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[Rant] AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web siteANN.lu
Posted on 06-Jun-2002 04:30 GMT by Seehund280 comments
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AmigaPOP.8bit.co.uk is finally online!

Here you'll hopefully find all information you could possibly want about the "AmigaOS distribution policies and POP/PPC hardware petition". I hope the background information and FAQ will be especially helpful to clear up any confusion surrounding these issues.

If you have not yet signed the petition, then please do so now! Please help spreading the word by linking to AmigaPOP.8bit.co.uk. It's not too late to save our favourite OS and a unified POP-based hardware market!

In other news, I have finally managed to get in touch with the PetitionOnline.com administrators. The few abuse and sabotage attempts so far have been removed from the signatory listings. Not that any garbage would ever reach the recipient of our petition, but I understand some thought that it didn't look too good...
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 101 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 06-Jun-2002 14:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 45 (Samface):
"1. It's the cheapest PPC hardware available on the entire computer market as of today.
2. It's about half the price of existing PPC hardware currently available on the Amiga market.
3. You cannot compare apples with peaches, I don't think any x86 hardware manufacturer out
there could make cheaper PPC hardware."
All true. The mistake is in using PPC at all. Even if you insist on a
custom motherboard for protection reasons, it could have used the
fastest available Athlon.
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 102 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 06-Jun-2002 14:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 101 (Don Cox):
PLEASE! Please, please, please, pretty *puh-leese* don't start another "Why not AmigaOS for x86" thread.
How about a "Why not Windows for PPC" thread for a change? The next thread could be a combination of both... ;-)
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 103 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 06-Jun-2002 14:20 GMT
In reply to Comment 53 (Robert):
"So should we all just buy pc's because you get more mHz for your £ ??
"
We should buy motherboards based on AMD processors. I simply cannot
see the point of using a PPC in 2002 when we have a choice.
There is no chance of persuading any more than a few thousand existing
Amiga users to buy these boards. Anyone whose Windows machine is at
all up to date will laugh at them.
And the result of restricting the Amiga market to a few thousand users
will be that the sales of software will continue to be at most a few
dozen copies, at worst zero. So there is no incentive for anyone to
write new programs.
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 104 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 06-Jun-2002 14:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 103 (Don Cox):
Shhhhh!!!! Please stop it already! Maybe someone actually read that post...
;-)
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 105 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by |Lando| on 06-Jun-2002 14:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 101 (Don Cox):
>All true. The mistake is in using PPC at all. Even if you insist on a
>custom motherboard for protection reasons, it could have used the
>fastest available Athlon.
*Yawn*
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 106 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 06-Jun-2002 14:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 103 (Don Cox):
x86 is cheap, fast, and the most available hardware out there. So is Windows when it comes to software. I'm afraid it's not about price, speed or availability, it's about the interest of a completely different platform, hardware as well as software. Amiga will always choose it's own path or it wouldn't be Amiga, end of story. Live with it or leave it.
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 107 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Lukas Stehlik on 06-Jun-2002 14:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 100 (Menthos):
> Example: Me and my friend are going to buy "Amiga" motherboards. I buy an AmigaOne with AmigaOS4 and my friend buys an Pegasos (with MorphOS). He takes my AOS4 CD and make a copy and runs it on his pegasos. Easy as pancakes!
"AOS4 CD compatible with A1 and PPC":
Ok, and what about classic Amiga friend??? :)
No, I think that this problem is easy -> A1 version of AOS4 cannot run on Pegasos or classic Amiga.
I am against piracy!!! They could make hardware protection
via USB or something else and let people to choose their hardware!
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 108 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by |Lando| on 06-Jun-2002 14:38 GMT
You know exactly what Don's going to come out with before he even puts fingers to keyboard. He posts the exact same thing (maybe with the words in a slightly different order) about 4 times in every thread that appears on ann even if its completely unrelated (like this one).
I think we all know your point of view Don, its ok to stop telling us now.
Personally I hate x86 architecture and would not like to see AmigaOS running on x86. (I'll only say this once, I dont need to keep repeating the same thing over and over and...)
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 109 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by cOrpse on 06-Jun-2002 14:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 101 (Don Cox):
"All true. The mistake is in using PPC at all. Even if you insist on a
custom motherboard for protection reasons, it could have used the
fastest available Athlon."
