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[News] IBrowse 2.3 UpdateANN.lu
Posted on 07-Apr-2002 22:54 GMT by Christian Kemp107 comments
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Darren Eveland wrote: Information on the status of IBrowse 2.3, taken from the IBrowse mailing list. Stefan Burstroem, the main author of IBrowse, has posted to the IBrowse mailing list some details about the upcoming IBrowse 2.3.
  1. The 2.3 release is "not far off at all".
  2. The feature set is frozen and the remaining bugs are being fixed now.
  3. The 2.3 upgrade will be a free release, available on Aminet.
  4. It should work on a standard Amiga running OS 3.0/3.1/3.5/3.9.
IBrowse 2.3 Update : Comment 1 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by Michael Taylor on 07-Apr-2002 21:42 GMT
This is cool for those who use IB. I gave up on it a while back. Perhaps it'll be worth going back to.
Thanks for sharing the info. It is good news. :) Anything the Amiga can get IS good. ;)
IBrowse 2.3 Update : Comment 2 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by Tommy on 07-Apr-2002 22:57 GMT
do you need miami to give ibrowse 2.3 the ability to do ssl? I have ibrowse 2.2
and was pissed when I couldn't have asscess to web pages because I
needed ssl. who in there right mind would buy ibrowse then I think it's $20 to
register for miami to have ssl. $60 just to browse some of the net. and don't
forget your crash helmet.
IBrowse 2.3 Update : Comment 3 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by Jerry/Gerald Gibbons on 07-Apr-2002 23:00 GMT
This really shows that AMIGA is coming back from the brink. I've got all the previous IB versions from 1.1v now I can upgrade again. I dream come true! This is just way too much GOOD NEWS to believe!!!
THANK YOU!
THANK YOU!
THANK YOU!
;-D
IBrowse 2.3 Update : Comment 4 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by Mathew on 07-Apr-2002 23:14 GMT
Anyone have any idea what features it might add, besides some much needed bug fixes? Personally I'd like to see advanced recognition of file formats (sometimes it doesn't recognize some formats no matter how I try), and the ability to choose in the menu from different sets of button graphics. I'd also like to see highlighting handled differently, because IE and NN highlight in black background, while IB only reverses the colors. A lot of sites make you highlight hidden text, so IBrowse can't see it because gray on gray becomes... gray on gray. In IE it becomes gray on black and you can read the text!
IBrowse 2.3 Update : Comment 5 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by Oliver Roberts on 07-Apr-2002 23:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Tommy):
IBrowse 2.3 will work with AmiSSL v2 (slated for release with IB 2.3),
and therefore doesn't rely soley on MiamiSSL anymore.
IBrowse 2.3 Update : Comment 6 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by Richard Till on 07-Apr-2002 23:30 GMT
thankyou there must be a god out there its a dream come true ibrowse is the best and its about to get better!!!!!
IBrowse 2.3 Update : Comment 7 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by Warren on 07-Apr-2002 23:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Tommy):
It is my understanding that it will come with it own SSL :-)
IBrowse 2.3 Update : Comment 8 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 08-Apr-2002 00:14 GMT
Wow, great! I would say the Amiga gets a serious momentum again. :-)
IBrowse 2.3 Update : Comment 9 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 08-Apr-2002 02:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (Jerry/Gerald Gibbons):
Yeah ...
>
>
Were not Worthy, Were not Worthy
IBrowse 2.3 Update : Comment 10 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by Mike Veroukis on 08-Apr-2002 02:33 GMT
Any word on what that feature set might be? I might have to give it a try.
- Mike
IBrowse 2.3 Update : Comment 11 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by Rimmerz on 08-Apr-2002 02:58 GMT
Great news!!! I LOVE this browser!!
Thank you Stefan!!
IBrowse 2.3 Update : Comment 12 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by Gary Butler on 08-Apr-2002 03:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (Rimmerz):
IBrowse is nice but I wish those lazy Amiga coders would hurry up and port Mozilla to the Amiga, at least to OS 4.0!
Come on Amiga coders we need a port of Netscape, it is 2002 already!!!
IBrowse 2.3 Update : Comment 13 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by Björn Hagström on 08-Apr-2002 04:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (Gary Butler):
You are joking, right?
/Björn
IBrowse 2.3 Update : Comment 14 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by Seehund on 08-Apr-2002 05:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (Björn Hagström):
Why would he be joking? The Gecko engine is great, and it should run even better on a PPC750/600MHz/AmigaOS4 than it already does on my POS PIII/500MHz/Linux box. Yes, Mozilla, and to some extent Gecko, consumes gobs of RAM and CPU, but we'll hopefully have access to gobs of RAM and CPU RSN(TM).
