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[News] Help required with OS 4 manualsANN.lu
Posted on 12-May-2002 11:44 GMT by Ben Hermans/Hyperion115 comments
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Hyperion is looking for outside help with writing manuals. We're looking for a native English speaker who can assist us with writing the manual for our powerful HDToolbox replacement for OS 4. Any candidates must know what a partition is, what an Rigid Disk Block is and some details about mounting an FS under Amiga. Additional assests would be knowledge about the most important fields of the partition and filesystem structures. If you are interested in giving us a hand, please contact me.
Help required with OS 4 manuals : Comment 1 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by Ole-Egil Hvitmyren on 12-May-2002 09:50 GMT
Heh, I actually know more native english speakers who cann't write proper english than norwegians who can't... Good luck ;)
Help required with OS 4 manuals : Comment 2 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 12-May-2002 09:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Ole-Egil Hvitmyren):
Well okay then, I meant that you must really have a good grasp of English.
If you remember the rather peculiar English companies like Phase 5 used, you know what I mean.
Help required with OS 4 manuals : Comment 3 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by Nicolas Mendoza on 12-May-2002 10:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
Tried to ask ATO about this? Or isn't this a translation? Even if it isn't they tend to deliver. How about new translations for OS4.0 ?
Help required with OS 4 manuals : Comment 4 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by anon on 12-May-2002 10:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
Very professional Ben. Well done.
You need someone to write docs for your *powerful* (lol) HDToolbox?
Help required with OS 4 manuals : Comment 5 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by cOrpse on 12-May-2002 10:53 GMT
Depends how much detail is needed ... If its just a sorta outline user manual i could probaly knock something up .. but if its an in depth 180 page program manual maybe not :).
/me goes back to writting Docs for this sh*tty database.
Help required with OS 4 manuals : Comment 6 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by Ole-Egil Hvitmyren on 12-May-2002 10:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (anon):
I have no idea why you find that funny. If it's a great progam, it's a geeat program. HDToolBox sure beats fdisk et co under other OS'es...
Help required with OS 4 manuals : Comment 7 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by anon on 12-May-2002 11:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Ole-Egil Hvitmyren):
Read Bens post again. They did a hdtoolbox replacement. I'm sure you haven't seen it and so cannot say, if it's any better than fdisk.
I find it rather funny to see something like "powerful" in a job description. Like if he hadn't written it, the number of ppl applying for the job could be half or less.
Help required with OS 4 manuals : Comment 8 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by KenH on 12-May-2002 11:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (anon):
>I find it rather funny to see something like "powerful" in a job description. Like if he hadn't written it, the number of ppl applying for the job could be half or less.
I don't see how that's funny either. If he wants people to write a manual about it, he's hardly going to say it's a piece of shit. It's all about marketing....you should look it up. The powerful bit is his opinion obviously but ultimately, it's up to the person applying to decide if it's worth writing about. God I don't know why I'm writing this basic stuff...and to an anon.
Help required with OS 4 manuals : Comment 9 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by The Editor on 12-May-2002 11:23 GMT
The point is ................
Hyperion have FINISHED another piece of the jigsaw !!
AO4 is almost upon us.
Sorry I cant help you Ben. Its been that long since I needed to do anything that drastic to my Amiga that I've forgotten how !!
Help required with OS 4 manuals : Comment 10 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 12-May-2002 11:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 9 (The Editor):
I've already got somebody willing to take on the job. Thanks!
The reason why I wrote "powerful" is because it is indeed a hell of a lot more powerful than HDToolbox which also means that the documentation will need to be a lot more extensive.
Considering that we are dealing with a very sensitive issue here (your harddisk partitions), I'm sure you will agree that the documentation must be indepth.
To the guy complaining that it is somehow not professional to appeal to the Amiga community for help, please note that the OS 4 team consists of some 30 developers and that developers are not the best people to write documentation for two reasons:
1) they know their product too well which means they tend to take things for granted;
2) they need to develop and not write documentation.
Besides, there's plenty of talent out there, why wouldn't we tap into it?
Help required with OS 4 manuals : Comment 11 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by Daniel Allsopp on 12-May-2002 12:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
Ben,
Will this documentation actually be part of a "printed" manual or just an Amiga Guide document on the CD? I think a top class piece of software like AOS4 needs to be in a big box with a proper manual. MHO of course :-)
Sorry if this has been asked before.
