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[News] AFUA visited Thendic-FranceANN.lu
Posted on 24-Apr-2002 15:30 GMT by Teemu I. Yliselä629 comments
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The French Amiga user group AFUA visited the Thendic-France headquarters and met with Bill Buck and the Coyote Flux guys. Read their report here.
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 101 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by Anders Kjeldsen on 25-Apr-2002 09:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 96 (Samface):
>May I add that there are no specifications for the future of MorphOS either?
It was a speculation from my side that Amiga had never had any internal spesifications. My speculation about Morphos is that they've been on track since
the last two years at least. (I can't remember when I tried the first beta)
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 102 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 25-Apr-2002 09:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 84 (Samface):
Samface - you have proof of your allegations? Or are they just more of your lies, eh?
"Why pay for AmIRC when you can use a pirate copy for free" - SamFace
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 103 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by Anders Kjeldsen on 25-Apr-2002 09:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 102 (Anonymous):
>"Why pay for AmIRC when you can use a pirate copy for free" - SamFace
I guess that's going to be on your neck for the rest of your life (amiga-life) :p
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 104 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 25-Apr-2002 09:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 99 (Anders Kjeldsen):
Perhaps you should read the latest interview with Ben Hermans, http://www.student.oulu.fi/~jniemima/interviews/ben_hermans.html:
"One of the conditions was that Amiga Inc. wanted to decide the direction of the OS and the technology which was brought in by third parties. Their idea was that they had just paid almost 5 million dollars for the OS and that this entitled them to some degree of control."
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 105 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by Frodon on 25-Apr-2002 09:38 GMT
Hello again,
STOP YOUR STUPID WAR NOW PLEASE!!! All what you say is based on speculation. Actually there are no facts available!!! Facts will come when the products will be available. Until that a discussion about them is useless.
Bye
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 106 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by Tony Gore on 25-Apr-2002 09:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 57 (Anonymous):
"WTF are you talking about?? Last time I checked, the AmigaOne+OS4 was around 15%
more expensive than Pegasos in Yurop. For the difference of 127EUR one could get
a nice G4 "upgrade". Not sure if bplan is offering single G4 systems, but maybe
they could design this dualcpucard to be able to work with just one G4 soldered
on (and the possibility to buy a second one later?)..."
I'm talking about the existing PPC cards (which are in heritage of bPlan people) that by themselves cost more than a whole brand new system of any other platform. And so what if bPlan decide to charge $1195.00 USD for a G4 CPU upgrade for Pegasos....if you want it you pay the price. (THIS IS AN EXAMPLE ONLY>>>>IT IS NOT A REAL PRICE...ONLY WHAT I IMAGINE COULD HAPPEN) Hopefully it never does.
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 107 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by Anders Kjeldsen on 25-Apr-2002 09:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 104 (Samface):
>"One of the conditions was that Amiga Inc. wanted to decide the direction
>of the OS and the technology which was brought in by third parties. Their
>idea was that they had just paid almost 5 million dollars for the OS and
>that this entitled them to some degree of control."
I read that (not too carefully), but I couldn't resolve the complete meaning of it. (Who paid who here? :) )
So, SamFace, out from this text; Did Morphos or did Morphos not pay 5 million dollars? I wonder if they ever got that back, huh? Or perpaps it was the oppisite, maybe Amiga Inc paid 5 million for Morphos? I really can't figure it out. Sorry.
RS said in the morphos list once that they had no problems paying for (the name?) at a *reasonable* price. Something like that.
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 108 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by Anders Kjeldsen on 25-Apr-2002 09:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 105 (Frodon):
Come on, I'm just a little bored at work.. ;) No hard feelings here
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 109 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by Björn Hagström on 25-Apr-2002 09:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 82 (Anders Kjeldsen):
To Anders Kjeldsen and whomever might be tuning in.
The following is only my personal view and should be treated as just that. People will undoubtfully twist and turn it, be offended by it or whatever as they usually do, but anyway..
MorphOS was a good idea at the time, a really good idea, there were no real direction coming out from the 'official' owners and an underground effort to continue the legacy of the Amiga was a glorious task. A little david fighting goliat.

