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[News] The AmigaOne in Leeuwarden (photos)ANN.lu
Posted on 25-May-2002 17:32 GMT by petros1815122 comments
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The AmigaOne was presented in Leeuwarden today. Unfortunately, only openfirmware bios was shown. Photos of the presentation at http://www.amigascene.nl/nieuws/nieuws.htm . At around 15.00 Computer City brought the AmigaOne motherboard. It is the first sample of the 1.0a board. Because the motherboard was different from the one that Eyetech had, it was not possible to use the Linux from the old board. Because there was no more time for a new installation, we had to do only with the openfirmware bios. There are installed a IBM processor (without cooling!), 128MB, Soundblaster soundcard and a ATi Radeon 7500 AGP. It now waits for OS4.
The AmigaOne in Leeuwarden (photos) : Comment 51 of 122ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 26-May-2002 15:10 GMT
So it's a tweaked (for "copy protection") POP motherboard with conventional PC I/O and external logic, which will be hosting a GNU ELF tool chain and associated userspace. In other words, the objective for the Amiga community this year is to build an expensive proprietary version of the cheap, open Linux box.
The remaining bits that are "Amiga" are the APIs (like AROS) and somes bits of bundled software (mostly OS utility software that wouldn't be needed in another operating system)
So it seems AROS was right all along, the "important" bit of the Amiga is just a bunch of structures and function calls.
Writing an Amiga emulation environment for Linux sounds like a fun project to give a student next year. All one needs to do is create some shared libraries and a magic "Amiga" runtime loader (new binfmt or binfmt_misc). Of course a single student probably wouldn't get much further than running Amiga 'Hello World' because so many key libraries on the Amiga are closed source, but it would still be a fun project.
The AmigaOne in Leeuwarden (photos) : Comment 52 of 122ANN.lu
Posted by Ole-Egil on 26-May-2002 15:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 43 (anonymous coder):
Tell that to the creator of RemApollo. I'm betatesting a 512k kick 3.9 image for him. Works just nicely here.
The AmigaOne in Leeuwarden (photos) : Comment 53 of 122ANN.lu
Posted by Turrican on 26-May-2002 15:15 GMT
I knew a lot of people won't believe me.
But some of you should maybe consider the fact that I'm as well if not more informed than some big players of the Amiga drama. Especially those claiming they will have an OS on a certain hardware soon. As a matter of fact, I have some connections in the PowerPC industry.
Some of you tend to believe feary tales by certain personality quite easily and are not ready to face the truth.
No new OS for the Amiga community before this winter. And even. Don't hold your breath.
Your avenger,
Turrican
The AmigaOne in Leeuwarden (photos) : Comment 54 of 122ANN.lu
Posted by DaveW on 26-May-2002 15:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 53 (Turrican):
You know that orifice you just made noises out of? Well sew it up.
The AmigaOne in Leeuwarden (photos) : Comment 55 of 122ANN.lu
Posted by Patrick on 26-May-2002 15:56 GMT
In reply to Comment 53 (Turrican):
May the winds of time .. .. blow sawdust up your_______________.
Why do you waste your time on this site ...Go to the Xtra Poop (that's XP) and talk with your fellow classmates..
The Amigans are undaunted!
The AmigaOne in Leeuwarden (photos) : Comment 56 of 122ANN.lu
Posted by SlimJim on 26-May-2002 15:59 GMT
In reply to Comment 53 (Turrican):
Yes Turrican, you are our saviour.
I particularily like it when you in a so *constructive* and omnipotent manner
enlighten the rest of us without caring to state your sources whatsoverer...
[And yes, this is sarcasm if there ever was.]
.
SlimJim
The AmigaOne in Leeuwarden (photos) : Comment 57 of 122ANN.lu
Posted by anonymous on 26-May-2002 16:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 53 (Turrican):
Thanks for your non-partisan enlightenment.
