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[Forum] OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORTANN.lu
Posted on 05-Mar-2002 23:22 GMT by 4pLaY134 comments
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Status: February 13, 2002 (Status as of February 1) Ben Hermans, LL.M managing partner Hyperion Entertainment Read on... 1.0 AMIGA OS 4.0 DESIGN GOALS

- 1 - Migrate OS 3.9 from 68K to PPC
- 2 - Untie the OS from the Amiga custom chipsets
- 3 - Introduce modern functionality
- 4 - Eliminate key performance bottle-necks
- 5 - Prepare the Amiga OS as a host-OS for Amiga DE

1.1 DEVELOPMENT UPDATE

* Exec Second Generation (Exec SG)
Exec is the kernel of the AmigaOS and is currently written in 68K assembly.
Exec will be re-written for in C and new functionality will be introduced to allow the deployment of OS 4 on any suitable PPC hardware including but not limited to the Amiga One, Blizzard PPC, Cyberstorm PPC, Shark PPC from Elbox, Pegasos from bPlan etc.
The following features are planned:
Hardware abstraction layer Virtual memory New library interface Resource tracking and management Optional memory protection WarpOS backwards compatibility
The following design documents regarding Exec SG were already written and are either finalised or being discussed:
- New library model (final draft)
- Hardware abstraction layer (first draft)
- Virtual environment (first draft)
All design documents are available as PDF files.
Both Dave Haynie and Heinz Wrobel have agreed to serve as technical consultants and the design documents for the HAL and Virtual Environment are currently being re-written to take account of the relevant feedback we collected.

Development status:

Actual coding on the higher level functionality of Exec is already under way.

Most of the “high level” functionality of Exec SG is already implemented (some 50 functions) which includes all list and tag functions and most notably the memory subsystem and parts of the new library scheme.

The memory system is for now limited to the “classic” memory system i.e. the MemHeader/MemChunk functionality. A more sophisticated system is planned and VM support will also be added down the line.

All of the implemented functions and especially the memory subsystem were successfully tested and withstood torture tests without problem.

Work is currently underway on the booting process.

The plan is to adapt a remote gdb kernel so that the whole debugging process can be cross-hosted on Linux thus making debugging substantially easier.

All in all the work is around 50% done.
* 68K emulation

The 68 emulation will be key to OS 4 with many parts of the operating system still in 68K form as well as a very large base of applications and games in 68K.
Development status of the JIT emulator:
Nearly all 68040 integer instructions are now emulated and work is about to start on FPU emulation, OS integration and further performance optimisation.

Emulated opcodes:
data transfer: "move" opcodes, moveq, lea, pea, movem, movec, clr, scc arithmetics: add, addi, adda, addx, addq, sub, subi, suba, subx, subq, neg, mulu, muls, divs, divu comparing: cmp, cmpi, cmpm, cmpa shifts: asl, lsl, rol, asr, lsr, ror, roxr, roxl flow control: bra, dbra, bsr, jmp, jsr, rts, rtr conditional branches: dbcc.x, bcc.x logic opcodes: eor, eori, not, andi, and, ori, or, btst, bset, bclr, bchg, tas miscellaneous: nop, exg, swap, tst, ext, extb, link, unlk

Adressing: all addressing modes which are supported in 68020 Flag emulation: negative, overflow, carry, zero, extended
During dynamic recomplilation a low-level flag data-flow analysis allows run-time optimalisations of recompiled code.

* PPC native TCP/IP stack & PPP drivers

Early tests already suggest that this is the fastest TCP/IP stack found on the Amiga.

Features are as follows:

- implemented as a single shared library - compatible with the Amiga standard "bsdsocket" API, as defined by the AmiTCP product - enhanced API for more control over the inner workings and configuration - built-in DHCP client - Internet Superserver (inetd) - IP filtering and networking address translation - drivers for asynchronous PPP (dial-up networking) and PPP over Ethernet

Development status:
The TCP/IP stack (“Roadshow”) and PPP drivers have been completed with the following issues outstanding:
- GUI (also required for the PPP drivers)
- SSL implementation/integration.
SSL V2 is very close to completion.