-
Daniel
Help required with OS 4 manuals : Comment 12 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by KenH on 12-May-2002 12:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
>Besides, there's plenty of talent out there, why wouldn't we tap into it?
That's right and that's something Amiga/Hyperion have been accused of not doing before. It's good to see them giving work to the community who have stood by the Amiga.
Help required with OS 4 manuals : Comment 13 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by redrumloa on 12-May-2002 12:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (anon):
YAAC(Yet Another Anonymous Coward)
Help required with OS 4 manuals : Comment 14 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by Hagge on 12-May-2002 12:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
i'm not complaining but isn't this the resone for why you always should write down what the program should do then the user does something.. and a test plan which you can use then the program is coded to see it if actually did that you expected from the begining+
Help required with OS 4 manuals : Comment 15 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by Nicolas Sallin on 12-May-2002 12:58 GMT
So, are there 31 AmigaOS4 developers now ?
Help required with OS 4 manuals : Comment 16 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by A Trucker who uses Amigas on 12-May-2002 12:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (Hagge):
Well, I guess people work in different ways. I'm a truck driver, When I'm given a destination (if I dont know it), I look it up on the map, Use my own knowledge as what way would be best and off we go ............... Until.....
Low Bridge ... or ... Weight limit ... or ....Width limit etc, which causes a deviation from intended route. Now ask me to write down the way I went etc and Im bound to forget certain particulars of a journey... that odd mini roundabout, that slipped my mind.. did he say left at the fourth roundabout, Oh shit... cant turn round!!
Get someone else to write it down & check out what your've said and you undoubtably recall that insignificant (but critical) bit of info.
Btw.... If someone can code a decent Euro map that includes low bridges,width restrictions, weight limits etc and can have a linkable, editable database... So as I can put a link in where a customer is etc.... Put me down for a copy
Help required with OS 4 manuals : Comment 17 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by José on 12-May-2002 13:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (anon):
So? It proves that the Amiga community is unique.
Help required with OS 4 manuals : Comment 18 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by Crumb // AAT on 12-May-2002 13:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
I think you should talk to the ATO, they will help you to write the manual, not only in English, but also in other languages :)
I'd like to see something like partition magic with the ability of moving and resizing partitions without hving to format. It also would be nice to have an option to convert form one filesystem to another.
I agree, it's a good idea to ask the community :)
thanks! now that is communication between developers and users :)
Help required with OS 4 manuals : Comment 19 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by amigammc on 12-May-2002 13:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Ole-Egil Hvitmyren):
You read my mind... ;-)
In my advanced composition courses in college I used to proofread US students papers
Help required with OS 4 manuals : Comment 20 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by Crumb // AAT on 12-May-2002 13:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (Daniel Allsopp):
It would be nice, but it is expensive... including the manuals in PDF would be another solution, because not every one wants to pay for a manual... most of users already know how to use AmigaOS and if they want to know something the only thing needed is a quick help (html and/or pdf for example). A decent pdf reader/datatype would be welcome.
Help required with OS 4 manuals : Comment 21 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by amigammc on 12-May-2002 13:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 14 (Hagge):
He's not asking for betatesters to see if the program does what it's supposed to do, he's asking for someone to write a manual.
Help required with OS 4 manuals : Comment 22 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by Nicolas Sallin on 12-May-2002 13:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (Crumb // AAT):
Apdf3 works very well.
Help required with OS 4 manuals : Comment 23 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by Dagon on 12-May-2002 13:55 GMT
Me too I prefer PDF(or HTML)over the paper version of the manual. It`s more practical and easier to find what you want on an e-manual than a convensional one. Paper is premitive :P
Help required with OS 4 manuals : Comment 24 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by tinman on 12-May-2002 14:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (Dagon):
"I just bought this computer with a new OS but it doesn't work. I'd love to be able to read the manual, but it's all on the CD."
Paper and electronic manuals both have advantages and disadvantages :)
Help required with OS 4 manuals : Comment 25 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 12-May-2002 14:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (Daniel Allsopp):
We're still evaluating options with respect to printed or electronic manuals.
If you ask me, I'd go for printed in a second but it's all a question of cost.
If OS 4 sells well, then I'm sure we can come up with that for 4.1.