Two points:
1. The world will not end if the AmigaOne is not demonstrated running OS4.0 in the next few days. The end-of-May milestone is irrelevant. Amiga, Hyperion and Eyetech have made it abundantly clear that a definitive date has not been set for availability. They have also consistently provided candid status updates, a gesture that very few commercial software vendors ever offer.
It's clear that nothing is going out the door until it's ready. If your survival cannot depend on intangibles it's simple: pick another option.
2. The more I read the cheap shot antics of the Pegasos/MorphOS crowd and their 'industry insider' information the more resolutely I support the OS4.0 effort. All we ever see is unsubstantiated mudslinging. It's not only annoying, it's unprofessional and dissuades me from giving any thought to investing in an effort that pays no respect to its potential customers.
You may not realize it but what you're doing is a disservice: at a certain point I stopped giving thought to the technical feasibility of the combination and started asking myself why I would ever want to deal with these people in the first place. You're chopping off your nose to spite your face.
The AmigaOne in Leeuwarden (photos) : Comment 58 of 122ANN.lu
Posted by Ole-Egil Hvitmyren on 26-May-2002 16:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 51 (Anonymous):
"So it's a tweaked (for "copy protection") POP motherboard with conventional PC I/O and external logic, which will be hosting a GNU ELF tool chain and associated userspace. In other words, the objective for the Amiga community this year is to build an expensive proprietary version of the cheap, open Linux box."
Uhm, my current amiga is a rather expensive Linux box, actually.
And just because the executables will be ELF doesn't mean the OS will be anything like Linux, idiot. It just means it'll be easier to port over the latest binutils etc from GNU (not to be confused with Linux, they aren't the same thing). I already run huge bits of GNU under AmigaOS, does that mean I don't have to upgrade?
I know I shouldn't feed the trolls, but I'm bored...
The AmigaOne in Leeuwarden (photos) : Comment 59 of 122ANN.lu
Posted by DaveW on 26-May-2002 18:30 GMT
Remember that guy who set up an elaborate spoof about WebTV buying the BoXeR from Antigravity?
LOL!!
The AmigaOne in Leeuwarden (photos) : Comment 60 of 122ANN.lu
Posted by Ole-Egil Hvitmyren on 26-May-2002 18:35 GMT
In reply to Comment 59 (DaveW):
The "WebTV is going to issue the following press release next week"-guy?
That wasn't HALF a good spoof, though.
The AmigaOne in Leeuwarden (photos) : Comment 61 of 122ANN.lu
Posted by DaveW on 26-May-2002 18:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 60 (Ole-Egil Hvitmyren):
It was good. Just like the #debian one with bffin the troll who is playing quake on his Amiga.
"My seester she no want me to play to quack"
The AmigaOne in Leeuwarden (photos) : Comment 62 of 122ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 26-May-2002 18:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 57 (anonymous):
>2. The more I read the cheap shot antics of the Pegasos/MorphOS crowd and
>their 'industry insider' information the more resolutely I support the OS4.0
>effort. All we ever see is unsubstantiated mudslinging. It's not only
>annoying, it's unprofessional and dissuades me from giving any thought to
>investing in an effort that pays no respect to its potential customers.
I find it surprising that you'd consider Turrican to be in the Pegasos/MorhpOS camp since he has often spoken similarily of Pegasos as well. You are jumping to conclusions here.
No side is perfect. Both are throwing plenty of mud, and both have some very sensible and talented people in them. Some might even count Amiga's unproven claims about MorphOS similarily wrong as well, or Ben Hermans comments about the order status of parts for Pegasos as such mud-throwing as well, or Ralph Schmidts earlier comments or whatever...
I'm willing to keep an open mind both ways. You do not seem to be, since any negative commentary on AmigaOne is automatically assumed to come from That Other Camp.