And kill all possibility of using the few apps we have to cling on to ? Unless you want to develop a decent set of games and utils for an x86 amigaos and quickly the answer starts with f and ends with u ;).
cOrpse - It burns Its burns !! mmm it burns :P
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 110 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Mekanix on 06-Jun-2002 15:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
... oh pleaseeee .... you sound sooo 20th century... you must be the last one using the Anti-Piracy speech to justify anti-comsumer measures. Everyone else have switched to the Anti-Terror speech instead. It's sooo much more powerfull ("Do YOU want to support terrorist? No? Well, then shove it and buy our überdongelised hardly usable product").
Anyway, how many years have softwarevendors been fighting piracy? 15-20 years? How many years have they been loosing?
So how many month will pass by 'till AmigaOS have been hacked, cracked and patched and starts to show up on various piratesites? It's just a matter of time. I know it, you know it, everyone knows it. Furthermore, pirates actually would end up with a better product, a product where the *user* gets to choose his HW-gear.
So why these anti-consumer measures, when they wont stop piracy anyways?
Well, one just have to look at the consequenses of Amiga Inc.'s licensing scheme(*).
1) When Joe Amigauser goes shopping for at new POP-board he will need to decide right then and there whether or not he might want to test AmigaOS4 sometime in the distant future (he will not be able to buy it later). Uncertanty propably will persuade him to buy a dongelised POP-board bundled with AmigaOS4, even though he might end up never using it. Increased sale for Amiga Inc. on questionable ethical grounds.
2) They've been FUDing bplan/MorphOS for years calling them thiefs, uncooperative and whatnot. But never actually providing any proofs for their claims to the public nor any judges (doubt Amiga Inc. will *ever* sue... smells like they've got no case whatsoever...). Now Amiga Inc. not only wants them to dongelise their Pegasos-board but to bundle AmigaOS4 alongside their MorphOS, thus increasing the price of a pegasos-board. Wonder why bplan aren't so keen on Amiga Inc.'s "offer". All this of cause makes the pegasos less atractive for those still undecided whether they'd like to test AmigaOS4 or not. Unethical and uncompetitive.
Amiga Inc.'s licensing scheme is just one step short of being a clone of the M$ OEM-deals that have been ruled illegal. Is this the company Amiga users wants to support?
... what puzzles me though, is what have happened to Fleecy to make him turn his back to the users and his "pro-user-quest" and go pure gatism?
(*)Well, I don't know Amiga Inc.'s licensing shceme i datail, so I've might have missed some bits here and there...
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 111 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Lukas Stehlik on 06-Jun-2002 15:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 110 (Mekanix):
YOU ARE RIGHT! I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU!
But my english is so bad, that I cannot write comments like you.
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 112 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by smithy on 06-Jun-2002 16:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 110 (Mekanix):
With his well-balanced and logically argued comments, and which contain no personal attacks so they won't hound away moderators unlike some, Mekanix is fast becoming the voice of reason on ANN.
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 113 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by |Lando| on 06-Jun-2002 16:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 110 (Mekanix):
Jees.. another idiot. Are all you MOS guys sharing the same defective braincell or something ? It doesnt seem to matter how many times you're rold something it just doesn't sink in.
>Anyway, how many years have softwarevendors been fighting piracy? 15-20 years?
Software vendors haven't. Software developers have.
>How many years have they been loosing?
"losing" - 15 years or so ? since the 8-bit days...
>So how many month will pass by 'till AmigaOS have been hacked, cracked and >patched and starts to show up on various piratesites? It's just a matter of >time. I know it, you know it, everyone knows it.
Probably. I'd prefer a proper Kickstart 4.0 ROM and ditch that shitty PC-Clone BIOS.
>So why these anti-consumer measures, when they wont stop piracy anyways?
>2) They've been FUDing bplan/MorphOS for years calling them thiefs,
>uncooperative and whatnot.
They said MorphOS contained copyrighted Amiga code. It did / does. That is a fact. If it didnt, then Mos wouldn't have had anything to worry about - they could have just gone ahead and released it. The fact that after Amiga Inc. told them that they couldnt use the stolen code MOS then announced a delay in the release is the proof. Ask laire.
>But never actually providing any proofs for their
>claims to the public nor any judges (doubt Amiga Inc. will *ever* sue...
