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[News] Next Pegasos production sold outANN.lu
Posted on 07-Jun-2002 18:19 GMT by Christian Kemp280 comments
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"From: Raquel Velasco and Bill Buck. We would like to announce that the next scheduled production of the Pegasos has been sold out. Boards have been set aside for friendly developers, but all others have been sold. Another production of the Pegasos will follow in July." [ Source: Email forward... - CK ]

Update: More information was posted in comment 52.

Next Pegasos production sold out : Comment 201 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Jürgen Lange on 09-Jun-2002 14:25 GMT
In reply to Comment 194 (Anonymous):
I've a different impression, following this discussion. Thendic will
sell only the hardware. Resallers are able to bundle the hardware with
MorphOS or another OS (Linux).
Thendic's main market will not be the desktop computer market, their
target is to produce a new computer/hand held, the "Eclipse".
And they think - and this is also my opinion - that it is not very
usefull to produce something for the Amiga market only, because the
Amiga market is much to small.
Jürgen
Next Pegasos production sold out : Comment 202 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Bill on 09-Jun-2002 14:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 200 (anonymous):
No you give me a break Mr. Anonymous!
Yes, we have made a few announcements -- so what?! It works...:)
How did we put the onus on Amiga users? We are selling a Pegasos mainboard. If you want one buy one. We will be pleased and we hope you/other buyers will be too. Am I missing something? Come on engage me -- send us an email. Talk to us!
No resellers have approached us with regard to the Amiga Inc. licensing issue, but all of the well know resellers have contacted us about getting product. The requirements are a ten board minimum purchase. For pricing you have to send us an email...:)
Sincerely,
Bill
Next Pegasos production sold out : Comment 203 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by André Siegel on 09-Jun-2002 14:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 183 (Raquel and Bill):
"Your observation about the Amiga trademarks is in agreement with our research and has been for some time. "
Well, everyone working in the marketing field will tell you that buying an existing brand is usually a lot cheaper than establishing your own one. Period.
Moreover, during the Commodore days about 5 million Amigas were sold so it's safe to say that there are a couple of million people (probably even more than 5 as not everyone who knew Amigas actually owned one) out there who will remember the name once they see it. Now, when dealing with rather cost-intense goods such as PDAs or computers, it is important to realize that many people soon become rather conservative when it is about time to roll out their check books and pay a serious amount of cash. In most cases, they are more likely to buy a $500 product which has a name on it that they've heard before (even if they can't remember any details about where and when that happened) than to choose something from an unknown start-up company. The fact they remember the name from anytime in the past, implies that the respective manufactorer must have existed for quite some time and been rather successful in selling its products which might be interpreted as a sign of high product quality, otherwise, it probably wouldn't have survived until today. All of this makes people feel comfortable in believing that this company won't go bankrupt anytime soon so a) they'll continue to get support for what they paid for and b) they can rest assured that there'll be new software being released for a long time to come.
Obviously, not all of the above implications are always true, however, I'm nothing but *describing* potential customers' thoughts.
On another note, I'd like to add that I know perfectly well that not all of the people remembering the 'Amiga' name have positive feelings about it. In fact, the people knowing 'Amiga' could be divdided into three major categories: First, there is the one containing people who *loved* Amiga computers and still have fond memories of using them. Second, we have another category containing all the people who never liked Amigas or perhaps made some bad experiences with Amiga hardware/software in their past. Last but not least, there is the "I have very fuzzy memories of what an Amiga is or was, but the name sure sounds cool" category which, I think, most of the people could be accounted to. In any case, it should be noted that the *majority* of people knowing the 'Amiga' name have either positive or at least neutral feelings towards it.
Obviously, all of this becomes meaningless if it is too expensive to license or simply buy the name, yet I must object against your view that the Amiga name is pretty much worthless in todays world. There are better brands, that's for sure. Nevertheless, 'Amiga' still enjoys a decent amount of brand recognition over here in Europe. (Just for the record, by far the biggest record label in former German Democratic Republic/East Germany was also named 'Amiga' so there are likely to be another 5 million people who will remember the name, albeit if they might have never used a computer before.)
Next Pegasos production sold out : Comment 204 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by cOrpse on 09-Jun-2002 14:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 191 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
"Damn, I didn't read what was posted before... So it was Hyperion's port
and wasn't running on MOS."
Always so quick to bite ;)
"Sorry all... "
Thats better
"(BTW, there REALLY are 2 mos ports of the game)"
The quake 2 source is GPL isn't it ? shouldn't these ports be freely available?
Next Pegasos production sold out : Comment 205 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by anonymous on 09-Jun-2002 14:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 197 (Daniel Miller):
Good grief.
Does the word 'pandering' mean anything here? No offense, but anyone with a business degree surely would recognize that the garage antics of 'mavericks' like Wozniak and Jobs are just a bit removed from today's marketplace. It's not just a matter of building a better mousetrap or having a dream.
