| [Rant] AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site | ANN.lu |
| Posted on 06-Jun-2002 04:30 GMT by Seehund | 280 comments
View flat
View list | |
AmigaPOP.8bit.co.uk is finally online!
Here you'll hopefully find all information you could possibly want about the "AmigaOS distribution policies and POP/PPC hardware petition". I hope the background information and FAQ will be especially helpful to clear up any confusion surrounding these issues.
If you have not yet signed the petition, then please do so now! Please help spreading the word by linking to AmigaPOP.8bit.co.uk. It's not too late to save our favourite OS and a unified POP-based hardware market!
In other news, I have finally managed to get in touch with the PetitionOnline.com administrators. The few abuse and sabotage attempts so far have been removed from the signatory listings. Not that any garbage would ever reach the recipient of our petition, but I understand some thought that it didn't look too good...
|
|
| AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 151 of 280 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Björn Hagström on 07-Jun-2002 06:37 GMT | In reply to Comment 149 (Anonymous):
And why you replied to my post to say that will be debated by the elders for generations to come.
/Björn |
|
| AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 152 of 280 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Björn Hagström on 07-Jun-2002 06:43 GMT | In reply to Comment 150 (Anonymous):
"Their ridiculous policy means that ANY platform capable of running AOS4 *MUST* be sold with a full copy of the OS, regardless of whether or not the purchaser wants the OS."
No, only mobos that are licensed to run AOS4 must be sold with AOS4. A mobo, such as the AmigaONE, gets licensed by havign some extensions in the bios. If those extensions are not present then it cannot run AOS4 and thus won't be sold with AOS4.
If the customer doesn't want AOS4 then he/she can buy a non licensed version of the hardware.
It's that simple.
/Björn |
|
| AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 153 of 280 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Menthos on 07-Jun-2002 06:49 GMT | In reply to Comment 152 (Björn Hagström):
To bad some people just don't get it and some even don't want to get it... =(
/Menthos |
|
| AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 154 of 280 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Tbone on 07-Jun-2002 06:57 GMT | In reply to Comment 152 (Björn Hagström):
"No, only mobos that are licensed to run AOS4 must be sold with AOS4. A mobo, such as the AmigaONE, gets licensed by havign some extensions in the bios. If those extensions are not present then it cannot run AOS4 and thus won't be sold with AOS4."
"If the customer doesn't want AOS4 then he/she can buy a non licensed version of the hardware."
"It's that simple. "
Sure, simple... The Manufacturer has to take one board, and create a separate product line exclusively for the Amiga market. Wouldn't entering the Amiga market be more attractive to manufacturers if they didn't need to take this risk?
Any boards they can't sell, they must eat, as they're now "licensed" and bound by Amiga's license terms, and MUST be sold with OS4. Not an attractive business proposition from the Manufacturers POV.
Well, so far 1 manufacturer accepted the license, and they're an Amiga partner anyway... 2 manufacturers were turned away by the license.
2/3 boards so far we've lost, as options available to us users, due to this license, already. We're burning our bridges, and we're still on the wrong side of the river. |
|
| AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 155 of 280 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Menthos on 07-Jun-2002 07:09 GMT | In reply to Comment 154 (Tbone):
"Sure, simple... The Manufacturer has to take one board, and create a separate product line exclusively for the Amiga market."
Sure, but that could be done without a lot of work... The production (NOT product) line could still be the same with some of the options stated before... And if it sells it fast brings back the money.
/Menthos |
|
| AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 156 of 280 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by SlimJim on 07-Jun-2002 07:10 GMT | Boy do I hate those "ten posts at a time" displays on ANN! It's impossible to follow
long threads, and even harder to see what's new, since the page-links aren't made
bold when they contain new stuff. And you cannot click on the comments to go back
to the comment a poster answered to either.
I have simply stopped going through long threads on ANN lately. It's too much
hassle.
(Not that this particular thread is much news though... :-P )
.