The AmigaOne in Leeuwarden (photos) : Comment 63 of 122ANN.lu
Posted by Ole-Egil Hvitmyren on 26-May-2002 18:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 62 (Anonymous):
Actually, the "well, bPlan has an industry partner who is only interested in running Linux" thingie is getting rather annoying, but I must agree there are iddjots in all camps. I'm a fanatic though, not an idiot. Big difference, that ;)
The AmigaOne in Leeuwarden (photos) : Comment 64 of 122ANN.lu
Posted by anarchic_teapot on 26-May-2002 19:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 34 (MIB):
(In Reply to Comment 32:)
>Henning: Yep, the CPU on Eyetech's demo to the French folk is 600MHz, but I'm >not sure if that directly correlates to this run of actually-sold boards.
As one of the "French folk" (I have a UK passport, btw), I would remind everyone that the CPU I saw was 500 MHz. The 600 MHz chip was to appear with the developer run. And it has, as all can now see.
The AmigaOne in Leeuwarden (photos) : Comment 65 of 122ANN.lu
Posted by KenH on 26-May-2002 20:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 47 (a):
>sorry, not everyone can come from such superior countries like you. Is believing in god backwards too for you?
Wasn't that your argument.
The AmigaOne in Leeuwarden (photos) : Comment 66 of 122ANN.lu
Posted by KenH on 26-May-2002 20:35 GMT
In reply to Comment 53 (Turrican):
I personally never thought it would be ready for the public in any half decent state a few months ago. But I do believe there will be something in quarter 3 or abit past it.
>No new OS for the Amiga community before this winter. And even. Don't hold your breath.
The AmigaOne in Leeuwarden (photos) : Comment 67 of 122ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 26-May-2002 21:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 15 (Anonymous):
"I dont like that BIOS screenshot. It looks like a PC BIOS. Why do we need a BIOS at all ? And if there has to be one, it should be a specific *Amiga* BIOS (like early startup screen on kickstart 3) instead of that sodding PC Award wannabe BIOS and PC font. Macs dont have a BIOS. Amigas dont have a BIOS.
I want my Amiga to be an Amiga. "
If you don't like it then don't spend too much time in front of your computer.
Get a life, ther is a life beyond the Amiga.
If you don't like all this then go fuck yourself.
The AmigaOne in Leeuwarden (photos) : Comment 68 of 122ANN.lu
Posted by Aram Iskenderian on 26-May-2002 21:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (Anonymous):
Anonymous (Wrote:
>>>Macs dont have a BIOS. Amigas dont have a BIOS.
>>
>>C'mon, every personal computer has a BIOS, even Macs and Amigas. Havent you >>ever held down both mouse buttons when you turned on your Amiga?
>
>Well, I just checked my Mac, and nope, definitely no BIOS there. How do I >access it ?
>
>And the early startup screen in kickstart 3 (it wasnt in earlier versions) >isnt a BIOS.
>
Are you sure that you understand technology?
EVERY computer has a BIOS, it could be named differently, work differently, but there has to be something that controlls the motherboard and prephirals before your favourite Operating System boots.
And you are wrong when it coems to the Mac.
Restart your Mac, after the startup sound, press and hold the key
combination Command-Option-O-F.
Now tell me what you see.
As for the Amiga, Kickstart works as a BIOS, one way or another.
Your computer will not operate magically on its own when there is no OS.
The AmigaOne in Leeuwarden (photos) : Comment 69 of 122ANN.lu
Posted by Aram Iskenderian on 26-May-2002 21:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 26 (Turrican):
Turrican Wrote:
>Here we are...
>
>We're end of may, no OS 4, and an AmigaOne with only Linux PPC and an openfirmware with no AGP, only one memory slot (you'll see), no internal cache support etc...
>
>See it my friends, no AOne this year with OS 4. Don't hold your breath.
>
>By the way, where is the Pegasos and Morphos ? June the 1st is getting closer...
>
>Don't hold your breath Amigans, liars are still in the neighborhood.
>
Dude, look up the lottery numbers for the next week while you're there too....
The AmigaOne in Leeuwarden (photos) : Comment 70 of 122ANN.lu
Posted by Stefan Burström on 26-May-2002 22:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 26 (Turrican):
>We're end of may, no OS 4, and an AmigaOne with only Linux PPC and an >openfirmware with no AGP, only one memory slot (you'll see), no internal cache >support etc...