But to see yet another OS as viable in a market where heavily capitalized ventures like Linux and Tao have such a small proportion of the user base is beyond nuts.
Next Pegasos production sold out : Comment 206 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by TBone on 09-Jun-2002 14:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 204 (cOrpse):
> The quake 2 source is GPL isn't it ? shouldn't these ports be freely available?
No. The GPL only requires you distribute sources *IF* you distribute the software, if you don't give it to anyone, theres no need to give the source either.
Next Pegasos production sold out : Comment 207 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 09-Jun-2002 14:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 204 (cOrpse):
> The quake 2 source is GPL isn't it ? shouldn't these ports be freely available?
They have not be released at all. Moreover the GPL licence doesn't say
anything about free software, it talks about free source code. You're
free to sell GPLed software as long as you provide the source freely.
But this isn't the case with the Q2 ports so far, they won't be sold.
Next Pegasos production sold out : Comment 208 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Bill on 09-Jun-2002 14:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 203 (André Siegel):
Hi Andre --
What you have written is very good and very true.
We never said the trademark was worthless! In Germany it is quite good. UK too. France, Italy, Spain, it is not quite as good, but it is still OK. But, it is not for us...maybe something else.
The problem *for us* is what is it now? Is it something from before? Is it something for the future? What is it today? It is all to confusing.
The biggest challenge the eclipsis will face is a marketing one. What is it? Its everything! That sounds way too positive. The marketing approach needs to be built around simple concepts. "It has to do what people do already just more easily and anywhere." This is a huge challenge. There is too much baggage in the "Amiga" name for this -- FOR US.
The Pegasos is a piece of hardware and this we are convinced will stand on its own. It does not need the association. We build toward the eclipsis with the success of the Pegasos. That is phase one.
MorphOS will ride the wave...:)
These are our ambitions.
Again, your thoughts are solid.
Sincerely,
Bill
Next Pegasos production sold out : Comment 209 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Anders Kjeldsen on 09-Jun-2002 14:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 202 (Bill):
Are Vesalia or KDE considered to be re-sellers to you? Would they be getting Pegasos directly from BPlan or from you?
Next Pegasos production sold out : Comment 210 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Bill on 09-Jun-2002 15:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 205 (anonymous):
Another Mr. Anonymous!
Good grief yourself!
The best way for an OS to become viable in the market is *with* a piece of corresponding hardware. Linux is open source and that is something different. How many versions are there today? A closed source environment has produced a few more successes than Apple. Palm and Psion came to the market successfully because the hardware and OS went together and they did something new. And, why not consider Video Game Players as long as we are thinking about this...
Palm was the king of the handheld OS before CE. The first versions of CE weren't so good, but Microsoft threw money at the problems and that seems to be working. The iPaq has been very successful.
The key is to be unique as a package. Linux is what has created the big opportunity for the Pegasos. Hopefully, "amiga" can contribute to this success too. But, the next step is a combination of hardware and an OS that is dedicated and ready to do something new.
@ Anders
Of course, Versalia and KDE can be considered resellers. We are communicating with them both. We bought most of our Amiga equipment from Guido. How do we physically get product to them? That is just a matter of figuring out is the best and cheapest way to get the boards where they need to be. How will it be billed? Through Thendic-France. We are managing the distribution process. bplan has more important things to do now!
I am out of here this weekend. Thanks for all the emails!
Sincerely,
Bill
Next Pegasos production sold out : Comment 211 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by André Siegel on 09-Jun-2002 15:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 208 (Bill):
"We never said the trademark was worthless! In Germany it is quite good. UK too. France, Italy, Spain, it is not quite as good, but it is still OK. But, it is not for us...maybe something else."
That's fine with me. I just wanted to point out that *if* there was a chance to buy the 'Amiga' name at a decent price (whatever that means), one should go for it.
"The problem *for us* is what is it now? Is it something from before? Is it something for the future? What is it today? It is all to confusing."
First and foremost, it is a name that is still being recognized. No more, no less. I seriously doubt that many people still have strong associations in regards of what 'Amiga' might represent today. It's been too much time since the demise of Commodore, I think. But then again, I believe it's actually a good thing that people might only remember there was once a quite popular homecomputer with that name (which suddenly disappeared at point in time).
"The biggest challenge the eclipsis will face is a marketing one. What is it? Its everything! That sounds way too positive."
Oh yess :)
"The marketing approach needs to be built around simple concepts. "It has to do what people do already just more easily and anywhere." This is a huge challenge. There is too much baggage in the "Amiga" name for this -- FOR US."
I'm not sure if the baggage bit is true (see above), but I can easily accept there are people who might think different on this matter.
"The Pegasos is a piece of hardware and this we are convinced will stand on its own. It does not need the association."
I agree. It's a 'just' motherboard afterall.