Of course, I wouldn't mind a lean 'n' mean IBrowse/AWeb/Voyager PPC version supporting post-1997 WWW standards, but that doesn't seem to be more than a dream for years to come.
IBrowse 2.3 Update : Comment 15 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by Björn Hagström on 08-Apr-2002 05:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (Seehund):
Because normal people don't demand of others to do free work for them and on top of that call them lazy.
/Björn
IBrowse 2.3 Update : Comment 16 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by cOrpse on 08-Apr-2002 05:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (Seehund):
Frankly i can`t see the problem with ibrowse ... I can view every site that doesn`t include Flash , shockwave or Twisted M$ tags perfectly fine. Slashdot ( last time i looked at that they were running m$ .net ads ! boycott !! ) looks the same on my amiga as it does on my pc ... ironicly Amiga.org is the only site that looks better on the pc :S.
IBrowse 2.3 Update : Comment 17 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by TurboLbn on 08-Apr-2002 05:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (cOrpse):
No, you can't.
You can't view any site that uses CSS for the layout correctly.
CSS is the way to do it in later html versions, you know.
try http://www.geek.no/ with an Amiga browser. Then look at it in Mozilla.
You notice the difference ?
The site uses 100% valid html/css code.
--
Glenn Hisdal
IBrowse 2.3 Update : Comment 18 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by Seehund on 08-Apr-2002 06:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (Björn Hagström):
Ah, I see your point.
OTOH he wasn't "demanding", he was "wishing". The "lazy" bit may sound harsh, but AFAIK the AmigaDE Mozilla project hasn't been going anywhere, and there's no active effort to do any port to AmigaOS4+. Of course it would have be done for free, due to the MPL.
IBrowse 2.3 Update : Comment 19 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 08-Apr-2002 06:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 12 (Gary Butler):
"I wish those lazy Amiga coders would hurry up and port Mozilla to the Amiga"
Then get of your fat lazy arse and do it yourself if you want it that badly.
What is it with some people that they feel they can demand that OTHERS do all the work (for free) and then slag them off for being lazy if they don't...
*sigh*
IBrowse 2.3 Update : Comment 20 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 08-Apr-2002 06:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (Seehund):
Also when you look at the Mozilla AmigaDE port's pages they state quite clearly that Amiga Inc doesn't want an AmigaOS port of Mozilla. So I'd say that it would be quite difficult to do a port without Amiga Inc's approval, as this would probably mean that Hyperion wouldn't be able to assist.
Alex.
IBrowse 2.3 Update : Comment 21 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by Eric Chernoff on 08-Apr-2002 06:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (Anonymous):
Well, I count myself as one of those 'lazy' folks who wishes someone else would port Mozilla to AmigaOS. I have tried, but I lack the understanding of application programming to really do it.
However, I'll say this. I would pay for Amiga-Mozilla or Amiga-Konquerer. And by pay, I am thinking in the range of $250-$350. If I hadn't had already pre-orderd my AmigaOne, I'd probably go to $1,000. I bet there are a few others who would do the same.
I know that's an incredible amount for a Web browser, but here's how I see it: A modern web browser would be every bit as useful and important to me as any of the $300-$1,000 upgrades that I've made over the years. Sure, that kind of money usually gets you hardware, but the bottom line is that it gives you added usefulness, which is exactly what a Web browser would give you.
I imagine there may be issues with selling Mozilla/Konquerer ports for profit, seeing as they are Open Source projects, but not if you charge for "labor." That is, the port should be freely available once it's completed, and the programmer(s) would invoice someone for the job. I suppose that means that some of us would need to volunteer to pay for everyone to have a good Web browser.
BTW, IBrowse is pretty nice, but I am thinking that a .1 increase (2.2 -> 2.3) can't be THAT overwhelmingly exciting.
IBrowse 2.3 Update : Comment 22 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by Seehund on 08-Apr-2002 07:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (cOrpse):
> I can view every site that doesn`t include Flash , shockwave or
> Twisted M$ tags perfectly fine.
You don't do much browsing then if you've managed to avoid any site depending on any standard newer than the 1997 HTML 3.2 standard which the current IBrowse (partially) supports. For chrissakes, 4.01 has been around since 1999!