SlimJim |
|
| AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 157 of 280 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Samface on 07-Jun-2002 07:14 GMT | In reply to Comment 150 (Anonymous):
Inaccurate statement. The licensed hardware does NOT have to be bundled with AmigaOS4. If that was the case Eyetech wouldn't be able to bundle their AmigaOne with Linux like they are doing right now. |
|
| AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 158 of 280 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Samface on 07-Jun-2002 07:17 GMT | In reply to Comment 149 (Anonymous):
The license requires the licensee to bundle their hardware with AmigaOS4 but does NOT prevent the manufacturer to bundle their hardware with other operating systems as well. That's how Eyetech is able to bundle their AmigaOne with a linux distro as well without breaking the license. |
|
| AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 159 of 280 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Samface on 07-Jun-2002 07:20 GMT | In reply to Comment 154 (Tbone):
Another product line? Where do people get this from... All they have to do is simply "rebundling" the hardware with another OS, no hardware redesign required. |
|
| AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 160 of 280 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 07-Jun-2002 07:22 GMT | In reply to Comment 130 (JoBBo):
>Mr. Hermans confirmed that any hardware being capable of running AmigaOS4, must be >delivered with OS4 ONLY.
This is an outright lie.
In fact, if you would stop and think for more than half a second, you'd realise that the AmigaOne developer boards are already shipping with Linux. |
|
| AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 161 of 280 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Menthos on 07-Jun-2002 07:22 GMT | In reply to Comment 159 (Samface):
I guess he's right with the product line... The production has little to do with that... =)
If he had wrote "production" it would have been different. But as stated before, it is not so much work to have another product line if you don't have to make another production line... =)
/Menthos |
|
| AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 162 of 280 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Menthos on 07-Jun-2002 07:24 GMT | In reply to Comment 160 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
Thank you Ben for clarifying this! To bad some people have to lie to make a point... =(
/Menthos |
|
| AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 163 of 280 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Björn Hagström on 07-Jun-2002 07:27 GMT | In reply to Comment 154 (Tbone):
" Sure, simple... The Manufacturer has to take one board, and create a separate product line exclusively for the Amiga market. Wouldn't entering the Amiga market be more attractive to manufacturers if they didn't need to take this risk?
.. blah blah blah ..
"
This goes far beyond the scope of what I explained to the previous poster. I will not discuss anything beyond the original scope in context to my reply since anything beyond has nothing to do with my reply.
/Björn |
|
| AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 164 of 280 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Samface on 07-Jun-2002 07:29 GMT | In reply to Comment 154 (Tbone):
"Well, so far 1 manufacturer accepted the license, and they're an Amiga partner anyway... 2 manufacturers were turned away by the license."
FUD!
Companies who has agreed to or are in negotiations with this license:
Eyetech
DCE
Elbox
Matay
Merlancia Industries
Companies opposing this license:
bPlan
Companies turned away by this license:
None |
|
| AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 165 of 280 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Menthos on 07-Jun-2002 07:33 GMT | In reply to Comment 164 (Samface):
Isn't DCE in with bPlan in the Pegasos project? I guess they are out of the AOS4 run... Wasn't there a comment about that DCE was told to not cooperate with the AOS4-team?
(Needs a better memory in my head I guess)
/Menthos |
|
| AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 166 of 280 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Tbone on 07-Jun-2002 07:36 GMT | In reply to Comment 160 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
">Mr. Hermans confirmed that any hardware being capable of running AmigaOS4, must be >delivered with OS4 ONLY. "
"This is an outright lie. "
I think this arises from the fact you confirmed the validity of the leaked email between bplan/mos and Amiga, inc. I myself can't remember off the top of my head exactly how it read, but I think the term "with AOS only" appeared in it, and you confirmed it was valid. I could be wrong, and I haven't the time right now to do a search for it, maybe later. |
|
| AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 167 of 280 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Amifan on 07-Jun-2002 07:41 GMT | In reply to Comment 135 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
Only the sunlight is for free...
Pressing labeling and bundling CDs cost money and you can count on it that it's in the price of the mainboard, because it's not sold without MorphOS. In other words: If you don't want MorphOS, then you still have to pay the full price, that bPLANs way of giving something "for free".