"MorphOS will ride the wave...:)"
The funny thing is, from a marketing point of view, the blue butterfly one can find on www.morphos.de, is a really excellent symbol and would be an almost perfect choice for everyone building up a new brand.
("Look, daddy, there is that computer with the blue butterfly again!" sounds way cooler than "Hey, dad, there is an apple on this laptop!")
If one was to make a study about what people think when seeing butterflies, I'm pretty sure the end result would be that 99% of all test persons would come up with very positive associations only.
(The light blue is also an excellent choice of colour, btw.)
Next Pegasos production sold out : Comment 212 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by André Siegel on 09-Jun-2002 15:35 GMT
In reply to Comment 211 (André Siegel):
990f99 percent
Next Pegasos production sold out : Comment 213 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by cOrpse on 09-Jun-2002 15:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 207 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
"anything about free software"
I retract that , what i meant was that everyone that wants it can get it.
A decent quake 2 port could temp me into running mos for a short time , before i delete the leaked hyperion port was working pretty well for me tho.
Next Pegasos production sold out : Comment 214 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 09-Jun-2002 15:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 213 (cOrpse):
> before i delete the leaked hyperion port was working pretty well for me tho.
And you haven't tested the current version yet:)
Next Pegasos production sold out : Comment 215 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by anonymous on 09-Jun-2002 16:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 211 (André Siegel):
"The funny thing is, from a marketing point of view, the blue butterfly... is a really excellent symbol and would be an almost perfect choice for everyone building up a new brand."
If only it were an example of unique creative thought. The blue butterfly has long been associated with WordPerfect.
Next Pegasos production sold out : Comment 216 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 09-Jun-2002 17:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 203 (André Siegel):
>All of this makes people feel comfortable in believing that this company won't go bankrupt anytime soon
*lol*
Let's go counting how many times Amiga went bancrupt...
Next Pegasos production sold out : Comment 217 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Daniel Miller on 09-Jun-2002 17:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 205 (anonymous):
Well, I acknowledged the dominance of Windows in posing the question as to if the success of Wozniak and Jobs could be recreated. Don't know what you do for work but in business the way to succeed is indeed to build a better mousetrap, although yes you are correct that that is not the only important thing. No-one was claiming otherwise.
Mr. Anonymous (Ben?) I get a sense of where you are coming from with your criticisms of this and that and even the MorphOS butterfly. I remember even Bill McEwen said a couple years ago "Microsoft has won the battle for the desktop" and I remember knowing he was wrong then. They have only won the desktop of today. They have not won the future. So I would say that the way to succeed is not by lamenting the fact that Linux gets more capitalization and so forth, but rather by going ahead and doing your thing and in the case of bPlan/MorphOS proceeding with the financial synergy generated by the hardware software combination.
Next Pegasos production sold out : Comment 218 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by cOrpse on 09-Jun-2002 18:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 214 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
"And you haven't tested the current version yet:)"
True , altho the old hyperion ran for about 3/4 of an hour on my amiga and then the system came down , thats an all time record for something ppc running on my bag'o'shite , except sometimes i can get it to run ppc RC5 for about a week but as soon as you come back and move the mouse it spats does some gfx scrambling and locks up :( . I should give it to someone local that i don't like and let it piss um off but knowing my luck it'd probaly work for them grr its happened before with a magnum ( remember those ? ) ram board that failed to pick up in my now dead a1200 , and worked sweet in theirs grrr. Custard on the pie is they gave me a tenner for it and i got a viper 030 of my mate with it :) amiga justice.
Anyways back to getting over a hang over thats effected everything but my head.
Next Pegasos production sold out : Comment 219 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by André Siegel on 09-Jun-2002 19:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 216 (Anonymous):
"lol*
Let's go counting how many times Amiga went bancrupt..."
Re-read my comment. I didn't say people were right making assumptions of this type.
Next Pegasos production sold out : Comment 220 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by André Siegel on 09-Jun-2002 19:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 215 (anonymous):
"If only it were an example of unique creative thought. The blue butterfly has long been associated with WordPerfect."
http://www.wordperfect.com - I can't see any blue butterflies on this page, can you?
Next Pegasos production sold out : Comment 221 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Jürgen Lange on 09-Jun-2002 21:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 220 (André Siegel):
André, you do not know very much about WordPerfect, don't you. You
have to go back, when WP was a company and not only a brand and
product owned by Corel. I'm knowing a dealer, who has a lot of old
boxes with Amiga and Atari versions of WordPerfect in his shop. There
you will see this blue butterflies, too.
This dealer had had a mailbox system in the past (O.T.I.S.) which was
based on hard- and software similar to this used for the COMBO mailbox
(Commodore Deutschland).
Some history.... ;-)
Next Pegasos production sold out : Comment 222 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 09-Jun-2002 21:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 219 (André Siegel):
Ok, but how many people did you ask - 1000? Maybe we should make Emnid start a survey...
