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[News] Pegasos and Morphos on German TV 3SatANN.lu
Posted on 15-May-2002 20:36 GMT by Christophe Decanini272 comments
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The bplan GmbH would like to inform you about the Computer Magazine taking place on the 27th of may at 9.30 pm.

neues - das Computer- und Telekommunikationsmagazin auf 3sat

There is an IRC chat scheduled after the show. Check it out here.

Pegasos and Morphos on German TV 3Sat : Comment 51 of 272ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 16-May-2002 12:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 45 (Miky060):
I can just imagine you foaming at the mouth as you wrote that. What a fine glimpse into an obviously insane mind.
There is no reason that OS4 couldn't run on the Pegasos if thats what users end up wanting.
Just... umm, calm down.
Pegasos and Morphos on German TV 3Sat : Comment 52 of 272ANN.lu
Posted by Seehund on 16-May-2002 12:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 47 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
Well, as far as has been announced, the A1G3SE is/will be more expensive than the Pegasos. That's a fact, or are you aware of any changes in the announced prices? "Inferior" is more of a subjective opinion or based on personal needs and expectations.
I just wonder why you, Ben Hermans of the company Hyperion making a software product, apparently advocate one hardware product from another company over another similar hardware product from yet another company?
Maybe I could understand if someone from Amiga Inc. was saying what you said, as they'd have a reason to promote anything that would earn them some licensing income from the "Amiga One" trademark.
Oh well. Compulsory licensing. Compulsory OS/hardware bundling. BIOS extensions from an OS vendor. It's a sick, sick, sick world.
Pegasos and Morphos on German TV 3Sat : Comment 53 of 272ANN.lu
Posted by Seehund on 16-May-2002 12:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 51 (Anonymous):
> There is no reason that OS4 couldn't run on the Pegasos if thats
> what users end up wanting.
No technological, financial or developmental reason, no. Just the compulsory licensing and OS/hardware bundling requirement rearing its ugly head again.
That goes for *any* hardware, not just the Pegasos.
Pegasos and Morphos on German TV 3Sat : Comment 54 of 272ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 16-May-2002 12:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 52 (Seehund):
Believe me, it's not just Eyetech that can change schedules, prices and specifications. What I think Ben is implying is probably that this is what's going to happen with the pegasos as well. If that was to happen, your "facts" that the Pegasos will be cheaper/better than the A1 wouldn't be topical anymore.
Pegasos and Morphos on German TV 3Sat : Comment 55 of 272ANN.lu
Posted by DaveW on 16-May-2002 12:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 40 (Christian Kemp):
<troll>
Tsk so you have a bias against usenet aswell ;-)! Typical! All this hidden agendas!
The "news" claim should also probably be dropped ;-P
</troll>
Now how do we pronounce it:
an<pause>ne
ay-en-en
a<pause>en-en
an<silent second n>
Dave.
Pegasos and Morphos on German TV 3Sat : Comment 56 of 272ANN.lu
Posted by DaveW on 16-May-2002 12:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 53 (Seehund):
> rearing its ugly head again
Ugly because it doesnt fit in with your agenda yes?
Diddums.
Pegasos and Morphos on German TV 3Sat : Comment 57 of 272ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 16-May-2002 12:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 53 (Seehund):
The Amiga market is not a freeware or open-source market, a commercial market depends on licensing and bundling issues in order to be user-friendly, competitive and above all; profitable. It's a common thing and an evil necessity on all major platforms out there.
Pegasos and Morphos on German TV 3Sat : Comment 58 of 272ANN.lu
Posted by DaveW on 16-May-2002 12:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 47 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
Ben
Just because there are pond life on here making stupid statements and using this forum as a political & marketing sounding board against AmigaONE doesnt mean that anyone else is allowed to join the party. Its a MorphOS and BPlan only thread.
Got it?
thwack!
Dave.