* Re-implementation of the Amiga file system (FFS2) for PPC

FFS2 is a fully backwards compatible re-implementation in C of the Fast File System. It supports media > 4 GByte, and a new variant of the file/directory name storage format which allows for long file names (up to 108 characters).
Development status:
Completed and successfully tested.
* Recovery and Salvage tools for FFS2 and SFS
Salvage, Undelete, Unformat, Repair, RDBSalv, ReOrg/Defrag, Check Integrity etc. with full support for FFS2 and SFS
Development status:

Filesystem Check, Salvage (recovery by copying to another partition), Undelete, Optimize ("ReOrg"/"Defrag"), Find Partitions and Unformat are done. The filesystem Repair function still needs some work. Localization and user documenation is not done yet.

* PPC native RTG system (Picasso 96 V3)
The RTG system allows for the use of modern graphics cards such as the Matrox and ATI cards on the Amiga.
Development status:
Permedia 2 driver: 85% completed Permedia 3 driver: 60% completed Voodoo 3 driver: 100% completed Matrox G450/G550: work in progress ATI Radeon family: work in progress

Picasso 96 V3 will subsequently be ported to PPC with the use of the new Exec SG library model for optimal performance.
An arithmetically optimised PPC native version of layers.library is planned.
* Warp3D (3D driver system)

Warp3D is a powerful yet low-level 3D API which is both available on the classic Amiga and intent/Amiga DE which allows developers to rapidly migrate 3D content between both platforms.
Development status:

Permedia 2 driver: 100% completed Permedia 3 driver: work to start upon completion of 2D drivers Voodoo 3 driver: 100% completed Matrox G450/G550: work to start upon completion of 2D drivers ATI Radeon family: work to start upon completion of 2D drivers
* OpenGL 1.3 support (Mesa 4.0)
OpenGL is a cross-platform (Mac, Linux, Windows, AmigaDE etc.) high-level 3D API originally developed by Silicon Graphics.
Support for OpenGL 1.3 will be provided by porting the open source project Mesa (which now passes all SGI compliance tests) which will sit on top of Warp3D so that graphics-card functionality not currently offered by the OpenGL API may be supported nonetheless.
Development status:
Work will start once Warp3D V5 has been completed.
* PPC native RTA system based on AHI
Developer: Martin Blom and others
A Retargetable Audio System allows the use of plug-in soundcards (PCI or Zorro II).