Next Pegasos production sold out : Comment 223 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 09-Jun-2002 21:10 GMT
In reply to Comment 221 (Jürgen Lange):
>There you will see this blue butterflies, too.
But are they Morphos as in MorphOS? :-)
Next Pegasos production sold out : Comment 224 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by amigammc on 09-Jun-2002 22:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 196 (Johan Rönnblom):
>My personal opinion is that AmigaDE/OS5 is a product which no one
>will need and no one will want
As opposed to MOS that everybody needs and everybody wants...?
>Pegasos, on the other hand, will probably get itself a very small niche.
Very small being an euphemism
>It might survive, if a special market can be targetted.
On that account we could say that the AtariST has survived
Next Pegasos production sold out : Comment 225 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by André Siegel on 10-Jun-2002 04:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 221 (Jürgen Lange):
"André, you do not know very much about WordPerfect, don't you."
Well, I think I know a fair bit about its history in the early 90s/late 80s, however, it's true that I've never used WordPerfect myself.
"You have to go back, when WP was a company and not only a brand and
product owned by Corel. I'm knowing a dealer, who has a lot of old
boxes with Amiga and Atari versions of WordPerfect in his shop. There
you will see this blue butterflies, too."
My point was that the current owner of WordPerfect is obviously not convinced that blue butterflies would be great symbols for any of their products. And since Corel bought WordPerfect eight and a half years ago, I doubt the butterfly logo has been in use for a long time after the deal was completed (which was in January 1996, I think).
Anyway, do you know if it was the same colour tone? Was it light blue? Or dark blue?
"This dealer had had a mailbox system in the past (O.T.I.S.) which was
based on hard- and software similar to this used for the COMBO mailbox
(Commodore Deutschland)."
I've never used one of these either, I'm afraid :)
"Some history.... ;-)"
It's appreciated ;)
Next Pegasos production sold out : Comment 226 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by anarchic_teapot on 10-Jun-2002 08:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 158 (Bill):
"We can answer all her questions. We can do it here or privately."
But you have done neither. Besides, I have no questions. Only facts you don't seem to like very much.
"Rose rejected our request to call her"
Damn right. Nor do I intend to visit your office.
" and the emails between us directly have been less than constructive -- completely on her account."
I don't reply to threats and bluster.
"We sent her the email addresses of our chief auditor and our corporate lawyer."
That's nice. The fact that they have nothing to do with the case in hand is irrelevant, as you well know.
"She has chosen the public forum. We have been forced to respond. "
Naturally a public forum. I want to open people's eyes to what Thendic/Pretory really are, and I must say you've done a sterling job in helping me in this.
"You are hardly the professional you claim to be."
Ad hominem attacks are used by those who know their position to be weak.
Next Pegasos production sold out : Comment 227 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Bill on 10-Jun-2002 08:14 GMT
In reply to Comment 226 (anarchic_teapot):
Dear Rose,
Thank you for your flattering posts.
It is really wonderful to have an exchange with you.
Best regards,
Bill
Next Pegasos production sold out : Comment 228 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Klaus M. (Denmark) on 10-Jun-2002 09:36 GMT
We want AmigaOS4.0 to run on Pegasos!!!!!
Next Pegasos production sold out : Comment 229 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Björn Hagström on 10-Jun-2002 10:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 228 (Klaus M. (Denmark)):
You'd better find a reseller that can stock up on a few pegasoses and who wants to sign the quality license from AInc and show him/her that there are customers interrested in such an arrangement. You will not get a OS4 cabable PegasOS from Bill Buck and affiliated parties, ever.
/Björn
Next Pegasos production sold out : Comment 230 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 10-Jun-2002 10:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 226 (anarchic_teapot):
Rose,
Why don't you give us a summary on what is wrong in Thedic/Pretory in your opinion? I have seen only out-of-context quotes of some documents, but I'm sure many of us would like a summary. Bill could also comment that, perhaps?
Next Pegasos production sold out : Comment 231 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Simon on 10-Jun-2002 12:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 151 (Mekanix):
Bah, I think I'll do an about face
> But let me ask you, do you genuinely believe that Ben Hermanns *isn't* eg. >accusing the MorphOS team of using the 3.1-sources?
Yeah, you are right he has.
Next Pegasos production sold out : Comment 232 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Simon on 10-Jun-2002 12:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 159 (cheesegrate):
Fucks sake...
>like a amino sheep
When a word starts with a vowel, use 'an' instead of 'a'. Just like how you would speak it. I only pick because I assume English is your native language.
Next Pegasos production sold out : Comment 233 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Simon on 10-Jun-2002 12:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 181 (Marcus Sundman):
> Ben thought "sources" meant "source code"
And who the hell wouldn't think that? Example, I just downloaded the Linux kernel "source" - what do you think i mean???? I downloaded a description of the kernel achitecture? A picture of a penguin???? hardcore porn? No, I think 99% of people would think 'soucecode'...