But things have changed, there is no longer an occupying force on the city ground. The underground movement to throw them out is no longer needed. But the underground freedom movement is still fighting, even though it's the citys own people that have resumed control. The movement becoming a parasite rather than a hope for freedom it once were.

We have a company that bought the rights for the OS and has the full intention to move it forward. Had they not been interrested in that, then I would have surely supported MorphOS to the teeth. But that is not how reality looks, even though there are more than enough paranoid people talking about conspiracys and whatnot, questioning the motives of the new owners.
Should MorphOS just drop the ball? Well, the people behind it are not stupid. They knew exactly what they were getting themselves into. It was a gamble from day one.
Sure, hypothetically a company like Microsoft could have bought the IP. Would that have been a good thing? Well, that depends on what their intentions would have been doesn't it. If their intention was to not continue the Amiga saga in a way of my liking, then I would definitly have supported an underground movement no matter if it had been illegal or not. As was stated earlier, what is illegal does not define what is immoral, and what is immoral does not define what is illegal. Legal matters does in no way affect my views of the situation.
But we don't have Microsoft holding the IP. An underground movement is not needed anymore. All it does is to parasite what it was once trying to save.
Is having two OS'es on the Amiga market good because competition is good? Well, if it was on equal terms and both were 'licensed' to continue the saga then perhaps. But that is not the case. We have one part that cashed a lot of doe to extend the life of what we all hold dear, and one part that is capitalising the same area for personal interrests without paying a dime for it. Thus to me, what that part is doing is nothing but immoral.
And as I said, these are my personal views. Don't get all worked up about it.
/Björn
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 110 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 25-Apr-2002 09:47 GMT
In reply to Comment 103 (Anders Kjeldsen):
Sure. Believe the words of some lame anonymous guy. FYI, I've never said such a thing. That lamer which obviously has no life on his own has posted the same crap atleast 15-20 times, rambling on about how I once showed a screenshot of my Workbench where he saw a "amirc.loader" icon. I adimtted having tried out a pirate copy of AmIRC once and explained that it remained less than a couple of weeks on my harddrive which is even NTFS formatted these days. However, this guy seriously needs to get a life on his own if he doesn't have better things to do than posting that same crap over and over again. What will he achieve by that? Will it make my points less valid? I'm sure I would find much more on this guy if he would only tell me his real name, which he obviously hasn't got the guts for.
Like I always say, mr. Anonymous doing personal attacks again...
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 111 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by AndersK@gangstah.net on 25-Apr-2002 09:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 110 (Samface):
I think you're taking this a bit too seriously :)
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 112 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 25-Apr-2002 09:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 109 (Björn Hagström):
Exactly my point earlier too. :) But they just won't quit, I guess they've grown attached to Morphos.
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 113 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 25-Apr-2002 09:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 107 (Anders Kjeldsen):
The sentence is obvious, Amiga Inc paid 5 million dollars for the OS. MorphOS has NOT paid for neither the brand or the rights for doing an official successor of the AmigaOS product line which they try to market their OS as.
That's the facts, end of story.
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 114 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 25-Apr-2002 09:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 111 (AndersK@gangstah.net):
I'm very serious when it comes to accusations directed to me in person.
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 115 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by David Scheibler on 25-Apr-2002 09:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 113 (Samface):
So what? You are just allowed to make products for the Amiga market if you paid
5million US$? Why should someone be so stuipid and pay 5million for a dead
system? SCNR.
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 116 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by Anders Kjeldsen on 25-Apr-2002 10:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 113 (Samface):
>The sentence is obvious, Amiga Inc paid 5 million dollars for the OS.
>MorphOS has NOT paid for neither the brand or the rights for doing an
>official successor of the AmigaOS product line which they try to market
>their OS as.
Oh, you mean.. they paid 5 million for the whole thing? I thought this was a transfer between Morphos and Amiga Inc. The sentence was poorly written in my opinion :)
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 117 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by gz on 25-Apr-2002 10:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 109 (Björn Hagström):
Tell me something. How can MOS or even AOS team parasite anyone!? Nobody is able to force people to buy the product they don't like! If they could, then you could call them parasites or something.