>smells like they've got no case whatsoever...).
They won't sue because MorphOS team is removing the stolen Amiga code from their OS. If MorphOS had been released as a commercial product with the copyrighted code still there then Amiga Inc could / would have sued and would have won.
>Now Amiga Inc. not only wants
>them to dongelise their Pegasos-board but to bundle AmigaOS4 alongside their
>MorphOS, thus increasing the price of a pegasos-board. Wonder why bplan aren't
>so keen on Amiga Inc.'s "offer". All this of cause makes the pegasos less
>atractive for those still undecided whether they'd like to test AmigaOS4 or
>not.
Huh ? If bplan would like Pegasos to be able to run AmigaOS4 then they have to adhere to the same terms that every other prospective OS4 platform has to adhere to. You're saying Pegasos should be made a special case ? That would be unethical and uncompetitive.
>Unethical and uncompetitive.
Wrong. Every prospective OS4.0 platform gets exactly the same terms. As has been explained over and over again...
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 114 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by JoBBo on 06-Jun-2002 16:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 113 (|Lando|):
"Jees.. another idiot. Are all you MOS guys sharing the same defective braincell or something ?"
Mekanix is well known to be a fan of Amithlon and the idea of a native AmigaOSx86. Calling him a "MOS guy" is outright stupid!
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 115 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by |Lando| on 06-Jun-2002 16:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 114 (JoBBo):
>"Jees.. another idiot. Are all you MOS guys sharing the same defective
>braincell or something ?"
>
>Mekanix is well known to be a fan of Amithlon and the idea of a native
>AmigaOSx86. Calling him a "MOS guy" is outright stupid!
Well I stand by the "idiot" part :P
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 116 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 06-Jun-2002 16:36 GMT
In reply to Comment 110 (Mekanix):
Aaaaahh... But you're missing the main reason for this whole license thing. You see, even if they did drop their license policy, we would still have the compatibility problem to solve which won't be solved without cooperation from the hardware manufacturer. Amiga Inc. and their AmigaOS4 development partners must have support from the hardware manufacturer regardless if the hardware is POP-based or not, and that's exactly what Amiga Inc. is offering to the hardware manufacturer by this license. The license is an agreement between the hardware manufacturer and Amiga Inc. that they will cooperate in order to ensure compatibility between their products, provide the consumer with the two products combined as one quality product, and at the same time prevent piracy through the ROM code protection and bundling the OS to reduce the need for piracy. You see, this is what Amiga Inc. is offering *every* hardware manufacturer wanting to have AmigaOS4 support and all of their hardware partners have to sign the very same license, noone excluded or favoured in any way.
It's a great way of enabling any hardware manufacturer out there to have AmigaOS4 support for their product if they like while at the same time ensuring a quality experience for the customer regardless of which Amiga licensed hardware he/she decides to buy.
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 117 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by JoBBo on 06-Jun-2002 16:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 113 (|Lando|):
"They said MorphOS contained copyrighted Amiga code. It did / does. That is a fact. If it didnt, then Mos wouldn't have had anything to worry about - they could have just gone ahead and released it. The fact that after Amiga Inc. told them that they couldnt use the stolen code MOS then announced a delay in the release is the proof. Ask laire."
Which, once again, is bullshit.
If anybody in the MorphOS team had access to the AmigaOS3.1 source code at any point in time, MorphOS is illegal as long as it offers Amiga compatibility out of the box. It doesn't matter if Laire or anybody else actually *re-used* parts of the original AmigaOS sourcecode for MorphOS.
So your claim of proof is worth a shit.
"They won't sue because MorphOS team is removing the stolen Amiga code from their OS. If MorphOS had been released as a commercial product with the copyrighted code still there then Amiga Inc could / would have sued and would have won."
bPlan are not removing anything at all. Instead, they are *adding* their own Workbench replacement so nobody will need a copy of AmigaOS in order to be able to use a desktop environment with MorphOS as it was announced in Cologne last autumn.
Get your facts straight, dude!
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 118 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by cOrpse on 06-Jun-2002 16:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 114 (JoBBo):
"Mekanix is well known to be a fan of Amithlon and the idea of a native AmigaOSx86. Calling him a "MOS guy" is outright stupid!"