Next Pegasos production sold out : Comment 234 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Simon on 10-Jun-2002 12:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 206 (TBone):
Just a theoretical question...
> No. The GPL only requires you distribute sources *IF* you distribute the >software, if you don't give it to anyone, theres no need to give the source >either.
If they have been 'leaked' then they have been distributed, even if against the programmers will?
Next Pegasos production sold out : Comment 235 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Simon on 10-Jun-2002 12:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 229 (Björn Hagström):
> We want AmigaOS4.0 to run on Pegasos!!!!!
You mean 'you' do. The problem here, too many people speaking for the 'amiga community'. (note, I want AOS4 on Peg too).
> You'd better find a reseller that can stock up on a few pegasoses and who wants >to sign the quality license from AInc
Well, the sad thing is (sad for these stupid threads, but good for my sanity) that this CAN happen.
Next Pegasos production sold out : Comment 236 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Hoggett on 10-Jun-2002 12:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 234 (Simon):
Correct, but it is the distributor's responsibility to make sure the sources are available.
Thus, if someone leaks the binaries without being able to make the sources available, it is that person who is breaking the license agreement.
Next Pegasos production sold out : Comment 237 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 10-Jun-2002 13:27 GMT
In reply to Comment 234 (Simon):
tHE gpl DOESNT CONSIDER "lEAKED" TO BE "dISTRIBUTION"
Next Pegasos production sold out : Comment 238 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 10-Jun-2002 14:57 GMT
In reply to Comment 233 (Simon):
> > Ben thought "sources" meant "source code"
>And who the hell wouldn't think that? Example, I just downloaded the Linux
>kernel "source" - what do you think i mean???? I downloaded a description of
>the kernel achitecture? A picture of a penguin???? hardcore porn? No, I think
>99% of people would think 'soucecode'...
Well, that might hold very true if we were talking of software here. But Bill spoke of the Cyberstorm PPC "sources". I'm sure Ben read it as "source code for software of Cyberstorm PPC" whereas I read it as "some source material for Cyberstorm PPC the piece of hardware". Source material could be anything. I mean, when it comes to hardware the word "sources" can have a whole lot wider meaning than when we are talking of software.
And Bill already "apologized" for his poor wording, so lets leave it at that. It was misunderstood. I am surprised by Ben's almost hostile reply though. The important thing here is that Thendic/bplan did co-operate with the AmigaOS 4 team this much. They could've easily not supported them at all, but they chose to support them with some material.
Next Pegasos production sold out : Comment 239 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Raquel and Bill on 10-Jun-2002 15:59 GMT
Good evening!
We have not had the time today to follow all this, but we will catch up on everything tomorrow.
First, the fun...
Thank you for all the emails. We really appreciate all your ideas, suggestions, and encouragement.
Second, the frustration...
Yes, Rose (226) and another Mr. Anonymous (230), why don't you do that. You post here everything you think is wrong in Thendic/Pretory (or even any of us!) -- please prepare a summary. We will do our best to answer and we will let the readers be the "judge." It is perfectly fine with us to proceed that way.
One quick note that seems to be escaping the discussion on "sources"...
The CyberStormPPC is an accelerator card that connects to Amiga hardware that should be running on a properly licensed version of the Amiga operating system. The only source code on the CyberStorm is in the flash* and if we had supplied this it would have created legal problems for us and Hyperion (with DCE by the way). The only thing that Ben could have wanted and did receive was was the documentation of the CyberStorm register descriptions. These were provided on *13* pages (not two or three). We have the fax confirmation for reciept of all 13 pages.
And, really Ben, if you could have had this information from Juergen why did you need to get it from us? We were all together in Cologne!
No more BS! No more FUD!
Sincerely,
Raquel and Bill
*except for some patches that are unnecessary/not vital to run the CyberStorm
Next Pegasos production sold out : Comment 240 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Darrin on 10-Jun-2002 21:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 239 (Raquel and Bill):
>>These were provided on *13* pages (not two or three). We have the fax confirmation for reciept of all 13 pages.
Nice try - why don't you put them in the fax machine the RIGHT SIDE UP and send them to Hyperion... I could fax you some used toilet paper and then announce I hace a "fax confirmation" for 13 pages of <insert topic of your choice here>. ;)
Anyway, I've sent LOADS of faxes over the years where my fax machine has confirmed ALL pages but only some (or none) have been received. So much for modern technology :)
Next Pegasos production sold out : Comment 241 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Darrin on 10-Jun-2002 21:35 GMT
OK, I think it is quite clear that both sides have now put their cards on the table. We should thank Bill and Raquel (can't be bothered to look back and see how it's spelt... sorry) for making the Thendic/bPlan/MorphOS position perfectly clear...
