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[News] Interview with Thomas Frieden about AOS4ANN.lu
Posted on 23-Apr-2002 17:32 GMT by catohagen108 comments
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A very interesting interview with Thomas Frieden (of Hyperion/AOS4 fame) was posted on amigarulez.org. It was conducted by Johan "Graak" Forsberg and relays questions/concerns from people on amigarulez. http://www.kicker.nu/amigarulez/html/sections.php?op=viewarticle&artid=1
Interview with Thomas Frieden about AOS4 : Comment 1 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 23-Apr-2002 15:58 GMT
"We recently found out that they(DCE) were instructed by bPlan not to cooperate with the OS 4 development team in any way."
guess those blizzard's will have a hard time running a real ppc os then :(
Interview with Thomas Frieden about AOS4 : Comment 2 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Kronos on 23-Apr-2002 16:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Anonymous):
Why ?
The only existing (and Amiga-compatible) OS is
running on them right now *eg*
/me just started a flame war
Interview with Thomas Frieden about AOS4 : Comment 3 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 23-Apr-2002 16:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Kronos):
Do you really have nothing better to do Stefan, than starting stupid flamewars?
Grow up.
Interview with Thomas Frieden about AOS4 : Comment 4 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Kronos on 23-Apr-2002 16:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
Do you have nothing better to do than posting here ?
Get a life ;)))
Interview with Thomas Frieden about AOS4 : Comment 5 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by anonymous on 23-Apr-2002 16:09 GMT
Excellent interview.
Increasingly I get the impression that Amiga and Hyperion are looking out for the interests of the entire community but it's a bit distressing when we keep seeing other agendas putting up roadblocks.
It's time for a few people to bury the hatchet - pride has a tendency to get in the way of reason.
Interview with Thomas Frieden about AOS4 : Comment 6 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 23-Apr-2002 16:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Anonymous):
"We recently found out that they(DCE) were instructed by bPlan not to cooperate with the OS 4 development team in any way."
IMHO: It is extremely bad thing that the HW and OS is done by the same company (and even more so if it is by the same individual).
The difference in success is similar to the success of Micro$oft vs Apple.
Interview with Thomas Frieden about AOS4 : Comment 7 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by cOrpse on 23-Apr-2002 16:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Kronos):
"The only existing (and Amiga-compatible) OS is running on them right now *eg*"
I beg to differ , the currently available version that os doesn`t even have a desktop and instead rapes another os for it , also wheres its support apps like HDtoolBox and the calculator ?
And u can say the internal version a much different beast all u like but we have yet to see it and can only judge what these people have produced so far and what they did many years ago !!
Interview with Thomas Frieden about AOS4 : Comment 8 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by jack on 23-Apr-2002 16:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Kronos):
For an hour or so...
If you can make it run...
And I can't. (although I could when I first downloaded it. Dunno what
I got right then that I'm doing wrong now...)
And it was shit (on my system anyway)
/me just fanned the flames
That said, I'm getting sick of the slowness of Voyager now that things
are moving and the forums are hotting up. Mabye time for another go?
Or mabye not...
BTW, Kronos: How's the OpenOffice port coming along?
Interview with Thomas Frieden about AOS4 : Comment 9 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Gelb on 23-Apr-2002 16:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
Sorry Ben, but your name is actually enough to start flamewars. You act in most of the cases just not like the guy who is "the lawyer", the "PR guy" and the "OS4 Project manager". How about growing up yourself a bit?
Interview with Thomas Frieden about AOS4 : Comment 10 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 23-Apr-2002 16:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (Kronos):
So you want also this thread to be the kindergarten of MOS/quark fanatics.
levels of blindness:
1) able to see
2) limited ability to see
3) unable to see
4) Amiga fanatic
5) MOS fanatic
;)
Interview with Thomas Frieden about AOS4 : Comment 11 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by cOrpse on 23-Apr-2002 16:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 3 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
It may be wise just to ignore such people , they had their cornfakes shat on and the fireworks pissed on as soon as even a hint of os4 got out. I think they did indeed think RS was going to lead them to nirvana on the back of one of mos` kack`e ppc cards and alas they haven`t really produced anything but headaches.
Interview with Thomas Frieden about AOS4 : Comment 12 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by cOrpse on 23-Apr-2002 16:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (jack):
"BTW, Kronos: How's the OpenOffice port coming along?"