AHI by Martin Blom is currently the de facto standard on the Amiga and a PPC native version will be offered with support for a wide variety of soundcards including but not limited to all current Amiga soundcards and the Soundblaster 128 and Live (EMU10K1) cards.
Development status:
Martin Blom has started work on the Soundblaster Live drivers.
* PPC native Intuition and Reaction
* Reaction is the BOOPSI based GUI system for the Amiga, introduced in OS 3.5 and extended in OS 3.9.
The functionality of Reaction will be extended by providing more classes and be integrating Reaction better within the OS.
The addition of the following classes is being contemplated:
-application.class - name not finalized. This class will be a "parent" and likely unify window class and arexx class management together, ease management of multi-window applications and support easy creation of applications as commodities.
-speedhint.class - a new help display class based on the speenthint code from window.class, however this will allow for a more powerful API and future growth path.
-popwin.gadget - similar to chooser.gadget but allows a popup display containing most any other gadget as a child - most useful for a popup listview. For this gadget to function, Intuition needs to gain some new ability. The safety of making these changes and therefore including the gadget will need to be evaluated via beta testing.
- prefs.class - a new baseclass that allows for custom plug-in preferences modules for any of the ReAction classes. Subclasses need to be written for the existing ReAction classes and supported in ReActionPrefs.
The following functionality will also be implemented:
Drag and Drop support.
New “ghosted” look
* Intuition will sport the following new features:
New DrawInfo pens, Enhanced window borders Resolution-adaptive system gadgets User-selectable styles for system glyphs and 3D frames with support for external plug-ins Configurable look for proportional gadgets New-style (3D recessed) “disabled” look for gadgets where applicable Gad-Tools enhancements (pop-up capability for cycle gadgets etc.) Full-user control of Workbench palette
Development status:
Work is expected to be completed in time for release of OS 4.0 with more work already planned for subsequent updates of the OS 4.0.
* SCSI drivers for onboard (UW) SCSI controllers
The current SCSI drivers for the onboard SCSI controllers of the Cyberstorm PPC and the BlizzardPPC are written in 68K code which cannot be emulated due to the usage of MMU instructions and the different MMU pagesizes of the 68K and PPC line of CPU’s.
It is therefore necessary to replace these drivers.
Support for other SCRIPTS based PCI-based SCSI controllers is planned to allow an easy migration of SCSI hardware to non-SCSI systems such as the AmigaOne.
Development status:
The SCSI driver framework is completed with work in progress on implementing the actual driver for the Cyberstorm PPC onboard SCSI controller.
Good progress is being made and the driver is expected to be finished in time.
* WarpInput API
WarpInput is an API for multimedia controller devices (akin to DirectInput on Windows) which allows a programmer to provide support through one API for a wide variety of input-devices such as keyboard, mouse, joysticks(analog and digital), track-ball, Playstation controller etc.
The design document is in its second draft and implementation has started.
Development status:
Work is underway to re-implement lowlevel.library in C.
* Minimal USB stack
A minimal USB stack would allow for the use of USB based keyboards and mice which would effectively aid in untying the OS from the custom chipsets.
Development status:
Design documents are drafted and implementation work is underway.
* PPC native datatypes
PPC native datatypes for common formats such TIFF, JPEG, PNG and BMP.
Development status:
Completed but still need to be recompiled for OS 4.
* New HDToolbox
HDToolbox is a utiliy which allow for the formatting and partitioning of storage devices.
The new incarnation of HDToolbox will offer substantially more functionality than the current version.
Development status:
- Lowlevel part ('the Engine'):
Some 80% of the written code was tested with a total of about 85% written. Succesfully tested code includes: removing/adding partition and filesystem, moving and sizing partition, saving RDB back to disk or to a file. The automatic error reporting and correction of RDB structures is still missing. This is the last remaining major item which remains to be implemented in the Engine.
- Highlevel part (GUI):
The partitioning window is 100% complete owing to a new gadget designed by Massimo Tantignone. So is the filesystem selection window barring the gadgets related to the correction/error reporting of RDB values. Two windows remain to be fully managed: the Installation window (already working but incomplete) and the lowlevel SCSI utilities window which is fully designed but not yet working. Also missing is a complete test of the GUI layout functionalities: the GUI will try to open a custom screen if the current screen is not big enough but this is not tested yet.
Still to do: support for localization and user documentation.
Overall the development status is estimated to be 85% completed.
