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[News] Microsoft and Gateway AmigaANN.lu
Posted on 22-Mar-2002 11:21 GMT by Christian Kemp44 comments
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"anon" wrote: "A Blomberg report of the microsoft action appears in the new york times. An ex Gateway employee alleges that In 1999 and 2000, Microsoft reduced discounts Gateway received for the Windows operating system when Gateway developed an Internet-connection device and a network computer powered by the rival Linux system. "Our decision to choose Linux over Windows was often cited by Microsoft executives when explaining why they considered Gateway to be a `bad partner,' " " [ I'm not sure if this is in any relation with the Amiga plans Gateway had, and I'll guess we'll never know for sure. However, there might be some truth to these rumours. - CK ]
Microsoft and Gateway Amiga : Comment 1 of 44ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 22-Mar-2002 10:22 GMT
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/03/22/technology/22SOFT.html?pagewanted=print&position=top
Microsoft and Gateway Amiga : Comment 2 of 44ANN.lu
Posted by tinman on 22-Mar-2002 10:36 GMT
You need an NYTimes login to get to the article, but it sounds like
what M$ are alleged to do on a widespread basis. In fact, isn't this
being investigated in yet another court case?
Microsoft and Gateway Amiga : Comment 3 of 44ANN.lu
Posted by Seehund on 22-Mar-2002 10:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (tinman):
U: slashdot2004
P: slashdot2004
Microsoft and Gateway Amiga : Comment 4 of 44ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 22-Mar-2002 11:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (Seehund):
"Couldn't find your Subscriber ID or Password. Please re-enter them." :-(
Microsoft and Gateway Amiga : Comment 5 of 44ANN.lu
Posted by David Scheibler on 22-Mar-2002 11:23 GMT
I think after the MS deal Amiga is a "good partner". Or wait. Amiga does support non-MS OS...
Microsoft and Gateway Amiga : Comment 6 of 44ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Hoggett on 22-Mar-2002 11:31 GMT
I don't like Microsoft much myself, but do we need to regurgitate every negative news titbit to be found on the Net over here on ANN?
Christophe, here's a chance to do your job. Nice and easy one this time, you don't even have to be controversial.
Microsoft and Gateway Amiga : Comment 7 of 44ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Yoris on 22-Mar-2002 11:37 GMT
And Amiga Inc. are partner with these guys...
My God...
Microsoft and Gateway Amiga : Comment 8 of 44ANN.lu
Posted by José on 22-Mar-2002 11:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Bill Hoggett):
Come on, Microsoft owns the computer market, Amiga is a computer right?:)
Microsoft and Gateway Amiga : Comment 9 of 44ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 22-Mar-2002 11:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Bill Hoggett):
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/03/22/technology/22SOFT.html?ex=1017464400&en=a9ab9db260b0d807&ei=5006&partner=ALTAVISTA
May be password free.
Oh yeah waiting for someone to say that.
So the circumstances surrounding the closure of Amiga are irrelevant.
If you were in the community at that time, you would know that Gateway planned to bring out the Walker, a machine running Amiga based on QNX based on Linux.
Many here would have been waiting with money saved for that machine, and the circumstances surrounding it are of great interest.
Did not think that would need pointing out to anyone, it is a flea brain leap to make the connection.
Microsoft and Gateway Amiga : Comment 10 of 44ANN.lu
Posted by Priest on 22-Mar-2002 11:52 GMT
So the truth behind "Amiga" curse seems more like Microsoft or Linux curse... ;)
Microsoft and Gateway Amiga : Comment 11 of 44ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 22-Mar-2002 11:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (Ben Yoris):
remember who owns Amiga patents...
Microsoft and Gateway Amiga : Comment 12 of 44ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 22-Mar-2002 11:56 GMT
Sorry but I consider this story very relevant to the Amiga.
Basically it was because MS was displeased by the Linux based Amiga branded devices of Gateway that they hiked up the license fees of Gateway which in turn prompted Gateway to drop Amiga in a hurry.