I always think its best not to announce projects till you`re atleast half way thru , then you know if its even possible . the amiga mozzila peeps should have used this rule.
Interview with Thomas Frieden about AOS4 : Comment 13 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by SlimJim on 23-Apr-2002 16:46 GMT
<sidestepping the heap of shouting community members wrestling each other on the floor>
I found this piece interesting:
> A lot of stuff is also added to Exec. There will be a completely new
> library interface that will allow the programmer to offer different views of
> a library to application programmers,
> and have libraries split up their functionality to different "interfaces".
Not completely news I guess, but I didn't ponder over it before . It would be nice
to have further explanations of this new library concept..
> We're also hoping to be able to include real virtual memory with OS4, as well as a limited form of memory protection
> (full memory protection will probably break backwards compatibility).
Whereas the virtual memory were said to appear right in 4.0, the memory protection
(even the non-"full" implementation) was to be a later addition. Mr. Frieden talks of it
as if it's on par with the virtual memory development. A typo, news or me reading
this interview too damn closely? ;-)
> We also have plans for something called resource tracking, which is
> a method for programs to track what system resources (memory, files, windows, screens, etc) they have opened. So
> when a program crashes, the system will be able to completely remove it from memory, including all the windows/screens
> it opened, or files it was reading.
Very nice! But I suppose this is also something for AOS4.1 (or BB)?
.
SlimJim
Interview with Thomas Frieden about AOS4 : Comment 14 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by David Scheibler on 23-Apr-2002 16:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (priest):
Well DCE and bplan are not the same company...
But it's not unusal, it's just the problem every software company has if they
don't develop the hardware, too. From some hw-companies you get the
information, from others not (see nVidia, ATI,...). Normal business I would say.
Interview with Thomas Frieden about AOS4 : Comment 15 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by CyberZorro on 23-Apr-2002 16:56 GMT
>Do you really have nothing better to do Stefan, than starting stupid >flamewars?
>Grow up.
@Mr Ben Hermans
I sometimes find it really hard to believe you are a professional. Why can't you get along with critizism?! Why not just stay cool? You are the one who knows the most of OS4, you know whats really going on behind the scenes...
I don´t think you gain anything by posting here. Your colleages, the Friedens, did the right thing. They don`t bother with posting anymore but concentrate on their real work.
Interview with Thomas Frieden about AOS4 : Comment 16 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Remco Komduur on 23-Apr-2002 17:00 GMT
Well, well, well. Once we all started as Amiga freaks. Then it split and some programmers and hardware developers thought they could do better. They thought that Amiga went belly-up by now and that MorphOS would be the saviour to Amiga users.
Now Amiga continues and they start acting like idoits. They would rather let the BlizzardPPC die then that I get OS 4 for it. I was thinking of getting a Grex but without OS 4 support; FORGET IT!
What also makes me sick is that bPlan seem to have so much power over DCE that they actually don't cooperate!! What actually is in the contract DCE signed when they took over the PPC hardware? Or did they get a threat that a new FlashBIOS might get out destroying any current OS support. Or no support for the G-Rex anymore.
I know one thing! I will hold bPlan personally responsible for every problem the last few years and the ones still to come!
And now I have a statement to make:
I was open to running MorphOS on my BPPC and AOne too but I am now going to boycott bPlan, MorphOS and every product related to it. I have waited severall years to get normal support for my BPPC but it never came. The situation only got worse and in the small community we now have this is no good. Finally Amiga makes a PPC OS and they get absolutelly silch support hardware.
I have had it.
Interview with Thomas Frieden about AOS4 : Comment 17 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by cOrpse on 23-Apr-2002 17:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (CyberZorro):
i think its good that someone involved in os 4 not only posts here with whats happening but also defends their product from the shit the darkside spread.
Interview with Thomas Frieden about AOS4 : Comment 18 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Toner on 23-Apr-2002 17:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Anonymous):
"We recently found out that they(DCE) were instructed by bPlan not to cooperate with the OS 4 development team in any
way."
Why would DCE not want AmigaOS to run on their Amiga hardware?? Though perhaps this explains
why DCE has totally ignored our requests for a Grex driver development kit...