OS4 is NEVER going to run on the Pegasos because bPlan DON'T WANT IT TO.
Thendic are concerned with selling the Pegasos mobo and don't give a damn what the hell runs on it as long as they can sell it. Their main target is BUSINESS, but (and that's the whole point of this PR exercise) if they can get a few frustrated ex-Amiga users to purchase a couple of hundred boards then all the better. This means more profit for them, but don't expect any support down the road as that is not their problem.
So, in summary, if you want to run OS4 then use an AmigaOne, Shark or Cyberstorm solution. If you want to run MOS then buy a Pegasos (when they eventually become available). If you buy a Pegasos in the hope that OS4 will eventually be released for it then I'll write this scenario for you:
Dealer: Hi Thendic? I want to buy 200 Pegasos mobos to market with OS4.x as an official AmigaPPC solution.
Thendic: Excellent, let me take your order and payment.
Dealer: Hi, Amiga Inc? I have 200 Pegasos mobos I want to sell with OS4 as an Amiga PPC solution.
Amiga Inc: Excellent. Here's the contact details for Hyperion. Send them a mobo with the required hardware documentation and they can adjust the OS and get a dongle manufactured.
Hyperion: Hi, Dealer? Thanks for the mobo, but we can't get bPlan to release the technical information we need on the Pegasos in order to get the OS to work.
Dealer: Hang on... let me call them.
Dealer: Hi, bPlan? Can you supply me with the technical information to produce an OS for your mobo?
bPlan: Why? You have MOS, what more do you want???!!!
Dealer: Well, I bought these things to get OS4 up and running on them and sell them as Amiga's, but Hyperion say you won't send them the info required.
bPlan: They are lying. We sent it a week ago.
Dealer: Well can you send it to me then and I'll send it to them again personally.
bPlan: Sure.
Dealer: Hello, bPlan? It's been a month and I'm still trying to get those details from you from Hyperion. You keep ignoring my emails and phonecalls.
bPlan: f*&% off you Amiga Inc loving scum.
Dealer: Hello, Thendic? bPlan won't send me the information I need to get OS4 ported to the Pegasos. Is there anything you can do?
Thendic: No, we just sell hardware. Sell it with MOS.
Dealer: Nobody want's it with MOS, they want OS4. I'll have to return them to you for credit.
Thendic: Sorry, no refunds. OS4 isn't our problem, we only sell hardware. Besides, we have your money now.
Dealer: But I only bought them to run OS4.
Thendic: Sorry, we only sell hardware.... we only sell hardware... we only sell hardware... we only sell hardware...
Next Pegasos production sold out : Comment 242 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Björn Hagström on 11-Jun-2002 02:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 235 (Simon):
"> We want AmigaOS4.0 to run on Pegasos!!!!! "
I did not write this, please be careful with how you quote people, especially if you want the original author to respond to it. (Yes I mean that in a nice way)
/Björn
Next Pegasos production sold out : Comment 243 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 11-Jun-2002 04:35 GMT
In reply to Comment 241 (Darrin):
Darrin, how on earth did you come to that conclusion from these posts? Your view is certainly very biased. Thendic only made clear THEY sell hardware and their solution is directed towards another market. That is actually quite well in line with those Amiga Inc. fans that don't see MorphOS having a future within the Amiga community. The Pegasos people clearly have larger plans for the board, something people have been failing to grasp in the past. That is just plain smart considering negotiations with Amiga Inc. failed (negotiations have two parties, we can't really blame either for that in this case).
However, nowhere (please post a reference, not a biased way of reading between the lines) did they claim they wouldn't want AmigaOS to run on their hardware. Actually, it would be pretty understandable if they did (wanting to promote MorphOS instead) - its not like Eyetech have been rushing to get an AmigaOne to the MorphOS camp either, now have they - but they have only said (and that is Thendic, the current distributor, not bPlan) that at this time pursuing the Amiga community is left to other parties. I think this is being honest, but hey, feel free to look at it as another hostile act towards the "poor us".
Whatever.
Next Pegasos production sold out : Comment 244 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Daniel Miller on 11-Jun-2002 07:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 241 (Darrin):
Funny "play" Darrin, you should sell it to a bigtime producer and take it on Broadway in NYC. ;) However many users will prefer a MorphOS system, because the main thing is to run their existing Amiga (tm) apps. However yes there are some who have a personal relationship with the name and the Boing ball, and they will not. I think MorphOS has a good chance "outside" and that people will look at it like a new advanced thing.
Please author more funny satire for us though!
Next Pegasos production sold out : Comment 245 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Darrin on 11-Jun-2002 13:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 243 (Anonymous):
>>Darrin, how on earth did you come to that conclusion from these posts?
By reading them.
>>Your view is certainly very biased.
I'd rather use the word "objective".