Seems to me alot of the people that are fans of x86 amigaOS are also the people that know shit. Most of these people haven't invested endless amounts of money in ppc cards and the only software we have for them *hyperion games* , this is also going to be the only modernish software we're going to have on the amiga one , going x86 now would leave us with nothing. But there again most of these people just want to run a decent os on the box of crap they got landed with at pc world. If your not willing to put your cash on the table don't get involved , we don't need any lackies at this time.
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 119 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by TimeWillTell on 06-Jun-2002 16:44 GMT
To find out who is being sincere with their reasons for doing use a
little logic. Amiga Inc. makes money from software sales.
Hyperion makes money from software sales. Both of these
companies say that they will lose software sales if there is not
some form of a dongle to prevent piracy. Why would they lie?
Software sales is their main existence, in Hyperion's case their
ONLY existence.
Seehund has been attacking Amiga Inc. in every forum that he
posts on for the past year/years. Now, he says that this would be
good for Amiga Inc. Whereas, I believe he has every right to
attack Amiga Inc., somehow, his motives seem of dubious origins.
This is seems all the more true when reading the less than sincere
description of Amiga Inc.'s license policy.
I think that many people who have signed this petition have
never spoken to Bill for direct clarification of their concerns, It is
my hope that because of the release of these products, all of this
will be moot in a very short time.
But then only TimeWillTell
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 120 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Mark Olsen on 06-Jun-2002 16:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 113 (|Lando|):
> Jees.. another idiot. Are all you MOS guys sharing the same defective
> braincell or something ? It doesnt seem to matter how many times you're
> rold something it just doesn't sink in.
Well, last time I checked, Mekanix favoured Amithlon/x86.
However, you seem to be sharing Hermans' braincell, you certainly ate his FUD raw.
</flame>
>> 2) They've been FUDing bplan/MorphOS for years calling them thiefs,
>> uncooperative and whatnot.
> They said MorphOS contained copyrighted Amiga code. It did / does.
> That is a fact. If it didnt, then Mos wouldn't have had anything to
> worry about - they could have just gone ahead and released it. The fact
> that after Amiga Inc. told them that they couldnt use the stolen code
> MOS then announced a delay in the release is the proof. Ask laire.
That only shows how little you know about MOS. And that you haven't "asked laire" yourself either.
I dare you, put forward some evidence that MorphOS contains any code from AmigaOS.
Too bad that you can't.
Amiga Inc. can't either.
But who cares, lies work just as great, don't they?
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 121 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by |Lando| on 06-Jun-2002 16:54 GMT
In reply to Comment 117 (JoBBo):
>If anybody in the MorphOS team had access to the AmigaOS3.1 source code at any
>point in time
There's no IF about it.
>bPlan are not removing anything at all. Instead, they are *adding* their own
>Workbench replacement so nobody will need a copy of AmigaOS in order to be
>able to use a desktop environment with MorphOS as it was announced in Cologne
>last autumn.
Heheh bPlan are adding a Workbench replacement you say? bPlan make the mobo thats all. They have fa to do with the OS. And you tell me to get my facts straight...?
BTW dont spend too much money on your Pegasos.. its being manufactured by DCE so it'll probably die after 3 months like everything else they make. ;)
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 122 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Troels E on 06-Jun-2002 17:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 74 (Lukas Stehlik):
Some of the people behind Bplan/MoreFuss (Those that where at P5) have proved themselves to be dishonest businessmen before, what should stop them from being dishonest again?
I think Amiga's licensing policy is a great thing but I dont think Bplan could pass their quality check.
But anyway, Bplan still havent delivered the developer board ordered by Hyperion a long time ago.
It is so obvious that Bplan don't want OS4 on the PegaSOS, license or not!
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 123 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by dammy on 06-Jun-2002 17:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 106 (Samface):
Come on Samface, these POP mobos are not Amigas. Oh I forgot, it's got a nifty Boingball sticker on it. Oh yeah, that makes it an Amiga, riiiiiiight.
Dammy
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 124 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Amifan on 06-Jun-2002 17:03 GMT
In reply to Comment 71 (Lukas Stehlik):
If bPLAN really cares about what potentional customers want, then why don't they provide a Pegasos/MorphOS/Linux bundle and an Pegasos/AmigaOS4 bundle....