( ;-) )
Pegasos and Morphos on German TV 3Sat : Comment 59 of 272ANN.lu
Posted by DaveW on 16-May-2002 12:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 57 (Samface):
Its called free enterprise. Seehund has the freedom to set up a completely free competing system if he wants and try to bet his livelyhood on it. He also has the freedom to make money.
Oh no.
Not making money, isnt that like too right wing for software users?
<dies of shock>
Pegasos and Morphos on German TV 3Sat : Comment 60 of 272ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 16-May-2002 13:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 59 (DaveW):
On the contrary, it's probably too "left-wing". ;-)
Pegasos and Morphos on German TV 3Sat : Comment 61 of 272ANN.lu
Posted by Seehund on 16-May-2002 13:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 54 (Samface):
> Believe me, it's not just Eyetech that can change schedules, prices and
> specifications. What I think Ben is implying is probably that this is
> what's going to happen with the pegasos as well.
Of course changes can happen with everything, I was merely wondering why someone representing a software company is commenting on such *possibilities* regarding hardware products from other companies in public.
> If that was to happen, your "facts" that the Pegasos will be
> cheaper/better than the A1 wouldn't be topical anymore.
Are you addressing me personally or the general "you"? I never said anything about "better". I stated that the announced price for the Pegasos is cheaper than that of the A1G3SE, and *today* that's a non-disputable fact without quotation marks. What's "better" is up to each individual to decide for themselves, not to me, you, or software companies. I refuse to take "sides" regarding which hardware I want to run AmigaOS on, merely based on the label on the hardware or its distributor.
Pegasos and Morphos on German TV 3Sat : Comment 62 of 272ANN.lu
Posted by DaveW on 16-May-2002 13:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 61 (Seehund):
So the AmigaONE which is available for development only at the moment is not cheaper than the Pegasos which is available for development only at the moment.
What are you basing this price comparison on?
Prices for two unreleased to the general public products?
Marked-up prices?
We have been through this before and the breakdown we did on amiga.org showed that
the prices that you quoted on that thread when compared to the direct from Eyetech and the direct from BPlan "prices" ( have to be in quotes ) showed that the A1 was cheaper.
Pegasos and Morphos on German TV 3Sat : Comment 63 of 272ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 16-May-2002 13:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 57 (Samface):
>The Amiga market is not a freeware or open-source market
Sure. But it isn't a *normal* market.
Pegasos and Morphos on German TV 3Sat : Comment 64 of 272ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 16-May-2002 13:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 50 (Kronos):
AInc has to over what development-costs ??
5 Milj. for the Amiga brandname ?
Pegasos and Morphos on German TV 3Sat : Comment 65 of 272ANN.lu
Posted by DaveW on 16-May-2002 13:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 63 (Anonymous):
Its a normal market, its just a large percentage of the userbase are abnormal....
Pegasos and Morphos on German TV 3Sat : Comment 66 of 272ANN.lu
Posted by Seehund on 16-May-2002 13:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 56 (DaveW):
> Ugly because it doesnt fit in with your agenda yes?
I don't work for anyone in the Amiga market or anything related to it, I'm not affiliated to Amiga Inc, the MorphOS team, bplan, Eyetech, Hyperion or Burger King, and I don't have irrational zealous anti-/sympathies for any of those entities.
It's ugly because it unnecessarily deprives us who want to buy and use AmigaOS of hardware and distributor options, as _proven_ _over_ _and_ _over_ _again_ _by_ _this_ _ridiculous_ _"OS4 on Pegasos"_ _debacle_. I can't see anything "beautiful" about a software/licensing company trying to control hardware and hardware companies.
Pegasos and Morphos on German TV 3Sat : Comment 67 of 272ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 16-May-2002 13:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 62 (DaveW):
>the prices that you quoted on that thread when compared to the direct from Eyetech and
>the direct from BPlan "prices" ( have to be in quotes ) showed that the A1 was cheaper.