Check out http://home-3.tiscali.nl/%7Eamiga/AmigaONE250402/DSC00009.JPG
and you'll see the 2 slots.
And if the OpenFirmware doesn't support AGP, how does it then display the
boot screen. Besides, who cares about OpenFirmware when AOS4.0 can handle
the AGP port and turn on the internal caches?
/Stefan
The AmigaOne in Leeuwarden (photos) : Comment 71 of 122ANN.lu
Posted by Joe "Floid" Kanowitz on 26-May-2002 23:13 GMT
Henning: Doh. I really should've kept my mouth shut- I was on the way out the door while writing that, and clicked through to your link assuming it was a mirror of the older page (similar digital camera numbering naming convention).
Anarchic: I meant no insult, just couldn't remember exactly which group/publication/name the preview was associated with, and didn't want to guess wrong. At least I know where I got that 500MHz idea from now...
The AmigaOne in Leeuwarden (photos) : Comment 72 of 122ANN.lu
Posted by anonymous on 27-May-2002 01:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 62 (Anonymous):
Jumping to conclusions? How about wading through an endless stream of incendiary comments?
No one has claimed that either camp is pristine here, but with no provocation we get the same drill every time and it's not just tit for tat.
The AmigaOne in Leeuwarden (photos) : Comment 73 of 122ANN.lu
Posted by anonymous coder on 27-May-2002 03:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 52 (Ole-Egil):
> I'm betatesting a 512k kick 3.9 image for him.
And how was this image built? The only way is to have all kicktags de-relocated
(or recompiled) and relink the whole rom image.
Which kicktags were left out? (no, everything does NOT fit! V40.x is already very crowded)
Who compiled this image?
For which system(s) the image was built for? A4000? A4000T?
The AmigaOne in Leeuwarden (photos) : Comment 74 of 122ANN.lu
Posted by Ole-Egil Hvitmyren on 27-May-2002 06:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 73 (anonymous coder):
Well, _some_ bits were left out, but I seriously doubt that he left out half of it (Dave originally claimed the ROM was now 1MB). The BB2 patch is 256k, the original ROM is 512k, please patch 512k with 256k and get more than 768k. You can't, can you? That's right. So it's a lot closer to half a meg than a full meg. Nitpicker.
The AmigaOne in Leeuwarden (photos) : Comment 75 of 122ANN.lu
Posted by EmGee on 27-May-2002 07:29 GMT
Here we go again......
Showing a developerboard to the not so techie people (see the comments on BIOS/Kickstart flames, come on, EVERY computer needs software to do some bootstrapping!), and they immediatly jump to conclusions about final versions. <sigh>
Did Commodore EVER showed developerboards to the world ?? (except in for the A1000 release breadboards back in 1984/5 at the CES). If those people saw that board they would go complain immediatly again ("That won't fit in my bedroom", "where do I plug my Atari VCS2600 joystick" comes to my mind :)
Maybe a tip for Amiga Inc/Eytech : only show the final release, with all bells and wisthles working.
Regards,
Emgee
The AmigaOne in Leeuwarden (photos) : Comment 76 of 122ANN.lu
Posted by Julian Cassin on 27-May-2002 07:35 GMT
I was looking at the Amiga One BIOS pictures at
http://www.amigascene.nl/nieuws/nieuws.htm
It is a little worrying, have they discarded the lovely flexible elegant
(although slightly needed updating) Amiga Boot ROM with a shitbox (pc) style
BIOS?
I like the fact that all my HDDs are automatically detected with the ROMs
inbuilt on the various SCSI cards, I like the way I can turn on/off any
partition, boot from any flagged bootable partition, boot with no startup
etc...
I might be jumping the gun as the pictures are not very comprehensive, but
if they do have such a shitbox (pc) style BIOS, then they will lose a
potential customer...
Julian
The AmigaOne in Leeuwarden (photos) : Comment 77 of 122ANN.lu
Posted by Ole-Egil Hvitmyren on 27-May-2002 07:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 76 (Julian Cassin):
IT IS CALLED OPEN FIRMWARE!