Unless their own licence excludes this option ofcourse.
I heard that a Pegasos must be bundled with MorphOS.
So I guess that's two different licences which collide.
So who's starting a petition against bPLAN then?
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 125 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by JoBBo on 06-Jun-2002 17:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 121 (|Lando|):
>>If anybody in the MorphOS team had access to the AmigaOS3.1 source code at any
>>point in time
> There's no IF about it.
If you can't prove it, just shut up. But then again, I guess you just cannot stop spreading bullshit, can you? Must be some sort of mental illness of yours...
>>bPlan are not removing anything at all. Instead, they are *adding* their own
>>Workbench replacement so nobody will need a copy of AmigaOS in order to be
>>able to use a desktop environment with MorphOS as it was announced in Cologne
>>last autumn.
>Heheh bPlan are adding a Workbench replacement you say? bPlan make the mobo >thats all. They have fa to do with the OS. And you tell me to get my facts >straight...?
Ralph Schmidt is *part* of bPlan, stupido.
> BTW dont spend too much money on your Pegasos.. its being manufactured by DCE
> so it'll probably die after 3 months like everything else they make. ;)
Yeah... right.
Your comments get sillier all the time... Get a clue.
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 126 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Georg Steger on 06-Jun-2002 17:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 116 (Samface):
> You see, this is what Amiga Inc. is offering *every* hardware manufacturer wanting to have AmigaOS4 support and all
> of their hardware partners have to sign the very same license, noone excluded or favoured in any way.
But the hardware (motherboard) manufacturers who want to have AOS4 support
are not the problem.
The ones that do not want to specifically support AOS4 support are the
problem. == The ones who do not care/want to care about such a tiny
niche OS as the AmigaOS. Because there are hundreds such niche OSes around.
Not caring does not mean, that they don't give you necessary hw docs, etc.
Just that they don't want to give/have special treatmeants to do for
some obscure OSes like AmigaOS.
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 127 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by JoBBo on 06-Jun-2002 17:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 122 (Troels E):
"Some of the people behind Bplan/MoreFuss (Those that where at P5) have proved themselves to be dishonest businessmen before, what should stop them from being dishonest again?"
Right, those _engineers_ who were *employed* by the Phase5 managers some years ago, proved to be dishonest businessmen... !?
Do you also blame Dave Haynie for what the management team at Commodore did back in the early 90s? That's like saying that Bill McEwen and Fleecy Moss who had been both part of Amiga Inc. once before during the Gateway days, could be held responsible for the fact that the AmigaMMC never appeared, etc.
One should really distinguish between people who were in charge to make certain decisions, and between simple employers who were just trying to do a good job back at the time.
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 128 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Amifan on 06-Jun-2002 17:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 77 (Anonymous):
>Such hardware and its distributors must be approved and licensed by Amiga Inc. >and the hardware distributors must also sell and support AmigaOS4.
That's absolutely nonsense. There are lots of possibilities:
They can rename the "pegasos" to for example Phoenix. This Phoenix is exactly the same as the Pegasos.
Now this Phoenix can get an Amiga certificate and if the flash gets the AmigaOS4 extensions, then it must be sold with AmigaOS4 alone.
So bPlan has two products for sale.
But I wonder if the whole renaming part is required. As far as I have understand it, the certificate is just a quality garantee. Can we, as an amiga user, buy this product capable of running AmigaOS4 without ending with a piece of crap and with zero support.
As I understansd it, only Pegasos mainboards with the AmigaOS4 extensions, or USB dongle, thus capable of running AmigaOS MUST be sold with AmigaOS4.
If the Pegasos is NOT capable of running AmigaOS4, then it can be shipped with whatever OS they want.
So as far as I can see, it's AmigaInc protecting AmigaOS4 with their licencing strategic: If it's capable of running AmigaOS4 then it must be sold with AmigaOS. If it's got no AmigaOS4 code in flash then sell it with any OS you want.
But it's bPlan which wants to push MorphOS no matter what: Hey you stupid Amiga user, you don't have a choice, you want a Pegasos? Then you get MorphOS in the package no matter what. In other words: You have no choice.