A1 is cheaper when you only:
a) buy the hardware without an OS
b) are not living in the Euro-zone
c) get the 10% preorder discount
Pegasos and Morphos on German TV 3Sat : Comment 68 of 272ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 16-May-2002 13:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 50 (Kronos):
"AInc has to over what development-costs ??
There has been nothing developed by AInc (atleast
not for the Amiga-market), just relabeling and
outsourcing. "
samface did not insist that there is. (offtopic: but there might be some bits & pieces...)
He just said:
"big loss in even trying as the sales wouldn't cover the development expenses."
Pegasos and Morphos on German TV 3Sat : Comment 69 of 272ANN.lu
Posted by %00 on 16-May-2002 13:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 61 (Seehund):
What is indisputable fact is that I cannot buy and use now either hardware solution with either softaware solution in any combination. Why is so much energy and bile expended supporting hardware/software that is not even available yet in consumer editions?
Pegasos and Morphos on German TV 3Sat : Comment 70 of 272ANN.lu
Posted by Kronos on 16-May-2002 13:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 64 (Anonymous):
>5 Milj. for the Amiga brandname ?
Do you really believe this number ?
Remember it was an insider-deal and at first
Amino didn't have any interest in AmigaOS or
any of the technology.
And no just buying a brand-name doesn't count
as developing-cost its just marketing.
All real developing was done by TAO/H&P/Zeneo/
Harald&Bernie/Hyperion/ ????.
Pegasos and Morphos on German TV 3Sat : Comment 71 of 272ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 16-May-2002 13:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 45 (Miky060):
>Is Amiga Inc. that does not let OS4.0 to run on Pegasos.
No, it's the opposite.
Last time I checked:
- bplan does not let Hyperion develop OS4 for pegasos.
- neither does bplan want AmigaOne licence (someone said it's even totally free).
- bplan does not let DCE support Hyperion in the development of OS4 for BPPC and for GREX.
Pegasos and Morphos on German TV 3Sat : Comment 72 of 272ANN.lu
Posted by Kronos on 16-May-2002 13:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 68 (priest):
And I said there weren't any development expenses (for AInc).
Pegasos and Morphos on German TV 3Sat : Comment 73 of 272ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 16-May-2002 13:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 70 (Kronos):
>5 Milj. for the Amiga brandname ?
>Do you really believe this number ?
It could also be 10 Milj.
>Remember it was an insider-deal and at first
>Amino didn't have any interest in AmigaOS or
>any of the technology.
>And no just buying a brand-name doesn't count
>as developing-cost its just marketing.
Brand name, advise, etc. are calculated in a costprice of a endproduct.
Pegasos and Morphos on German TV 3Sat : Comment 74 of 272ANN.lu
Posted by David Scheibler on 16-May-2002 13:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 71 (priest):
>bplan does not let Hyperion develop OS4 for pegasos.
Why should they? Hyperion makes nearly daily legal threats against bplan in
public. Would you cooperate with such a company?
>neither does bplan want AmigaOne licence (someone said it's even totally
>free).
According to Mr Hermans you are only allowed to sell this "AmigaOne" with
AmigaOS then. You can't sell it with two OS (example OS4 and MorphOS). So it
wouldn't make sense for bplan.
>bplan does not let DCE support Hyperion in the development of OS4 for BPPC and
>for GREX
DCE hasn't heard from Hyperion since last November. On the other hand Hyperion
spreads rumours about DCE (Grex drivers etc.)
BTW: Quoting morphos.de:
"Q: Will MorphOS run on the announced Eyetech's PPC Hardware?
A: We haven't got any specs and we don't expect to get any."
Pegasos and Morphos on German TV 3Sat : Comment 75 of 272ANN.lu
Posted by Seehund on 16-May-2002 13:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 57 (Samface):
> The Amiga market is not a freeware or open-source market, a commercial market
> depends on licensing and bundling issues in order to be user-friendly,
> competitive and above all; profitable.