>>Thendic only made clear THEY sell hardware and their solution is directed towards another market. That is actually quite well in line with those Amiga Inc. fans that don't see MorphOS having a future within the Amiga community. The Pegasos people clearly have larger plans for the board, something people have been failing to grasp in the past.
I totally agree and that's EXACTLY the point I was trying to get across. Thendic simply sell the mobos... nothing else. They are the wrong people to whine at about OS4 not running on it. However, as they are in the business of SELLING the MAXIMUM number of mobos, this posting in an AMiga orientated site is simply a way of CONNING Amiga users (and ex-Amiga users) into buying what they will think is a next generation PPC Amiga-ish machine. Thendic sell mobos... once you've bought it then they're gone and any problems you'll have will be in the hands of bPlan and RS... god help you!!!
>>That is just plain smart considering negotiations with Amiga Inc. failed (negotiations have two parties, we can't really blame either for that in this case).
The main reason why negotiations work is because BOTH parties have something of valve to bring to the table and have the WILL to work together towards a COMMON GOAL. Unfortunately, MOS is a one-man-show and a closed door to discussions.
>>However, nowhere (please post a reference, not a biased way of reading between the lines) did they claim they wouldn't want AmigaOS to run on their hardware.
No, they neatly avoided the question. ANyway, it's NOT their problem. It's bPlans (like I pointed out).
>>Actually, it would be pretty understandable if they did (wanting to promote MorphOS instead) - its not like Eyetech have been rushing to get an AmigaOne to the MorphOS camp either, now have they
Perhaps bPlan should try ORDERING one.... just like Hyperion ordered a Pegasos.
>> - but they have only said (and that is Thendic, the current distributor, not bPlan) that at this time pursuing the Amiga community is left to other parties. I think this is being honest, but hey, feel free to look at it as another hostile act towards the "poor us".
I see it as a PR game. However, I give them credit for giving an honest answer to the state of the mobo and MOS. They have confirmed that MOS is unfinished, they have confirmed that the only Pegasos boards in existanmce were made in a garage, they have confirmed that the next production run is for development only and they have confirmed that dealers/users are going to have to wait for a board. Their main target is INDUSTRY... so all you home MOS users are NOT their priority.
I think all MOS fans should buy a Pegasos... you all deserve one. It will also be interesting to see just how much support you get down the road. I support the official board and I'll buy an AmigaOne (and a Shark+ for my A3000). What I want to see is all you MOS supporters who are so against Amiga Inc put your hands in your pockets and buy the Pegasos.
Regards
Whatever.
Next Pegasos production sold out : Comment 246 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Darrin on 11-Jun-2002 13:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 244 (Daniel Miller):
Thanks... I'm glad someone else enjoys satire and could see the humour in my post :)
I guess I watched too much "Spitting Image" when I lived in the UK.
Next Pegasos production sold out : Comment 247 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 11-Jun-2002 14:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 245 (Darrin):
> >>Your view is certainly very biased.
> I'd rather use the word "objective".
Really?
> I totally agree and that's EXACTLY the point I was trying to get across.
> Thendic simply sell the mobos... nothing else. They are the wrong people to
> whine at about OS4 not running on it.
Agreed. Thendic/Pretory sells motherboards. I don't agree they sell nothing else, as obviously they do sell various solutions (that have nothing to do with Amiga) - however, that is pretty much irrelevant here.
> However, as they are in the business of SELLING the MAXIMUM number of mobos,
> this posting in an AMiga orientated site is simply a way of CONNING Amiga
> users (and ex-Amiga users) into buying what they will think is a next
How on Earth did you come to that conclusion? Sure, they are here to market their product. So is Amiga Inc. and plenty of other companies. They have also clearly said Pegasos - for Thendic - is an eclipsis developer board. They want developers. Surprise, surprise, so does Amiga Inc. (for their AmigaDE). This is hardly what I'd call "conning" when they say it out loud. And Bill said it. In fact, it is pretty much the same thing Amiga Inc. did with AmigaDE.
If you want to use the Pegasos as an AmigaOS compatible machine, Thendic have said they will not provide the solution but someone else is free to do so (that much is clear from their messages). Nowhere did they say they would not provide any help, or that you'd be left completely on your own. They sell and support their product, the motherboard. AmigaOS compatibility is no longer in the list of their priorities since the negotiations with Amiga Inc. were inconclusive.
> once you've bought it then they're gone and any problems you'll have will be
> in the hands of bPlan and RS... god help you!!!
Oh c'mon. And you call that objective? That is extremely speculatory and highly insulting. People behind bPlan and R.S. too have brought us some great advancements throughout the Amiga history. That is far more many of us can confess to. Badmouting them like this doesn't have a place in a good debate on the issues.
>>That is just plain smart considering negotiations with Amiga Inc. failed
>(negotiations have two parties, we can't really blame either for that in this
> The main reason why negotiations work is because BOTH parties have something
> of valve to bring to the table and have the WILL to work together towards a
> COMMON GOAL. Unfortunately, MOS is a one-man-show and a closed door to
> discussions.