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 129 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by KenH on 06-Jun-2002 17:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (Tbone):
>We are -in no way- against any form of copy protection, but the price we ALL pay due to the current policy is too great! We would be completely %100 in support of a form of copy protection that does not limit the market to modified hardware. The current policy concerns us, as we'd like to see an Amiga platform, rather than just a board.
LOL, Sounds like "We are Borg". Have you ever imagined that OS4 will be so good that every POP manufacturer out there scrambles to support it.....thus the whole platform range is covered. Personally though, I only need one machine that supports it....and price of that hardware will need to be competitive or OS4 sales will suffer.
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 130 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by JoBBo on 06-Jun-2002 17:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 128 (Amifan):
"But it's bPlan which wants to push MorphOS no matter what: Hey you stupid Amiga user, you don't have a choice, you want a Pegasos? Then you get MorphOS in the package no matter what. In other words: You have no choice."
Crap. While bPlan allows the PEGASOS to be shipped with other OSes in *addition* to MorphOS & Yellow Dog Linux, Mr. Hermans confirmed that any hardware being capable of running AmigaOS4, must be delivered with OS4 ONLY.
It's obvious who gives more choice to users. And it's most certainly not Amiga Inc., not this time that is.
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 131 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by JoBBo on 06-Jun-2002 17:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 129 (KenH):
"Have you ever imagined that OS4 will be so good that every POP manufacturer out there scrambles to support it....."
Dream on... Neither AmigaOS4 nor MorphOS will be that good. And everyone in his right mind knows this.
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 132 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Mekanix on 06-Jun-2002 18:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 116 (Samface):
If all that were true, they wouldn't need to dongelise POP-boards and forcefeed bundling/OEM-deals.
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 133 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by KenH on 06-Jun-2002 21:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 130 (JoBBo):
>It's obvious who gives more choice to users. And it's most certainly not Amiga Inc., not this time that is.
Bplan have their own restrictions. For example, can I buy PegasOS without MOS? I think not. Where's the choice there if that's what you're so concerned about?
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 134 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by KenH on 06-Jun-2002 21:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 131 (JoBBo):
>Dream on... Neither AmigaOS4 nor MorphOS will be that good. And everyone in his right mind knows this.
Obviously not in their first revisions. But what else is out there on POP with a substantial following?
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 135 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 06-Jun-2002 22:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 133 (KenH):
You get it for free....
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 136 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Seehund on 06-Jun-2002 22:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 119 (TimeWillTell):
I've not felt the need to post much in this thread yet, as most of the issues are already addressed at the petition site. I don't see much discussion anyway, it's mostly parroting of the marketing arguments in that infamous executive update. To take one example as an illustration: "Amiga Inc. needs to protect itself against piracy, piracy would be rampant if Amiga Inc. came up with another distribution policy". Yes, of course it needs to protect itself against piracy, but there are a million and one ways to do that which don't require anything from third party hardware vendors. Try to think for yourselves instead of just repeating what we all can read in black and white - *why* do think think what you're arguing for is good? This is a thread in reply to the announcement of the amigapop.8bit.co.uk site, so if your statement is already answered on that site then it's rather useless and boring to repeat the statement without explaining your reasoning.
As I said, I haven't posted much until now, but when I see total garbage and plain lies like this...
> Seehund has been attacking Amiga Inc. in every forum that he
> posts on for the past year/years. Now, he says that this would be
> good for Amiga Inc. Whereas, I believe he has every right to
> attack Amiga Inc., somehow, his motives seem of dubious origins.
> This is seems all the more true when reading the less than sincere
> description of Amiga Inc.'s license policy.
...then I'm pissed off. I have not attacked anyone, and the petition has FUCK ALL to do with "attacking" any company, person or other entity. Stop spreading Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt about individuals at least. Can't the most blinkered fanatics of either of your invented "sides" please keep your damn moronic flamewars for yourselves and stop seeing every disagreement as an "attack" against your infallible idols?! It's like seeing the reaction of 13 year old girl fans of [insert commercial boy-band here] being told that their idols can't compose music. If you like a product you're not obliged to defend every word and action from the vendor of that product with your life.
Yeah, sure, I must have motives of "dubious origins"... Right. I want to buy AmigaOS and I don't want the software company selling that OS to deprive me of hardware and hardware vendor options for no technical reason, or try to dictate the conditions for hardware vendors to sell their hardware to whomever they damn well like. "OMG, he must belong to the evil minions of MorphOS! Burn him at the stake!"