* Support for TrueType/OpenType fonts
Currently the AmigaOS does not support TrueType fonts which is a serious deficiency.
A new font-engine as well as a reworked version of the bullet API, bullet.library, diskfont.library is called for.
Development status:
Work on the initial version for OS 4 is around 95% completed.
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 101 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by Quantum-3 on 07-Mar-2002 13:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 99 (Ian):
Quite right.. Real world tests are the best way to judge the speed of a machine and I can tell you that Amithlon on my xp1800 blew me out of the water.
Windows snap open, a warm reboot which takes around 50 secs on my 060 A1200 is reduced to just 5 seconds and they are both Dopus Workbenches with a ton of stuff starting.
Amiga Quake becomes very enjoyable at 48 fps in 640x480. Freespace (I've only played the demo) is improved 10 fold. It's hopeless to play on my 060 with Warp 3D & Voodoo but fantastic on the Amithlon XP even though it's only the software renderer. Same for Payback.
Rendering under Lightwave, what would take 20 mins to render on a 25mhz 040 A4000 takes a minute or two under Amithlon.
Plus you have stacks of cheap ram. I bought a 64 meg sim recently for my Blizzard and it cost me $299.00 Aust. A 256 meg DDR dimm cost only $155.00.
Find someone who has a fast AMD machine with Amithlon and see for youselves.
Cheers :-)
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 102 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by Martin Blom on 07-Mar-2002 13:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 77 (Anonymous):
*laugh* Do you really want to know that ...?
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 103 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 07-Mar-2002 13:59 GMT
SysSpeed, the test app: http://www.aliendesign-gbr.de/programs/sysspeed/
Someone should make a comprehensive Amiga (compatibles) benchmark web site...
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 104 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Hoggett on 07-Mar-2002 14:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 103 (priest):
If they do, they want to stay away from the likes of SysInfo, AIBB or SysSpeed. These were designed to test Amiga hardware, and cannot cope accurately with performance they were never intended to deal with.
If you want comprehensive and meaningful results, use a series of real-world applications carrying out normal tasks, and compare the results. Synthetic benchmark tests tend to give bogus results.
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 105 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by JACK - Czech Republic on 07-Mar-2002 16:37 GMT
Hello everybody. It looks great! Some new benchmark is also needed. And what about program language? Will be new StormC? People need it.
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 106 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by Kronos on 07-Mar-2002 16:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 105 (JACK - Czech Republic):
A modified gcc will be used for OS4.
Due to different object/linker-format this won't serve as
a grop-in replacement for the gcc used in StormC4.
This has been said by Thomas Frieden on the AOS4-email-list.
But as both versions are under the GPL it should be possible
for H&P (or somebody else) to produce a AOS4-compatible
version of SrormC4.
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 107 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by HammerD on 07-Mar-2002 17:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 90 (anonymous):
I can tell you I have done tests in IBrowse where I have loaded a webpage with
hundreds of thumbnail images.
It brought my A4000/060 at 66MHz with Cybervision PPC and 64 megs of RAM
to its Knees.
My Amithlon system handled it quite easily.
IDE hard disk performance is also benefitting from the modern IDE support, where you can get 20MB/sec transfer rate. Much higher than the crap IDE controller in the A4000.
Generally anything cpu intensive (including rendering, graphics) is far faster
on Amithlon (which an appropriately fast x86 cpu).
HammerD
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 108 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by darklite on 07-Mar-2002 19:18 GMT
It shouldn't be too hard to make a list of benchmarks that can be executed on the various systems. Some ideas:
- povray
- lame (mp3 encoder)
- lha/lzx
- mpeg4 enc... doh
- some memory copy tests
- search in a large text file
- ...
preferably use freely available software (povray instead of cinema4d for example)...
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 109 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 07-Mar-2002 19:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 107 (HammerD):
The fact that you have a Cyberstorm PPC is hardly relevant when you are running a 68K program.
Besides, comparing a 6 year old CPU with a state of the art CPU and then saying the 6 year old CPU "was brought to its knees" is hardly a surprise.