I don't agree at all (unexpected, eh? ;))
User-friendly:
OS/hardware bundling and licensing can be a good thing in this aspect, but not if it's compulsory. Distributors who wish to sell OS/hardware bundles to those who wish could very well be required to get a license to do so, but a software company trying to control the entire hardware market for its OS is plain evil.
Competitive:
What's the competitive advantage for AmigaOS, compared to other OSes, if it can only be sold bundled with licensed hardware from licensed dealers? What's not anti-competitive about forcing hardware distributors to modify the BIOS of their hardware, bundle a certain OS with their hardware and get a license just to be allowed to sell their hardware to a certain OS user market segment?
Profitable:
Will a piece of software sell in larger numbers if it's only available together with certain licensed hardware from certain licensed distributors than if it was available separately and could be installed on any hardware from any distributor of the user's choice? I think not. Common market economics sense says so too. Will a piece of hardware be more expensive if it has to get its BIOS modified, its distributor and his organisation licensed and it has to be separated from the rest of the market for the exact same hardware product? Of course. It's so blatantly obvious that it hurts.
> It's a common thing and an evil necessity on all major platforms out there.
Huh?? Like which major end-user/consumer platform? AFAIK, only Apple does something even remotely similar, but then again they make their living on designing, making and selling their own hardware.
Pegasos and Morphos on German TV 3Sat : Comment 76 of 272ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 16-May-2002 14:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 47 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
Not always smart to play hunches, ask any professional gambler leaving the casino with empty pockets.
The message is the same as last year "You just wait and see", but we waited and there was nothing to see except internal squabbling.
Pegasos and Morphos on German TV 3Sat : Comment 77 of 272ANN.lu
Posted by SteveW on 16-May-2002 14:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 67 (Anonymous):
Eyetech claims there will NO AMigaOne sold without AmigaOS4 included therefore your statement that A1 is cheaper than Pegaos is nonsesn
Pegasos and Morphos on German TV 3Sat : Comment 78 of 272ANN.lu
Posted by Seehund on 16-May-2002 14:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 59 (DaveW):
> Seehund has the freedom to set up a completely free competing system
> if he wants and try to bet his livelyhood on it.
Seehund: Hello, Mr. Far Eastern POP Motherboard Producer. I'd like to buy 10000 units of your HeronVX motherboards.
Mr. FEPMP: Of course. Thank you for your order. You want a "Seehund" label with that?
Seehund: Hello, AmigaOS/Linux/BSD/JoeOS users, you wanna buy this mobo?
Users: Yay!
Amiga Inc: Hello Seehund. Please sign the dotted line.
- Scenario 1 -
Seehund: Ummm, no. I sell hardware, not software. And I don't want to modify part of my stock to run a certain OS and bundle that OS or provide software support. I sell the "SeehundVX" only, not the SeehundVX and the SeeAmigaVX.
Amiga Inc: Crap. One less licensee.
AmigaOS users: Crap. One less hardware and distributor option.
Linux/BSD/JoeOS users: Crap. Now Seehund has to raise his prices because he just lost the AmigaOS market.
Seehund: Crap. Oh well, I'll just keep selling to the Linux/BSD/JoeOS people then. I wonder why nobody designs new POP motherboards?
- Scenario 2 -
Seehund: OK, so I'll sign right here, right?
Seehund wanders off and reflashes the BIOS of some of his boards and starts a software support organisation and sets up a combined OS/mobo sales system.
AmigaOS users: Hey! This is no cheaper than what we can already buy?! Crap.
Linux/BSD/JoeOS people: Hey! Why should we buy your expensive boards when XYZ sell the exact same boards much cheaper? Crap.
Seehund: Well, lower volumes, differentiated markets, increased costs... Oh, crap.
> Not making money, isnt that like too right wing for software users?
Being a tiny OS maker yet trying to outperform an infamous software monopolist who at least have left the hardware market pretty much alone is a surefire way to not make money.