Really now, if I was disagreeing with a Microsoft policy, in whatever kind of forum, then a post like the one I'm replying to here would be dismissed as a Microsoft employee doing his daily astroturfing routine, but in Amiga related forums it almost seems to be a normal course of action for users to take?
P.S. Hey moderators (if there's anyone left ;)), when will this be moved to the "Web" category?
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 137 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Mike on 07-Jun-2002 00:08 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
"The main reason behind that stance is very clear: piracy."
Look at the dongle that came with Lightwave. Lightwave was pirated. Amiga Inc is using some simple code in a BIOS chip, far less complicated than pulling LW away from the VT.
And I don't see how the BIOS code is going to protect it any how, they'll just pirate BIOS code and flash it to there own BIOS chips.
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 138 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by amigammc on 07-Jun-2002 02:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 72 (Lukas Stehlik):
>Cray II is not an Amiga, Pegasos is!
Pegasos is not an Amiga and Bplan does not own AmigaOS!
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 139 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by amigammc on 07-Jun-2002 02:48 GMT
In reply to Comment 100 (Menthos):
>In my eyes it is just an act against piracy...
Finally somebody smart. Thank you, Menthos.
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 140 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 07-Jun-2002 03:26 GMT
"With the total collapse of ESCOM (which had been the second largest PC vendor in Germany), the Amiga technologies were being kicked loose, and the front-runner to buy them was apparently VIScorp. We met with VIScorp to discuss the idea of an Open Amiga platform. --Dave Haynie"
I wonder if Dave Haynie was just a pirate or a Morphos fanatic?
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 141 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 07-Jun-2002 04:43 GMT
In reply to Comment 137 (Mike):
You guys just don't want to give Amiga any chance do you ? I think there needs to be somekind of protection against piracy otherwise Amiga will not survive. Piracy almost killed Amiga and it is still a big threat. In the mainstream market you don't nesessarily need any hardware protection because there is so much money in the market any way. I think any act which will atleast slowdown piracy is a good.
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 142 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Anders Kjeldsen on 07-Jun-2002 05:22 GMT
I support the bundling. It will make the board "an amiga" and not just "any PPC board".
I don't understand why people are having problems paying that little extra for an OS.
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 143 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Tbone on 07-Jun-2002 05:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 142 (Anders Kjeldsen):
"I support the bundling. It will make the board "an amiga" and not just "any PPC board". "
"I don't understand why people are having problems paying that little extra for an OS."
Has nothing to do with the price, this is the goal we've been working for for years...
"The Amiga market cannot afford to split; we must go together. Together, in one direction. For us to keep the market alive it is necessary to assist many companies in developing products. Products through broad licensing. Our licensing policy will be very open, broad, and of course, simple. Licensing will be focused on standards, Amiga OS, chip sets, trademarks, boards, etc. Whatever you would like."
"The third basic element of the strategy is assisting in developing new products, based on open standards, through the home computer and video market. It is very important that we explore an open Amiga platform and use industry standard components. That would make our products cheaper to produce, faster to develop, and easier to upgrade."
Petro Tyschtschencko, Managing Director of Amiga International.
"In April, it became clear there were big problems with ESCOM, mainly from private mail from Stefan to me. He was looking for money to keep the project going. Later in April, Amiga Technologies dumped most of its technical staff. In May, I met with Mr. Domeyer, Andy, and another partner from Germany, Geerd Ebeling, and we formed PIOS. With the total collapse of ESCOM (which had been the second largest PC vendor in Germany), the Amiga technologies were being kicked loose, and the front-runner to buy them was apparently VIScorp. We met with VIScorp to discuss the idea of an Open Amiga platform. "
Dave Haynie.
"What we are is an attempt to bring the Amiga community together, to provide some focus, and a possible path into the future. We want to expand the platform, move it towards an open platform concept in both the hardware and the software arena, to see it push hard into those areas which are crying out for a simple, powerful, elegant solution. That is our agenda and we hope that the community will rally round and join us. We are no longer just consumers, we are adventurers and we want to ensure that the adventure continues."
excerpt from Jay Miner Society mission.
It's always been our vision, and now it's so close, but yet so far...
