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[News] AFUA visited Thendic-FranceANN.lu
Posted on 24-Apr-2002 15:30 GMT by Teemu I. Yliselä629 comments
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The French Amiga user group AFUA visited the Thendic-France headquarters and met with Bill Buck and the Coyote Flux guys. Read their report here.
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 201 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by David Scheibler on 25-Apr-2002 15:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 200 (Samface):
>That's why Bleem! is legal but UAE is not.
There are Amiga versions of UAE available that run without a ROM file. Are these illegal IYO?
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 202 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by Kronos on 25-Apr-2002 15:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 201 (David Scheibler):
Lass gut sein David, hoffnungsloser Fall von
Schnee-City-Blindheit.
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 203 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 25-Apr-2002 15:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 201 (David Scheibler):
My opinion has nothing to do with it. If it *depends* on the ROM, it's illegal. A complete reverse engineered ROM would be legal (in some countries that is).
Just to add a little to the flames before I leave for the day; reverse engineering is NOT legal in the European Union. Think about it.
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 204 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by Ole-Egil Hvitmyren on 25-Apr-2002 15:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 162 (Anonymous):
It would help if he showed his face and/or removed the voice-scrambler.
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 205 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 25-Apr-2002 15:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 202 (Kronos):
LOL! Well, I gave you the facts. Prove me wrong, give me viable arguments, or whatever. Just don't resort to desperate personal insults like that, it's only degrading noone but yourself.
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 206 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 25-Apr-2002 15:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 204 (Ole-Egil Hvitmyren):
You have my nickname, my e-mail and my IP, what else do you need?
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 207 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by Ole-Egil Hvitmyren on 25-Apr-2002 15:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 206 (Samface):
Not you, nitwit :)
The anonymous guy in Hyde Park that I was gonna take seriously. :)
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 208 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by Ole-Egil Hvitmyren on 25-Apr-2002 15:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 207 (Ole-Egil Hvitmyren):
Or wherever Speakers Corner is...
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 209 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by Teemu Suikki on 25-Apr-2002 15:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 203 (Samface):
Samface, you may not believe this, but you are wrong. By continuing
the arguing you simply make yourself look more stupid.
Every Amiga program uses AmigaOS ROM. It is not illegal, that's why
the ROM is there for.
There are some programs that replace (patch) parts of the ROM. For
example MCP and such commodities. They are not illegal.
The public morphos release is started from AmigaOS, just like any
other AmigaOS program. Sure it replaces some of ROM code with PPC
native stuff, but that's not any more special than what's MCP is
doing.
Your "law quotation" is for different thing. It means emulators that
run on different hardware.. For example, to run UAE on Windows, you
need a copy of Amiga ROM, and getting that is illegal. Running UAE on
Amiga is legal, because you don't need a ROM file.
--
Teemu
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 210 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by Kronos on 25-Apr-2002 15:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 205 (Samface):
Last one here:
1.The current MOS-beta is loaded like any other app.
2.MOS "removes" Kick3.1 and replaces it with its own code.
3.MOS initiates a warm reboot.
4.The MOS-kick-replacment is started (instead of the ROM)
If AInc would think it is illegal to run the current MOS
on Amigas they would go to court now, and not wait for
the Pegasos-release.
Why ?
Everybody who buys a Pegasos before the legal action will
be extremly pissed-off to AInc->One potential AOS4-buyer
lost.
During the trial-period a lot of people will keep their
money in their pocket and won't buy a Pegasos or A1.
If AInc loses (very likely) even more people will be pissed-
off (definitly more than after a lost trial now).
If they win (very unlikely) their won't be able to cut any
deal with bPlan and will be left with A1 as their only
chance, while if they would win now bPlan may still be
cooperative enough to strike a deal.