> ironicly Amiga.org is the only site that looks better on the pc
Just another site using standard stylesheets. We desperately need HTML4/XHTML/MathML and so on and so forth. They're W3C standards, not MS proprietary perversions.
Flash and other formats requiring proprietary plugins are of course garbage and they don't belong on the web. However, many sites with clueless "webmasters" unfortunately depend on it, so we need this too.
IBrowse 2.3 Update : Comment 23 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by Hagge on 08-Apr-2002 07:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 21 (Eric Chernoff):
But you would probably not pay for an amigaport then the sourcecode for that one has to be free for everyone.
(yes, gnu sucks....)
IBrowse 2.3 Update : Comment 24 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by Seehund on 08-Apr-2002 07:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (Anonymous):
James Russel (the mozAmiga guy) says "However, a port to Amiga OS doesn't make sense - an Amiga Inc. developer begged me not to consider it, even." (http://mozamiga.mozdev.org/)
> So I'd say that it would be quite difficult to do a port without
> Amiga Inc's approval, as this would probably mean that Hyperion
> wouldn't be able to assist.
WTF?? Why would anybody need Amiga's approval for programming anything, unless it's to to be bundled with Amiga products?
And since when do developers need assistance from Hyperion? It seems the opposite is true. Or did I miss some sarcasm here?
IBrowse 2.3 Update : Comment 25 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by Eric Chernoff on 08-Apr-2002 07:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (Hagge):
I don't see what the source code being available would have to do with it. Sure, the source becomes available, but that wouldn't prevent me for paying the developer for accomplishing the feat.
I geuss the developer would have to think of this as a one-time deal. Once the source is out, then they would have a tough time charging for updates.
IBrowse 2.3 Update : Comment 26 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by Peter Gordon on 08-Apr-2002 07:28 GMT
YAY! IBrowse is my favourite browser on any platform, so the fact that it is being actively developed makes me really happy :))
Good work IBrowse people!
IBrowse 2.3 Update : Comment 27 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by Alkemyst on 08-Apr-2002 07:32 GMT
IB rocks
IBrowse 2.3 Update : Comment 28 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 08-Apr-2002 07:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (Anonymous):
Amiga Inc's approval? If they start playing those games, I'll
smash my Amiga into tiny pieces and move to Linux for good. They
can just feck off.
I will not stand up for a computer platform where I'm not FREE to
do as I please. If I wanna port mozilla to OS4.0, I'll damn well
do so.
IBrowse 2.3 Update : Comment 29 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 08-Apr-2002 07:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 24 (Seehund):
That's bullshit! If they started doing such things they are shooting themselves
in the foot! DOH! Why? To support their AmigaDE s**t and kill AmigaOS?! Why?
Tell me one good reason...
IBrowse 2.3 Update : Comment 30 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by Hagge on 08-Apr-2002 08:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (Eric Chernoff):
most ppl would probably not pay for anything they can get for free
IBrowse 2.3 Update : Comment 31 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 08-Apr-2002 08:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (Anonymous):
This is nonsense.
This information is no doubt entirely outdated.
IBrowse 2.3 Update : Comment 32 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by Eric Chernoff on 08-Apr-2002 08:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 30 (Hagge):
> most ppl would probably not pay for anything they can get for free
That's true, but you can't get Mozilla on AmigaOS for free now. The only way to get Mozilla on AmigaOS is to pay someone who is capable to port Mozilla to AmigaOS. As I said earlier, I'd be happy to pay up to $1,000 for a developer to make this happen. Unfortunately, I doubt that this is enough to motivate someone to take this effort.
It is obvious that no one is willing or able to port Mozilla just for being nice. I believe there are 10-20 people out there with the appropriate knowledge and skill to actually do the job, but it's just too much work to do for free. It seems like it's more work than building a new OS.
So here's the irony: No one will get Mozilla for Amiga until someone pays for it. Who in their right mind would pay for it? Someone who *really* needs it and is willing to let everyone else have a free ride in order to get it.
IBrowse 2.3 Update : Comment 33 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 08-Apr-2002 08:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 28 (Anonymous):
Amiga certainly didn't place any restrictions on us regarding what software we can or cannot port nor would we accept any such restrictions.
Seehund: For your information, Hans-Joerg Frieden of Hyperion was once involved in an ill-fated attempt to port Mozilla to the Amiga right around the time I recruited him. I believe he was quite far advanced with a port of GTK (which he donated to the OpenOffice porting team).
Our estimate to port the Gecko engine to OS 4 is 2 months tops.