It's not derived from the PC BIOS any more than the Kickstart is.
I'm sure we're all sad to see you go.
The AmigaOne in Leeuwarden (photos) : Comment 78 of 122ANN.lu
Posted by Julian Cassin on 27-May-2002 08:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 77 (Ole-Egil Hvitmyren):
I never said it was derived from a PC bios, I said it was a PC-Style BIOS - I might even be wrong.
They may even make it support 15.6KHz, boot with no startup, enable/disable any partition connected to ANY scsi card with it's onboard ROM etc...
But, in all probability, I doubt they have chosen to keep the elegance of the Amiga's original ROM and gone for some cheap crap 3rd party one. Call it negative thinking, but they should try keep *EVERY* good feature of the Amiga, not through out *ANY*.
The AmigaOne in Leeuwarden (photos) : Comment 79 of 122ANN.lu
Posted by Julian Cassin on 27-May-2002 08:21 GMT
In reply to Comment 77 (Ole-Egil Hvitmyren):
Also, where has the lovely Amiga look & feel gone from the BIOS?
I guess since the AmigaOne is licenced, it won't stop another manufacturer from producing an Amiga with an Amiga-style BIOS, but I will have to wait...
Julian
The AmigaOne in Leeuwarden (photos) : Comment 80 of 122ANN.lu
Posted by Graham on 27-May-2002 09:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 76 (Julian Cassin):
Erm, how can you mistake a 640x480 graphical screen with a text mode PC BIOS?
This is an OpenFirmware system, not a PC BIOS. Big difference. Both are firmware of course, like Kickstart also includes firmware for booting, early startup menu, etc.
The AmigaOne in Leeuwarden (photos) : Comment 81 of 122ANN.lu
Posted by Ole-Egil Hvitmyren on 27-May-2002 10:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 80 (Graham):
The point is that OF has become something of a standard in the non-x86 world. It's a matter of actually having ANY card support you... The _ONLY_ alternative you have from using someone elses OF, is writing your own OF (bPlan did this, afaik). This takes time, though. And it doesn't excactly pay off in the long run if you could have saved that time by licensing someone elses working code (reinventing the wheel to get prettier spokes, anyone?) and spent more time on making the OS work instead. Just let it go, ok? There's not gonna be a proprietary Amiga Firmware anytime soon.
The AmigaOne in Leeuwarden (photos) : Comment 82 of 122ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 27-May-2002 10:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 76 (Julian Cassin):
Gee, one less idiot. That would be a damn shame.
The AmigaOne in Leeuwarden (photos) : Comment 83 of 122ANN.lu
Posted by Graham on 27-May-2002 11:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 81 (Ole-Egil Hvitmyren):
I never said there would be? I haven't got any issue with OpenFirmware to "let it go"..?
It looked all fine and dandy to me in the screenshots. I imagine that in the final motherboards with the final licensed OpenFirmware that it will work properly and probably have an Eyetech logo as well.
Yes, writing your own OpenFirmware is a strange thing to do when you can just license one.
The AmigaOne in Leeuwarden (photos) : Comment 84 of 122ANN.lu
Posted by Simon on 27-May-2002 11:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 76 (Julian Cassin):
> It is a little worrying,
Don't worry, this isn't for morons like you.
>slightly needed updating)
Just like your attitude.
>shitbox (pc) style
>BIOS?
Oh no!! Text!!! Save me!!!!!!!!
Fact is, I can change more opition than I'll ever understand from my PC's BIOS and I LOVE it! Tweak till your hearts content (if you're not afraid of text mode that is, BOO!).
> I like the fact that all my HDDs are automatically detected
Well, all my IDE drives are. I really don't know how SCSI cards are handled. But I'm sure that it is possible to choose what drive you boot off.
>the pictures are not very comprehensive
Christ, shoot the messenger why don't you!! If they weren't good enough why didn't you go there and take your own pictures???
>shitbox (pc) style BIOS
Grow up. The 'shit box' style PC BIOS is here to stay.