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 211 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 25-Apr-2002 16:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 205 (Samface):
>Just don't resort to desperate personal insults like that
What personal insults, du bleede Sonneblume! :-D
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 212 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 25-Apr-2002 16:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 211 (Anonymous):
(insider gag)
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 213 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by Graham on 25-Apr-2002 16:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 162 (Anonymous):
I am quite easy to track down in the Amiga community, posting on Yahoo! groups, c.s.a.m (must ... battle ... SG ...) and so on. So I am not exactly hiding.
Anyway, a speaker at speakers corner can speak all he wants, but if he is "trolling" or insulting the listeners, then if they decide to beat him up then he is done for!
Online it is so easy to troll and insult anonymously without getting any retribution.
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 214 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by ikez on 25-Apr-2002 16:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 162 (Anonymous):
simple,
Without a name, u take a bad reputation. U just can't stand your opinion. That's a little easy. And if by your place, works, ... u can't speak or write just respect that, don't speak or write.
anonymous post is just a "coward" or "displaced" way (displaced by the fact that u have a situation where u can't post)
ikez
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 215 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 25-Apr-2002 16:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 213 (Graham):
>Anyway, a speaker at speakers corner can speak all he wants, but if he is
>"trolling" or insulting the listeners, then if they decide to beat him up
>then he is done for!
Nice picture, the Amiga lynchmob beats someone up because they disagree with
his/her opinion. I must say I like that.
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 216 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 25-Apr-2002 16:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 209 (Teemu Suikki):
So, are you saying that MorphOS is running ontop of the AmigaROM, ontop of the AmigaOS, just like any other app? Are you denying that MorphOS uses any kind of dump of the original AmigaROM when launching the AmigaOS?
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 217 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by Johan "Graak" Forsberg on 25-Apr-2002 16:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 213 (Graham):
At least 10% of all post on the AmigaOne mailinglist are probably yours =)
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 218 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by Graham on 25-Apr-2002 16:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 210 (Kronos):
ISTR Ben or someone saying that Amiga Inc couldn't take action until something was officially released or available for sale.
BTW, I also don't think that the current MorphOS beta on classic/PPC Amiga hardware is illegal - the user already has a licensed ROM of course!
I also think that Amiga Inc have a right to protect the IP, trademarks, etc, that they purchased a couple of years ago. How this applies to MorphOS I don't know. I don't see bPlan saying "MorphOS is the next generation AmigaOS!", although I don't remember everything that was said in the past.
The only other reason I can think of is the "XYZ at bPlan saw a significant amount of the AmigaOS3.x sourcecode in the past, thus their cleanroom reverse engineering of AmigaOS functions for the ABox environment is not cleanroom, and thus illegal".
Until Amiga Inc initiate legal action, I don't think any of us will really know the reasons that Amiga Inc think that MorphOS running on Pegasos would be illegal. So lets wait, eh?
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 219 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by Teemu Suikki on 25-Apr-2002 16:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 216 (Samface):
Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. There is no "rom dump" used in
morphos, it uses the ROM which you already have in your Amiga.
--
Teemu
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 220 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by gz on 25-Apr-2002 16:58 GMT
I believe that MOS team will never be able to strike a deal with AI unless some kind of legal compromise is presented by AI.
It's obvious that MOS team don't want to give control of their project to AI.
They started their OS project way back when nobody even knew we would someday get a ppc os for amiga. Back then AI wasn't doing anything and happily let MOS team do their work without getting bothered. Only know when AI wants to control what's happening on the amiga market, they have developed a problem with MOS.
Untill this they have let MOS ppl be under the impression it's ok to work on it.
I hate the situation and I even understand AI's position as it's very good for them if they have some control over the market, but I can very well understand the position of MOS team aswell. If I had been coding and giving myself up 100% for years under the impression there are no legal problems for me to develop my work, I wouldn't give in either if suddenly someone would start trouble out of it. Especially when it's been ok for this "someone" for me to do my work for years.
people attack MOS because they feel betrayed by it, while I think AI should have made a clear legal statement aeons ago. They fucked up and caused this situation to get this far by not stepping up on the mos issue a loooong time ago.