If that's not relevant, then what is?
Microsoft and Gateway Amiga : Comment 13 of 44ANN.lu
Posted by Christian Kemp on 22-Mar-2002 12:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Bill Hoggett):
Christophe deleted the news item, I restored it.
This is one of the controversial news items were you can't please everyone at the same time.
Microsoft and Gateway Amiga : Comment 14 of 44ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Yoris on 22-Mar-2002 13:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
Exactly, I can't help thinking McEwen dealt with the Devil in person.
That must be my paranoia of course.
Microsoft and Gateway Amiga : Comment 15 of 44ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 22-Mar-2002 13:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Bill Hoggett):
Oh right. Christophe "doing his job" equates to doing what you
think he should do.
Arrogant twat.
Microsoft and Gateway Amiga : Comment 16 of 44ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 22-Mar-2002 13:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
Around the time of the closure of Amiga, Gateway were given a very large order to produce set top boxes by Microsoft.
Other coverage of this testimony describes Microsoft as using a "rewards and punishment" approach (as regards middleware)
http://www.vnunet.com/News/1130342
Microsoft and Gateway Amiga : Comment 17 of 44ANN.lu
Posted by ikez on 22-Mar-2002 14:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (Anonymous):
Don't feel obligated continuing reading these site if you don't like CK. This is site and he's not a coward like you (anonymous).
Ikez
Microsoft and Gateway Amiga : Comment 18 of 44ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Hoggett on 22-Mar-2002 14:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (ikez):
His comment was not about CK, it was about me.
I have to say I prefer being an "arrogant twat" to an "anonymous coward" though. :)
Microsoft and Gateway Amiga : Comment 19 of 44ANN.lu
Posted by redrumloa on 22-Mar-2002 14:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (Anonymous):
Anonymous coward.
Microsoft and Gateway Amiga : Comment 20 of 44ANN.lu
Posted by redrumloa on 22-Mar-2002 14:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (Bill Hoggett):
I missed that too, still he's an anonymous coward. However I do not see your point in why this is not Amiga news. Gateway owned Amiga then and had plans to introduce new Amiga based product with a linux kernal. This apaprently is what pissed of M$. I never knew there was a M$ connection to Gateway abandoning the Amiga, so this is news to me!!
Microsoft and Gateway Amiga : Comment 21 of 44ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 22-Mar-2002 14:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Bill Hoggett):
Do we need to post every negative bit of news we find on MS? I think that in light of what has happened to the Amiga and how MS managed to put most of its competition under I'd say yes. Not that this post is any surprise, MS has been doing buisiness like this from the start.
-Floyd
Microsoft and Gateway Amiga : Comment 22 of 44ANN.lu
Posted by Dr. Righteous on 22-Mar-2002 14:58 GMT
Well, at least Amiga won't get it's M$ licensing fees hiked up... *cheesey grin*
Microsoft and Gateway Amiga : Comment 23 of 44ANN.lu
Posted by redrumloa on 22-Mar-2002 15:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (Dr. Righteous):
Yeah because the AmigaOne isn't made by Amiga Inc, AND the A1 isnt capable of running Wintendo. Yipeee!
Microsoft and Gateway Amiga : Comment 24 of 44ANN.lu
Posted by tmueller on 22-Mar-2002 15:53 GMT
The one (and only [and valid]) reason for M*******t
to partner with Amiga inc. is Tao Group from Reading,
England.
Microsoft and Gateway Amiga : Comment 25 of 44ANN.lu
Posted by José on 22-Mar-2002 16:15 GMT
The bastards. Anyway, Amiga cannot be hijacked that easily by Microsoft now, since it's Microsot that's using Amiga content, not the other way around. I don't have great knowledge to have a good opinion, but I still think this is a move from Microsoft to embrace the open platform.
Microsoft and Gateway Amiga : Comment 26 of 44ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Hoggett on 22-Mar-2002 16:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (José):
Open?!?