>lose a
>potential customer...
You won't buy the machine becasue it's BIOS screen isn't pretty enough? Look, have a sleep on this and if you still feel the same way, then fuck off.
> They may even make it support 15.6KHz
I hope that I'm missing something here. I am just lost for words.... 15Khz?!?!?!??!
>cheap crap 3rd party one
Yeah, gee, Eyetech should have invested a heap of money and half a year in writing a BIOS from scratch so it would look pretty for you. Thats a VERY GOOD IDEA. You are a FAR SIGHTED person.
>Call it negative thinking,
No, I'll call it 'not thinking at all'
> Also, where has the lovely Amiga look & feel gone from the BIOS?
Get over it all ready.
>AmigaOne is licenced, it won't stop another manufacturer from producing an Amiga >with an Amiga-style BIOS
I don't know who else is making OS4 boards. If Eyetech can change the BIOS then thay migh be able to make it look all nicey yay happy are you all right now? for you... But you might have to fuck off if they can't make the pointer and buttons look 'right'.
I'll go back to me beer now
The AmigaOne in Leeuwarden (photos) : Comment 85 of 122ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 27-May-2002 11:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 84 (Simon):
Wow, I must of left same cr's at the end there.
The AmigaOne in Leeuwarden (photos) : Comment 86 of 122ANN.lu
Posted by Ole-Egil Hvitmyren on 27-May-2002 11:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 83 (Graham):
Sorry, Graham. Mixed up who I was replying to.
The AmigaOne in Leeuwarden (photos) : Comment 87 of 122ANN.lu
Posted by Julian Cassin on 27-May-2002 12:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 81 (Ole-Egil Hvitmyren):
does that mean that it is highly unlikely that we will ever get firmware as good as the old? that detects all the harddrives regardless of which scsi controller they are on? that lets you boot from any partition? that lets you boot without a startup sequence? that has an Amiga look & feel?
The AmigaOne in Leeuwarden (photos) : Comment 88 of 122ANN.lu
Posted by Julian Cassin on 27-May-2002 12:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 83 (Graham):
I think you miss the point, I want a 100% Amiga, hardware + OS. If it isn't Amiga hardware it might as well be a clone PC with AmigaOS on it - well, that's what Amiga One is appearing to be - so much for the unkept promises about putting our Amiga 1200 in the same Power Tower case as the Amiga One...
The AmigaOne in Leeuwarden (photos) : Comment 89 of 122ANN.lu
Posted by Julian Cassin on 27-May-2002 12:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 84 (Simon):
why do you have such a problem because I want something you don't?
I got my Amiga because of the hardware - not the OS!
The AmigaOne in Leeuwarden (photos) : Comment 90 of 122ANN.lu
Posted by comankh on 27-May-2002 12:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 27 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
I bet you are. On christmas. 2005.
The AmigaOne in Leeuwarden (photos) : Comment 91 of 122ANN.lu
Posted by Simon on 27-May-2002 12:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 89 (Julian Cassin):
> why do you have such a problem because I want something you don't?
>I got my Amiga because of the hardware - not the OS!
Look, you either like the idea of a G3 600Mhz based AmigaOne with OS4 or you don't. I think you are an idiot for fence sitting becasue you don't like the BIOS. It is such a SMALL thing.
Why do you have a problem with my opinion? This is ANN, everyone is mean.
The AmigaOne in Leeuwarden (photos) : Comment 92 of 122ANN.lu
Posted by amigammc on 27-May-2002 12:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 76 (Julian Cassin):
>but if they do have such a shitbox (pc) style BIOS, then they will lose a
>potential customer...
When I think the community has reached its lowest level of intelligent, here comes someone digging even deeper... :-/
The AmigaOne in Leeuwarden (photos) : Comment 93 of 122ANN.lu
Posted by GUI Freak on 27-May-2002 13:09 GMT
(I preface the following rant on the possibility that
the BIOS screen pictured is the one we end up with.
