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[News] Amithlon 2.0 delayedANN.lu
Posted on 29-Jun-2002 10:22 GMT by Bill Hoggett48 comments
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A post from Bernd Meyer on the Amithlon mailing list announces that the release date will be delayed.

Dear all,

It appears that the unfortunate past association of Amithlon with Haage & Partner has created one more stumbling block on the way tothe release of Amithlon 2.0.

Thus, it is extremely unlikely that I can make the planned release date; While the delay should hopefully be very short, I can not currently make any definite promises.

Please bear with me for just a little while longer,

thank you,

Bernd Meyer

Amithlon 2.0 delayed : Comment 1 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 29-Jun-2002 12:58 GMT
The damn H&P messing it up all again... :/
Amithlon 2.0 delayed : Comment 2 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 29-Jun-2002 13:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 1 (Anonymous):
Yeah, what did H&P ever do for us!
(Well, apart from OS3.5 and OS3.9 and the boingbags.. and publishing Art Effect and Amiga Writer and the WarpOS kernel and StormC and StormMesa and PageStream and Genesis...)
Yeah, Mr. Meyer's contribution to the Amiga is much more important!
He wrote a 68k JIT compiler so PC users can run Workbench on their Laptop. This was what was holding the Amiga back, after all.
Damn stupid H&P always ruining things... Why cant they leave the Amiga alone!
Amithlon 2.0 delayed : Comment 3 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by Hooligan/DCS on 29-Jun-2002 13:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Anonymous):
Under that huge load of sarcasm I can see your point :)
Amithlon 2.0 delayed : Comment 4 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by cheesetgrate on 29-Jun-2002 13:48 GMT
why is harald and bernie fighting ?
Amithlon 2.0 delayed : Comment 5 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by KenH on 29-Jun-2002 13:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 2 (Anonymous):
Unfortunately now, at the worst time, they are trying to milk this miniscule market. It really isn't doing them (let alone us) any favours. I for one certainly won't buy anything off them again.
Amithlon 2.0 delayed : Comment 6 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by anon on 29-Jun-2002 14:01 GMT
who is mr. meier anyway? rip off uae sources, write some jit and pretend to be the nice guy in public. does he have some amiga history at least?
Amithlon 2.0 delayed : Comment 7 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by Hababooboo on 29-Jun-2002 14:58 GMT
Looks like H&P want a piece of the pie and are pissing in everyone's soup until they get it.
Amithlon 2.0 delayed : Comment 8 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Hoggett on 29-Jun-2002 15:16 GMT
Folks, it may be a good idea to leave off H&P and the rest of the speculation for now. We don't KNOW what is causing the delay. Here's the announcement:
http://www.amithlon.net/demo.shtml
As for the people doing the dissing, if you don't have the guts not to hide behind anonymous posts, you can take your opinions and shove them where the sun don't shine.
Amithlon 2.0 delayed : Comment 9 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by Lizard on 29-Jun-2002 15:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (anon):
Before you spout hot air, you might want to check the history of Amithlon, it was NOT ripped of the uae sources but he asked permission.
Furthermore the bugfixes he made to Amithlon got backported to uae.
Amithlon 2.0 delayed : Comment 10 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by Lando/Trinity on 29-Jun-2002 17:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 7 (Hababooboo):
>Looks like H&P want a piece of the pie and are pissing in everyone's soup
>until they get it.
Huh? Care to expand on that?
Amithlon 2.0 delayed : Comment 11 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by Whistleblower on 29-Jun-2002 17:54 GMT
Bill Mcewin stated they "never recieved a dime" in licensing for -any- OS3.9 ever sold. Every copy of OS3.9 installed, is unlicenced. Every single one.
Add to this H&P are in violation of the *GPL* license in their distrobution of AmigaXL.
H&P are in some deep shiznit.
Amithlon 2.0 delayed : Comment 12 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by darklite on 29-Jun-2002 18:05 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (Whistleblower):
>Bill Mcewin stated they "never recieved a dime" in licensing for -any- OS3.9
>ever sold. Every copy of OS3.9 installed, is unlicenced. Every single one.
>
>Add to this H&P are in violation of the *GPL* license in their distrobution of
>AmigaXL.
>
>H&P are in some deep shiznit.
Plus H&P don't have a licence for AmiTCP that is included in OS3.9, and thus also in AmigaOSXL.
They haven't been sued for any of this. Let's hope they will be.
Amithlon 2.0 delayed : Comment 13 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by José on 29-Jun-2002 19:07 GMT
Shame, really. Pagestream(well, ArtEffect too, and...) is really a good program. It would be one of the key apps to have in OS4.