It sounds as if they don't want much if any driver development outside of DCE to happen at all. :/
I really hate politics.
Interview with Thomas Frieden about AOS4 : Comment 19 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Ole-Egil Hvitmyren on 23-Apr-2002 17:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (Bill Toner):
Amen. Btw: any chance of you cool froods helping me initialize an Ati 3D rage so linuxppc can take over? Must I really beg? ;)
Interview with Thomas Frieden about AOS4 : Comment 20 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Gelb on 23-Apr-2002 17:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (cOrpse):
You are in some kind of religious war, aren't you?
Interview with Thomas Frieden about AOS4 : Comment 21 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by cOrpse on 23-Apr-2002 17:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (Remco Komduur):
here here , those arses raped us and want us to go back for more ! no fucking way. DCE / Bplan / Phase 5 / Mos + all these small crappy companies getting involved are one and the same ,back to rape us once again. They`ll take pre-orders and "loose" the money , they`ll even send out dodgy boards and give no decent tech support.
And if you think microsofts bad look at what bplan told dce to do ! tsk tsk.
OS 4 really has them running , that or they just found out the trying to revieve the amiga like platform the way their trying has failed before and will again for them .
Interview with Thomas Frieden about AOS4 : Comment 22 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by David Scheibler on 23-Apr-2002 17:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (Remco Komduur):
>I know one thing! I will hold bPlan personally responsible for every problem
>the last few years and the ones still to come!
Why don't you ask both sides (Hyperion and DCE) why they didn't come to an
agreement? Maybe it's just a "too many bills but too less bucks" thing. At
least Hyperion and DCE came to an agreement before and there is also another
generic PCI library that'll support GRex.
Interview with Thomas Frieden about AOS4 : Comment 23 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Troels Ersking on 23-Apr-2002 17:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (David Scheibler):
>Well DCE and bplan are not the same company...
>But it's not unusal, it's just the problem every software company has if they
>don't develop the hardware, too. From some hw-companies you get the
>information, from others not (see nVidia, ATI,...). Normal business I would >say.""
You're right it is normal business, but the Amiga market is not a normal market, it won't react as a normal market.
I hope that DCE will change their strategy.
If they won't, I hope people will spend their money elsewhere.
Interview with Thomas Frieden about AOS4 : Comment 24 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by cOrpse on 23-Apr-2002 17:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (Gelb):
No i`m a realist , these people took us for a ride, and look who else is joining in with them ... all the others that took us for a ride .they`re even trying to use m$ tactics to force their os.
Interview with Thomas Frieden about AOS4 : Comment 25 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by David Scheibler on 23-Apr-2002 17:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 21 (cOrpse):
>DCE / Bplan / Phase 5 / Mos + all these small crappy companies getting
>involved are one and the same
At least they were good enough for Eyetech to produce the Predator PCI board
and the AmigaOne prototype.
Interview with Thomas Frieden about AOS4 : Comment 26 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Troels Ersking on 23-Apr-2002 17:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (David Scheibler):
>At least they were good enough for Eyetech to produce the Predator PCI board
>and the AmigaOne prototype.
Could it be that some things have changed since then?
Maybe DCE have an other way of doing business now? To me it sure seems like it.
Interview with Thomas Frieden about AOS4 : Comment 27 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by David Scheibler on 23-Apr-2002 17:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 26 (Troels Ersking):
>Could it be that some things have changed since then?
Strange. I was hearing these complains about DCE for years. So what did recently change?
Interview with Thomas Frieden about AOS4 : Comment 28 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Johan Forsberg on 23-Apr-2002 18:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 27 (David Scheibler):
All I know about DCE is that they have f*ed me for the last time. My '060 broke down, and they promised to repair it in 2 weeks. I sent it in and haven't seen it for *8 months*. I've written numerous emails from cajoling to threatening to all the email addresses at DCE and have received no reply.
Interview with Thomas Frieden about AOS4 : Comment 29 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 23-Apr-2002 18:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 24 (cOrpse):
>they`re even trying to use m$ tactics to force their os.
No no, you got it all wrong! AInc are the ones with M$ tactics!
Interview with Thomas Frieden about AOS4 : Comment 30 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Johan "Graak" Forsberg on 23-Apr-2002 18:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 28 (Johan Forsberg):
Hey, it's my evil clone brother!! =)
DCE seems to be a really f**cked up company. We don't need crooks like them in the Amiga world..