One thing that's for sure is that OS 4 will come with a PDF reader (xPDF) annex PS printer (Ghostscript) so you can read PDF's comfortably and print them out.
The plan is that this solution will also serve as a plug-in for Ibrowse.
Help required with OS 4 manuals : Comment 26 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 12-May-2002 15:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Ole-Egil Hvitmyren):
Well, that depends on the OS, doesn't it. But I can see how you wouldn't notice because most people don't make much use of the equivalent tools in other modern operating systems. DOS fdisk is a typical DOS tool, it solves only 50% of the problem, and does that badly. Put it out of your mind.
Maybe HDToolbox seems a little empty because the Amiga doesn't have swap, LVM or RAID and therefore doesn't *do* very much with disks? If Ben shows us a screenshot of a dialog from his new HDToolbox like this...
========================================================================
Volume status for FOO
Array [FOO ] structure [RAID 5 ] status [ONLINE ]
Vendor Model Serial # SCSI Status
^ Maxtor 48220 L203ZR2C 0:3:0 FAIL
| Maxtor 48220 L203ZR4C 0:2:0 building
| Maxtor 48220 L204ZA2A 0:5:0 building
v Maxtor 48220 L203ZR8C 0:4:0 building
^
| This array is degraded due to failure of Maxtor 48220 # L203ZR2C
| on SCSI controller 0 device 3 LUN 0. The array is ONLINE
v
Building [#######---]
^ This array is being rebuilt using Maxtor 48220 # L203ZR8C
| on SCSI controller 0 device 4 LUN 0. 71% complete. Estimated time
v to completion 2 hours 7 minutes. 9% bandwidth used by rebuild.
(Ok) (Offline) (Add disk...) (Change settings...) (Format...)
========================================================================
... then I might see your point, but right now it just sounds like you haven't seen outside the Amiga world for a while. Other people have bigger and more powerful tools because they have bigger and more complicated disk setups.
Help required with OS 4 manuals : Comment 27 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by cOrpse on 12-May-2002 15:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 26 (Anonymous):
Well i've used Auto config tools in linux , cli tools in linux/bsd , and various windows tools . Hdtool box ,you select the drive , split it up , change the partition names if you don't like auto ones , config any 3rd party fs , save it and its done :D.
openBSD a bit more like
#a a
<enter>
500m
<enter>
/
#a b
<enter>
<enter>
<enter>
#a d
<enter>
???m
<enter>
etc ...
Help required with OS 4 manuals : Comment 28 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 12-May-2002 15:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (Ole-Egil Hvitmyren):
anon doesnt know a dam thing just iggy him
Help required with OS 4 manuals : Comment 29 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by Shawn on 12-May-2002 15:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 10 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
Ben well put and it is a great program.
Help required with OS 4 manuals : Comment 30 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by Shawn on 12-May-2002 15:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
Electronic alot easier. Plus you save money. More money to go into lets say 4.5 or a new AMiga if you want to take that up %^).
Help required with OS 4 manuals : Comment 31 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by Raffaele on 12-May-2002 15:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (Dagon):
Dagon says:
> Me too I prefer PDF(or HTML)over the paper version of the manual.
> It`s more practical and easier to find what you want on an
> e-manual than a convensional one. Paper is premitive :P
Yesterday Mr. Nowhereman had his computer (PC) hanged up...
«No problem!» He said.
«Seems an unusual hang-up, but nothing really bad... I'll check the manual to know how can I restore the problem!»
He searched into the software box and he found the manual...
It is on CD, in PDF format, and he couldn't read it, because the computer is mangled...
This morning Mr. Nowhereman is laying in an hospital bed because he went crazy...
All he can say is: « Those dam**d they put it on a CD... Those dam**d they put it on a CD... Those dam**d they put it on a CD...»
Help required with OS 4 manuals : Comment 32 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 12-May-2002 16:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 26 (Anonymous):
YOU have stayed inside the pc box way to long to give such an idiot response.
The point is the Hdtoolbox is very powerful, but doesnt look so daunting as to scare you away, and at the same time easy to use.
Help required with OS 4 manuals : Comment 33 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 12-May-2002 16:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 31 (Raffaele):
remeber you are refering to pcs that crash every minute or so and with an Amiga you can boot off the cd and run the manual. ops forgot about that now didnt you. ^)
Help required with OS 4 manuals : Comment 34 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by Markus on 12-May-2002 16:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (Nicolas Sallin):
In reply to message 22:
Apdf3? Where did you get it? I just know of 2.2. Typo?