Amithlon 2.0 delayed : Comment 14 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 29-Jun-2002 19:32 GMT
In reply to Comment 13 (José):
Pagestream comes from Grasshopper
http://www.grasshopperllc.com/
H&P are only local distributors.
Amithlon 2.0 delayed : Comment 15 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by pixie on 29-Jun-2002 20:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 5 (KenH):
U won't buy more products from who!?
Amithlon 2.0 delayed : Comment 16 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by cheesegrate on 30-Jun-2002 01:11 GMT
In reply to Comment 8 (Bill Hoggett):
i look forward to amithlon.. go the aussies! ;)
Amithlon 2.0 delayed : Comment 17 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by Nian on 30-Jun-2002 01:33 GMT
H&P have been shitting people off for years, let us not forget that they helped in a big way to stop decent future development of the PPC amiga. Even now after all these years are we ready to try again.
Honestly they have some dodgy dealings in their dusty closset.
Amithlon 2.0 delayed : Comment 18 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 30-Jun-2002 01:37 GMT
In reply to Comment 11 (Whistleblower):
>Bill Mcewin stated they "never recieved a dime" in licensing for -any- OS3.9 ever sold.
Why should they?
Amithlon 2.0 delayed : Comment 19 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by cheesegrate on 30-Jun-2002 01:40 GMT
In reply to Comment 17 (Nian):
>let us not forget that they helped in a big way to stop decent future >.development of the PPC amiga
Well on one hand they abused their position as confidential phase 5 beta-testers. They were the first to attack phase 5 through fud abotu their software. People forget that when they look at phase 5's harsh response to Warpup.
But they had the licence to create os4 in the last days of Gateamiga, when Amino bought the trademarks they cancelled the agreement with hack & patch. So it is more A% inc that stopped the developemnt of ppc amiga for two years or so till they relized that the Tao tech was not suited for the desktop OS. (AFAIK)
Then a% inc was saying that os4 was only going to be for amiga one not the cyberstorm/blizzard cards, which was really stupid and pissed h&p off as it was cutting off the current market.
So i think the statement is unfair, along with the current morph team and hyperion warp3d they were one of the key groups that make amiga ppc possible. Sure due to all teh fighting it didin't go anywhere.. But still you cannot make sweeping statements like that.
Amithlon 2.0 delayed : Comment 20 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by pixie on 30-Jun-2002 02:53 GMT
In reply to Comment 19 (cheesegrate):
The same practices or worst that everyone is now complaining at Amiga Inc. where in the past done by phase5(their rom scene), at the time no one started no petitions no boycots no nothing... and these very same ppl are the ones supporting morphos, strange isn't it!?
pixie- writing from a paradise called Portugal
Amithlon 2.0 delayed : Comment 21 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by cheesegrate on 30-Jun-2002 04:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (pixie):
What's this then? ;)
Free Choice PPC Petition.
http://www.nutts.demon.co.uk/ppcpet.html
Amithlon 2.0 delayed : Comment 22 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by pixie on 30-Jun-2002 04:51 GMT
In reply to Comment 21 (cheesegrate):
Yeah, now that u mentioned it i do! :) I didn't probalbly didn't remembered it because at the time it never originated threads with so much combustion as these ones now! With so much hostility from people who have choosen a different path...
Amithlon 2.0 delayed : Comment 23 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by anonymous on 30-Jun-2002 05:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 20 (pixie):
"The same practices or worst that everyone is now complaining at Amiga Inc. where in the past done by phase5(their rom scene), at the time no one started no petitions no boycots no nothing... and these very same ppl are the ones supporting morphos, strange isn't it!? "
Notice they failed? Guess we -should- have petitioned. Call it "learning from past mistakes"
Amithlon 2.0 delayed : Comment 24 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by anonymous on 30-Jun-2002 05:18 GMT
In reply to Comment 22 (pixie):
"Yeah, now that u mentioned it i do! :) I didn't probalbly didn't remembered it because at the time it never originated threads with so much combustion as these ones now! With so much hostility from people who have choosen a different path... "
Funny... you brought it up.
Amithlon 2.0 delayed : Comment 25 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by pixie on 30-Jun-2002 05:31 GMT
In reply to Comment 23 (anonymous):
First there's nothing wrong with a dongle, i don't see anyone else petitioning because of a program who uses one.