I think they did it because they were hopefull they could partner with MOS ppl when the os would evolve to a point where it could be seen if it has future or not. Also history shows this as AI DID contact MOS team and asked if they could make "os4" out of MOS together. RS refused because all work was done by themselves and hadn't ever received anykind of help from AI for the project so they thought: WTF are these guys trying to get advantage of our work now?
I'm very much making it simpler than it is, but I believe this is MOS team's stand on the case and I can't say I blame them for that. However I think RS is too proud and should realize it would be better for EVERYONE if they could resolve this situation.
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 221 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 25-Apr-2002 17:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 219 (Teemu Suikki):
Ignore my opinions for a second and read this again:
"Regardless of which form you use, there is no way to get at the machine data code stored within the ROM once it is burned into those little black rectangles of silica and metal unless you come up with a way to download it from the chip itself. Downloading in this case refers to some kind of special interface linked to the ROM itself whereby its internal code can then be "dumped." The result is object code in software instead of hardware, which is easier by far for a developer to work with."
An officially released product (which the downloadable version of MorphOS is considered as) is illegal if it uses any kind of dump of the original ROM, and from what I can tell by this statement there is no other way of accessing the ROM without doing this.
Please note that I'm not posting my opinion here, it's the facts. If you think they are wrong, prove them wrong.
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 222 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 25-Apr-2002 17:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 220 (gz):
"They started their OS project way back when nobody even knew we would someday get a ppc os for amiga."
Don't make them sound so innocent. They should've acquired the rights for doing this before "taking things into their own hands".

Would it be right to do a lynch mob because the police hasn't found the killer yet? No. If you want to help, send your application to the police academy...
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 223 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by gz on 25-Apr-2002 17:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 221 (Samface):
I'm not trying to knock your post out I'm just curious of these 2 things:
How do we know if there is anything left of the original amiga os ROM file on morphOS? what if they have made their own by now?
Also I have been under the impression that UAE is legal (I don't know 100% sure)
How can this be then as it too needs the original ROM files to emulate amiga?
What if MOS team decides they won't make a commercial product out of MOS and decide they will just ship it with pegasos for free? would AI then have a legal position on mos?
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 224 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by Casey R Williams on 25-Apr-2002 17:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 221 (Samface):
Wait a second... Am I supposed to believe that the Pegasos needs an Amiga 3.1 ROM to run MorphOS? Given the existance of things like Wine and Lindows, I'd imagine that an Amiga-like OS could surely be written from scratch...
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 225 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by Leki on 25-Apr-2002 17:23 GMT
heh the arguing got boring when the rom talk started :)
wondering something about the pegasos though...
The G3 cpu it comes with will be in its CPU slot right?
if you wanted to buy a dual G3 cpu you will have to remove the G3 cpu thats already in it and replace it with the new one right?
are these cpu upgrades for the pegasos only made by bplan or are they some standard cpu upgrade you can buy from a number of places?
anyway my AmigaOne dev board should be with me in a few days :)
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 226 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by Graham on 25-Apr-2002 17:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 223 (gz):
UAE itself isn't illegal as long as it is not shipped with ROMs or OS, unless they are licenced.
I don't know whether a software implementation of the functionality included in the custom chipset is illegal - I don't think there is anything there that is patented or unique anyway.
Take Shapeshifter - in itself not illegal, and not illegal if you used legal versions of MacOS and ROMs. Of course it had it easier than UAE because there was no 68k emulation or custom hardware emulation - it just had to provide a view of the Amiga hardware that MacOS thought was Mac hardware :)
And how does this relate to the alleged illegality of MorphOS on Pegasos? I don't think it does, I think the issue is different. Unless MorphOS reimplements anything that is patented in AmigaOS of course, but I think nothing of this sort has been implemented?
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 227 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by Christophe Decanini on 25-Apr-2002 17:27 GMT
"Question 1.9. Does FUSION require ROMs and system software from Apple?