Help required with OS 4 manuals : Comment 35 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by Raffaele on 12-May-2002 16:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (Crumb // AAT):
Crumb says:
> I think you should talk to the ATO,
> they will help you to write the manual,
> not only in English, but also in other languages :)
I agree...
> I'd like to see something like partition magic with the
> ability of moving and resizing partitions without hving
> to format. It also would be nice to have an option to
> convert form one filesystem to another.
I'd like it too, but I prefer *FIRST* a decent HDTOOLBOX capable to handle all Amiga Filesystems included AFS and PFS, and capable to recognize FAT16-32 FS, NTFS4-5 and EXT2/EXT3 REISERFS of eventual emulators, just to not bother them...
And *then* a parallel utility to copy, swap, move partitions of any type...
First AOS4.0 must learn how to step, then how to run...
Certainly an utility like partition magic must be included in the first 4.0 Boing Bag.
Bye,
Raffaele
Help required with OS 4 manuals : Comment 36 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by Raffaele on 12-May-2002 16:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 33 (Anonymous):
Hummm...
Mr. Nowhereman is back home... now he found a paper note into the software box for his computer...
It says: if your computer is freezed, then put the CD with the PDF manual into an Audio-CD Box, a talked version of the manual will be played!
«Great!» says Mr. Nowhereman «I'll do it NOW!»
He puts the Cd into his CD Player in the Stereo at home and a voice starts to say:
«If your computer is freezed you can't read the PDF manual! Please contact your nearest dealer and carry him your computer in order to fix the problem!»
and Mr. Nowhereman: «GYAAAAARGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!»
Help required with OS 4 manuals : Comment 37 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 12-May-2002 16:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 35 (Raffaele):
Believe me, our HDToolbox replacement is very advanced.
It surpasses HDToolbox in every way.
There would have been little point in replacing HDToolbox otherwise.
Help required with OS 4 manuals : Comment 38 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by Aram Iskenderian on 12-May-2002 16:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Ole-Egil Hvitmyren):
Ole-Egil Hvitmyren Wrote:
>Heh, I actually know more native english speakers who cann't write proper >english than norwegians who can't... Good luck ;)
Wow, I see that this going to be a long spelling/English/grammar/punctuation mini-flame war.
Let's start with you, You should write English and Norwegians. :-)
Help required with OS 4 manuals : Comment 39 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by Aram Iskenderian on 12-May-2002 16:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 4 (anon):
anon Wrote:
>Very professional Ben. Well done.
>You need someone to write docs for your *powerful* (lol) HDToolbox?
Welocme to the professional world.
I take that you are new to all this, or maybe to the Amiga platform?
Hyperion is not multi-billion company with dedicated department(s) of technical writers, and professional programmers are no necessarily good at writting documentation for their products.
Instead of acting like this, offer some help if you are that much of an expert when it comes to detecting who is professional and who is not.
Help required with OS 4 manuals : Comment 40 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by Nicolas Sallin on 12-May-2002 16:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 34 (Markus):
Apdf3.1 is the current version. Just not released yet.
Very fine and stable. Never crashed it.
Help required with OS 4 manuals : Comment 41 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by SlimJim on 12-May-2002 17:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
> One thing that's for sure is that OS 4 will come with a PDF reader (xPDF)
> annex PS printer (Ghostscript) so you can read PDF's comfortably and print them out.
> The plan is that this solution will also serve as a plug-in for Ibrowse.
VERY good. Although it's possible to read PDF:s already on classic Amiga, it will
be great to have an integrated solution (and that 600MHz G3 *might* process them
damn pages somewhat faster than my (now dead) '060...heh.)
I need to access and plow through a lot of scientific papers from the web, so this is
excellent news.
As for manuals, I'd gladly pay for (even separately sold) printed manuals. It should be
included with the OS - feels much more professional, and more like the big new-genreration
step AOS4 is supposed to be.
In the future, I would gladly write some manual for you if you ever need it, Ben!
.
SlimJim
Help required with OS 4 manuals : Comment 42 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by Apathy in tomato sause on 12-May-2002 18:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 24 (tinman):
Tinman has a point.