Anyway my neighbours garbage is for free too, not that I want it...
Anyway, this MorphOS comes at a high price: The licence that comes with it.
"All boards MUST be sold with MorphOS." |
|
| AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 168 of 280 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Tbone on 07-Jun-2002 07:43 GMT | In reply to Comment 159 (Samface):
"Another product line? Where do people get this from... All they have to do is simply "rebundling" the hardware with another OS, no hardware redesign required."
Got it from the license. Once a board is licensed, it MUST be sold with OS4.
How many manufacturers are going to be banging on Amiga's door with terms like that?
By the way, you can't "unbundle" the board from the OS, that's the whole point! |
|
| AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 169 of 280 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Tbone on 07-Jun-2002 07:46 GMT | In reply to Comment 163 (Björn Hagström):
".. blah blah blah ..
"
This goes far beyond the scope of what I explained to the previous poster. I will not discuss anything beyond the original scope in context to my reply since anything beyond has nothing to do with my reply. "
Fair enough... Thank you for participating. Have a nice day :) |
|
| AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 170 of 280 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Björn Hagström on 07-Jun-2002 07:49 GMT | In reply to Comment 168 (Tbone):
Single boards can be marked as licensed when sold to the customer by having the copy protection mechanism added to it, that being a BIOS replacement, USB dongle or otherwise. The manufacturer/reseller does not have to have loads of "certified" boards on stock or have a separate manufacturing line for it. They get the boards in their hands and then certify them as needed. Or for that matter uncertify them as needed.
Why make things more complicated than they have to be just to prove a point?
/Björn |
|
| AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 171 of 280 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anders Kjeldsen on 07-Jun-2002 07:55 GMT | I had the impression that this was the deal:
To run AmigaOS4 on AmigaOne, one have to have a piece of hardware installed, so that pirate-versions of AmigaOS4 CANNOT be run on AmigaOne. One can, however, run pirate-versions of AmigaOS4 on C/BPPC (technically)
Or this wrong? Has Hyperion/Amiga Inc. informed properly about this on the AmigaOs-page? |
|
| AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 172 of 280 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Menthos on 07-Jun-2002 07:58 GMT | In reply to Comment 168 (Tbone):
"Got it from the license. Once a board is licensed, it MUST be sold with OS4. "
Are you having trouble reading? ;)
Try to read these statments:
1. A board must have a "thing" (many options have been mentioned) to make it able to run AOS4.
2. A harware boundeled with the "thing" must be sold with AOS4.
Still with me?
3. A board without the "thing" is not able to be licensed (and can't run AOS4).
Here comes the best part...
4. Removing (or not adding) the "thing" makes it a non licensed hardware.
5. Non licensed harware can be sold without AOS4.
To conclude:
Why would anyone want to sell harware with the "thing" without AOS4? The thing is there for AOS4 and to add it and not ship AOS4 is rather stupid... =)
So to have 2 different products here (one licensed and one without a license) is NO PROBLEM. It's rather simple... =)
/Menthos |
|
| AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 173 of 280 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Tbone on 07-Jun-2002 08:14 GMT | In reply to Comment 170 (Björn Hagström):
"They get the boards in their hands and then certify them as needed. Or for that matter uncertify them as needed."
As far as I can tell, you're guessing, as there is no information available from the executive update, or any discussion about the license to verify that. On the contrary, it's been stated many times by Amiga that all licensed hardware must be sold with AOS.
"Why make things more complicated than they have to be just to prove a point? "
I don't believe it's complicated at all, this sentiment has already been expressed by manufacturers about the license, so obviously it's a relevant criticism. Wether or not YOU or I agree with the license, the fact remains that when a manufacturer dislikes the license WE loose an option.