Microsoft and Gateway Amiga : Comment 27 of 44ANN.lu
Posted by Him that Doesnt - THE_Editor on 22-Mar-2002 17:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (José):
I would hazard a guess that Bill G knows the days of M$ blatently controlling the market are numbered, and as such, (thinking cap on .. conspiratory mode set to high) is embracing AmigaInc as a "back door" way of staying in control.. kind of ...Use Amiga o/s but we'll "let" you use our progs kind of cheapy ..for a royalty!!
Yeah ..Im probably talking hogwash .. But Bill G AINT blind, And, lets face it .. "IT" is a good businessman ..
Remember .. What better way of supporting a lie than to tell some truth!!
Microsoft and Gateway Amiga : Comment 28 of 44ANN.lu
Posted by John Block on 22-Mar-2002 17:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 27 (Him that Doesnt - THE_Editor):
Beyond AmigaDE runs on .net and someone at microsoft thinks AmigaDE is a good demo of what can be achieved on .net, we have no evidence whatsoever of a partnership with microsoft
Microsoft and Gateway Amiga : Comment 29 of 44ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 22-Mar-2002 18:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (Christian Kemp):
I deleted it because I think it has nothing to do with Amiga.
Christian is the boss here and I have no problem with the decision to put it back online.
I really think we need a misc category to avoid having to delete such posts.
Now the question is what post should we move to this category.
The other way is to have only moderated news by default. But it is more work for moderators that have to constantly check ann for new posts.
Microsoft and Gateway Amiga : Comment 30 of 44ANN.lu
Posted by John Block on 22-Mar-2002 18:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (Christophe Decanini):
"An Internet-connection device and a network computer powered by the rival Linux system"
Sounds like the AOL device many believe was created from the Amiga work, and the Walker device which was
the "new Amiga in a few months" of it's day.
Maybe you had to be at the Amiga show in kensington town hall, and looked at
the Walker casing and attended the speeches and presentation to appreciate the
acute relevance.
Many are wondering how come it seemed all go on Amiga and then suddenly it was dropped.
Microsoft and Gateway Amiga : Comment 31 of 44ANN.lu
Posted by Joe "Floid" Kanowitz on 22-Mar-2002 19:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 30 (John Block):
Well, it's most likely that the AOL partnership is what moved MS to put the pressure on- that's Mortal Enemy territory for MS now, and it's hard to say how the Gatemiga division worked into it. Given Gateway's recent fiscal trouble, they probably didn't need too much excuse to chop Amiga Inc. even if nobody had seen it as a threat; it was R&D, and R&D is often what hits the fan first in poorly-managed companies.
For those crowing about the Walker, Gatemiga wasn't involved there- they were supposed to have been working on the MCC, a sort of set-top/iMac hybrid based around a Transmeta chip (most likely for low cost and power consumption*) and QNX/Linux. The Walker was Escom's baby, and was to be a classic 680x0 Amiga, sort of an extended A1200.
While I would take QNX as a path forwards (and I think there are still some guys working on that front ;)), it's fair to say that this incarnation of AInc. has proposed a more "Amiga-like" system than Gateway's. Even if you're a DE hater, you have to admit that VP carries on the assembler-hacking tradition of the demoscene, and we're getting PowerPC and OS4.x besides. It's funny to watch the x86 price comparisons, considering the same people? were whining in favor of 680x0/Coldfire when Gateway held the property... :) [Of course, nobody could imagine a higher curve of Moore's Law hitting and taking us past 1GHz to 2-3GHz in the time it took to get from 300MHz to 600MHz, either..]