Yes! The only way to obtain near 100% compatibility is by using the original Apple software (ROMs and system software). Please remember that you MUST own the ROMs and system software. ROMs are easily obtained through repair centers & internet auctions. We provide software to run on your real Macintosh that will dump the ROM contents to a disk file, which is then used by FUSION (you don't actually need the ROMs in your PC).
Please do not pirate the ROMs. Do not go to your local library, Kinkos, or anywhere else that has a Macintosh just sitting around, and grab the ROM image. This is illegal!"
Is it applicable to the Amiga ?
Anyway this is only a question for the public beta (that is more than 1 year old) as MorphOS won't use any Amiga ROM on the Pegasos.
This beta is not a commercial released software and even if it was:
I have a licensed ROM on my Amiga so I can use whatever OS that take advantage of the ROM.
Amiga can not dictate what OS I have to run with my Amiga hardware.
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 228 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by Joe "Floid" Kanowitz on 25-Apr-2002 17:29 GMT
Wow, another technical question out of me. Hopefully it won't be totally lost in the noise...
Someone pointed out the use of a seperate network card on the Pegasos system. A few others (given my quick search of the messages) guessed that drivers might've been a problem, or that Thendic were using a gigabit card for the fun of it.
I had another peek at FreeBSD's manpage for its Realtek drivers, and noticed it referred to the notoriously misengineered RTL8129/8139, but not the RTL8201 listed on the Pegasos specsheet.
A run over to Realtek, and a look at http://www.realtek.com.tw/htm/products/cn/rtl8201l.asp proves the 8201 is only a PHY (and presumably, something they didn't screw up) - a transceiver, and one with many handy features, but not the MAC, or processor- what we conventionally consider the ethernet chipset.
I had a quick look at the Via 8231 southbridge- no MAC there, so far as I could tell. Nothing's hiding in the Via 6306- it's everything needed for Firewire and nothing more. Same goes for the audio chipset.
So.. while I'm getting a feeling of deja vu here... where's the MAC?
[No "MAC clone" jokes, please. ;)]
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 229 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 25-Apr-2002 17:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 223 (gz):
"Also I have been under the impression that UAE is legal (I don't know 100% sure)
How can this be then as it too needs the original ROM files to emulate
amiga? "
UAE itself is legal. Running it on a computer without owning a legal
ROM image is not legal. You get a legal ROM image by buying one from
Cloanto. Once you have the ROM, you can do what you like with the UAE
code, which emulates the A500 hardware.
In most developed countries, only the Cloanto version of UAE is fully
legal.
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 230 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by gz on 25-Apr-2002 17:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 222 (Samface):
I'm sorry sam as your metaphor suxx bigtime and can't really be compared seriously to the AI vs MOS extravaganza.
Let me give you another metaphor to make you see why:
If there was a childmolester/murderer caught redhanded by a mob of people who had been terrorized by this individual for years, and the police wouldn't had done anything about him as they had other agendas of more importance to them.
Suddenly cops would get interested as these ppl would have done all the work for them. The cops would come and take the molester away and he would get a 5 year sentence out of which he would be out on parole after doing 3 years. As for the ppl who caught him, they would be put on trial and accused of taking the law on their own hands and some of them would do time for protecting themselves.
Would you testify against these ppl in court, if they had beaten the molester to scare him off their neighbourhood? on who's side would you be? sometimes the law is blind and is not there to help us when we need it even if we had been victims, because not everything that goes wrong in this world can be added to the law.
Not very good metaphor is it?
My point is that you can't take such metaphors of real life horrors and apply them onto the small battle thats going on between two software companies. Of course you can make a point with such a metaphor (which you did) but it won't be a good or practical way to do it.
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 231 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by Graham on 25-Apr-2002 17:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 228 (Joe "Floid" Kanowitz):
It is in the southbridge (VIA 8221).
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 232 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by Anders Kjeldsen on 25-Apr-2002 18:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 220 (gz):
Nice post, I agree to a lot of it. I mean, a lot of it seems to make sense to me.