Second, want a pop motherboard other that the ones that are going to run AOS4, then put money where your mouth is and get a licensing scheme as announced by Amiga Inc. and make your own drivers and hal for it, or PAY Hyperion to do it, easy to do it, isn't it!?
pixe- writing from a paradise called Portugal
P.S- don't be such a coward, not even using a name
Amithlon 2.0 delayed : Comment 26 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by pixie on 30-Jun-2002 05:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 24 (anonymous):
hear me you coward who don't even have a name, i don't usually go to others house insulting them, if I went, I would probably be injuried and I would deserve it at full extent, why don't morphos fanatics don't go to their little home and leave us alone!? Many here have been insulted a lot of times by them, it's obvious that's not US who should leave.
Amithlon 2.0 delayed : Comment 27 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 30-Jun-2002 07:29 GMT
In reply to Comment 25 (pixie):
"First there's nothing wrong with a dongle, i don't see anyone else petitioning because of a program who
uses one. "
Dongles are a PIA at all times. The situation here is that the likely
piracy of OS 4 is a worse evil.
Amithlon 2.0 delayed : Comment 28 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by Maelstorm on 30-Jun-2002 08:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 26 (pixie):
"hear me you coward who don't even have a name, i don't usually go to others house insulting them, if I went, I would probably be injuried and I would deserve it at full extent, why don't morphos fanatics don't go to their little home and leave us alone!? Many here have been insulted a lot of times by them, it's obvious that's not US who should leave. "
Slow down there killer. Nobody is asking anyone to leave, why don't you just settle down and try not to stir things up? By that I mean no more talk about petition or no petition, or Morphos vs. AmigaOS4, ect. There is no fight here, why bother instigating one?
Amithlon 2.0 delayed : Comment 29 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 30-Jun-2002 08:06 GMT
In reply to Comment 27 (Don Cox):
The official story on this makes no sense
1. OS4 will be bundled with A1 boards at source (by Eyetech) so no-one who buys an AmigaOne will have any reason at all to want a "pirate" copy. No need for a dongle on the A1 boards then.
2. OS4 on PPC accelerators doesn't use a dongle, it detects the ROM which is an integral part of the classic Amiga. So piracy levels for the biggest OS4 market are *unaffected* by the dongle.
3. Porting OS4 to other POP hardware is supposed to be so incredibly hard[1] that Hyperion need a signed agreement so that they can get direct co-operation with the manufacturer. Therefore no further ports will exist without Hyperion's direct intervention.
So as you can see, piracy WILL still affect sales of OS4, but the dongle will make no difference at all to piracy. The question then is, why the dongle?
I'm sure the bright ones among you (the ones who said on Monday... "But, there's no chance in hell that AInc will sell 2500 coupons") will figure out the answer. When you do, come back to this thread and tell us what you decided to do about it.
Amithlon 2.0 delayed : Comment 30 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 30-Jun-2002 09:04 GMT
In reply to Comment 29 (Anonymous):
"2. OS4 on PPC accelerators doesn't use a dongle, it detects the ROM which is an integral part of the
classic Amiga. So piracy levels for the biggest OS4 market are
*unaffected* by the dongle.
"
But aren't the current owners of Phase5 PPC cards the most likely
people to buy an AmigaOne?
The number of those cards still in working order must be quite small.
I suppose the current owners could give them to people who might
install a pirate OS4, but the numbers will be negligible.
The dongle idea is to prevent thousands of people from buying Pegasos
cards and installing pirate copies of OS4, in defiance of both BPlan
and Amiga Inc. Another possibility is that somebody might hack a way
to run OS4 on a Mac - again, this would encourage piracy.
This is the snag of using an OS from a software-only company. Apple
and Commodore are/were hardware companies, so have no need for
dongles.
Amithlon 2.0 delayed : Comment 31 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by Bill Hoggett on 30-Jun-2002 10:02 GMT
In reply to Comment 30 (Don Cox):
> But aren't the current owners of Phase5 PPC cards the most likely
> people to buy an AmigaOne?
Yes, but how does this affect the piracy issue, dongle or no dongle?
> The number of those cards still in working order must be quite small.
> I suppose the current owners could give them to people who might
> install a pirate OS4, but the numbers will be negligible.
Probably so, but again this is the only possible pirate market, if what Hyperion say about the differences in POP boards is true.
> The dongle idea is to prevent thousands of people from buying Pegasos
> cards and installing pirate copies of OS4, in defiance of both BPlan
> and Amiga Inc.
Hang on. Hyperion say they need access to Pegasos boards and software at source level to make OS4 run on it, so what chance of piracy is there? Sure, when other boards except the A1 are supported, piracy might come into play, and the dongle anti-piracy ploy would be believable, except for the requirement that it MUST be installed by OEMs and AOS4 MUST be sold only when bundled with the hardware. For anti-pracy selling the AOS4 and ROM bundle would be sufficient.