Amiga Inc. should be /rolling out the red carpet/ for anyone interested in manufacturing boards compatible with OS4! Has everyone forgotten the past decade? Amiga should be yelling "You face no risk in manufacturing for our market! You just make a board that meets our spec, and we'll take care of the OS" (well, If it were up to me, I'd be yelling from a mountaintop;)
Look at the Barbie. they just make boards, they're not into marketing. Amiga, with it's licensing, requires you to market the board with the OS. Most manufacturers don't want to touch marketing, especially to a risky market where they might be stuck with licensed boards they must sell with an OS. Even without the risk, what incentive does a manufacturer, who already have a POP board in production, have in marketing for AOS when the NON AOS versions are less complicated to sell, and have no license baggage? |
|
| AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 174 of 280 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anonymous on 07-Jun-2002 08:23 GMT | In reply to Comment 172 (Menthos):
Menthos, what you fail to understand is this "thing" to which you refer is the boot PROM which must have special AOS extensions in it.
Now, economies of scale and inventory costs dictate that a company producing a PPC system is not going to mess around having two different boot PROMs. They will have one single PROM. Either with the AOS additions, this requiring all systems be sold with AOS regardless of whether the user wants it or not (the Amiga Tax), or else they'll just not bother adding the AOS extensions, and thus AInc's blind stupidity cuts off sales of AOS. |
|
| AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 175 of 280 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by SlimJim on 07-Jun-2002 08:23 GMT | In reply to Comment 171 (Anders Kjeldsen):
Hmmm... This is actually a quite interesting question. How is piracy going to
be adressed on the classic PPC-boards? Ben?
.
SlimJim |
|
| AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 176 of 280 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anonymous on 07-Jun-2002 08:27 GMT | In reply to Comment 157 (Samface):
Because, dear SpamFace, Eyetech can not bundle the non-existant AOS4 with the product at this point in time, can they?
If you stoped to THINK for a moment before posting... |
|
| AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 177 of 280 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Menthos on 07-Jun-2002 08:31 GMT | In reply to Comment 173 (Tbone):
"As far as I can tell, you're guessing, as there is no information available from the executive update, or any discussion about the license to verify that."
There have been said that dealers can license others hardware, so I don't see your point as valid...
"On the contrary, it's been stated many times by Amiga that all licensed hardware must be sold with AOS."
Noone has said anything else...
/Menthos |
|
| AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 178 of 280 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Marcus Sundman on 07-Jun-2002 08:33 GMT | In reply to Comment 166 (Tbone):
> ">Mr. Hermans confirmed that any hardware being capable of running AmigaOS4,
> must be >delivered with OS4 ONLY. "
>
> "This is an outright lie. "
>
> I think this arises from the fact you confirmed the validity of the leaked
> email between bplan/mos and Amiga, inc. I myself can't remember off the top
> of my head exactly how it read, but I think the term "with AOS only" appeared
> in it, and you confirmed it was valid.
It was more along the lines of "Why would one want to supply it with something else than just AOS?" It didn't say that you couldn't, it just asked why you would want to. |
|
| AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 179 of 280 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Menthos on 07-Jun-2002 08:37 GMT | In reply to Comment 174 (Anonymous):
Dear ms Scared...
"Menthos, what you fail to understand is this "thing" to which you refer is the boot PROM which must have special AOS extensions in it."
Where is it stated how the "thing" must be done? A USB dongle has been mentioned over and over again, but if the motherboard (in this case Pegasos) don't handle USB (or any other options people can think of) maybe the hardware must be altered... But I think the specs for Pegasos say that it can handle USB...
Please, if you are going to post anything relevant, think before you post and reveal yourself to be taken serious.
/Menthos |
|
| AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 180 of 280 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Bill Panagouleas on 07-Jun-2002 08:44 GMT | In reply to Comment 38 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
I agree with Ben Hermans/Hyperion 100 |
|
| AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 181 of 280 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Don Cox on 07-Jun-2002 08:49 GMT | In reply to Comment 175 (SlimJim):
%
"Hmmm... This is actually a quite interesting question. How is piracy going to
be adressed on the classic PPC-boards? Ben?"
As there are only a few of them still working, the risk is quite
small. It's not likely that more than a couple of hundred pirate
copies would be running on those accelerators, and probably far
fewer.