In this case both parties had something of value to bring to the table. bPlan had MorphOS. Amiga Inc. had the Amiga trademark. Which one you value more is up to you. They did try to find a solution, but Amiga wanted control and bPlan wanted control. Obviously both couldn't have it under a deal. Whether or not a common goal can be found is one of the objectives of a negotiation - including, of course, finding the means to get there. Always it doesn't work. In this case, it certainly did not. Blaming just bPlan for it is ridiciluos - Amiga were just as much a player in it. Why don't you attack them as well?
Personally I wouldn't attack either one. Negotiatations are about finding common ground. In this case not enough was found, obviously, and that's just the way the world works. Why should've bPlan made any more concessions than Amiga Inc.? (Or, for that matter, why should Amiga Inc. make any more concessions than bPlan?) It is a game for two. Both played. Winners and losers are still to be determined.
> No, they neatly avoided the question. ANyway, it's NOT their problem. It's
> bPlans (like I pointed out).
What are they supposed to say then? Amiga is not a priority for them. They admitted as much. With limited boards available, they are working towards their primary goal - which is the eclipsis, AFAIK, and Pegasos as a developer board for it. Also, they can't say it will run AmigaOS because they won't be able to guarantee it.
> > instead) - its not like Eyetech have been rushing to get an AmigaOne to the
> > MorphOS camp either, now have they
> Perhaps bPlan should try ORDERING one.... just like Hyperion ordered a
> Pegasos.
According to some sources here they have ordered one. Like many other developers, people are still waiting for their AmigaOnes. They have not been delivered yet even though they should've been weeks ago (early May the latest). Same goes for Pegasos. It is not yet available in numbers, it is late just like the AmigaOne. Hence (my speculation) not enough boards to justify giving one to a developer that doesn't benefit the primary market for Pegasos (eclipsis development). There are plenty of valid reasons for both parties to work this way with the limited number of boards that are out there.
> I see it as a PR game. However, I give them credit for giving an honest
> answer to the state of the mobo and MOS. They have confirmed that MOS is
> unfinished, they have confirmed that the only Pegasos boards in existanmce
> were made in a garage, they have confirmed that the next production run is
> for development only and they have confirmed that dealers/users are going to
> have to wait for a board. Their main target is INDUSTRY... so all you home
> MOS users are NOT their priority.
MOS desktop users are not their priority, that is certainly how it does seem. But then, that was bPlan's plan all along as I saw it. They always spoke of other markets, not just the Amiga market. bPlan website is not directed at Amiga users at all. Obviously they would've wanted to do more here as well, but the negotiations with Amiga Inc. failed and they decided to pretty much forget about it. Or at least that is what Bill seems to say of Thendic, I'm not sure how bPlan itself plays into all this. They have been pretty quiet.
> I think all MOS fans should buy a Pegasos... you all deserve one.
Yeah, indeed. I call that _so_ objective.
Please, why can't we debate the issues and forget the insults?
Next Pegasos production sold out : Comment 248 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Bill on 11-Jun-2002 14:46 GMT
In reply to Comment 245 (Darrin):
Hi Darrin,
After you catch you breath why don't you read a little more carefully the things we have said on this thread. You have misread a few key things and we do not have the time to address them all in another post.
The most important thing is this: we are not interested in doing anything to get OS4 running on the Pegasos. Someone else is welcome to and we will support them. The main reason is because we will not devote the resources or time to become "amiga" approved.
You are welcome to send me an email and we can discuss anything you want.
Best regards,
Bill
Next Pegasos production sold out : Comment 249 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Darrin on 11-Jun-2002 15:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 248 (Bill):
Dear Bill,
After making the last two posts I noticed you had already sent me an email regarding my previous two. I have replied and I hope that it makes my position quite clear. The confusing thing seems to be that I'm not actually AGAINST you (Thendic) and that the villian in this whole mess (in my eyes) is bPlan/MOS and their attempts to hi-jack the Amiga name.
As I said in my email to you, I wish you luck selling boards to the business community and I hope bPlan get off their high horse and get OS4 developed for the Pegasos. Unfortunately, as long as Ralph Schmidt is around there is no chance of this. Oh well, what do I care? I'm getting OS4...
Next Pegasos production sold out : Comment 250 of 280ANN.lu
Posted by Bill on 11-Jun-2002 15:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 249 (Darrin):
Hi Darrin, yes I have your email, but I had it just after the posted. Thanks.
As I explained bplan and Thendic are really on the same team. Maybe someday we will even be together corporately if the eclipsis turns out like we all hope it will!
I think you will find that the bplan guys are alot better than they are portrayed. Ralph's last interview on line was very good and that was nearly eight months ago. He is very excited about this whole process and is actually a pretty level headed guy.
Best regards,
Bill
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