Like I've said before, if you dont like MOS don't support it. It's as simple as that. Same goes for those who don't like aos, support the os you like better.
And by the way, what's even the point of constantly arguing/finding arguments of this topic anyway? Everyone knows already the position of both camps (a little too well) And no matter how much you try to reason why MOS or AOS is bad, they still are going to get developed and there's nothing that you can do about it.
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 118 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by Anders Kjeldsen on 25-Apr-2002 10:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 109 (Björn Hagström):
>The following is only my personal view and should be treated as just that.
>People will undoubtfully twist and turn it, be offended by it or whatever
>as they usually do, but anyway..
Of course it's your personal view. But if you want to influence other people with YOUR view, then other people want to influence you with THEIR view. Get it ?

But things have changed, there is no longer an occupying force on the city ground. The underground movement to throw them out is no longer needed. But the underground freedom movement is still fighting, even though it's the citys own people that have resumed control. The movement becoming a parasite rather than a hope for freedom it once were.

Yes, fine. However, this is BUSINESS. There's money involved. Your metaphore is (IMHO) totally incomparable with the situation. The King has abandoned the city. He said "Screw you, I'm going... away".. It's like having a girl friend; You break up with her, and come back 10 years later... "Honey, I'm hooome!"..
>Should MorphOS just drop the ball? Well, the people behind it are not stupid.
>They knew exactly what they were getting themselves into. It was a gamble
>from day one.
Meaning? "Yes, they should" ? I don't think they "knew" what they were expecting. I dunno what they felt about it, but I don't think they were prepared for trouble. And that's probably why the strategy seems to have changed.
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 119 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by Anders Kjeldsen on 25-Apr-2002 10:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 117 (gz):
Damn, no more ANN... :)
You're right, but your enlightment doesn't cover my need for discussions :)
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 120 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by Lennart Fridén on 25-Apr-2002 10:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 102 (Anonymous):
*Moan* Talk about ripping things out of their proper context. Another thing that comes to mind is "the one who is free from sin...".
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 121 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by Björn Hagström on 25-Apr-2002 10:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 117 (gz):
>Tell me something. How can MOS or even AOS team parasite anyone!? Nobody is
>able to force people to buy the product they don't like! If they could, then
>you could call them parasites or something.
They are heading for basically the same market. Read the last paragraph.
>Like I've said before, if you dont like MOS don't support it. It's as simple
>as that. Same goes for those who don't like aos, support the os you like
>better.
I do not support MOS. Didn't I make myself clear about that? My comment was not about what OS I like best, it was about morality. Someone asked me a question and I answered it. And this without being angry or whatnot.
>And by the way, what's even the point of constantly arguing/finding arguments
>of this topic anyway? Everyone knows already the position of both camps (a
>little too well) And no matter how much you try to reason why MOS or AOS is
>bad, they still are going to get developed and there's nothing that you can
>do about it.
I am not finding arguments nor arguing. This has been my view of the situation from the first day when this clashing of the titans began. I just haven't shown my views of the situation in publicum before.
/Björn
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 122 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by Björn Hagström on 25-Apr-2002 10:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 118 (Anders Kjeldsen):
>Of course it's your personal view. But if you want to influence other people with YOUR view,
>then other people want to influence you with THEIR view. Get it ?
People can take my views anyway they like, I'm not here on a crusade to convince people on "the final and only truth". There are always a thousand ways to view a single issue.
>Yes, fine. However, this is BUSINESS. There's money involved. Your metaphore is (IMHO)
>totally incomparable with the situation. The King has abandoned the city. He said "Screw
>you, I'm going... away".. It's like having a girl friend; You break up with her, and come
>back 10 years later... "Honey, I'm hooome!"..
Then we simply have different oppinions about the matter.
>Meaning? "Yes, they should" ? I don't think they "knew" what they were expecting. I dunno
>what they felt about it, but I don't think they were prepared for trouble. And that's
>probably why the strategy seems to have changed.
It means that not dropping the ball keeps them in the immorality section.
And yes, the usual disclaimer applies on this message. Just venting my view of the situation.
/Björn
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 123 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 25-Apr-2002 10:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 66 (cheesegrate):
>i don't see anyone using MPC7450 or later other than apple.