Interview with Thomas Frieden about AOS4 : Comment 31 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Leif on 23-Apr-2002 18:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 30 (Johan "Graak" Forsberg):
Do they live in some kind of dream-world where behaveiour
like that will go un-noticed ??
Interview with Thomas Frieden about AOS4 : Comment 32 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Johan "The other one" Forsberg on 23-Apr-2002 18:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 30 (Johan "Graak" Forsberg):
Wait a minute, that can't be right! You're the evil one! Just look at your photo at AmigaRulez!! BTW, nice interview with der Frieden. You have my permission to use our name on it :-)
Interview with Thomas Frieden about AOS4 : Comment 33 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by NIL: on 23-Apr-2002 18:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 28 (Johan Forsberg):
I prefer not to take a part these kind of political debates,
but just wanted to say that DCE "repaired" my BVision nearly
a year, and when it finally came back, it still didn`t work properly.
Interview with Thomas Frieden about AOS4 : Comment 34 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Johan "Graak" Forsberg on 23-Apr-2002 18:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 31 (Leif):
I've heard so many horror stories about DCE and PPC cards that never came back to their owners. And now this crap, that they refuse to give ANY kind of help to the AmigaOS4 team.. GAAAAAAH!! =)
I feel really lucky I've never dealt with them (I bought my Blizzard PPC back in the Phase5 days).
Interview with Thomas Frieden about AOS4 : Comment 35 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 23-Apr-2002 18:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 34 (Johan "Graak" Forsberg):
Well, if you are a MorphOS developer, you do get special treatment from them.
Dce will repair your card in two weeks.
If not, you're screwed.
Interview with Thomas Frieden about AOS4 : Comment 36 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Amifan on 23-Apr-2002 19:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (David Scheibler):
David Scheibler, what's wrong with you? Your previous posts made at least a little sense...
"Normal business I would say."
Compagny X asking compagny Y not to support a compatitive product of one of a person that is part of Compagny X is not normal business. It's called "no fair compitition". Dunno if it's forbidden by law, but it's for sure a M$ way of doing business which brought them into this anti-trust case.
".....and there is also another generic PCI library that'll support GRex."
Oh great, Let's have two PCI.libraries in libs:
One with Mediator/Prometheus/AmigaOne support.
One with Prometheus/GREX/Mediator support.
Let's assume that they don't share the same name to keep it simple (avoid renaming and rebooting problems).
So you want to use that cool driver for hardware X with your GREX.
Oops...it's made for the AmigaOS4 driver...Let's flame Harald Frank for NOT having the same drivers as the AmigaOS4 PCI.library.
This just makes no sense, DCE shout stop being R.S./bPlan's slave and give those devs docs to Hyperion. DCE gets this order to produce the Pegasos anyway.......
This is the only fair step they can make towards their customers.....
(They DO want to stay in business after MorphOS fails don't they/he)
Interview with Thomas Frieden about AOS4 : Comment 37 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Rob on 23-Apr-2002 19:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (Anonymous):
I think this "Amiga Inc is behaving like MS" thing is some sort of
paranoid delusion that some people are suffering from.
I think that any company that doesn't defend it's Intellectual
Property, trademarks and patents would be completely mad. Remember
although the amiga market is not very lucrative at the moment these
people have make money, feed their kids etc.
Also if I remember correctley when Amiga Inc was formed Gateway
retained most of the technology rights, Amiga Inc merely hold licenses
for these. Therefore they are probably bound by contract with Gateway
to defend these rights.
The final thing, Amiga don't have the kind of Muscle that MS does so
it would be difficult for them to behave in that kind of manner.
Interview with Thomas Frieden about AOS4 : Comment 38 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 23-Apr-2002 19:14 GMT
Thank *Uck my 8 year old 060 has run flawlessly from inception... Must be *ucking lucky by the posts I've read.
