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[Files] AwebPPC releasedANN.lu
Posted on 16-Jun-2002 05:45 GMT by Mark Olsen221 comments
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AWebPPC for MorphOS has been released. After 7 days of work, AWebPPC is finally available for the public.

Enjoy this fast PPC browser.

Downloads:
Binaries (622kB) - Readme
Sources (1536kB) - Readme
AwebPPC released : Comment 201 of 221ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 20-Jun-2002 11:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 200 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
BTW, you talk about trademarks... Did you get permission from proDAD for your
pro-p.OS project? p.OS/pOS is a trademark too:)
AwebPPC released : Comment 202 of 221ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 20-Jun-2002 11:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 200 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
> 1) Games that kill AmigaOS completely (that is destroying the execbase etc
> like capital punishment) are not Amiga games.
They are not defined as Amiga games due to the fact that they are using Amiga hardware, it's because they use the AmigaOS. Does capital punishment kill the ROM and launch it's own OS and hardware drivers? No. You see, the AmigaROM is where the low level stuff of AmigaOS is, it's the very core of it. Just because you don't run the startup-sequence and boot into Workbench, that doesn't mean you're not using the AmigaOS. Try booting without startup-sequence sometime and notice what the AmigaDOS prompt tells you, completely without booting from floppy or harddrive.
> 2) So, I'm not able to announce an Amiga piece of completely hw hitting
> software cause it doesn't run on AmigaOS, but kills it off. Get serious!
There is no Amiga computer without an AmigaROM and in order for an application to run without the AmigaROM, you'll have to create your own hardware drivers, memory manager, application launcher, etc. I'm pretty sure the makers of capital punishment didn't do this, so...
> 3) Ah ok, AmigaInc. has the right to restrict anyone from writing any OS for
> Amigas and say that it's an OS for Amigas, as Amiga is their trademark.
> I thought I was talking with a a smart guy and not a totally stupid one...
> GET SERIOUS!
I'm very serious, Amiga Inc. owns the trademarks "Amiga" and "AmigaOS" and therefore the MorphOS team may NOT use those trademarks when marketing their own product which is in direct competition with Amiga Inc.'s product. Sure, anyone is allowed to make an alternative OS for the classic Amiga hardware if they like but they may still not use those words when marketing it, period. You think it would be legal to advertise LinuxPPC as a Mac OS simply because it runs on Mac hardware?
Anyway, why do you keep mixing applications with operating systems? Applications is an entirely different thing, they require an OS regardless of the hardware beneath. Linux applications are Linux applications, regardless of the hardware. If I run Netscape on LinuxAPUS, does that make Netscape an Amiga application? No, it's still a Linux application. Linux and Windows runs on the same hardware but they are still different *platforms*. It's simply because you define platforms by the OS, not the hardware. Will you please get this into your head!
AwebPPC released : Comment 203 of 221ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 20-Jun-2002 11:55 GMT
In reply to Comment 201 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
Pro-POS is not the same thing as pOS. We've never used the term pOS and we never will. We haven't even decided for a name yet, Pro-POS is just the name of the project, not the OS. And yes, we did look things up before deciding to use Pro-POS.
Enough about that, already. That has nothing to do with Amiga and we don't want it to be associated as such either.
AwebPPC released : Comment 204 of 221ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 20-Jun-2002 12:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 202 (Samface):
So you don't really now how pure hardware hitting apps work...
Some KILL the OS, flush it from the memory to have in available
for their use, and POKE the hardware directly. NO device drivers
no anything. Direct POKING. Try Capital Punishment. You can't boot
AmigaOS again if you run it, you have to make a cold reset or power off.
The application launcher is an AmigaOS program, what the code does
afterwards is another sotry. You know, MorphOS's launcher is an AmigaOS
program as well. About the memory manager, yeah many games do that.
You know this is not the PC market where every program is an OS legal one.
You know in the Commodore times Amiga was a HARDWARE platform. Commodore
shipped the Amiga3000UX which was a UNIX box. It was AN AMIGA. They announced
it as such and distributed it as such, but it didn't run AmigaOS, it did run
UNIX. So... You're wrong.
AwebPPC released : Comment 205 of 221ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 20-Jun-2002 12:44 GMT
In reply to Comment 204 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
Capital Punishment uses an exec function in order to turn off the multitasking and some other services by the OS, that indeed saves a few extra kilobytes of RAM, but it doesn't turn it off. I'm sorry but do you know what it takes in order to just boot up a computer, do you know what it takes to understand the most basic functions such as reading a filesystem, recognize the graphics chipset, activate expansionslots and recognize possible expansion cards, handle interrupt calls, reserve memory for all the different processes launched, etc.? Without the ROM, all of this would require you to write your own OS, starting with a bootstrap and then go from there. This would be a project much greater than the game itself and isn't very feasible or cost effective at all. I say this because I know this, remember why? If you think you know better, you know where to find us. We could always use another expert, you know...