I don't believe a thick manual in the box is necessary.
However a small manual containg the following would be a good idea.
1. Quick installation quide.
2. FAQ in case of any problems.
3. A Quick guide to locating and viewing the documentation, including
printing it.
I think that this would be usefull to people new to the amiga system.
You know, the kind of people who are not as technical as the rest of
us on here.
Help required with OS 4 manuals : Comment 43 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by Henning Lund on 12-May-2002 19:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
I would definitly prefer the printed version!!! With a computerversion as a extra "thing" ;o)
And another thing, I hope that AmigaOS 4.0 also has "Locale" included!!!
My best wishes for the future :o)
Henning Lund [Denmark]
Help required with OS 4 manuals : Comment 44 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by Kay Are Ulvestad on 12-May-2002 20:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Ole-Egil Hvitmyren):
> Heh, I actually know more native english speakers who cann't write proper
> english than norwegians who can't... Good luck ;)
I know what you mean...it isn't a problem unique to English, though. The number of
Norwegians who can't use their own written language properly is simply stunning.
I think it is always an advantage to have a native English speaker write the English
documentation. While there might be a lot of people with a good grasp of English who
are not native English speakers, a near-perfect grasp is rare. Having well written
and professional documentation is important for a product like OS4. I am glad to see
that Ben takes it seriously.
BTW, who translated OS3.9 into Norwegian? Whoever it was seems to have done a decent
job...many Norwegian translations tend to suffer from having the original word-partitioning
from the English version. This guy seems to have gotten it right. Perhaps he can do the
translation for OS4 as well?
Kay
Help required with OS 4 manuals : Comment 45 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by Andy on 12-May-2002 20:26 GMT
The A1 will be bought by existing amiga users anyway, so they will
already know what most things are - OS 4 is basicly OS 3.9 coded for
PPC and with a few extra features, basicly (although I am sure it will
be a lot better) point is, if you can use OS 3.9 then OS 4 will not be
a steep learning curve.
The people asking for a printed manual - have you ever had to read the
manuals for OS 3.5/3.9? thought not.
If the manual is in electronic form and you can't access your computer
to read it, heres an idea, put the cd into the computer you are using
to read this message now! im sure it will still work when you get your
shiny new A1
Help required with OS 4 manuals : Comment 46 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 12-May-2002 20:31 GMT
I could put a big jobby in a book and smear it around. The
result would be a really accurate representation of Hyperion's
software.
Help required with OS 4 manuals : Comment 47 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by Nichelle on 12-May-2002 20:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (anon):
->and so cannot say, if it's any better than fdisk.
Uh!? Isn't fdisk one of those "screensaver" B/W text-only programs?
As any HDToolbox-replacement allowed us to modify something graphically
AND more exact that the dos-shell-based fdisk....
ANYTHING will be more usefull than fdisk imho.
And all Hyperion needs to put into a new hdtoolbox for me to make me a happy
kitty is that I can select which device I want to work on at any time,
so that I don't have to start new instances of it at any time.
Oh, and a low-level-format would be nice.
My Ruac-2 RAID-Box doesn't accept changes until after a reformat, dont ask me why.
Help required with OS 4 manuals : Comment 48 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by Nichelle on 12-May-2002 21:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 46 (Anonymous):
->I could put a big jobby in a book and smear it around. The
result would be a really accurate representation of Hyperion's
software.
Which makes me wonder why this anonymouos guy, when he can't read, tries to read binary
sourcecode ?!
I actually would use the software in my computer, not dump it to my printer and try to read it?!
Or?
Oh, furgot.... Anonym issa proud like god he has something in common with that company named Microshaft.....
Help required with OS 4 manuals : Comment 49 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by Nichelle on 12-May-2002 21:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (Dagon):
Dragon wrote: Paper is premitive :P
It's: Paper is preemtive...
When I ran into trouble my book still works, my computer not.
Plus, did you ever try to take your monitor under your blanket to read at night?
=^--^=
Help required with OS 4 manuals : Comment 50 of 115ANN.lu
Posted by KenH on 12-May-2002 21:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 16 (A Trucker who uses Amigas):
Good analogy and good idea. Hey....you ever drive with Bill McEwen? ;)
P.S. It's good to see alot of new names around the scene since a new OS was mentioned.
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