The owners of those cards are the most likely people to buy a complete
legal AmigaOne kit with OS. |
|
| AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 182 of 280 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Menthos on 07-Jun-2002 08:53 GMT | In reply to Comment 181 (Don Cox):
I'm sorry to say that I am one of those who will not buy a new ppc-motherboard for OS4 from start... I have spent to much money on a house and I guess my wife would kill me if I bought more Amiga harware... So I will stick with the CSPPC for now, but OS4 is a must... =)
/Menthos |
|
| AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 183 of 280 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Marcus Sundman on 07-Jun-2002 09:02 GMT | In reply to Comment 173 (Tbone):
> On the contrary, it's been stated many times by Amiga that all licensed
> hardware must be sold with AOS.
This is not the problem. Actually this is quite obvious, and you wouldn't want it any other way.
However, the problem is that "AOS won't run on unlicensed hardware". If AOS would run on people's hardware then people would just buy AOS if they want it, but if the OS is copy-protected not to run on your hardware then you can't just buy it, and hence the only option left is to crack the copy-protection system in it, and when that is broken then AOS will be easily available on the warez scene. To prevent this from happening AOS should be made available to all compatible hardware so that you don't have to crack the copy-protection if you want to run it on your POP board.
As Ben Hermans (IIRC) previously stated there are other copy-protection systems available. So why not _also_ make some other copy-protection system available (perhaps at some additional cost) that can be used when you want to run your AOS on an unlicensed board?
I do believe that Ainc will go down this road before long, so I'm not so upset that the first version will be available only as OEM. However, many people seem to want to run AOS on pegasos so maybe even the first version of AOS should be made available also as a separate product so that PSOS people also could buy it instead of having to get it through illegal channels. |
|
| AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 184 of 280 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by JoBBo on 07-Jun-2002 09:03 GMT | In reply to Comment 160 (Ben Hermans/Hyperion):
>>Mr. Hermans confirmed that any hardware being capable of running AmigaOS4, must be
>>delivered with OS4 ONLY.
> This is an outright lie.
>In fact, if you would stop and think for more than half a second, you'd
>realise that the AmigaOne developer boards are already shipping with Linux.
Yeah, they're shipping with Linux but NO AmigaOS4. Does this contradict what I said in any way? I don't think so.
Anyway, if this is not true so why did you/Amiga ask bPlan not to sell PEGASOS-based machines bundled with AmigaOS4 as long as MorphOS would be part of the package as well?
See also...
http://www.ann.lu/comments2.cgi?show=1018702142&category=news&number=162 (Nicolas Sallin)
http://www.ann.lu/comments2.cgi?show=1018702142&category=news&number=166 (Mr. Ben Hermans)
Here is a small snippet taken from your answer: "Desinformation. ONLY for those users interested in getting OS 4." |
|
| AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 185 of 280 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Tbone on 07-Jun-2002 09:10 GMT | In reply to Comment 180 (Bill Panagouleas):
Posted by Bill Panagouleas (205.142.0.77) on 07-Jun-2002 10:44:43
In Reply to Comment 38:
"I agree with Ben Hermans/Hyperion 100%"
About what? never mind, thank you for participating :)
Let's not have "sides", lets just discuss. The only thing that can come from an intelligent discussion are good things. The only thing you get from "sides" are flamewars :)
I'd truely like to see representation from Amiga step in and discuss this with a group of people, or at least address these concerns. We are the people who will drive the platform foreward, and our concerns are valid, hopefully we can discuss this without those of us who share these concerns being labelled as a militant faction :). Our concerns are not for any one particular board, but they are for our one OS of choice, AmigaOS4, the Real Thing. We'd like to see it in as many places as possible, and are concerned that the current licensing, while being implemented to prevent piracy, does little to promote legal distribution via hardware availability on an otherwise open and growing platform. |
|
| AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 186 of 280 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Menthos on 07-Jun-2002 09:10 GMT | In reply to Comment 184 (JoBBo):
"Anyway, if this is not true so why did you/Amiga ask bPlan not to sell PEGASOS-based machines bundled with AmigaOS4 as long as MorphOS would be part of the package as well?"
