careful to not mix up a disk defragment tool and a disk optimiser, ReOrg was the latter type. The SFS one is the former.
regards
Rassilon
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 38 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by cOrpse (195.93.48.154) on 06-Mar-2002 13:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (DET Nicolas):
Except running on PPC morphos hasn`t done anything os 3.1 hasn`t done.it like running windows 3.11 on a 486 66mhz then putting it on a 2ghz p4 , looks the same , faster but does the same thing. I know you can use the PPC better etc etc but whats the gain of a fast cpu wen the os looks and feels like it fell from os 3.1`s arse?
You have to keep in mind how long ago os 3.1 came out , by this comparison the other os projects look quite backward , may as well just use UAE or osxl.
I for one am hoping that amiga os 4 is going to show(or be a base for) the much needed advances amiga os needs aswell as a speed boost from new hardware.
I don`t use morphos becuase it doesn`t provide anymore function then os 3.9 does , and the speed boost on my blizzard ppc 040/25 603e/240 isn`t great enough for my to bother starting to using it properly. Exactly the same reason i use windows 2000 server on my pc over 98/2000 pro , server provides the functions i need and thats what counts and if its faster thats nice too.
Btw: this isn`t a flame , just my fellings on the why bother with os 4 when mos is already around question.
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 39 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox (62.254.64.6) on 06-Mar-2002 13:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 28 (Mika Hanhijärvi):
"PFS3 and SFS are much more reliable and faster than current FFS. I have used about 3
years now PFS3 and before that I used PFS2. I have newer lost not a single file when using
PFS. "
If you have been using PFS for 3 years, then you haven't used the
current FFS.
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 40 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous (217.89.23.132) on 06-Mar-2002 13:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 38 (cOrpse):
>I know you can use the PPC better etc etc but whats the gain of a fast cpu wen
>the os looks and feels like it fell from os 3.1`s arse?
>
Just wait and you will get a new MOS-WB look. :-)
>
>I don`t use morphos becuase it doesn`t provide anymore function then os 3.9 does
>
Why do you say this? It may be true for the 1+ year old beta version, but the
actual release version will be a whole different kind of beast. What are the main
advantages of OS4.0 in your opinion?
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 41 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous (217.89.23.133) on 06-Mar-2002 13:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
>nor did anybody notice that Martin Blom was demonstrating Soundblaster Live! drivers.
>
Maybe it's because SB Live! suxx? ;-)
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 42 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous (217.89.23.131) on 06-Mar-2002 13:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
>FFS2 is just intended for backwards compatibility, future versions of OS 4.x
>will include a much more advanced (and incompatible) filesystem.
>
Better than SFS? In which regards?
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 43 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by priest (192.100.124.220) on 06-Mar-2002 14:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (DET Nicolas):
>Hyperion should have port its software to MorphOS instead of trying do code
>an other OS (as fast as they dare !).
>(It sad to see that)
>Remember that OS 4 project really start after Cologne 2001 (about 5 months
> ago) and that MorphOS had been start 2/3 years ago !
Totally fair opinnion. And this is mine:
Amiga Inc wants to have a AmigaOS that is under their control, so that they can develop it as it best suits to their needs, etc...
It would be impossible with MorphOS (because it's under RS control).
So, IMO: It's about control.
I think the good part of AOS is that it is not tied to any particular HW like MOS seems to be tied to pblan & DCE HW.
(hope some MOS supporter now tells that MOS will support wider range of PPC HW than just those)
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 44 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by priest (192.100.124.220) on 06-Mar-2002 14:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
So, in the meanwhile, is it better to built my partitions by using SFS or FFS?
Which one is the more advanced in OS4, FFS2 or SFS?
And is something like FDA (Future Drive Accelerator -disk cache) included in the OS?
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 45 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by Jim Forbes-Ritte(Agafaster) (62.189.25.19) on 06-Mar-2002 14:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 39 (Don Cox):
I use FFS, have done since AmigaOS 3.0.
there is a good way to prevent invalidated volumes - dont stop the machine during disk writes !
seriously, I only had these when Ibrowse or Voyager went tits up during a cache write.
I have to agree that the FFS that came with OS3.5 and OS3.9 is much more robust, but still fallable (it does support big disks as well - my 20GB Matrox is proof of that !)
I found a neat little util called disksafe (or somesuch) on Aminet which stays resident, and intercepts reset calls (Ie after a crash /Ctrl-A-A) and writes the current bitmap to the disk (if one is pending) before allowing the reboot to continue.
Its given me nae bother at all.
I look forward to OS4.0 and FFS2 - are we on track for release this / next month ?
optimistically,
Agafaster.
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 46 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by Björn Hagström (193.13.79.1) on 06-Mar-2002 14:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (DET Nicolas):
It didn't work out, get over it.
/Björn
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 47 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by Ole-Egil Hvitmyren (129.241.172.103) on 06-Mar-2002 14:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
IU was there. I noticed it. I drooled. Didjn't listen to Martin Blom, thoughl. hmm...
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 48 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by Jules (139.149.1.195) on 06-Mar-2002 14:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 39 (Don Cox):
In all honesty, that's totally true. While I now have OS3.9, and had OS3.5 before that, the version of FFS I used was the one that came with my A1200 (OS3.0). I switched to PFS3 prior to upgrading to OS3.5 and then 3.9. After switching to PFS3, it not only improved data stability to a very significant extent (i.e. absolutely no data loss), it also improved performance.
When I've got something that hasn't failed even once in 3 years of using it and has improved my system no end, why should I then go about repartitioning all my hard drives with a new version of a file system that originally wasted so much of my time and data, and one I certainly have zero confidence in?
Even if it is improved to an extent that the hard drive auto recovers after such a corruption without data loss, why do I want to be waiting 10 minutes at a time for my HD to become writable again after a failure, when under PFS3 I do not wait at all?
We haven't even talked about speed either, and I've had it from many people now that PFS3 is faster than FFS as of OS3.5 (got to admit, don't know about 3.9, but I'd put money on PFS3 still winning that race).
I do take your point though. Maybe FFS has improved. However, unless I get assurances that it is as fast, as data secure, and I never have to ponce around with data revalidation before being able to write to my HD, I'm not switching back unless I'm left with no choice. I would consider SFS before FFS (at least I've heard good reports of SFS).
Maybe that'd be a good project for someone out there. Anyone out there willing to test PFS, the latest FFS and SFS side by side?
Cheers
Jules
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 49 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by cOrpse (195.93.48.154) on 06-Mar-2002 14:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 40 (Anonymous):
Decent TCP/IP , decent RTG (CGX sucks bawls believe me) , Decent Filesystem ( that comes with the os ;) )etc.
Morphos is in my view trying to reinvent the wheel , where as AOS has the wheels and the rest of the car and is cleaning it up and adding a body kit :).
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 50 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by José (193.136.227.205) on 06-Mar-2002 14:52 GMT
"- 5 - Prepare the Amiga OS as a host-OS for Amiga DE"
PLEASE EXPLAIN. That's the deciding issue for me. What does this means? How will native apps, and native apps programing be affected?
Thanks, really, thought I think noone will answer.
Anonymous, there are 134 items in your selection [1 - 50] [51 - 100] [101 - 134]
Back to Top