But that's two months we don't have right now.
It really isn't all that difficult (the code is very platform independent) but you need to know your way around Linux and Amiga.
IBrowse 2.3 Update : Comment 34 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by DaveW on 08-Apr-2002 08:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 32 (Eric Chernoff):
I have ported Mozilla to AmigaOS before - well to be honest it was a "quick port" and a lot of the code ended up being commented out.
I will do a port when I get my hands on AmigaOS4 because the 68k Amiga doesnt really have the poke for the Mozilla bloatware ( said affectionately ). That is unless someone ports it before me.
However I will not take money from anyone so put your wallet away.
IBrowse 2.3 Update : Comment 35 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by Jan-Erik Karlsson on 08-Apr-2002 08:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 32 (Eric Chernoff):
for a $1,000 I would surely do it, IF I knew more about the Gecko/mozilla engine
(there has to be something fishy since so many have 'failed', the GTK part isn't that hard to make into a reaction based gui -with some additional classes-) and if I then could promise a release on 68K/PPC amigaOS 3.x/4.x.
the first part is the GTK+ and to make a amiga library of that
the rest should be relatively simple (please note: relatively)
IBrowse 2.3 Update : Comment 36 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by Jan-Erik Karlsson on 08-Apr-2002 08:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 34 (DaveW):
how about making it a WarpOS 'fat' binary then it should run on current machines even 68K's if someone would want to do that and on future OS4.x PPC machines like SharkPPC amigaOne (1.5, G3-SE, whatever). without any major recompiles.
IBrowse 2.3 Update : Comment 37 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by Seehund on 08-Apr-2002 08:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 33 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
Thanks for the info. I was baffled by Alex bringing up Hyperion in a seemingly irrelevant way in comment #20.
> Our estimate to port the Gecko engine to OS 4 is 2 months tops.
That's what I thought.
> But that's two months we don't have right now.
Is Frieden's work so far available somewhere?
If I only could code my way out of a wet paper bag I'd set up a port project on mozdev.org right this minute. Are there no unoccupied coders left in the "community"?
IBrowse 2.3 Update : Comment 38 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by DaveW on 08-Apr-2002 08:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 36 (Jan-Erik Karlsson):
A major bottleneck is the display classes in the Amiga. I extended boopsi heavily to bring it up to a reasonable GTK level of functionality and wrote bindings and I got to the point where it was working slowly and crash prone. Having done it once I would do it again a different way.
The last port I did of M9 was using X11 library. It worked nicely but again it was slowed by the display code.
I did not have a PPC compiler at the time but the perf profile I did of the binary showed the slowest part of the system were calls to graphics.library or picasso library.
IBrowse 2.3 Update : Comment 39 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by Gary Butler on 08-Apr-2002 08:59 GMT
I am willing to chip in $1000 if someone ports Mozilla to Amiga!
Come on you lazy bastards!!
And if it needs a AmigaOne to run or PowerPC then I say good! Make people upgrade so they can use it. And if Hyper is to lazy to port it then maybe an Amithlon eveloper can port it to Amithlon using x86 code calls to make it faaaasst!
Get busy Amiga coders or are you to amature for the job?
IBrowse 2.3 Update : Comment 40 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by DaveW on 08-Apr-2002 09:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 37 (Seehund):
If it isnt too rude to say it here the reason the previous ports failed was because of the organiser.
IBrowse 2.3 Update : Comment 41 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by DaveW on 08-Apr-2002 09:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 39 (Gary Butler):
> Come on you lazy bastards!!
> And if Hyper is to lazy to port it
> Get busy Amiga coders or are you to amature for the job?
Its comments like this that make me want to take a gun shoot off your genitalia millimetre by millimetre until you die of agonizing pain.
But Im too lazy to bother.
IBrowse 2.3 Update : Comment 42 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 08-Apr-2002 09:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 37 (Seehund):
I believe the OpenOffice team got Hans-Joerg's GTK porting efforts.
If you're interested I suggest you contact them or him.
The Amiga developer pool is becoming quite shallow what with Hyperion taking 30+ developers so that they can work on OS 4.
Don't ask me why nobody ever succeeded in porting Mozilla, it really isn't that hard but then what is easy for one of the Friedens isn't necessarily easy for anybody else.
You'd be surprised how much stamina is involved when porting software.
People think it's just a question of firing up a C compiler and you're done.
Like we always say in Hyperion: "the first 90% of the porting work is easy, it's the next 90% that's the hard part".