Because they think MOS is illegal? And "ask" is NOT the same as "MUST ... ONLY".
/Menthos |
|
| AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 187 of 280 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anonymous on 07-Jun-2002 09:11 GMT | In reply to Comment 57 (DaveW):
> Agreed. These guys cling on to the last vestige of ill informed fud from the
> pro BPlan/MorphOS lobby and no truth will ever change it.
This has got nothing to do with MorphOS. Are you really so
blinkered that you can't comprehend a criticism of Amiga as
anything other than pro-MorphOS FUD?
> - The fact that they still go on about needing to modify the hardware to
> support AOS4.
That's the whole basis of the petition. Sheesh! These people are
saying that OS4 can technically run on any POP board but can't
because of this anti-piracy "dongle".
> - The fact that they still wont accept that the A1 is a POP board EVEN though
> they go on about it being no different from Mais POP board ( it is different
> but still POP actually ).
I don't understand where this point comes from. The petition
authors are saying that the A1 *is* a POP board and that AmigaOS
can run on any POP board.
> - The fact that they go on about draconian licensing terms. They are? How? No
> one has uttered one convincing word that makes it sound draconian.
It's restricting my freedom to use the hardware I choose, despite
the fact that the AmigaOS HAL is designed to work on POP boards
-- a fact with which you concur.
Also, what happens if in a few years my A1 board dies and Eyetech
are no longer producing them? I've no choice but to ditch that
version of AmigaOS that I was using. This would be a perfectly
acceptable situation if other POP boards weren't available but
were useless because of the absence of AmigaOS dongle. In other
words, my freedom to use the OS I bought has been restricted by a
questionabe method of ensuring that the OS can't be pirated.
("Questionable" refers to whether or not the "dongle" will be
effective).
> - The fact that some still havent got their heads around the difference
> between hardware manufacturers, vendors and software makers despite having it
> explained [n] times.
This sounds like another baseless attack. I've never encountered
anyone who needs that explaining.
> Its business not charity - get it through your heads!
Agreed. So I don't see why I should donate any money to the
"Amiga cause". I'll buy whatever hardware/software combo I like.
Whether or not it has an Amiga badge on it or not is of no
relevence. |
|
| AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 188 of 280 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Ben Hermans/Hyperion on 07-Jun-2002 09:21 GMT | In reply to Comment 175 (SlimJim):
It's not.
There won't be anything stopping piracy for the Cyberstorm or the BlizzardPPC.
Which makes it even more imperative in my eyes to get some kind of OEM form of distribution for Amiga licensed hardware.
No matter how many times you post it, this misconception keeps popping up time and again:
That the ROM dongle is somehow the only way to distinguish licensed from unlicensed hardware and that two production lines would need to be maintained.
Wrong. A USB token could for instance serve the same purpose.
So a manufacturer could sell the same identical hardware to those users who specifically want the hardware with OS 4 and for others with another OS like Linux.
(Exchanging roms is a very trivial affaire BTW but not even that is required).
I'm absolutely confident that if there is sufficient demand from the Linux community that Eyetech will sell the same hardware to them with a slightly different rom if they don't want OS 4 with it.
Eyetech is a business, they are in business to make profit and meet demand. |
|
| AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 189 of 280 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Menthos on 07-Jun-2002 09:21 GMT | Just one more thing I would like to add...
After a AmiTech fair a Amigadealer expressed his concern about how people spent their money on expensive PPC hardware but did NOT buy software for it (Applications and Games).
Here is the main concern I think. If people spend a lot of money on expensive hardware (well, a new computer is expensive for most people) they is more likely to pirate software saving a little money. If the software is bundled with the hardware the piracy could be restricted (it will still exist, but hopefully a little smaller).
I think this is what Amiga is trying to do and I support it.
/Menthos |
|
| AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 190 of 280 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by JoBBo on 07-Jun-2002 09:31 GMT | In reply to Comment 186 (Menthos):
> Because they think MOS is illegal?