Cisco?
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 124 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 25-Apr-2002 11:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 106 (Tony Gore):
>I'm talking about the existing PPC cards (which are in heritage of bPlan people)
>that by themselves cost more than a whole brand new system of any other platform.
So what? They were much more complex than a "simple" G4-on-a-card for Pegasos.
68030 accelerators were about 2500 Euro at first, were you also complaining back then?
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 125 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 25-Apr-2002 11:35 GMT
In reply to Comment 115 (David Scheibler):
You're not allowed to use the product brand or technology owned by someone else when marketing your own product. It's clear as chrystal, MorphOS was even announced as a next generation PPC AmigaOS and that announcement is still available at their website as of today. It's not about not allowing anyone making an Amiga product, it's about not infringing on someone else IP. Amiga Inc paid $5 million for this IP, why wouldn't they want to protect that investment? It's not like the MorphOS team never had the chance of either applying for a license to use that IP or even buy the rights for the IP themselves.
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 126 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 25-Apr-2002 11:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 125 (Samface):
>MorphOS was even announced as a next generation PPC AmigaOS
It was next-generation Amiga PPC OS.
>It's not about not allowing anyone making an Amiga product,
Who makes Amiga products?
>Amiga Inc paid $5 million for this IP, why wouldn't they want to protect that investment?
What exactly did they buy? Afaik it's doubtable they bought the OS, because Escom themselves
couldn't prove they actually owned it. The patent situation etc. is even more unclear.
>It's not like the MorphOS team never had the chance of either applying for a license to use
>that IP or even buy the rights for the IP themselves.
They are not using that IP, so why should they license it?
They had no chance to buy the rights, because they were not publicly for sale under Gateway.
Fleecy & Bill made a special deal.
Round and round and round it goes...
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 127 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by David Scheibler on 25-Apr-2002 11:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 125 (Samface):
>It's clear as chrystal, MorphOS was even announced as a next generation PPC
>AmigaOS and that announcement is still available at their website as of today
Learn to read.
"Today we announce the availability of a new Amiga next generation PowerPC
OS project, called MorphOS, to the public."
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 128 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by AlphaFoX on 25-Apr-2002 11:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 106 (Tony Gore):
>And so what if bPlan decide to charge $1195.00 USD for a G4 CPU upgrade for
>Pegasos....if you want it you pay the price
And so what if Eyetech decide to charge 1800 USD for a new motherboard with g4?
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 129 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 25-Apr-2002 11:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 126 (Anonymous):
Are you saying the Amiga is NOT a trademark of Amiga Inc? Are you saying that does NOT own the patents acquired during the Gateway era? Are you saying that Amiga Inc does NOT own the rights for AmigaOS3.9 which was even released by themselves?
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 130 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by dammy on 25-Apr-2002 11:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 84 (Samface):
Why spend the $5 million? Why for millions, if not tens of millions more in the great .com VC boom (now bust). It's all about money, and Amiga groupies for free.
Dammy
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 131 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by AlphaFoX on 25-Apr-2002 12:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 100 (Samface):
>If I remeber it correctly, wasn't Fleecy fired for beeing too innovative or
>something like that?
IIRC, the official reason was that he talked too much about in-house plans.
But IIRC again, that was not that long before Bill McEwan had to quit, and then Collas.
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 132 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 25-Apr-2002 12:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 130 (dammy):

Yeah, why make your product legal? Why pay taxes? Why buy things when you can steal?
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 133 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by David Scheibler on 25-Apr-2002 12:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 132 (Samface):
You don't have to buy anything to create an API compatible OS (except for
example the Amiga guru book :)).
But I'm sure you already installed OS4.loader, right?
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 134 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 25-Apr-2002 12:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 131 (AlphaFoX):
Yes, Jim Collas. I liked his dramatic way of showing his disappointment in Gateway; quit his job and sold all his Gateway shares valued at several milion dollars. :-)))
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 135 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 25-Apr-2002 12:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 133 (David Scheibler):
LOL! Please don't degrade yourself to the level of that poor anonymous guy...
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 136 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 25-Apr-2002 12:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 133 (David Scheibler):
No, but if you want to use the brand recognition of sombody else trademark...