If Hyperion has something else up their sleaves, then
I stand corrected:)
Some techies often seem to miss the point. Tweaking
can be fun, but it should also be somewhat accessable
to the unwashed masses who might want to have a nice,
usable interface. The Amiga OS will always be doomed
to remain a hobby OS as long as attitudes like this
are allowed to prevail.
NORMAL computer users are very intimidated by the
ugly, unfriendly user interface of the Pee Cee without
it's Windows[dressing]. We should endeavor to do better
and I think we can - given the right motivation. Trying
to save time isn't a very good motivation if the product
delivered ends up just as ugly and unfriendly as the PC.
What has been accomplished then? We need regular people
to start using the Amiga again, not just programmers.
People have to get out of this mindset that power is
everything. Usability should be just as important on
the new Amiga OS and moving away from cludgy, half-baked
BIOS screens (that seem to be little more than an after-
thought) won't cut it in the marketplace anymore. Ever
wondered why most PC users (who have a clue, at any rate)
seem to spend so much time cursing M$?!
The AmigaOne in Leeuwarden (photos) : Comment 94 of 122ANN.lu
Posted by Adam Kowalczyk on 27-May-2002 13:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 76 (Julian Cassin):
> It is a little worrying, have they discarded the lovely flexible elegant
> (although slightly needed updating) Amiga Boot ROM with a shitbox (pc) style
> BIOS?
Hey you mean I'm not going to have a machine that flickers a dark grey screen and waits some time looking for drives, occasionally not find any and ask me for a boot disk? It's not going to occasionally flash up a red, yellow, or green screen? My god, what have I bought? It's only going to display useful information on the boot sequence...what a piece of sh*t.
Please note the above was sarcasm in case you couldn't tell. OpenFirmware will be a welcome change to me. Julian does have a point about being able to boot without the startup-sequence...that would have it's benefits.
The AmigaOne in Leeuwarden (photos) : Comment 95 of 122ANN.lu
Posted by Christian on 27-May-2002 13:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 89 (Julian Cassin):
Since you apparently just woke up from hibernation, the new Amiga (or any other similar system for that matter) will not be able to be plugged in to a TV, i.e. there won't be 15kHz support. And you know why? Because there will no longer be custom graphics and sound hardware on the board. *Gasp!*
And that by itself means you will not have the Amiga as you're used to (A500 or A1200), you will be able to get some decent up-to-date hardware instead, that you can actually upgrade easily.
And now I suggest you read up on the developments over the last 12 months, before you get lynched.
-Christian
PS: Don't even dare to come back and ask for a new custom chipset or the like. And what I wrote is valid for *any* new system that might or might not come (Pegasos/AmigaOne). So you better get used to it.
The AmigaOne in Leeuwarden (photos) : Comment 96 of 122ANN.lu
Posted by Simon on 27-May-2002 13:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 93 (GUI Freak):
>Tweaking
>can be fun, but it should also be somewhat accessable
>to the unwashed masses
No!!! It should not, because they'll fuck up their machines!
>The Amiga OS will always be doomed
>to remain a hobby OS
Yes. It will. The AmigaOne is NOT going to change this no matter how optimistic you are.
> NORMAL computer users are very intimidated by the
>ugly, unfriendly user interface of the Pee Cee without
>it's Windows[dressing].
Good, if they are intimidated then they shouldn't mess with it. Besides no one FORCES a user to enter the BIOS. I am SURE that the AmigaOne systems will come with the BIOS all set and ready to go, may god strike may down if it not be so.
>Trying
>to save time isn't a very good
Absolute bullshit. Way, way, way too much time has been wasted. WAY too much. Spending more time making the BIOS look nice for a few people who apparently aren't intelligent enough to configure it is .... take a guess...
>We need regular people
>to start using the Amiga again,
If you mean winning back PC users (like me). Well, a nice BIOS won't win me back. But OS4 might, I really, really miss my old miggy.
> People have to get out of this mindset that power is
>everything.
If I want to play fullscreen divX movies, MP3's and browse the web then power is important.