Pegasos and Morphos on German TV 3Sat : Comment 79 of 272ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 16-May-2002 14:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 52 (Seehund):
"Oh well. Compulsory licensing. Compulsory OS/hardware bundling. BIOS extensions from an OS vendor. It's a sick, sick, sick world."
Uhm.. Much like every Amiga ever made?
Pegasos and Morphos on German TV 3Sat : Comment 80 of 272ANN.lu
Posted by Ole-Egil Hvitmyren on 16-May-2002 14:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 78 (Seehund):
The ever so famous "you can't win"? No matter what you do, someone will call your product crap :)
Pegasos and Morphos on German TV 3Sat : Comment 81 of 272ANN.lu
Posted by Ole-Egil Hvitmyren on 16-May-2002 14:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 78 (Seehund):
The ever so famous "you can't win"? No matter what you do, someone will call your product crap :)
Pegasos and Morphos on German TV 3Sat : Comment 82 of 272ANN.lu
Posted by Kronos on 16-May-2002 14:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 79 (Anonymous):
>Uhm.. Much like every Amiga ever made?
And how many new Amigas did we get in the last
10 years, and one reason for this is....
Its 2002 not 1985 and the world has changed.
Pegasos and Morphos on German TV 3Sat : Comment 83 of 272ANN.lu
Posted by priest on 16-May-2002 14:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 74 (David Scheibler):
>>bplan does not let Hyperion develop OS4 for pegasos.
>Why should they?
Well, if they cared about the future of Amiga, they should.
Also if they want to sell as many boards as possible, they should.
But because they just want the same monopoly, control and high prices they had after C= demise, they do not.
I have not seen any other proof than that they want the death of competitive HW and therefore also the death of official AmigaOS (that would power A1.5 and SharkPPC).
>Hyperion makes nearly daily legal threats against
>bplan in public. Would you cooperate with such a company?
LOL! Get real. How could Hyperion threat bplan? With what?
But Amiga Inc could threat bplan, if their product is sold with unlicenced Amiga technology.
>>neither does bplan want AmigaOne licence (someone said it's even totally
>>free).
>According to Mr Hermans you are only allowed to sell this "AmigaOne" with
AmigaOS then.
What's the problem? I do not understand why someone would want "AmigaOne" licence if one does not intend to sell it with AMIGA OS?
I hope Ben clarifies it again, because IIRC, there is no limitation to the sales of pegasos motherboards for non-AmigaOS users.
But if the board is going to be sold with AmigaOS, as an Amiga(One), licences are needed, but only for those boards that are sold with the OS4 & AmigaOne name.
Also I've understood it so that if bplan let's Hyperion do OS4 for pegasos, it would become possible for some third party company/dealer to bundle pegasos+AmigaOne(name)+AmigaOS4.
The sales of pegasos would rise, but Ralph Smith would not be happy because AmigaOS means competition to MorphOS.
>You can't sell it with two OS (example OS4 and MorphOS). So it wouldn't make sense for bplan.
???
Also this is something that I have not seen mentioned by AI or Ben Hermans.
(well, I've been boygotting some long threads at ANN...) ;)
Clarification needed again Ben, I thought they are allowed to sell it with other OSs, like the AmigaOneG3-SE & TurboLinux bundle.
>>bplan does not let DCE support Hyperion in the development of OS4 for BPPC >>and for GREX
>DCE hasn't heard from Hyperion since last November.
Ah, you rather believe DCE, the german company?
It's just word against word situation then, except that a lot more people complain about DCE.
>On the other hand
>Hyperion spreads rumours about DCE (Grex drivers etc.)
Word against word.
I have heard things how DCE blames Hyperion for the problems with their Grex (when the issue is asked by dealers).
And Hyperion says it has not received any new HW specification from DCE so that they could see where the problem is.
And IIRC, those drivers have worked ok, untill DCE did some changes...