> Another possibility is that somebody might hack a way to run OS4 on a
> Mac - again, this would encourage piracy.
If they can hack it to run on Macs, what makes you think they can't hack it to remove the protection? Alternatively, what makes you think that someone won't come up with some form of dongle "emulator", something that would fool AmigaOS into thinking it's running on a dongled system?
Again, if OS4 is as hardware dependent as Hyperion say it is, the chances of it running on a Mac are slim, right?
> This is the snag of using an OS from a software-only company. Apple
> and Commodore are/were hardware companies, so have no need for dongles.
Except when talking about emulator users, where piracy of the OS - be it AmigaOS on UAE or MacOS on iFusion - has been rife.
I have to agree with the anonymous poster. The dongle is presented as an anti-piracy device because piracy is an emotive issue and combating it gets most users' full support. In reality the dongle is a competition control device, devised to ensure that there is central control over the amount of competition permitted in the AmigaOS compatible hardware market. At the most basic level it is an anti-competitive device and getting support for that sort of thing from users is much more precarious.
The result is that the PR approach will supress the unpopular anti-competitive aspect and hype up the much less significant but far more popular anti-piracy angle.
I know I'll get flamed, but that's the way I see it. I also want to point out that I'm AGAINST *that* petition. Manufacturers are free to install whatever measures they want, as long as they are doing it legally. It's not our place to try and bully them into changing things to their detriment. If we don't like what we see the right way to protest is with the wallet, not with petitions.
Amithlon 2.0 delayed : Comment 32 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 30-Jun-2002 10:26 GMT
In reply to Comment 31 (Bill Hoggett):
"I know I'll get flamed, but that's the way I see it. I also want to point out that I'm AGAINST *that* petition.
Manufacturers are free to install whatever measures they want, as long as they are doing it legally. It's not
our place to try and bully them into changing things to their detriment. If we don't like what we see the right
way to protest is with the wallet, not with petitions. "
The closed wallet gathers no dongles.
Amithlon 2.0 delayed : Comment 33 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by darklite on 30-Jun-2002 11:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 30 (Don Cox):
>The dongle idea is to prevent thousands of people from buying Pegasos
>cards and installing pirate copies of OS4, in defiance of both BPlan
>and Amiga Inc. Another possibility is that somebody might hack a way
>to run OS4 on a Mac - again, this would encourage piracy.
No dongle ever stopped pirates. Sure it might make it harder for them, but once cracked, what's to stop them?
Amithlon 2.0 delayed : Comment 34 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by amigammc on 30-Jun-2002 12:22 GMT
In reply to Comment 18 (Anonymous):
>Why should they?
Because they own the right. Do you have any idea how copyright laws work?
Amithlon 2.0 delayed : Comment 35 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by 3seas on 30-Jun-2002 12:30 GMT
Notice how this sort of thing can't happen with UAE (GPL) and AROS (APL/MPL)?
(When someone gonna hack on AROS to create the ROM clones to use with UAE?)
Seems to me if someone was serious about using an Amiga oriented OS in a manner
of business, it certainly wouldn't be such that is so uncertain of it future in
legal tangles.
Then again, those who have nothing better to do than get all wrapped up in the
legal tangle issues that have nothing to do with or any control over.....The
more power to you!!!!
Amithlon 2.0 delayed : Comment 36 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by Seehund on 30-Jun-2002 12:38 GMT
In reply to Comment 31 (Bill Hoggett):
@ Bill Hoggett
I agree 100% with all of your very well expressed points.
However...
> If we don't like what we see the right way to protest is with the wallet, not
> with petitions.
Fair point. But personally I'd rather see the removal of that one huge and very valid reason of everyone except some already convinced fanatics using their wallets to vote *against* AmigaOS, and I'd like to see that reason being removed *before* AmigaOS is "up for election" (on the market).
Look at voting in politics. If a candidate is promising hugely impopular stuff like a raise of income taxes to 95% and at the same time reducing the number of public services available for that tax money, then people won't vote for him, no matter if he's got another popular opinion. If he wants to win, he needs to come up with sensible and potentially popular promises *before* the election. If he loses the election because of his impopular politics, he won't have a second chance in the next election when he has turned around and promises lower taxes etc., just like AmigaOS would be forever marked as "that weird OS only being sold with dongled hardware", even if Amiga Inc. came to their senses after learning from their costly mistake and said "Hey, we've changed our minds, come back everybody! Please?".