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 233 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by Tony Gore on 25-Apr-2002 19:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 124 (Anonymous):
"So what? They were much more complex than a "simple" G4-on-a-card for Pegasos.
68030 accelerators were about 2500 Euro at first, were you also complaining back then?"
Nope...My A3k came with an 030 in it :)
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 234 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by Tony Gore on 25-Apr-2002 19:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 128 (AlphaFoX):
"And so what if Eyetech decide to charge 1800 USD for a new motherboard with g4?
"
Then nobody would buy it. And I'm confident that Eyetech have better sense than that. But I was making a point of the way Phase5 charged for their product (still to this day they are damn expensive)...They had no competition, and could charge what ever they wanted. If bPlan can venture away from those old traits, then great. I would hate to see them make that same mistake again ((they are the only source for CPU upgrades for the Pegasos so they could charge outrageous prices)
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 235 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 25-Apr-2002 19:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 200 (Samface):
Since when is UAE illegal? Come on, enlight me...
The law states that usingand distributing the rom is illegal.
That's why all emulators come with *NO* rom and have a huge
disclaimer that using the emulator with any roms you don't have
legal rights on (ie, own the ORIGINAL chip) is *ILLEGAL*.
Put that in your... brain.
The legality of MorphOS can only be judged by a person with legal
knowledge, not anyone like you or me. Put that one in your... brain, too.
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 236 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 25-Apr-2002 19:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 221 (Samface):
I doubt that you actually think before you type...
Whatever can be read, can be stored as well...
If you couldn't "get" the data in the rom, well...
what's the point of it? It would be illegal to read
anything off a rom, so a rom would be a useless piece of silicon.
Why would you even use a *storage device* that you're unable
to read from?
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 237 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by Graham on 25-Apr-2002 19:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 236 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
> Why would you even use a *storage device* that you're unable
> to read from?
Sounds like modern floppy disks to me :)
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 238 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by Leif on 25-Apr-2002 20:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 234 (Tony Gore):
---snip---
Then nobody would buy it. And I'm confident that Eyetech have better sense than that. But I was making a point of the way Phase5 charged for their product (still to this day they are damn expensive)...They had no competition, and
---snip---
Therey are the only ones making them, so how do you mesure ?
And it is outdated parts used, probably expensive to get em.
---snip---
could charge what ever they wanted. If bPlan can venture away from those old traits, then great. I would hate to see them make that same mistake again ((they are the only source for CPU upgrades for the Pegasos so they could charge outrageous prices)
---snip---
Yes, they are evil and that is their plan, to charge large amounts
for the cpu-upgrade, you have found out all about it, congratulations.
Leif
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 239 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 25-Apr-2002 20:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 225 (Leki):
>if you wanted to buy a dual G3 cpu you will have to remove the G3 cpu thats already in it and replace it with the new one right?
You don't want to buy dual-G3.
>are these cpu upgrades for the pegasos only made by bplan or are they some standard cpu upgrade you can buy from a number of places?
Made by bplan, but I think other could made modules for that slot, too. The only question is: who would venture such a project?
The Mac accelerator manufacturers don't do new ones - and that may be a much bigger market than Pegasos (at the beginning :-).
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 240 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by Tony Gore on 25-Apr-2002 21:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 238 (Leif):
"Therey are the only ones making them, so how do you mesure ?
And it is outdated parts used, probably expensive to get em. "
No, they are not making them, just purchasing the product run from a manufacturer of the boards. And the parts are no more outdated than the Pegasos.
"Yes, they are evil and that is their plan, to charge large amounts
for the cpu-upgrade, you have found out all about it, congratulations.