If Amiga Inc. was concerned about MorphOS' legality only, they would have asked bPlan to not release it all. Instead, they wanted bPlan to not sell dual-boot machines with AmigaOS4 *and* MorphOS.
> And "ask" is NOT the same as "MUST ... ONLY".
Just read Ben Herman's posting again. You'll find the link in one of my older comments. |
|
| AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 191 of 280 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Tbone on 07-Jun-2002 09:38 GMT | In reply to Comment 189 (Menthos):
"Here is the main concern I think. If people spend a lot of money on expensive hardware (well, a new computer is expensive for most people) they is more likely to pirate software saving a little money. If the software is bundled with the hardware the piracy could be restricted (it will still exist, but hopefully a little smaller). "
"I think this is what Amiga is trying to do and I support it. "
We ALL support anti-piracy measures, but we believe the baby is being thrown out with the bathwater, because the market that's being prevented from PIRATING AOS4 is also being prevented from PURCHASING it. That's the whole point. They've let the baby go down the drain.
They're preventing me from buying a compatible but unlicenses board, like the Barbie (which uses the same HAL/chipset drivers in linux as the A1) and pirating OS4 and running it, but they've also preventing me from purchasing it for that board! The manufacturer isn't interested in catering with 3rd party product lines, and I can't blame them.
Now what are we supposed to do? petition EACH new piece of hardware that comes to market to get a license (There's a task for ya ;) or simply try to talk Amiga into a more practical approach to an anti-piracy method that doesn't involve the manufacturer in the first place? |
|
| AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 192 of 280 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Menthos on 07-Jun-2002 09:41 GMT | In reply to Comment 190 (JoBBo):
Ben wrote "By definition, if a dealer or third party goes to the trouble of getting an OEM version of OS 4 for certain hardware, he will want to ship it with OS 4 and not with anything else."
I still can't find the "MUST" here... =)
/Menthos |
|
| AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 193 of 280 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by JoBBo on 07-Jun-2002 09:44 GMT | In reply to Comment 192 (Menthos):
> I still can't find the "MUST" here... =)
I'm afraid you lack reading comprehension skills. Anyway, we better stop now... Let's just wait and see what Mr. Ben Hermans has to say about this. |
|
| AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 194 of 280 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Menthos on 07-Jun-2002 09:49 GMT | In reply to Comment 191 (Tbone):
"They're preventing me from buying a compatible but unlicenses board, like the Barbie (which uses the same HAL/chipset drivers in linux as the A1) and pirating OS4 and running it, but they've also preventing me from purchasing it for that board! The manufacturer isn't interested in catering with 3rd party product lines, and I can't blame them. "
But where would you turn to for support for that board? Nowhere! Noone will have support for it because the manufacturer don't have any support for AmigaOS on the hardware and why should Amiga have support for it when the manufacturer don't care about running AmigaOS on it? I'm rather glad you pointed this out, because I was nearly about to forget this aspect... =)
And there is no restriction for anyone else to get a license for that hardware as long as they follow the license agreement...
So it is not Amiga you should put pressure on but the Amigadealers or the manufacturers...
/Menthos |
|
| AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 195 of 280 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Anders Kjeldsen on 07-Jun-2002 09:50 GMT | In reply to Comment 191 (Tbone):
>but they've also preventing me from purchasing it for that board!
AmigaOne increases AmigaOS4 sales.
AmigaOS4 increases AmigaOne sales.
Unlicenced boards with AmigaOS4 compability increases piracy, and also results in less AmigaOne sales (since people don't need AmigaOne to run AmigaOS4 - And B/CPPC is out of the question for new customers). A possibility is that AmigaOS4 sales are higher for other boards than with AmigaOne, but then again: What's the price of AmigaOS4 compared to AmigaOne ?
That's how I see it, and I don't blame Hyperion/Eyetech/Amiga Inc. for not letting this happen at first(or ever). |
|
| AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 196 of 280 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Menthos on 07-Jun-2002 09:57 GMT | In reply to Comment 193 (JoBBo):
Well, I guess I didn't read it as you did, but only Ben knows how to read it correct (what he was trying to say)... =)
/Menthos |
|
| AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 197 of 280 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Tbone on 07-Jun-2002 09:58 GMT | In reply to Comment 195 (Anders Kjeldsen):
"AmigaOne increases AmigaOS4 sales.