I rather trust in Hyperion than believe in DCE who does not even return people's accelerators, etc...
>BTW: Quoting morphos.de:
>"Q: Will MorphOS run on the announced Eyetech's PPC Hardware?
>A: We haven't got any specs and we don't expect to get any."
LOL! What does that have to do with this issue?
Or does that mean that MOS team has requested for A1.5 specs?
Or does this "we don't expect to get any" mean that they will not ever even ask for them?
Or does that mean that Eyetech should have sent specs without someone asking for them?
It just sounds like a flame.
MOS on A1.5 is not in the interest of MOS developers (because of their bplan involvement).
In reality:
I think there is very little interest for Eyetech to support MOS at this time, especially because of the unclear situation of AmigaOS licence for the ABox in MOS.
If Eyetech supported unlicenced SW, they migh loose the deal with "Amiga".
In the past month or so, it has become very unlikely that I'll buy any bplan product.
Pegasos and Morphos on German TV 3Sat : Comment 84 of 272ANN.lu
Posted by wouter on 16-May-2002 14:54 GMT
Why bplan should support OS4.0?
Simple really. I'm really interested in a Pegasos with OS4.0. That's one more customer for bplan.
If there is no Pegasos/OS4.0, ok fine, then i'll buy AOne.
It's that simple. Isn't the target of any company to sell as much of something they produce?
Pegasos and Morphos on German TV 3Sat : Comment 85 of 272ANN.lu
Posted by David Scheibler on 16-May-2002 15:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 83 (priest):
>LOL! Get real. How could Hyperion threat bplan? With what?
>But Amiga Inc could threat bplan, if their product is sold with unlicenced
>Amiga technology.
I only see Hyperion making such statements in public. In fact Mr Peake said
that this is very unprofessional (see AmigaOne ML).
>Ah, you rather believe DCE, the german company?
You rather believe Hyperion, the company with German coders?
>It's just word against word situation then, except that a lot more people
>complain about DCE.
Well, DCE sold more than a few hundred products to the Amiga market....
>I have heard things how DCE blames Hyperion for the problems with their Grex
>(when the issue is asked by dealers).
And Hyperion members have clarified that it does not come from DCE but only
from one dealer.
>And Hyperion says it has not received any new HW specification from DCE so
>that they could see where the problem is.
Right, instead Hyperion makes guess work without having the driver, or the
hardware. They don't know where the problem is but just guess that it might be
this or that and that it is impossible to fix without DCE and therefore blame
DCE. If you ask Hyperion if they were informed about the problem and that it is
already fixed by DCE then they are quiet very fast.
>And IIRC, those drivers have worked ok, untill DCE did some changes...
Exactly. And DCE already fixed it. But Hyperion doesn't want to comment this of
course. Instead their guess work goes on.
>I think there is very little interest for Eyetech to support MOS at this time
Also true for bplan and OS4 and its legal situation.
Pegasos and Morphos on German TV 3Sat : Comment 86 of 272ANN.lu
Posted by Kronos on 16-May-2002 15:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 84 (wouter):
If the Pegasos goes on sale in a few weeks
Hyperion can buy one, modify the A1-version
and sell it as standalone product.
If bPlan would agree to the bundling-scheme
it would mean a lot of people will wait for
the release of COS4 to buy there Pegasos.
Some of these people might have bought it
shortly after the release (and COS later)
if that would be possible.
Some people might say "I want a Pegasos and
if there is no COS4 for it I will use MorphOS"
These people will still buy the Pegasos.
So while it could be true that a "Pegasos-A1"
would mean higher sales for bPlan, this sales
would only happen later.
Hyperion hasn't even announced a realistic
release-date for COS4_on_A1 so how could bPlan
base their survival to such an uncertain future ?
Pegasos and Morphos on German TV 3Sat : Comment 87 of 272ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 16-May-2002 15:26 GMT
Tell me 1 x86 motherboard manufacturer which has never sold one single product bundled with windows? Tell me 1 x86 motherboard manufacturer who would say no to have their product Microsoft Windows certified?