In a much shorter version; Capital Punishment is not it's own OS just because it reboots and turns off some of the OS services. The most vital things is still there and doing it's job.
AwebPPC released : Comment 206 of 221ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 20-Jun-2002 12:49 GMT
In reply to Comment 205 (Samface):
Do you know that you're talking about a game made for a specific game
for a specific computer with a specific chipset and that it fails to run
on many accelerator cards?
Capital punishment kills off most of the OS. It may use the filesystem routines in some parts, but explain why you can't go back to AmigaOS after running it
on 2mb systems. You can NOT go back. Reboot and the system resets inself forever
without guruing. You have to coldreset or turn the power off.
AwebPPC released : Comment 207 of 221ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 20-Jun-2002 12:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 205 (Samface):
BTW, there are games that do not use the filesystem at all... You know the games with the 100% custom loader with a custom disk structure, like... most
hardware hitting games.... BTW, did you think that SNES games for example
use any kind of (not existing) OS? The same happens with Amiga games...
AwebPPC released : Comment 208 of 221ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 20-Jun-2002 13:00 GMT
In reply to Comment 204 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
BTW: Amiga Inc. owns the trademark "Amiga" and therefore they decide what is "Amiga" and noone else. Commodore allowed the A3000UX to be called an Amiga which was fine since they owned the trademark. The MorphOS team isn't allowed to call their product "Amiga" anything since they don't have permission from the trademark owner.
This means that I have two arguments against the MorphOS team calling their product "Amiga next generation PowerPC OS":
1. You define the platform by the OS, not the hardware.
2. The exception is when you have permission from the trademark owner of that platform.
AwebPPC released : Comment 209 of 221ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 20-Jun-2002 13:09 GMT
In reply to Comment 206 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
Hrm... Do you realize the effect of turning off multitasking? Do you realize the effect of not booting "workbench" at all? This means that you won't be able to use the AmigaOS GUI (ie Workbench) anymore but that doesn't mean the OS isn't there, you know...
Game consoles has a built-in ROM with a small OS that launches the game when powered on, just like an Amiga with a floppy/harddrive disk inserted or a PC with a floppy/harddrive inserted. You didn't know this? You thought every game developer had to make their own OS everytime they make a game? Have you even understood the purpose of having an OS? I don't mean to sound patronizing but you seem to know very little for making so much noise...
AwebPPC released : Comment 210 of 221ANN.lu
Posted by Georg Steger on 20-Jun-2002 13:35 GMT
You don't need to (and hw banging games usually did not) call any
OS function to turn off multitasking/kill the OS/or anything. You
just do things like disable interrupts, change interrupt vectors.
Stuff like that. Everything by poking to the hardware/custom registers.
Once the OS is killed one could even physically destroy (if it was
possible while running the computer) the ROM which contains the AmigaOS
ROM (or flip every bit in there or whatever) and many games would still
continue to run.
There are really lots of hw banging games which work like this. AFAIK there
are even some small (mostly) dummy ROM files for UAE, which are enough to make
such hw banging games work, as they don't need 99,9% of the AmigaOS at all.
AwebPPC released : Comment 211 of 221ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 20-Jun-2002 13:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 207 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
Sure, an application can shutdown the filesystem service and read the raw data from the disk directly. However, what do you think launched the application from the beginning? You think applications magicly launches themselves when the power is turned on? No, it's launched by exec within the AmigaROM which you can tell to shutdown certain OS services if you like but you would basicly be a sitting duck if you turned it off completely. You need something that can recognize and execute program binaries and make the hardware available to the new process, which is what exec does.
AwebPPC released : Comment 212 of 221ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 20-Jun-2002 13:45 GMT
In reply to Comment 210 (Georg Steger):
To me, exec is so much more than just 0.01% of the OS, but that's me. However, regardless of how little of the OS you think is used, it is used.
AwebPPC released : Comment 213 of 221ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 20-Jun-2002 14:01 GMT
In reply to Comment 209 (Samface):
It seems that you know about nothing about old console games, where the cartridge holded the "system ROM", booted it up and run the game itself.
There was NO system rom on board... The coder did everything they wanted..
no OS or anything...
BTW, you seem to know nothing about hardware hitting... There are games that
can run without even having the OS in the ROM and run with a dummy ROM under
UAE, as Goerg stated...
So? You'll claim that you know more about Amigas than Goerg?
AwebPPC released : Comment 214 of 221ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 20-Jun-2002 14:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 212 (Samface):
HAH! You're telling Steger about the OS... LOL. Sorry, but the fact that
they run WITHOUT the full AmigaOS Kickstart ROM means that they do not
use the OS as... It's not there witth a dummy rom...
AwebPPC released : Comment 215 of 221ANN.lu
Posted by Alkis Tsapanidis on 20-Jun-2002 14:23 GMT
In reply to Comment 214 (Alkis Tsapanidis):
BTW, with your logic, what launched AmigaOS in the Amiga 1000 then?