It could be that earlier ill-fated attempts were undertaken at a time when the codebase was still rather buggy or more likely by individuals without the required knowledge and stamina to stick to a project of that magnitude.
You see that all time time, people rushing to port some code, they get it to a state where it somewhat works most of the time, then they loose interest and wander off.
IBrowse 2.3 Update : Comment 43 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by DaveW on 08-Apr-2002 09:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 42 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
> You see that all time time, people rushing to port some code, they get it to a > state where it somewhat works most of the time, then they loose interest and
> wander off.
Yep. That last one was me. :-)
IBrowse 2.3 Update : Comment 44 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by Jan-Erik Karlsson on 08-Apr-2002 09:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 42 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
the reason most people that port something stop is for a number of reasons
1) school (term papers, finals etc. you know the drill)
2) too few is interested in it.
3) he is a single person working on a major project (like Mozilla) where you really should be several just to bounce ideas around (just that usually solves quite a few problems quickly)
4) the amigaos puts a big brake on it (the current perl version for instance requires a working fork() but...), related to 3.
IBrowse 2.3 Update : Comment 45 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by Eric Chernoff on 08-Apr-2002 09:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 34 (DaveW):
> However I will not take money from anyone so put your wallet away.
Well, that's a terrific sentiment. I know that you could also do it, based on my earlier emails with you. I imagine that you lost interest in it or didn't have the time/drive to finish it. The bottom line is that you are happy to give me something for free provided it doesn't exist.
From the outside, it seems like that's the reason all the Mozilla porting efforts failed for those reasons. It's hard to hold interest and give time to something that is (a) not very much fun and (b) not going to give you any kind of payout. This is why my home page has never been very good and why so many people watch TV all night instead of take hot meals to old people.
Something has got to create that drive to actually give the time and the interest. If the passion isn't there to create the drive, then there must be a reward. The best I can offer is money. Money seems to be a fairly good method of getting folks to follow-through.
Now, if it seems like there is some interest in my proposal, then I would come up with some scheme to make this an official offer. Some set of rules for making sure the right person got the right money for the right result.
BTW, Not being willing to complete a difficult/boring task for free does not make a person lazy. It makes that person normal and sane.
IBrowse 2.3 Update : Comment 46 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by DaveW on 08-Apr-2002 09:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 45 (Eric Chernoff):
Im that recognisable? :-) Well sure I could do it on AmigaOS3.9 right now if people are prepared to wait months for me to get it to a polished state where it performs adequately and runs without X11 but I think it is more sensible to wait until I get the developerboard I have ordered, sign up to Ben and Cos. beta programme and make it another reason people should upgread to AmigaOS4.0 - because then I hope that the display libraries are PPC native and that people will have a reasonably good gfx card running, a single TCP stack and a single SSL library available.
But I am busy writing a killer application already for AmigaOS3.x and 4.x so that would have to take a back seat.
IBrowse 2.3 Update : Comment 47 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by Gary Butler on 08-Apr-2002 09:42 GMT
I will pony up $1000 for a port of Mozilla to Amiga, 68K, MorphOS, Amithlon, Amiga OS 4.0 I have or will have them all so I don't care what you port it to. Even the dead RIP BeOS has a Mozilla port. Shame shame Amiga coders, shame shame.
Will anyone else pony up some cash?
IBrowse 2.3 Update : Comment 48 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by DaveW on 08-Apr-2002 09:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 47 (Gary Butler):
Wheres the shame?
Perhaps this should be a registered charity.
IBrowse 2.3 Update : Comment 49 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by Gary Butler on 08-Apr-2002 09:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 48 (DaveW):
The shame is that the fantastic programmers on the Amiga have done wonderous things for many years, many firsts for personal computers. Amiga makes you excited to use a computer since 1985 because of the great coders even now in 2002!
But sadly the product that launched the internet, the buzz app for so many years (Netscape) is on everything BUT Amiga!
IBrowse 2.3 Update : Comment 50 of 107ANN.lu
Posted by darklite on 08-Apr-2002 10:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 47 (Gary Butler):
>I will pony up $1000 for a port of Mozilla to Amiga, 68K, MorphOS, Amithlon,
>Amiga OS 4.0 I have or will have them all so I don't care what you port it to.
>Even the dead RIP BeOS has a Mozilla port. Shame shame Amiga coders, shame
>shame.
For $1000 you can have a very nice PC which can run Mozilla on a number of platforms.
Somehow I can't believe you won't donate $1000
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