AmigaOS4 increases AmigaOne sales."
"That's how I see it, and I don't blame Hyperion/Eyetech/Amiga Inc. for not letting this happen at first(or ever)."
I'm not interested in Eyetech's sales, and neither should Amiga. If I buy an OS from a self proclaimed "software company" they shouldn't dictate the hardware available to me, artificially.
If that's the purpose, to create a "Good ole boy's club" between Amiga/Eyetech/Hyperion, then I'm doubly against it! |
|
| AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 198 of 280 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Menthos on 07-Jun-2002 10:04 GMT | In reply to Comment 197 (Tbone):
"If I buy an OS from a self proclaimed "software company" they shouldn't dictate the hardware available to me, artificially."
Well, go and buy a WindowsXP for PPC! ;)
Software companies have always dictated the hardware they run on in one way or another, sorry to say.
/Menthos |
|
| AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 199 of 280 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Tbone on 07-Jun-2002 10:06 GMT | In reply to Comment 194 (Menthos):
"But where would you turn to for support for that board? Nowhere! Noone will have support for it because the manufacturer don't have any support for AmigaOS on the hardware and why should Amiga have support for it when the manufacturer don't care about running AmigaOS on it? I'm rather glad you pointed this out, because I was nearly about to forget this aspect... =) "
You do realise the HAL is the same? Who do linux users turn to for support? they already HAVE working drivers, provided by the manufacturer! The manufacturer already offered to do the same for us, although it's not even needed as the board is built from the same reference design. The only reason it wouldn't work is if they make it not work, as it's the same board reference.
The linux drivers you see being used to test the A1, are exactly the same ones used on the Barbie, in fact, the Barbie people are responsible for Linux running on the A1 :) So actually, the A1 is being tested to see if it's "Barbie driver" compatible, when they ran the linux tests.
Anyway, who's been supporting you the past 10 years? licensing doesn't mean squat when the manufacturer washes up on the beach :) |
|
| AmigaOS + POP/PPC petition official web site : Comment 200 of 280 | ANN.lu |
| Posted by Mika Hanhijärvi on 07-Jun-2002 10:07 GMT | As I said earlier in another similar thread I will not sign petitions like that now. I think this is not right time for petitions like that. Personally I aggree fully with ben Hermans. I think it's important that AmigaInc/Hyperion make sure tht if you buy AmigaOne then you will automaticly buy OS4 too. that's the whole point of Amiga's distribution policy in this case. Ben hermans sayd like this and I have to say I aggree it 100%.
"The OEM policy adopted by Amiga at least means that every time you buy an
AmigaOne, you're buying AmigaOS 4 and are thereby compensating the hard
work of some 30 developers.
It's imperative that piracy of OS 4 is kept to a bare minimum because without
the much needed revenues, we cannot guarantee further development of OS 4.
Hyperion is a commercial company with full-time professional developers which
is your best guarantee for a good product.
If OS 4 were to be sold separately, piracy would again be rampant and would eat
deeply into the already uncertain revenues of OS 4.
This is a far bigger threat to the platform's continued existence than the
rather theoretical appearance of yet another POP solution at an affordable
price which would not be certified in some way or another by Amiga. " |
|
|
- User Menu
-
- About ANN archives
- The ANN archives is powered by #AmigaZeux. It was updated daily (news last: 22-Oct-2004; comments last: 18-May-2005).
ANN.lu was created, previously owned and maintained by Christian Kemp, www.ckemp.com.
- Contribute
- Not possible at this time!
- Search ANN archives
- Advanced search
- Hosting
- ANN.lu was hosted by Dreamhost. Sign up through this link, mention "ckemp" as referrer and he will get a 10% commission on any account you purchase.
Please show your appreciation for any past, present and future work on ANN.lu by making a contribution via PayPal.
|