You already admitted about Apple so I don't have to mention them. Be Inc is now suing Microsoft for "stealing" their hardware + OS bundle partner and claims that this is the very reason for why they went bancrupt. AmigaOS has always been a bundled with the hardware since 1985. Do you need more examples of how bundling and license issues control the computer market of today?
Pegasos and Morphos on German TV 3Sat : Comment 88 of 272ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 16-May-2002 15:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 87 (Samface):
BTW: That comment was aimed at Seehund.
Pegasos and Morphos on German TV 3Sat : Comment 89 of 272ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 16-May-2002 16:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 70 (Kronos):
Yes, I believe that number because I have seen the documents involved.
(Actually, it's 4.5 M, not 5 M).
Besides, I'm willing to bet you could find this info in SEC filing from Gateway.
EDGAR anyone?
Pegasos and Morphos on German TV 3Sat : Comment 90 of 272ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 16-May-2002 16:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 85 (David Scheibler):
Oh, it's fixed now?
Why do problems like this only get fixed when we raise hell over it because we get sick of being bombarded by mail from disgruntled users?
Besides, I'm not sure it's fixed at all.
Nobody informed us about this.
Is it also "fixed" for everybody with a current busboard?
Pegasos and Morphos on German TV 3Sat : Comment 91 of 272ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 16-May-2002 16:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 90 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
Oh and by the way, we did contact DCE several times about all these issues.
Never any reply. Do you want e-mail records?
Please.
Who do you think is going to believe the story that we never even tried to get the GREX specs and problems issues sorted out?
Really David, snap out of fantasy land.
Pegasos and Morphos on German TV 3Sat : Comment 92 of 272ANN.lu
Posted by kjetil on 16-May-2002 16:15 GMT
In reply to Comment 84 (wouter):
Pegasus/OS4.0 is the best setup in my mind,
if Pegasus do not run OS4.0 they I'm not baying any thing form Pegasus.
Pegasos and Morphos on German TV 3Sat : Comment 93 of 272ANN.lu
Posted by David Scheibler on 16-May-2002 16:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 90 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
>Besides, I'm not sure it's fixed at all.
>Nobody informed us about this.
So TF wasn't informed about it before you posted it to amiga-news.de?
Pegasos and Morphos on German TV 3Sat : Comment 94 of 272ANN.lu
Posted by David Scheibler on 16-May-2002 16:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 91 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
>Really David, snap out of fantasy land
Why?`It's really nice here. There are even people that think that they can
release OS4 in Feburary 2002 here....
Pegasos and Morphos on German TV 3Sat : Comment 95 of 272ANN.lu
Posted by @Benny on 16-May-2002 16:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 91 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
Get a brain man!
Pegasos and Morphos on German TV 3Sat : Comment 96 of 272ANN.lu
Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 16-May-2002 16:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 93 (David Scheibler):
If you mean the fact that the Voodoo 3 3000 was clocked down to 2000 speed, yes.
If you think that solves the problem, dream on.
The performance loss is far more serious that can ever be accounted for this way.
Besides, we had tests conducted with a Voodoo 3 2000, on the one hand with P96 and Prometheus and on the other hand with the same Voodoo 3 2000 and a GREX 4000D.
The Prometheus was substantially faster with the same Voodoo 3.
There is something wrong but we don't know what.
Again, we suspect some kind of MMU set-up.
Believe stop believing every bit of nonsense you get fed.
Pegasos and Morphos on German TV 3Sat : Comment 97 of 272ANN.lu
Posted by DaveW on 16-May-2002 16:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 67 (Anonymous):
>A1 is cheaper when you only:
>a) buy the hardware without an OS
>b) are not living in the Euro-zone
>c) get the 10% preorder discount
Figures dear boy.