Microsoft and Gateway Amiga : Comment 32 of 44ANN.lu
Posted by Kent Seaton on 22-Mar-2002 20:25 GMT
Personally, this article has nothing to do with the Amiga rather the AOL/Gateway WebPad. One of the major reasons Amiga was liquidated was due only to Weitzen ("The Bean Counter" - role present in all of Amiga's history somehow) trying to trim the fat and surrounding the company with patents ready to strike any other company who leveraged similar technologies. Weitzen did this as an executive with 2 previous companies earning quite a big buck and pulling said companies out of the red and into the black (similar tactics found in the Enron corp as well as other small companies looking to make big quick). Waitt came back into the picture when he saw Weitzen would not work out for the long run and yet they are still falling on their face left and right. I was there at the inception of the Amiga purchase and through to the end into the first parts of 2001 after the purchase of Amiga was settled. While I can't say I know all of what happened, I do know quite a bit of what went on inside.
The AOL/Gateway semi-merger has been cited on the disposition prior to the Kollar-Kotelly case in the court who found MS to practice Monopolistic tactics, also found in the dispostion was specific mention of the AOL/Gateway WebPad. The documents from what I've seen are public information and not one mentions the word Amiga in them anywhere contrary to the popular belief. The reason why Gateway leveraged a partnership with AOL was to try and achieve what Amiga could become (similar to the DE, but not quite) quicker and at less cost to them. Along with Weitzen triming the fat on Amiga, they also shut down the Over-The-Moon-Production studio who was known for producing the 31" Destination computer system.
This concludes the section of the X-Files on Amiga... The truth is out there... but not past the 3rd season when X-Files started to suck.
Microsoft and Gateway Amiga : Comment 33 of 44ANN.lu
Posted by John Block on 22-Mar-2002 22:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 32 (Kent Seaton):
So this was a double personal blow to Jim Collas as he was also involved with Destination.
Microsoft and Gateway Amiga : Comment 34 of 44ANN.lu
Posted by the man in the shadows on 22-Mar-2002 22:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 33 (John Block):
Not hardly, Jim Collas had nothing to do with the Destination other than the Enigma motherboards used in the original prototypes and first run systems, all of the clones made by Gateway at the time of Destinations inception were using the Enigma, Tabor, or Lawman motherboards. The one that it was a real blow to was Jeff Schindler. Jeff was the one who "invented" the RF controlled mouse and keyboard that you find on the Destination systems, look up Jeff Schindler at the patents office and you will find Over-The-Moon-Productions citing the 31" Destination as the base element. Along with the Destination, Jeff helped build the original Solo laptop with Quantum.
The real blow below the belt to Jim Collas still remains unknown to all but his closest friends. 8^)
Microsoft and Gateway Amiga : Comment 35 of 44ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 23-Mar-2002 00:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 34 (the man in the shadows):
"The real blow below the belt to Jim Collas still remains unknown to all but his closest friends. 8^)"
Such as Waitt?
Microsoft and Gateway Amiga : Comment 36 of 44ANN.lu
Posted by Him that Does on 23-Mar-2002 07:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 35 (Anonymous):
And I would dearly LOVE to know what happened.
He ( Jim Collas) seemed really keen on the Amiga vision.
Someone must've stabbed him in the back BIG TIME !!
Microsoft and Gateway Amiga : Comment 37 of 44ANN.lu
Posted by Kent Seaton on 23-Mar-2002 08:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 36 (Him that Does):
> And I would dearly LOVE to know what happened.
> He ( Jim Collas) seemed really keen on the Amiga vision.
> Someone must've stabbed him in the back BIG TIME !!
Put yourself in his shoes for a second. You are at the top, getting ready to launch in about 6 months. What on earth could possibly make you want to step down, sell everything, and leave the market entirely to move on to a consulting firm? Couldn't be a funding issue, couldn't be a strongarm issue (Gateway board was actually listening to Collas, unlike Schindler), he was actively trying to grasp the Amiga vision while standing just to the side of the community. There are only two things in my mind that it could have been, 1: a personal goal not met, but he didn't get to where he was by quitting on the short end of the stick, 2: blackmail, but who and what, his slate was completely clean. After Jim left, I talked long hours with his replacement (Mike) who said his resignation was even a surprise to him about 10-15 hours prior to the public announcement (we were flooded with email questions, over 2000 in the first 8 hours about Amiga alone). Mike wasn't even a good cleanup man, they had to bring in another person to replace Mike which was why many people didn't know who was running the show after JC's quick departure. There are some people who know the exact reason why JC left when he did, regardless of the reason it was a shock to all (even the media). All I know is that JC will never work with Amiga again, or for that matter computer retail firms.