A1 all the way
Death or Glory
Interview with Thomas Frieden about AOS4 : Comment 39 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by 4pLaY on 23-Apr-2002 19:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 28 (Johan Forsberg):
i hear you! theyre a shady company! i even spoke to the asshole in charge before sending mine ohh he promised gold and green forests by the time i said my card is sent the asshole NEVER replyed me once! but before he did it several times a day! a SHIT FUCK company! FUCK DCE let them burn in hell
Interview with Thomas Frieden about AOS4 : Comment 40 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 23-Apr-2002 19:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (SlimJim):
"> We also have plans for something called resource tracking, which is
> a method for programs to track what system resources (memory, files, windows, screens, etc) they have
opened. So
> when a program crashes, the system will be able to completely remove it from memory, including all the
windows/screens
> it opened, or files it was reading.
Very nice! But I suppose this is also something for AOS4.1 (or BB)?"
It was stated back in 1992 that Resource Tracking was to come but
would not be in WB 4.0. The plans don't seem to have changed.
Interview with Thomas Frieden about AOS4 : Comment 41 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Anders Kjeldsen on 23-Apr-2002 19:43 GMT
I think it's sad to see that there's a lack of co-operation between the two parts (as always). But I guess it's DCE/BPlan/RS 's interest now, to not let AmigaOS4 get influence on their hardware. They have their interest the same way as Amiga Inc / Hyperion have their interest (which excludes Morphos(?)).
Now, I'm not comparing the interests themselves, but I'm comparing the facts that they both have interests at all.
About the interview; Sounds good. But I get the impression that they still have a looot of work to do. (I would not expect less) However, I think it's better that they spend time on the project and make it good, instead of working against a tough deadline.
Interview with Thomas Frieden about AOS4 : Comment 42 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Anders Kjeldsen on 23-Apr-2002 19:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 39 (4pLaY):
> "gold and green forests"
I'm not sure if this expression has managed to extend across the Norwegian borders though... ;) (not that I know)
Interview with Thomas Frieden about AOS4 : Comment 43 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Troels E on 23-Apr-2002 19:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 42 (Anders Kjeldsen):
We have the expression in Denmark.. (DCE's motto) -->"Guld og grønne skove".
I was wondering too if it existed in the english language?
Interview with Thomas Frieden about AOS4 : Comment 44 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Amifan on 23-Apr-2002 19:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 42 (Anders Kjeldsen):
Well, I at least I got his point :-)
Interview with Thomas Frieden about AOS4 : Comment 45 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Radfoo on 23-Apr-2002 20:00 GMT
I agree completly, I don't like Michael Shumacher either:)
Interview with Thomas Frieden about AOS4 : Comment 46 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Nicolas Sallin on 23-Apr-2002 20:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 35 (Anonymous):
No "MorphOS developer" gets a card repeared in two weeks. That's just plain lies.
And better use an anonymizer when you want to spread such lies, Mr.naziPPC.
Interview with Thomas Frieden about AOS4 : Comment 47 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Amifan on 23-Apr-2002 20:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 46 (Nicolas Sallin):
Like when it's better to post anonymous while accusing someone of being a nazi?
You should take your own advise
Interview with Thomas Frieden about AOS4 : Comment 48 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by SlimJim on 23-Apr-2002 20:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 43 (Troels E):
"Guld och gröna skogar" - it exists in Sweden too- great suprise! ;-)
(Borde inte ni norrmän använda "Olja och djupa fjordar" istället?)
.
SlimJim
Interview with Thomas Frieden about AOS4 : Comment 49 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Tricky on 23-Apr-2002 20:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 41 (Anders Kjeldsen):
It shouldn't be a surprise after all the legal threats against bplan that
we are in the pre hot stage of the coming war. There was already a cold
war since november and I'm sure it will get far worse when it gets really
hot this summer. Whoever presses the button will regret it.
Whatever happens it should be sure that the loosing group will be finished
with the amiga users and will only leave burned land the winner won't be
able to benefit from. Who will be the loser or winner in this clash isn't
so sure but is that important anymore ? It's the amiga decease that every
good project idea needs an opposition which can't allow the other group
to realize something for all. Without an enemy they can't define themselves.
EGS/CyberGfx/Picasso96, MUI/Classact, PowerUP/WarPUP and now MorphOS/OS4
speak for itself.
Interview with Thomas Frieden about AOS4 : Comment 50 of 108ANN.lu
Posted by Johan "Graak" Forsberg on 23-Apr-2002 20:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 43 (Troels E):
We have it in Sweden too =) "Guld och gröna skogar" =)
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