Pegasos and Morphos on German TV 3Sat : Comment 98 of 272ANN.lu
Posted by Seehund on 16-May-2002 16:41 GMT
In reply to Comment 87 (Samface):
> Tell me 1 x86 motherboard manufacturer which has never sold one single
> product bundled with windows?
Never? One single product? Then I don't know. Otherwise the Big Ones (ABit, Asus, iWill, Soyo...) all sell their motherboards without any OS. I suppose you could buy them bundled with Windows, but that's not really common.
The point is that they're not forced to sell it bundled with Windows (or any other OS) just because they're Windows compatible. They also don't have to modify boards/BIOSes in order to be allowed to sell them together with any particular OS. Microsoft is a software company (yeah, yeah; X-box, mice...) so they sell their software products to anyone who wants to buy it, be it separately or bundled with hardware.
> Tell me 1 x86 motherboard manufacturer who would say no to have their
> product Microsoft Windows certified?
Windows is the outstandingly dominating OS for x86 hardware. If the licensing terms aren't too outrageous, it would be silly not to get that sticker. OTOH, people who build their own computers are generally "advanced" enough users to not give a rat's ass whether their mobo's got that sticker, so there's still a big market for "uncertified" hardware - which of course keeps competition up and prices down.
AmigaOS is not Windows. Amiga Inc. is not MS. The OS isn't dominating and the company can't afford MS-like subsidies for distributors who wish to bundle AmigaOS. Even MS, although I'm sure they'd be happy to if the anti-monopoly legislation let them, does not force compatible hardware to be bundled with their OS. They're *big enough* and *already dominating* to get away with profit from demanding modified BIOSes and compulsory licensing, but not in the long run. They realise that if they want to maximise profits and keep their product being the most widespread, they can't impose such *compulsory* restrictions.
> Be Inc is now suing Microsoft for "stealing" their hardware + OS bundle
> partner and claims that this is the very reason for why they went bancrupt.
I'm not too educated when it comes to the Be(OS) happenings, but if they relied on a hardware partner selling bundles and blame their bankrupcy on this I can't see why this would be a counterpoint to what I'm saying...
> AmigaOS has always been a bundled with the hardware since 1985.
Heh. :-D Yeah, those were the days.
Luckily there is no proprietary Amiga hardware any more and nobody, especially not the licensor, is designing or making any such. Yet the licensor demands that hardware manufacturers/distributors should become licensees and sell the licensor's software product with the licensee's hardware and even modify the hardware.
> Do you need more examples of how bundling and license issues control
> the computer market of today?
Look, I don't really care about bundling and licensing in general. It can be and often is a Good Thing for both producers and consumers.
In case you missed it, it's the *compulsory* OS/hardware bundling, the *unavailability* (is that English?) of separately sold AmigaOS packages and the *compulsory* licensing that makes me cringe and lose hope for even a relatively moderate success of AmigaOS.
Losing hardware options for no technological reason whatsoever, losing competition, losing distributor options and so on would not be issues if the licensing was volontary and only required *if* you are planning to sell complete OS/hardware bundles. That would bring competition between distributors and be good for both the "beginner" and the "advanced" user markets.
Pegasos and Morphos on German TV 3Sat : Comment 99 of 272ANN.lu
Posted by DaveW on 16-May-2002 16:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 85 (David Scheibler):
>I only see Hyperion making such statements in public. In fact Mr Peake said
that this is very unprofessional (see AmigaOne ML).
ROFLMAO!
Pegasos and Morphos on German TV 3Sat : Comment 100 of 272ANN.lu
Posted by Kronos on 16-May-2002 16:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 97 (DaveW):
Pegasos: 650Euro including german VAT and MorphOS
AOne (consumer) 600Euro + VAT696Euro (+COS4)
AOne (developer) 540Euro + VAT ~ 630Euro (+COS4)
German VAT is 16% so you can take that of the
Pegasos if you live outside Germany.
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