Mind you, I never worked for Amiga or was ever a part of the Gateway/Amiga clan, but I had a damn good ear to the grindstone handling all email inbound to webmaster@gateway.com, even had Darreck's personal home phone number and cell, same will BillMs. I'm just glad Bill found the funds to purhcase Amiga, they are definately back for the future now...
Microsoft and Gateway Amiga : Comment 38 of 44ANN.lu
Posted by Gareth Knight on 23-Mar-2002 09:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 37 (Kent Seaton):
If anyone is interested, Jim Collas went on to found IdeaEDGE.
<A HREF="http://www.ideaedge.com/website/team/collas.htm">Go here</A>
Microsoft and Gateway Amiga : Comment 39 of 44ANN.lu
Posted by Him that does on 23-Mar-2002 10:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 37 (Kent Seaton):
I agree with you entirely.
It must've been something BIG/BAD .. Jim shared the "Vision", Who would walk away when its about to be realised? I wouldnt!!
Visits from M.I.Bs ?? (that were NOT FBI) :)
I wonder if it will all come to light one day?
Do you think Jim still keeps an eye on events?
If your reading, Jim ...
"WAY TO GO"
Microsoft and Gateway Amiga : Comment 40 of 44ANN.lu
Posted by 3seas on 23-Mar-2002 14:55 GMT
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/03/23/1422243&mode=thread&tid=130
Why would MS look down on Gateway?
It's all a matter of who is in control!
Who's in cointrol between MS and Amiga?
Microsoft and Gateway Amiga : Comment 41 of 44ANN.lu
Posted by redrumloa on 23-Mar-2002 15:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 37 (Kent Seaton):
You were webmaster@gateway.com ?!?!? I sent you an email waaaay back when! You told me you were overwhelmed by emails from angry Amigans, and you were going to bring it to Gateway's attention. What was their reaction? Did they tell you "Oh well, go piss off"?
Microsoft and Gateway Amiga : Comment 42 of 44ANN.lu
Posted by Kent Seaton on 23-Mar-2002 17:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 41 (redrumloa):
It was a very interesting response, unfortunately if I make any mention of the dealings of Amiga and the email sent or received it will break my two year NDA since it would be releasing political strategies Gateway is still following today. I remember a great majority of the email received regarding Amiga, things like that just stick in your mind for a while. Some of the email had to be deleted from the profanity alone and the happy go lucky gay-porn addict was alive and kicking back then as well. Let's just say the reaction I received from Gateway was pretty good regarding the Amiga side of things, and the situation was brought to the board to review. In my opinion, the path Amiga is going with the DE/AA and the AmigaOne is much better than what would have become from the Jim Collas year(s). However, don't let my opinion effect your own opinion regarding the matter.
Microsoft and Gateway Amiga : Comment 43 of 44ANN.lu
Posted by Him that Doesnt ?? on 23-Mar-2002 18:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 42 (Kent Seaton):
Very interesting !!
Cant wait for the 2 year NDA to expire :)
btw.. Although I supported Jc .. I do agree with you on the direction AI are now taking with the DE ..AA
But was Jim "Aware" of Tao & their product back then?? Probably not, or if he was, the constraints of "The Board" @ Gateway would have prevented A similar "Liason" as AI's. ............ Perhaps thats even what happened ??
Who knows..??
Microsoft and Gateway Amiga : Comment 44 of 44ANN.lu
Posted by John Block on 23-Mar-2002 20:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 42 (Kent Seaton):
>it would be releasing political strategies Gateway is still following today
Don't know aboutpolitical, but one known Gateway strategy is to to view the market as lots of sub markets.
Anonymous, there are 44 items in your selection
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