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 137 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 25-Apr-2002 12:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 121 (Björn Hagström):
>I do not support MOS. Didn't I make myself clear about that? My comment was not
>about what OS I like best, it was about morality.
I love to hear people talking about morality. Those are the ones who don't practice it themselves.
I dunno what your profession is, but you should quit your job and become a preacher.
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 138 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by AlphaFoX on 25-Apr-2002 12:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 129 (Samface):
It's not "next generation PPC AmigaOS" nor "Amigas next generation OS" but "Amiga next generation PowerPC OS project". While the first two would indeed indicate that it's either a new Version of AmigaOS or a new OS by Amiga, the version used just means that this new OS can run on (some) Amiga Computers.
Linux isn't (wasn't) a "next generation x86 Windows", nor "Microsofts new generation x86 OS", but a "new x86 OS".
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 139 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by David Scheibler on 25-Apr-2002 12:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 136 (Samface):
Where does bplan use that?
If I read the dev docs I can read A-Box, A-BoxOS and similar stuff...
Are you saying that you aren't allowed to say that you can run applications written for AmigaOS(r)?
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 140 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 25-Apr-2002 12:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 129 (Samface):
>Are you saying the Amiga is NOT a trademark of Amiga Inc?
Nope, Amiga is their trademark.
>Are you saying that does NOT own the patents acquired during the Gateway era?
Exactly. Gateway owns the patents.
>Are you saying that Amiga Inc does NOT own the rights for AmigaOS3.9 which was
>even released by themselves?
I'm very unsure about that one. Hyperion requested OS3.9 sources, but H&P didn't
hand them out. I think OS3.9 is property of H&P, but I may be wrong - anyone knows
more?
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 141 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 25-Apr-2002 12:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 132 (Samface):

Yeah, why Samface need brain? Can goodie-well post on ann without one.
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 142 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by AlphaFoX on 25-Apr-2002 12:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 134 (Samface):
"Yes, Jim Collas. I liked his dramatic way of showing his disappointment in Gateway; quit his job and sold all his Gateway shares valued at several milion dollars. :-)))"
Yeah, that's a nice way. Mostly very nice for him, anyway ;-)
I remember that I wasn't really able to decide if I should find the Linux way a good way or not (seems that I have a history of disagreement with the official Amiga way ;-), but then the picture of the AmigaMCC (or MMC?) won me...
I also was on the Amiga Forum, and made a suggestion for a new slogan:
"Amiga - Because we know where you were yesterday" and "Amiga - Open your Windows, let fresh air in" I still like them, although I'm now more on the MOS side... :-)
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 143 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by Nicolas Sallin on 25-Apr-2002 12:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 140 (Anonymous):
AmigaInc had the possibility to buy back (as use to say Mr Hermans)
3.9 from H&P but never did it.
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 144 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by Björn Hagström on 25-Apr-2002 12:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 137 (Anonymous):
Ahh, the bright side of the Amiga Community has spoken.
Did you not read the disclaimer? Obviously you did not.
/Björn
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 145 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 25-Apr-2002 12:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 138 (AlphaFoX):
An AmigaOS project is an AmigaOS project, do they have the rights for such an "Amiga brand" project? The fact that it is next-generation or PPC doesn't make things better either, on the contrary, it infringes Amiga Inc's IP even more.
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 146 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 25-Apr-2002 13:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 140 (Anonymous):
Get your facts straight, Amiga Inc AND Gateway owns the patents.
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 147 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 25-Apr-2002 13:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 145 (Samface):
It's a PPC OS project and no AmigaOS project! :-)
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 148 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 25-Apr-2002 13:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 146 (Samface):
No, Gateway kept the patents, but AInc got a license to use them.
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 149 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 25-Apr-2002 13:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 143 (Nicolas Sallin):
That's talking about the sources of AmigaOS3.9, Amiga Inc still has the rights for the name and the product. The OS3.9 sources are pretty much useless to H&P without a license from Amiga Inc which this Amithlon affair proved.
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 150 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 25-Apr-2002 13:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 148 (Anonymous):
Which gives Amiga Inc the rught to use those patents, your point beeing?
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