>Usability should be just as important on
>the new Amiga OS
It is. What does the OS have to do with the BIOS? When I go into BIOS on my PC I don't see windows XP. I see a text screen, are you saying that windows XP should be in ROM so that the one or two times in this computers life that I need to access the BIOS I can have it look like my OS??
>cludgy, half-baked
>BIOS screens
?!??! It's a BIOS screen!!! Get over it! it a fucking BIOS screen that most users will NEVER have to see.
>won't cut it in the marketplace anymore
If the marketplace is people like YOU than nothing but a brand new designed-from-scratch supercomputer with a very cool looking BIOS wont cut it.
>Ever
>wondered why most PC users (who have a clue, at any rate)
>seem to spend so much time cursing M$?!
Because they don't have an Amiga to curse???
God speed OS4 and the AmigaOne. There might be some hope left.
The AmigaOne in Leeuwarden (photos) : Comment 97 of 122ANN.lu
Posted by Graham on 27-May-2002 13:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 93 (GUI Freak):
Microsoft never wrote the BIOS, and most people never enter the BIOS. The BIOS is not Windows (!?). It is a hardware configuration utility that sets registers in the chipset and detects hardware for booting, etc. PC BIOSes also include legacy I/O routines, because once in the distant past, DOS relied upon code in the BIOS to run. Those routines are still handy for people writing alternative operating systems, or boot loaders, or whatever!
It is there for people that want to tweak - does what it looks like matter?
Honestly?
OpenFirmware is more powerful and flexible than the old PC BIOS. As Macs use OpenFirmware, and can boot off of any attached media, I think it is safe to assume that the AmigaOne will be able to boot off of any attached media. Macs don't show any information at all until the computer is booting MacOS. I imagine that the AmigaOne will be the same. You are not forced to enter the Firmware. The Firmware does not exist forever on screen. It is not providing any OS functionality. It just gets the machine going happily. It is an advanced modern version of the A1000 "boot kickstart from floppy" :)
Anyone that bases their computer buying decisions based purely upon the look of the firmware is an idiot.
The AmigaOne in Leeuwarden (photos) : Comment 98 of 122ANN.lu
Posted by Ole-Egil Hvitmyren on 27-May-2002 13:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 97 (Graham):
Factors people buy computers based on:
Colour of motherboard
Decoration on box
Number of ILT (Important Looking TLAs (Three Letter Acronyms)) in the ad.
Number of GBW (General BuzzWords)
;)
Anyone care to extend the list?
The AmigaOne in Leeuwarden (photos) : Comment 99 of 122ANN.lu
Posted by Simon on 27-May-2002 13:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 98 (Ole-Egil Hvitmyren):
I thought it was all about what the BIOS screen looks like. Thats the reson I bought this sexy C64. You should see this two shades of blue thing. But I can't seem to connect to the net.... Hmmm...
The AmigaOne in Leeuwarden (photos) : Comment 100 of 122ANN.lu
Posted by GUI Freak on 27-May-2002 14:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 96 (Simon):
Agreed that to much time has been wasted, but a
little polish would make everyones (except the pro-
gramers, of course) lives a little easier.
The programers need to think about how to include/
engage the end user, not how to shut them out.
It's the overall look and and feel of the machine.
The way it looks while it's starting up is just one
(somewhat important) element in the total package.
Product design is something that will become more
important as computer technology moves forward. For
better or worse, we probably have Apple (and their
cheepo Pee Cee, poorly executed, lame, knockoff imi-
taters) to blame/thank for this. Open firmware is
not the issue, it's the accesability/ease of use, and
yes, how well designed the interface of said OF that
gets me interested/excited about a new OS. You seem to
take a very utilitarian view of things. That to me
is more the M$ way of doing things - "as long as it
works, who cares what it looks like". This is very
oldschool thinking in this day and age.
One of the things I have always liked about Amiga OS
is that it had a nice combination of power and use-
ability. For it's time, the classic Amiga OS was
very well thought out. I'm only suggesting that those
who can (the folks at Hyperion) do there best on the
design front.
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