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 110 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by HammerD on 07-Mar-2002 19:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 109 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
Sure, but we are talking about Emulation. Even *emulating* a 68040 a fast x86
cpu will crush the fastest available 680x0 processor. Its just sheer brute
force.
HammerD
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 111 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 07-Mar-2002 20:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 108 (darklite):
These are just CPU/fpu benchmarks.
We should also have intuition benchmarks to test the responsiveness, application launching time and copy file tests to test the HD / filesystem, RAM throughput for application relying on RAM, 3d bench for 3d games, 2D fps for gfx system etc ...
The combination of all of these can give you an idea of the system speed / ability to perform.
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 112 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 07-Mar-2002 20:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 110 (HammerD):
Like a fast PPC emulating 68k code can also toast a real 68k.
We will see how well perform OS4 68k emul vs Amithlon vs morphos.
I was impressed by Morphos not finished JIT benchmarks performing on a 200Mhz PPC without cache.
Of course numbers are just numbers and we will see what come with the commercial version of all products.
Anyway all the new software will be mostly PPC.
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 113 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by darklite on 07-Mar-2002 20:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 112 (Christophe Decanini):
>Anyway all the new software will be mostly PPC.
You mean all 3 of'm, damn. I better rush out and buy myself an overpriced A1 + OS4... oh wait, they won't be released for another 2 years.
(note: this was sarcasm, if you hadn't noticed, except for the '2 years' of course ;)
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 114 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 07-Mar-2002 22:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 107 (HammerD):
>IDE hard disk performance is also benefitting from the modern IDE support,
>where you can get 20MB/sec transfer rate. Much higher than the crap IDE
>controller in the A4000.
>
Excuse me...don't you have some nice 40MB/s UW-SCSI controller?
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 115 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 07-Mar-2002 22:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 81 (HammerD):
>On my AMD Athlon 1266MHz with PC-133 memory SysSpeed (under OS 3.9/Amithlon) reports:
>68040 at 1578 MHz
>
Meaningless SysInfo number, it reports my 060 as some xxx MHz 040.
>
>In comparison a 060/66Mhz gets:
>MIPS : 66
>MFLOPS: 26.50
>
Wrong, this is for 060/50MHz
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 116 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by HammerD on 07-Mar-2002 23:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 115 (Anonymous):
Well *I* didn't make that sysspeed module. I downloaded it from Aminet. But it
*DID* say 68060/66. Talk to the author of that module.
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 117 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by HammerD on 07-Mar-2002 23:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 114 (Anonymous):
Sure, but I don't have a nice scsi hard disk drive. The cabling and the drives
are very expensive. At least here in Canada... I've already made the decision
I won't spend any more money on classic Amiga hardware. My A4000 (which is closing in on 10 years old) may break down at any time.
I'm more interested in investing on new hardware (eg. X86, AmigaOne, or bplan).
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 118 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 08-Mar-2002 02:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 113 (darklite):
Dear Brecht,
I'am already running Morphos and enjoying it :)
See you in a next post were you will whine about some software not available for Amithlon ...
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 119 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 08-Mar-2002 02:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 117 (HammerD):
Hammer,
There is a cheap solution:
Buy a UW to UDMA bridge.
Buy a cheap UWSCSI cable on ebay.
Use a cheap UDMA drive.
All this equipment can be used in a future computer.
With a 10 Gb fireball drive I have almost 30 Mb/s in syspeed.
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 120 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 08-Mar-2002 07:09 GMT
Still about the ultimate benchmark suite, I would really like to see the possibility to run all those applications (that are being used for testing) in parallel, so that we would see how it works with JIT and superb long pipelines in P4, etc... and how the performance drops.
(I think today the multitasking degrades your overall system performance more than in late 80's...)
And one more test module: CD burning in test mode, also in parallel with other stuff...
(my w98 locks up for 15 seconds when the drive is finalizing the CD, 800Mhz down the toilet & single tasking...)