Leif"
That is your words Leif, I never said that they were evil. Seems to me that you are the one who has figured something out. I didn't even say that they WOULD charge high prices for the G4, just that it's one possible outcome of buying from ex-phase5 folk. And correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the phase5 people do something to the flash rom on the old PPC cards to try and block WarpUP from running on it? (I may indeed be VERY wrong on that one, but I recall something of a fuss back then) They always seem to be at odds with any Amiga affiliated company who doesn't do things their way (of course they were Phase5 then, maybe bPlan _IS_ different). That has nothing to do with whether the hardware is good or not. If you look at my earlier posts, I said that if the Pegasos ran OS4 I would prefer to buy it for it's flexability. But if it doesn't, then I'll buy an A1. They are practically the same specs at start anyway, except the Pegasos does add Firewire (which I don't even need) and is a bit more expandable.
I guess the whole point was if the G4 upgrade card winds up costing as much as a new A1 motherboard with G4 on it, the whole "CPU Slot" idea is a waste anyway. I don't have a REAL preference over either board. But if I have a choice (which at this time I don't, because I want to run Amiga OS4) I would choose Pegasos. Once again I'll say, let's hope that both sides (Amiga AND bPlan) get things worked out to an agreeable point.
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 241 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by Leki on 25-Apr-2002 21:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 239 (Anonymous):
well i just used that as an example.....so buying a cpu upgrade would prolly cost alot since only bplan make them....same situation as the ppc cards that were released for the classic miggys.
i`m glad i went with the AmigaOne.....sure it does have the cpu soldered on but when i upgrade to a faster processor i would want a new motherboard too with the lastest advances on it (faster interfaces, lastest memory type slots etc).
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 242 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by Tony Gore on 25-Apr-2002 21:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 238 (Leif):
"Therey are the only ones making them, so how do you mesure ?
And it is outdated parts used, probably expensive to get em. "
No, they are not making them, just purchasing the product run from a manufacturer of the boards. And the parts are no more outdated than the Pegasos.
"Yes, they are evil and that is their plan, to charge large amounts
for the cpu-upgrade, you have found out all about it, congratulations.
Leif"
That is your words Leif, I never said that they were evil. Seems to me that you are the one who has figured something out. I didn't even say that they WOULD charge high prices for the G4, just that it's one possible outcome of buying from ex-phase5 folk. And correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the phase5 people do something to the flash rom on the old PPC cards to try and block WarpUP from running on it? (I may indeed be VERY wrong on that one, but I recall something of a fuss back then) They always seem to be at odds with any Amiga affiliated company who doesn't do things their way (of course they were Phase5 then, maybe bPlan _IS_ different). That has nothing to do with whether the hardware is good or not. If you look at my earlier posts, I said that if the Pegasos ran OS4 I would prefer to buy it for it's flexability. But if it doesn't, then I'll buy an A1. They are practically the same specs at start anyway, except the Pegasos does add Firewire (which I don't even need) and is a bit more expandable.
I guess the whole point was if the G4 upgrade card winds up costing as much as a new A1 motherboard with G4 on it, the whole "CPU Slot" idea is a waste anyway. I don't have a REAL preference over either board. But if I have a choice (which at this time I don't, because I want to run Amiga OS4) I would choose Pegasos. Once again I'll say, let's hope that both sides (Amiga AND bPlan) get things worked out to an agreeable point.
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 243 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by Tony Gore on 25-Apr-2002 21:58 GMT
damn...sorry for the double post.
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 244 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by Leki on 25-Apr-2002 22:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 240 (Tony Gore):
tony said...
"I said that if the Pegasos ran OS4 I would prefer to buy it for it's flexability. But if it doesn't, then I'll buy an A1. They are practically the same specs at start anyway, except the Pegasos does add Firewire (which I don't even need) and is a bit more expandable."
well the AmigaOne has more Pci slots :)....i dont need firewire either but if i did need it i could always use one of the spare pci slots for a firewire card. :)
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 245 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by gz on 25-Apr-2002 22:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 222 (Samface):
>>Don't make them sound so innocent. They should've acquired the rights for doing this before "taking things into their own hands".