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 144 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Menthos on 07-Jun-2002 05:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 139 (amigammc):
"Finally somebody smart. Thank you, Menthos"
Any time! =)
/Menthos
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 145 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 07-Jun-2002 05:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 136 (Seehund):
You are the one spreading FUD, Seehund. There's nothing wrong about the license, on the contrary. It will make cooperation with more hardware manufacturers easier and might even provide us with more hardware alternatives than it would have without the license.
Have you even tried asking Amiga Inc. about those concers of yours in order to clarify things? No, because your so damn sure about your own "interpretation" when you haven't even read the actual license.
I'm sorry Seehund, but what you're doing is per definition spreading FUD and when I see you telling this to others, it simply becomes too much. You're pissed off because you won't be able to run AmigaOS4 on the Pegasos and putting the blame on Amiga Inc. is plain ignorance. To create a complete product such as a computer with both hardware and software requires efforts from both the hardware developer and the software developer. Amiga Inc. has made their cooperation terms public and it's all up to the hardware manufacturer to decide wether he wants to sign or not. It's as simple as that and if cooperation can't be reached, don't blame the only one atleast making an effort on trying to cooperate. I can read Amiga Inc. and Hyperion making official statements that they have nothing against having Pegasos support in AmigaOS4, where's the statements telling us bPlan is willing to support AmigaOS4?
"But their terms are not acceptable..."
Tough. That's THEIR problem, not Amiga Inc.'s. Nobody else had a problem with them, only bPlan as always...
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 146 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Menthos on 07-Jun-2002 05:39 GMT
In reply to Comment 130 (JoBBo):
(comment from middle of discussion)
"Second point of the licence:
***Such hardware and its distributors must be approved and licensed by Amiga Inc. and the hardware distributors must also sell and support AmigaOS4.***
This is unacceptable for Pegasos and MOS developers."
Again I will point out that I don't know what the license have in it (except the one stated above, but I haven't read that one anywhere other than here).
"running AmigaOS4, must be delivered with OS4 ONLY. "
As stated in the one comment at the top the "OS4 ONLY" wasn't the problem. And as I haven't heard anything else (but now) about "OS4 ONLY" (must have missed Ben's comment) I don't know what to belive here... =/
But if this i true it's rather restrictive I admit... But all I have heard is that if it can run AOS4 it must be delivered with is (nothing ONLY about it). But I may be wrong here...
/Menthos
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 147 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Björn Hagström on 07-Jun-2002 05:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 146 (Menthos):
"As stated in the one comment at the top the "OS4 ONLY" wasn't the problem. And as I haven't heard anything else (but now) about "OS4 ONLY" (must have missed Ben's comment) I don't know what to belive here... =/
But if this i true it's rather restrictive I admit... But all I have heard is that if it can run AOS4 it must be delivered with is (nothing ONLY about it). But I may be wrong here..."
Which ofcourse is irrelevant, since you can order any OS you want, even at the same time as you buy an AmigaOS enabled mobo.
/Björn
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 148 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Menthos on 07-Jun-2002 06:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 147 (Björn Hagström):
"Which ofcourse is irrelevant, since you can order any OS you want, even at the same time as you buy an AmigaOS enabled mobo."
Very true... =)
/Menthos
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 149 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 07-Jun-2002 06:33 GMT
In reply to Comment 147 (Björn Hagström):
Any company which agrees to these terms can sell only to Amiga users. Not because of the terms themselves, but because of the costs associated with complying. No-one else will pay for the extra hardware and software required by the agreement. Making the additional hardware "optional" is a joke that would push manufacturing costs further through the roof.
Eyetech never intended to sell to anyone else (still don't, the LinuxOne is vapour like the A1200 PCI card) so they can agree to these terms readily. Everyone else will reject this plan and any similarly arrogant plan in the future.
The only question remaining is, how well will the AmigaOne sell when it eventually arrives ? We can't answer that question for some months yet.
AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 150 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 07-Jun-2002 06:34 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
"I [Ben Hermans] must remark that Hyperion fully endorses Amiga Inc's distribution policies. "
Well of course you do.
Their ridiculous policy means that ANY platform capable of running AOS4 *MUST* be sold with a full copy of the OS, regardless of whether or not the purchaser wants the OS.
Of COURSE you support the Amiga Tax, because it gains you more money in the short term.
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