<propaganda> http://www.petitiononline.com/amigaos </propaganda>
Amithlon 2.0 delayed : Comment 37 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 30-Jun-2002 16:01 GMT
I agree that H&P did alot for the amiga, but please.. amigawriter is the worst crap I have ever seen and used. I wouldnt even touch the program with a pair of shears if it was freeware.
Amithlon 2.0 delayed : Comment 38 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by Don Cox on 30-Jun-2002 17:50 GMT
In reply to Comment 37 (Anonymous):
AmigaWriter is indeed amazingly bad.
Maybe it was programmed by somebody who had never used an Amiga?
Amithlon 2.0 delayed : Comment 39 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 30-Jun-2002 22:10 GMT
"It appears that the unfortunate past association of Amithlon with Haage & Partner has created one more stumbling block on the way tothe release of Amithlon 2.0."
Why not be specific, rather than this unfounded slanderous crap?
H&P have done more for the Amiga, and Amiga community, over the last few years than any other company. Including Bernie's company. All he has really done is to take a GPL emulator and to remove features from it (eg. custom chip emulation). Rather than, for example, develop new versions of AmigaOS, compilers, wordprocessors, paint programs, etc.
Amithlon 2.0 delayed : Comment 40 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by dammy on 30-Jun-2002 23:13 GMT
In reply to Comment 39 (Anonymous):
I know one thing, he's going to be paying royalities to Amino. It appears this hasn't been done by Hack and Patch for quiet some time now.
And as a shocker, thanks Amino for making a deal with Bernie. You will actually see some of my hard earned cash via royalities. Bet they are will be as shocked as I am.
Dammy
Amithlon 2.0 delayed : Comment 41 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by Anonymous on 01-Jul-2002 02:28 GMT
In reply to Comment 40 (dammy):
So since when have Amino done any work on AmigaOS?
They should not sit back and let others do the work and then take the profits.
Amithlon 2.0 delayed : Comment 42 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by dammy on 01-Jul-2002 03:58 GMT
In reply to Comment 41 (Anonymous):
Now that you mentioned it, you got a point. They _might_ own the kickstart, so I'll give them credit for buying that, I suppose. I'll guess we will have to wait to see exactly is in A2 since I really doubt any worbench.Hack&Patch code will be inside of it.
Amithlon 2.0 delayed : Comment 43 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by James Burlington on 01-Jul-2002 04:16 GMT
In reply to Comment 39 (Anonymous):
I second this.
I don't see why people are complaining about this.
Haage and Partner stuck with Amiga in its darkest hours.
All Bernie has done is to take a ready made code and glue it together, he really should be paying to others who own the damn thing.
Why he is trying to throw blame on others?
Someone might be able to solve that one day
Amithlon 2.0 delayed : Comment 44 of 48ANN.lu
Message removed by CK for violation of ANN's posting rules.
Specific reason from moderator: Swearing
Amithlon 2.0 delayed : Comment 45 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by o1i on 01-Jul-2002 13:12 GMT
In reply to Comment 44 (Anonymous):
Now I see the truth. Finally, someone told me in clear and polite words.
Hope you get grown up soon..
Amithlon 2.0 delayed : Comment 46 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by Phill on 01-Jul-2002 22:19 GMT
In reply to Comment 6 (anon):
> who is mr. meier anyway? rip off uae sources, write some jit and pretend to
> be the nice guy in public. does he have some amiga history at least?
AFAIK he worked on the jit for uae.
Amithlon 2.0 delayed : Comment 47 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by Phill on 01-Jul-2002 22:30 GMT
In reply to Comment 44 (Anonymous):
Hey, you've really made your point there.
I'd have never realised without your explanation.
Of course this is sarcasm.
Amithlon 2.0 delayed : Comment 48 of 48ANN.lu
Posted by pixie on 03-Jul-2002 08:42 GMT
In reply to Comment 43 (James Burlington):
"All Bernie has done is to take a ready made code and glue it together, he really should be paying to others who own the damn thing."
He made the Jit part of emulation core, he don't own anyone, he had reached an agreement with other coders, so what's your point!? Amithlon is simply the most recent and innovator piece of software for amiga software, like an accelerator, you still going to wait some time to run applications that fast, so whats your problem guys!? Why do you all have to take others work own!? Why do you ppl talk about what you don’t know!?
in Comment 39:
"All he has really done is to take a GPL emulator and to remove features from it (eg. custom chip emulation). Rather than, for example, develop new versions of AmigaOS, compilers, wordprocessors, paint programs, etc."
He 'just' managed to create a new environment for AmigaOS to run, do that yourself!
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