I don't know if this has anything to do with the beginning of mos but it could be related:
"...on March 10th 1998 by the announcement that phase 5 had licensed the AmigaOS and were developing the Pre/Box- an AmigaOS 3.1 compatible computer that would use a 68k and 4 PowerPC processors."
That was a snippet of amiga history in 1998 taken from amiga emugaming.com
So you see we really don't know even if they originally HAD rights to start a project like mos as it was started early 1998. Also the amiga inc. was owned by gateway at that time and they lacked a direction with amiga and were probably happy to licence the rights of amigaos to p5.
Things aren't necessarily always as straightforward and simple with these MOS vs AI legalities.
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 246 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 25-Apr-2002 23:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 240 (Tony Gore):
>I guess the whole point was if the G4 upgrade card winds up costing as much as a new A1 motherboard with G4 on it
How _could_ someone get such an idea is really beyond me...
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 247 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by Leif on 26-Apr-2002 00:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 242 (Tony Gore):
---snip---
That is your words Leif, I never said that they were evil. Seems to me that you are the one who has figured something out. I didn't even say that they WOULD charge high prices for the G4, just that it's one possible outcome of buying from ex-phase5 folk. And correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the phase5 people do something to the flash rom on the old PPC cards to try and block WarpUP from running on it? (I may indeed be VERY wrong on that one, but I recall something of a fuss back then)
---snip---
Yep, reacalling that is true. That was a little bit evil.
But why not really. They produced the cards.
I may be wrong on this one, but as I recall it,
PowerUP could not function when WarpUP was activated.
---snip---
They always seem to be at odds with any Amiga affiliated company who doesn't do things their way (of course they were Phase5 then, maybe bPlan _IS_ different). That has nothing to do with whether the hardware is good or not. If you look at my earlier posts, I said that if the Pegasos ran OS4 I would prefer to buy it for it's flexability. But if it doesn't, then I'll buy an A1. They are practically the same specs at start anyway, except the Pegasos does add Firewire (which I don't even need) and is a bit more expandable.
---snip---
Well, Im broke so I dont think about it :)
---snip---
I guess the whole point was if the G4 upgrade card winds up costing as much as a new A1 motherboard with G4 on it, the whole "CPU Slot" idea is a waste anyway. I don't have a REAL preference over either board. But if I have a choice (which at this time I don't, because I want to run Amiga OS4) I would choose Pegasos. Once again I'll say, let's hope that both sides (Amiga AND bPlan) get things worked out to an agreeable point.
The slot could just be something for bplans own needs.
Like having just one board, and ship with different cpus
for different customers. As the boards are equal in price anyway,
who cares ? The slot just adds. And how could the slotted G4 cost as much
as AOneBoard+G4 ??? Right now the slotG3+Pegasos costs less
that soldered G3+Aoneboard. Do some thinking :) Rather the other way
around as the AOne board have to be redone from near scratch
to support the G4 cpu.
Currently it looks like they will sort things out with the aid of
a judge. :)
Leif
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 248 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 26-Apr-2002 04:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 223 (gz):
Cloanto, for example, uses UAE and is legal. How can that be, you might ask. Well, simple; they got a license from Amiga Inc for this. So, MorphOS would be legal if they just got a license, which they don't. I don't know if Phase5 had one but it doesn't matter really, as a license simply can't be passed on to someone else unless their license specificly stated that they had the right to do so.
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 249 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 26-Apr-2002 05:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 224 (Casey R Williams):
The current officially released version of MorphOS uses the AmigaROM for launching the AmigaOS, just like UAE. MorphOS in itself doesn't require it, it's the AmigaOS which they run ontop of their Quark kernel that does. Sure, they're probably working on a reverse engineered version but that doesn't change the fact that their officially released version still as of today requires the AmigaROM.
AFUA visited Thendic-France : Comment 250 of 629ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 26-Apr-2002 05:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 226 (Graham):
That's a myth. Read all about the Sony vs Bleem! case and you'll see why.
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