The whole Kickstart ROM (including exec) was in a disk as you may
remember as you did have an A1000.
AwebPPC released : Comment 216 of 221ANN.lu
Posted by Georg Steger on 20-Jun-2002 15:17 GMT
In reply to Comment 212 (Samface):
> To me, exec is so much more than just 0.01% of the OS, but that's me. However, regardless of how little of the OS you think
> is used, it is used.
Actually once those hw banging games have killed the OS, they don't even
use exec anymore. Memory management? --> often those games simply organized
everything at fixed RAM addresses. Code at 0x70000, level data at 0x80000,
screen bitmaps at 0x40000.
AwebPPC released : Comment 217 of 221ANN.lu
Posted by Frodon on 20-Jun-2002 15:24 GMT
In reply to Comment 208 (Samface):
Hello Sammy,
Sorry but an Amiga is the hardware ONLY like a PC is the hardware only and a Mac is the hardware only.
So LinuxAPUS/68k is an OS for Amiga (so an Amiga OS) like Linux x86 is a OS fro PC (so a PC OS) and LinuxPPC a OS for Macs (a Mac OS).
So yes just like for Linux, MorphOS is an OS for Amigas too, so an Amiga OS. Note that an Amiga OS is not the same as AmigaOS, the space make the difference.
If you are not agree with this you are simply wrong.
Regards
AwebPPC released : Comment 218 of 221ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 20-Jun-2002 17:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 217 (Frodon):
Welcome back, Frodon.
I'm sorry but I think you missed the point, we're trying to define the Amiga *platform*, not just the hardware. You see, defining the platform by the hardware used would make Linux an Amiga OS and all Linux 68k/PPC specific executables Amiga applications, which they are not. Linux is it's own platform regardless of the hardware it runs on. What would you call the Elate RTOS by TAO running on a Palmtop, a Palm OS? Well, that wouldn't make sense, now would it? You define a platform by the OS, not the hardware. Sure, Amiga was a hardware manufacturer creating their own Amiga hardware once but that's simply Amiga hardware, not the Amiga *platform*.
Amiga Inc. has gone over to making software only as they have learned this lesson the hard way, custom hardware only limits the potentials of the platform and that's why they intend to free the platform from such custom hardware boundries (for example, removing the OS custom chip dependencies as their first step).
Virtual processor technology and emulation has proven to us that hardware isn't the limiting factor of a platform anymore. Operating systems, on the other hand, defines the platform by it's services provided to the user as well as the applications using it. Linux, for example, makes alot of Linux specific applications compatible with any hardware where Linux is present through a simple recompilation. That's why you cannot define Linux by the hardware you run it on, the same goes for all platforms.
AwebPPC released : Comment 219 of 221ANN.lu
Posted by Samface on 20-Jun-2002 17:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 216 (Georg Steger):
Sigh... Twist it round and round all you like, that executable wouldn't run without the AmigaROM present in the first place, having it as a requirement is all it takes in order to be an Amiga program. End of story.
AwebPPC released : Comment 220 of 221ANN.lu
Posted by Frodon on 20-Jun-2002 19:07 GMT
In reply to Comment 218 (Samface):
Hello Sammy,
For me (and it's logical) an Amiga OS is an OS that run on Amiga computers, and so Linux is an Amiga OS. But linux in not an AmigaOS compatible OS.
So Linux is also a PC OS and a Mac OS. AmigaOS is only an Amiga OS. MorphOS is an Amiga OS and a Pegasos OS. MacOS is a Mac OS only. BeOS is a PC OS and a Mac OS...etc
So MorphOS is not an AmigaOS (of course) but is an Amiga OS (as it can run on current Amigas) ;-) Do you understand the difference? Linux is not an AmigaOS (of course too) but is an Amiga OS...etc
Regards
AwebPPC released : Comment 221 of 221ANN.lu
Posted by Raffaele on 21-Jun-2002 20:52 GMT
In reply to Comment 220 (Frodon):
Frodon wrote:
> For me (and it's logical) an Amiga OS is an OS
> that run on Amiga computers, and so Linux is an Amiga OS.
> But linux in not an AmigaOS compatible OS.
> So Linux is also a PC OS and a Mac OS.
> AmigaOS is only an Amiga OS.
> MorphOS is an Amiga OS and a Pegasos OS.
> MacOS is a Mac OS only.
> BeOS is a PC OS and a Mac OS...etc
>
> So MorphOS is not an AmigaOS (of course) but
> is an Amiga OS (as it can run on current Amigas) ;-)
> Do you understand the difference?
> Linux is not an AmigaOS (of course too) but is an Amiga OS...etc
Oh Shakespeare, Shakespeare where art thou?
This is the "AROS...???...
Ehm... pardon...
This is the "Rose with another name" question proposed again in its 21th century form for an unfortunate great princess, the Amiga...
Alas, poor Miner!
Bye...
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