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 121 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by Solar on 08-Mar-2002 07:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 109 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
@ Ben Hermans:
> Besides, comparing a 6 year old CPU with a state of the art CPU and then
> saying the 6 year old CPU "was brought to its knees" is hardly a surprise.
But that's the whole *point* about it, isn't it? All the "Classic" has *is* a 6 year old CPU...
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 122 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by Quantum-3 on 08-Mar-2002 07:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 115 (Anonymous):
Hey mate,
Just for your own info, SysInfo and SysSpeed are two different programs.
I don't even think SysInfo runs on an Amithlon machine due to the "no chipset support". I know it doesn't run sucessfully on my Voodoo equiped A1200.
SysSpeed isn't too bad and includes high level tests using real world programs to do tests if you so desire.
Cheers :-)
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 123 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by redrumloa on 08-Mar-2002 11:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 121 (Solar):
With any luck in a few months we won't be tied to a 6 year old CPU. 600Mhz G3 is a nice start. Maybe 1+Ghz G4 by the end of the year?
God I hate Intel, BTW does the Pentium4 still have that enbedded SN thingy so they and big brother can watch you?
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 124 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Hoggett on 08-Mar-2002 11:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 123 (redrumloa):
> Maybe 1+Ghz G4 by the end of the year?
Don't hold your breath. That will depend on whether there is any surplus left after Apple have taken what they need. I don't expect 1GHz+ to be available to non-Apple systems until some time next year.
> God I hate Intel, BTW does the Pentium4 still have that
> enbedded SN thingy so they and big brother can watch you?
Possibly, but that also needs an OS which supports it. Guess which ones don't?
Besides, not all x86 systems have gone for long pipelines. Intel have done it so they can ramp up the GHz rating, but AMD have gone for lower clock speed and higher performance.
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 125 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 08-Mar-2002 13:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 124 (Bill Hoggett):
>> Maybe 1+Ghz G4 by the end of the year?
>Don't hold your breath. That will depend on whether there is any surplus left after Apple have taken what they need.
>I don't expect 1GHz+ to be available to non-Apple systems until some time next year.
Whoah, guys. We should be satisfied a bit less, how about "just" around 1Ghz.
There are several G4 models being produced. I think there are some around 1Ghz G4 models (which have not backside bus for L3 cache) that no one is currently using (a lot). I think it would be "sufficient" as a mid range CPU for "A1.1" ;-) around the end of this year (sure, temporarily it would act as a super high end model for us). Around summer time there should be powerMac's that use DDR RAM and faster than 1Ghz G4 CPUs, so again slower G4's should be available more easily.
Low end G3@600 soldered (Q2/2002), mid range G4@~1000 soldered (Q4/2002). (imaginary releasedates)
(I think it is not reasonable to hope for custom Amiga PPC system that would use the superb expensive L3 cache technology. And, really, we would not have any use for that either.
It is better to wait for MAI's next northbridge that has support for DDR main RAM and implement the true high-end model around that chip, perhaps with 1.5 Ghz G4 or 2Ghz G5 in late 2003 or so....
But lets check those "low end" pegasos and A1 models first.)
(btw. Totalimpact seems to have discontinued their quadG3/G4 PCI cards, what happened? No one bought them?)
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 126 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 08-Mar-2002 15:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 120 (priest):
>And one more test module: CD burning in test mode, also in parallel with other >stuff...
I'am always doing something else while CD burning on my Amiga: and I never use the test mode.
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 127 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 08-Mar-2002 15:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 125 (priest):
"(btw. Totalimpact seems to have discontinued their quadG3/G4 PCI cards, what happened? No one bought them?)"
I think they found a juicy market with their briQ.
I have a 6* 5 1/4 case ;)
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 128 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 08-Mar-2002 22:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 125 (priest):
>There are several G4 models being produced. I think there are some around 1Ghz
>G4 models (which have not backside bus for L3 cache) that no one is currently
>using (a lot).
>
There are several unused clockspeeds of G4 which are not used in Apple computers.
Still, the ones without L3 cache possibility are "just" specified at max. 800MHz.
How about the new 1.1GHz G4? :-)
>
>Low end G3@600 soldered (Q2/2002), mid range G4@~1000 soldered (Q4/2002).
>
You mean soldered is any good? Are there many PC with soldered CPUs?
>
>(I think it is not reasonable to hope for custom Amiga PPC system that would use
>the superb expensive L3 cache technology.
>
How expensive are 2MB Ram chips?
NVidia/ATI gfxcards have faster DDR Ram than Apple uses - and that is 128MB.
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 129 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by victor # on 08-Mar-2002 22:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 125 (priest):
> (I think it is not reasonable to hope for custom Amiga PPC system that would
> use the superb expensive L3 cache technology. And, really, we would not have
> any use for that either.
Ehm, why not?
It's uncertain when will MAI bring to market the more advanced bridges. Perhaps we will get G4+'s with the L3 cache sooner.
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 130 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by Eagle on 09-Mar-2002 10:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 31 (ID4):
I used PFS for a while. I quit using it when I had a partition go bad and there was no way to fix it. At least w/ FFS you could fix it. Eight minutes to fix a partition seems like a long time, but it's not a big deal to me most of the time. Also, at 600Mhz it would go 15 times faster than with a 40Mhz 040, give or take a bit. 15 times faster than 8 minutes is about 30 seconds.
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 131 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by anonymous on 09-Mar-2002 11:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 130 (Eagle):
15 times faster? Not really, most of the time is spent on waiting
for disk I/O anyway. But then again, if the new system has decent
PIO modes (DMA) for ide, it should be a bit faster anyway.
Just a side note: I've been using PFS almost from the start (it
was called PFS first, then AFS and then PFS(2/3) again). I've
*never* lost a file due to filesystem error, and I've probably
juggled hundreds of gigabytes with it. YMMV.
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 132 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by Peter Hutchison on 09-Mar-2002 12:35 GMT
If using FFS2 then they auto to include auto-repair functionality to auto-check/repair filesystem next time it boots up like Solaris/Linux and NT/2000 does w/o resorting to 3rd party repair programs at present. Also, speeding up the Filesystem code will reduce the time for repair as well....
No mention of printer drivers, my 24 bit Epson drivers are available for free!
Could do with new Canon drivers and some other manufacturer printers as well (except Windows-only types such as Lexmark urgh!)
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 133 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 11-Mar-2002 08:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 128 (Anonymous):
>>There are several G4 models being produced. I think there are some around 1Ghz
>>G4 models (which have not backside bus for L3 cache) that no one is currently
>using (a lot).
>There are several unused clockspeeds of G4 which are not used in Apple computers.
>Still, the ones without L3 cache possibility are "just" specified at max. 800MHz.
I read from some Motorola PDF that also the model without L3 clocks to 1Ghz.
(and consumes a few watts less & overclocks more easily...)
>>Low end G3@600 soldered (Q2/2002), mid range G4@~1000 soldered (Q4/2002).
>You mean soldered is any good? Are there many PC with soldered CPUs?
You can not compare A1 MB to x86 MB.
There is huge x86 market with a lot of variety and very rapid CPU performance inflation.
The cost of sockets is smaller and in many cases it is preferrable to let some other company build the actual boxes per need.
AND 99% of people rather buy new motherboard/machine than upgrade CPU.
IMO: It is imortant to keep the cost down. It is not very reasonable to put superb fast chips on 133Mhz bus, etc...
In future if our BUYING Amiga community reaches 500 000 mark, then, perhaps we might afford to have CPU slot...
(I would choose a model with CPU slot, if it was available and not too pricey, but I try to be realistic...)
>>(I think it is not reasonable to hope for custom Amiga PPC system that would use
>>the superb expensive L3 cache technology.
>How expensive are 2MB Ram chips?
Not pricey, but you need more than those chips before you can use them. I would not buy $600 CPU card for my $600 computer, not untill I really can take full advantage of it.
OS 4.0 DEVELOPMENT PROGRESS REPORT : Comment 134 of 134ANN.lu
Posted by John Klumpp on 14-Mar-2002 00:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 132 (Peter Hutchison):
AMEN to that!!!
I think that the issue of PROPER Printer Drivers is one of the most pressing;
I had to do a lot of messing around to get some decent B&W Graphic print-outs
recently on a HP840C.....
Colour reducing - finally, using a TurboPrint Demo + Multiview!
(and before you slag off me for using such a demo - OS3.5 DOESN'T support this
printer, and I have StudioII which doesn't either!)
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